Downtime Compensation [Merged Threads]

Will there be compensation for the recent “emergency maintenance”

Comments

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Thanks for your feedback Summoners,

It's important to remember a few things here. First, the first and foremost goal of these kinds of compensation are to make up for what you missed during the downtime. We want to make sure that all events affected had a resolution, and that any affected Summoner has the situation rectified for them. Compensation packages are not about "Free stuff". The only events that we can't measure how players were affected specifically were things like Event Quest, and Alliance Wars, which is why there are Energy Refills and 5-Star Shards in the package as well.

Secondly, I see a lot of people bringing up the last compensation package that went out. That one was a different situation where it was not possible for us to address every event that was affected because of the repeated downtimes during the month of March. That package was also for an entire month, and not a single night.

And Lastly, we're seeing some comments on other issues, such as problems with devices. This is completely unrelated, and something that we are still investigating.

@Kabam Miike I think your comments about the compensation comes off very bad. I’ve played this game since the beginning and it was normal to get these types of messages from the collector giving us, as u said “free stuff”. At what point has the mentality of keeping people happy and wanting them to keep playing this game changed? We would get random messages from the collector about the game not being up to his standards. That was awesome, yea it was free stuff. It’s all digital content come on. U guys made a **** ton on the 4th and now u want to say compensation is not about free stuff but to rectify what was not obtainable or what was lost during the downtime. That really doesn’t sit well with me and I’m sure it doesn’t to most of us that game here. I’m just really disappointed with the way things have been handled lately with the public relations. Gosh, this game has changed drastically since it first came out. I enjoy the game but it seems the gamers are all the time mad about the way things are handled. I’m trying to give contructive criticism here so don’t take it as anything but that. Just sharing my feelings hoping it will get back to what it used to be

Raganator

Any chance you could plan for downtime again tonight? I really enjoyed guaranteed time away from the game last Friday. No compensation required.

Mana_Pot

The verdict has been passed. They're probably done responding to the this thread now.

unknown

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FireStorm34

AS I HAVE SAID KABAM ONLY CARE ABOUT THE MONEY THATS WHY THEY STOLEN MY £50 I SPENT FOR GOLDPOOL AND WONT REFUND IT THERE THEIFS AND I HAVE ALLREADY SEAKED LEGAL ACTION TO SORT THIS

dcw_

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

mum_m2

dcw_ wrote: »

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land.

pfm007

mum_m2 wrote: »

dcw_ wrote: »

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land.

I am sorry, but what are you talking about? When did you receive anything to compensate for the downtime?

Werewrym

mum_m2 wrote: »

dcw_ wrote: »

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land.

I'd rather have the $35 in cash form.

teekq

Since you equivalent it of $35 I rather take 35 dollars

unknown

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Raganator

teekq wrote: »

Since you equivalent it of $35 I rather take 35 dollars

Sure, but what is your hourly rate? Think about how many hours of your life Kabam gave you back on Friday/Saturday.

So the calculation would be: $35 - (hourly rate x number of hours you didn't play because of the downtime).

dcw_

mum_m2 wrote: »

dcw_ wrote: »

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land.

People’s time and effort has value to them and as such should be a consideration if they wish to retain happy customers. You are also making the assumption that people did not pay or use over $35 in resources (that’s before u even talk about time). I know what I spent in time and what my time is worth. This will be different for everyone.

This is basic business principles, they are not even returning the resources used that failed to achieve the results there were intended for. That’s not even compensation that’s basic common sense. After all that is returned anything over and above is compensation. I would also suggest you keep your post to the point without the little digs as they only serve to weaken your statements.

Edit they also presented it as what could be achieved which is the minimum that could be considered and they failed to look at what was spent.

unknown

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Nick_Caine_32

"They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land."

Speaking of dream land, in what alternate reality does anything in this weak "compensation" package equal 1000 units? Even together? The refills are less than 100 units worth, gold you can earn for free in event quests, arena as well as five star shards from free arena grinding and rewards from events, and even the special pym rift rewards (which are free when you complete the events this month at least one run) reward more 5 star shards? All of that can be done for free. And easily. Please show your math buddy, cuz you clearly are playing a different game than the rest of us LOL or you are one of those newbie players who buy the bad grab deals and would SPEND 1000 units for this stuff, which is what I think you meant. Cuz yeah...no.

Clearly, it seems this package isn't going over well with the player base, I wonder if Kabam is reading still or just decided it was fixed/working as intended.

teekq

I’m saying I rather take $35 over that bs compensation they came up with!

Neroa65

I'm honestly surprised we're still talking about this. Let's all just pat ourselves on the back. We tried right? We tried to reason with them, thinking they'd put themselves is our shoes but aye that didn't work. I wonder why it took them all week to "discuss" this meager compensation. What the hell is a bunch of shards and revives worth? It's alright though. There's no point in commenting again once you realize they don't really care. At the end of the day, it's their game and they're not forcing us to play I guess, so let's all drop it and take what we got. That's all I've got to say tbh.

TheKiryu

@Kabam Miike hope you are forwarding the feedback from here.

I honestly don’t understand how yall failed to see this coming, or u did and simply embracing in now , with you on damage control yet again.

P.s. - not having a dig at you but your superiors, I think u have one of the most demanding jobs in the world thanks to Kabam policies lol

teekq

Well it’s a business ofcouse they don’t care about the players! It’s only right that players do the same and stop spending

dcw_

mum_m2 wrote: »

dcw_ wrote: »

mum_m2 wrote: »

dcw_ wrote: »

I struggle to understand the business logic behind Kabam’s approach. There will come a point when the people that have been so vocal will go silent and start showing there displeasure with their wallets instead of just words.

Doing bare minimum compensation calculations then attempting to justify them is a very poor business and customer relations decision. If you already feel the need to justify your compensation packages then you have most likely already realized before even presenting them that the customers are not going to be happy with it. Look at what you stand to lose here, it is a lot more then what the digital goods are worth.

What is the thought process that leads you to moving forward with a decision that you know will be received badly? Do you think that ppl will stop playing or not spend as much on the game if you give them compensation they will be happy with? I would argue that you would be more likely to see spending go up from creating happy customers as well as all the time and resources the customer would have to spend ranking up a new champion (if received from compensation in some way ie. shards as an example).

As a business you are far better off just making a hard fast decision without the explanation. You see your explanations and calculations fail to take everything into consideration. A few major things you neglected to discuss are things like units, resources, time and energy spent. These are major concerns to your customers and as such should be a major concern to you. Instead you leave the customers believing that none of this mattered too you (or it would have been considered).

This leaves a very bad taste in a lot of your customers mouths and I would wager to say you will end up paying for it in the long run. Whoever is making these decisions should strongly consider changing their mind set towards customer relations.

They've given us the equivalent of at least 1,000 units worth of stuff here. That's about more than $35. I fail to recognize your point as this being bare minimum. It sounds to me that you have nothing to complain about in your first world problem peter pan dream land.

People’s time and effort has value to them and as such should be a consideration if they wish to retain happy customers. You are also making the assumption that people did not pay or use over $35 in resources (that’s before u even talk about time). I know what I spent in time and what my time is worth. This will be different for everyone.

This is basic business principles, they are not even returning the resources used that failed to achieve the results there were intended for. That’s not even compensation that’s basic common sense. After all that is returned anything over and above is compensation. I would also suggest you keep your post to the point without the little digs as they only serve to weaken your statements.

I happen to think it vastly increased the value of the statement Peter Pan. I mean seriously go outside and find a cow to tip or something. Want to be helpful? then go help an old woman cross the street

I can’t force you to be civil or speak in an intelligent manner. I will say there is little use talking or responding to posts of your caliber.

unknown

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ShadowReptile

Well i looked into it a Kabam is not accredited by the Better Business Bureu. No surprise there. BBB must determine that the business meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints.

Joey0480

With 360 mil a year revenue you would think they could do better....

CFree

ShadowReptile wrote: »

Well i looked into it a Kabam is not accredited by the Better Business Bureu. No surprise there. BBB must determine that the business meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints.

Lol

NikoBravo

What a turd of a compensation package. I have to say, this is getting worse. You can’t keep your fan base happy by doing this. The fact that it took over a week to come up with that is shameful.

The truth is, this was your plan all along, but didn’t want to piss us off prior to your 4th of July deals because people would boycott you once again and we know you felt that last one.

You are all walking a diminishing fine line, and probably will feel it again.

Give me my free shards so I can blow them on a reduced chance at a decent champ.

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

It's important to remember a few things here. First, the first and foremost goal of these kinds of compensation are to make up for what you missed during the downtime. We want to make sure that all events affected had a resolution, and that any affected Summoner has the situation rectified for them. Compensation packages are not about "Free stuff". The only events that we can't measure how players were affected specifically were things like Event Quest, and Alliance Wars, which is why there are Energy Refills and 5-Star Shards in the package as well.

I understand and I agree up to a point. The point to compensation is to compensate: to try to counteract the ill effects of the downtime. I can agree that in theory the correct thing to do is to try to figure out what the potential damage was, and rectify that.

However, there's two things I think Kabam should consider. First, I think the approach to compensation is doing a subtly but significantly wrong thing. Take the arena events. Kabam's solution to those is to rerun them, which makes sense on the surface. However, that addresses the opportunity cost of losing the opportunity for the highest rewards in those arenas, but doesn't address the question of player effort. Consider this thought experiment. I'm grinding in an arena and I'm four hours of grinding into it when it malfunctions. So Kabam offers to rerun it. So I run it again, and I get four hours of grinding into it when it malfunctions again. So Kabam offers to run it again, and again, and again. In each case Kabam's position seems to be that this adequately addresses the issue of me not being able to grind that arena to completion, but those restarts are not compensating me for the fact that I'm putting in a ton of effort into the arena and getting little back for it (in many arenas past the last milestone you are primarily grinding for either the top reward or a high percentage ranked reward, and there's no more rewards for continued grinding besides that). Basically, Kabam is giving players the opportunity to expend more effort for a particular reward, but not accounting for the effort already put into the events. Players aren't actually being fully compensated for the damage due to the downtime, even in theory.

The second thing to consider is even if there existed a way to magically make everyone whole in absolutely perfect fashion, it brings up the question of whether even that is enough. Again, consider a thought experiment. The game goes down for eight hours. Somehow, you wave a magic wand and reset everything so that everyone gets both their effort compensated for and the lost opportunities recreated in a perfect fashion for everyone. To say that this alone is the target of compensation is in effect saying that so long as this magic wand exists, downtime is harmless. The downtime happens, everyone is compensated, and since compensation precisely accounts for lost player time and lost player opportunities, there was no actual harm.

I think this is wrong. I think even in a perfect world where compensation perfectly achieves your stated goal of "making up for what you missed" during the downtime, the downtime still causes subjective harm. Kabam should be trying not just to compensate players for material losses, but also for the intangible losses due to inconvenience and gameplay disruption.

TL;DR: Kabam is trying to give players the opportunity to make up for downtime losses. But Kabam isn't in every case trying to directly compensate players for lost effort, disrupted gameplay, or general inconvenience. That means their target errs on the low side of compensation, and Kabam should consider making a reasonable effort gesture towards addressing those intangibles. And I don't count the energy refills and 5* shards, because Kabam explicitly stated those were meant to address other game modes with immeasurable impact. So they cannot also address the issues with the explicitly mentioned game modes in the announcement I reference above.

DJRipster

Kdog76 wrote: »

The least they could have done here is release a 2-star wasp... Ant-Man has been around since the first movie... Why this ?

Lowecomotive

This proposed compensation is unsatisfactory.
We dropped nearly 1000 places in AQ as we couldn't finish the maps on day 1.
This didn't just mean we missed out on our map 5 crystals. We also took a massive prestige hit over the remaining days.
We missed at least 2 map 6 crystals plus glory. Plus whatever rank rewards we miss.

While Kabam normally does a decent job of providing compensation, I feel this time you have really missed the mark.

I'm not mad I'm just disappointed.

Ccannon5

So a little disappointed by the package but regardless when can we poor peasants expect to receive the scraps?

DNA3000

Lowecomotive wrote: »

This proposed compensation is unsatisfactory.
We dropped nearly 1000 places in AQ as we couldn't finish the maps on day 1.
This didn't just mean we missed out on our map 5 crystals. We also took a massive prestige hit over the remaining days.
We missed at least 2 map 6 crystals plus glory. Plus whatever rank rewards we miss.

My suspicion is that alliance were hit significantly by the downtime events during that week. Although we also experienced downtime, our alliance was able to compensate for that by playing more aggressively and taking advantage of reduced timers, so we ended the week actually slightly higher in points. However, we ended up over four hundred rating places higher, which seemed disproportionately high for our point total to me. My very rough guess is that we placed around three hundred places higher than we would have on a non-downtime week, which suggests many alliances in the 1-1500 expert tier range placed significantly lower than they normally do.

It is only one data point and it involves mostly judgment on my part, but I don't think it is an insignificant data point.