OMG let me emphasize this again, because apparently my post wasn't clear enough. The issue isn't that your specific arguments aren't being heard, or they're falling "on deaf ears." The issue is that they are just bad arguments with faulty logic. You continue to repeat the same talking points trotted out by Kabam as though it's somehow going to either make more sense the more you respond or become factually accurate because it would somehow hurt your specific alliance.
"Not everyone is available at the same time of day, and not everyone can log on every 2.5 hours. Which leaves what? People waiting on them and pushing them to move because the Ally wants to finish the Map."
REDUCED TIMERS DOESN'T CHANGE THIS. If your alliance is having this problem it already existed. This is the part you seem to not understand and it's honestly baffling to me that someone could repeat this out loud and not understand there is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. If someone in your alliance is asleep they are going to be asleep whether the timers are long or short. When said member wakes up, they would have 5 energy. They log on, burn 5 energy. Then they go about their day. The EXACT SAME TIME THEY LOG ON LATER, no matter the timer length, DOES NOT CHANGE. The difference this time, is that when they jump on THEY HAVE MORE ENERGY.
Reduced timers doesn't suddenly require everyone to log on every 2.5 hours instead of the normal times they were able to get into the game. What about this is so hard for you to comprehend? AND IN FACT if your alliance was already HAVING issues with people waiting on others, it's not because of the timers but because of that person's availability, which then having shorter timers would HELP them!!! They would hop on, let's say after work, after moving during their afternoon break, but instead of having 3 energy to move they would freaking have ALL FIVE TO MOVE.
The only possible downside to this scenario is that if someone was truly not available for a huge chunk of the map then yes, you are correct, they wouldn't get to play much, but if that's the case they shouldn't be in a group running map 5 or 6 which require someone to log on more than that small window anyway, and if the alliance doesn't MIND having someone there who can't log on that much, but contributes elsewhere, then guess what? Everyone benefits because no matter what you all completed the map and got the rewards. Again, no one at this point is playing Contest of Champions because of the exciting daily grind of the same map over and over 5 days in a row for necessary resources. Ask anyone in a serious AQ driven alliance if anything you are arguing about incessantly is accurate and they would laugh, because EVERYTHING I just wrote is the actual logical and factual way this specific game mode works. I wonder, Grounded, what map do you run in your group? Are you able to understand, comprehensively, that those issues you presented as reasons to not use shorter timers are not in fact going to change in your examples whether the timers are altered or not? Does that make sense?
This is why I laugh when i see the official excuse given by a moderator and then parroted by someone like this. It's clear that for most game content there is no QA or mod actually playing it, and I could list numerous examples of this, but this is a clear indicator of someone who repeats a given talking point (like in politics) when others have actually experienced it and KNOW in every way possible it's false. Stop repeating it. It's silly and my breakdown above pokes giant holes in the main theory of your argument. The time changes nothing, except gives groups flexibility and lets them finish earlier to unlock their champs. It's not punishment, it's not suddenly going to make groups start screaming at each other to move quicker, it literally does the opposite. Please don't insult our intelligence with this any longer.
If we had 30 minutes timers for a few weeks in a row, people would adjust and the "stress" of feeling like you're wasting energy would dissipate.
This week we had a player ghost us in our ally (we run Map 5x5). Normally that would torpedo at least 1 day of AQ, possibly 2 depending on how fast you can find a replacement. Due to the prestige system that ripples all the way to end milestones and rank rewards. 29 people punished because 1 person had a real life issue come up.
BUT, with the 30 minute timers we were easily able to finish with 9 people and then find a replacement on our time. Removing the necessity to log on every couple of hours every day of AQ would be tremendous for the player base.
Majority, as in on the Forum?
It's really not a matter of a vote. If there are issues that negatively impact Players, you can't really vote them out based on a majority. Those issues are still there.
I’m sure you have all access to the full game analytics and know better than us as is the typical case in your forum comments, regardless of the thread, topic or situation.
I’m using common sense based on real world experience and the feedback of the majority who post in this themed thread every time it pops up.
You sir, are basing yours on similar information, representing the smaller portion of your ally and those who would, for whatever reason, drag out a game mode for an entire day, instead of doing things in the real world.
Please consider changing your forum name because neither quality suits your many posts very accurately.
I would love to see the reduced timer in every AQ. For those that can finish faster, kudos to them for coordinating that. For those that gives them more flexibility in accomplishing AQ completion in a more relaxed, less restricted manner, excellent.
The whole point of this thread is that 30 minute timers can be helpful to balance schedules and take life in the opposite scenarios you identify with.
Any issues you or your ally has with 30m timers is self inflicted and could be managed internally by asking to leave one node for the guy who joins late, or asking that section 3 not be started until all participants have joined, or asking everyone to wait 1 hour between moves, or starting AQ later to accommodate the late player since time can be managed with faster gameplay. These are just some examples of how you can do more with 30m and still be successful with little effort and there are more.
On the flip side, many allies have these issues already with 1 hour timers and don’t win as a result because nodes or the boss are left when time runs out. There is nothing they can do to manage this because schedules simply don’t accommodate the number of moves available. That number is doubled with 30m timers and provides a lot more flexibility.
It’s not easier for me. I just like getting done and then doing other stuff. Been playing with 1 hour timers like everyone else other than when we are blessed with 30m timers.
Asking to leave one node for your late guy is just good teamwork so everyone benefits. Not a lot to manage there other than common courtesy for your teammate.
When did 30m timers make it easier? Did they reduce the amount of nodes, defender PI, or something else too? It just makes it potentially faster to complete. How you use that time is up to you and your ally mates.
We have a guy who cannot log in til midnight my time ever.
With half hour timers he doesnt do aq unless we leave him a fight in section 3otherwise he wont get rewards.
Seem fair and balanced?
It is no more fair or less fair than one hour timers sometimes causing alliances to fail to complete simply because their timezones interact in a way that causes them to fall slightly short of completing the map.
But, to be honest, while I like 30 minute timers I don't think Kabam would ever institute them so its not worth fighting to get. The compromise position I now have is that energy *capacity* should be increased from five hours to nine hours. This would make coordination easier because less synchronized alliances would lose less energy when they were unsynchronized, but as players earn energy just as fast it doesn't allow alliances to complete AQ maps significantly faster than they would otherwise. It simply eliminates the penalty associated with logging in less often or less in sync, which supposedly nearly everyone claims is the goal.
Seriously, you can honestly say that 30m timers is more negative to your entire ally , as a whole, than 1 hour timers? Because having more opportunity to complete faster is a bad thing if they everchanged it and you’d fight to keep it 1 hour if they did?
That’s it, nothing about skill, or planning, or anything else.
And if it does, so be it.
But, if you had the ability to do all your real world work in 4 hours, get it done to the same level of quality as you do now in 8 hours, but get paid the same and have 4 more hours of your own time, you wouldn’t take that deal cause it would be easier than working the entire day?
The issue is people refuse to accept that it's not beneficial for everyone, and it doesn't work as a permanent installment.
No, you’re getting this wrong again, it’s not that people are REFUSING to understand any detrimental aspects, it’s that they did think them through and read the (very) few repeated instances over and over, and have found them to be both insignificant when weighed with the positives as well as not squaring up with reality when the timers are reduced. Many of us have played this game for longer than you, and run a higher map (im assuming this as you refuse to answer any of my questions earlier) so we have many times to compare the regular timers to shortened weeks. We have seen the difference ourselves and have friends in higher alliances who have seen them as well.
It is your OPINION that shorter timers do not work as a permanent installment, because Kabam Miike told us that one time and you continue to repeat it, but as I laid out in detail above, it’s not based in any actual logical reasoning and every example you provided is easily debunked by anyone who has dealt with running an alliance doing a higher AQ map. And to you and the other gentleman commenting and repeating the talking point, if the worry by kabam was that “everyone isn’t able to play on the map” then the lower maps and even map 5 would be laid out with 10 paths to complete. They aren’t, and many people in multiple alliances are either designated as backup in case someone isn’t able to log in for their designated path or someone gets stuck. Someone might join and because of the schedule or real life, not get to do any fights or only a few. Some get to do a lot of them. All of that has been true for this game mode since it’s inception, and has always been up to the alliance to manage and either change or replace those players for their availability. The difference with shorter timers is that it would give more flexibility and allow some to catch up when bottlenecked in a game mode that requires five days in a row of continued activity, for basic required resources in the game. Reducing timers is absolutely sustainable as is most every other change we have seen in this game over 3 years now, and I will say it again: if kabam came out tomorrow announcing this was permanent, you would 100% be on board and towing the company line, like you do for literally every single other announcement and change on their part. I have SEEN you do it on countless threads and announcements, we all have - so would this be any different? The game doesn’t implode when they do this. In fact, last year and previously when we were tracking our placement in expert tier, the cutoffs were actually HIGHER for the weeks everyone had 30 minute timers because more groups were able to complete the maps in full, which made them actually competitive again and was some actual concrete evidence that as a whole more groups were benefiting from the reduction.
Your argument isn’t based in any concrete facts or evidence beyond just repeating what you read one time, over and over and over. I dont expect any specific answers to these points as you clearly showed from your first response. Would still love to know what maps you run all week, what tier you were in for last few years and what experience in game you have to be able to so concretely answer this question and double down on the Kabam answer. Cuz I’m very interested if it lines up with my theory.
It's a never ending conversation because there's always one extremely persistent player on a forum like this holding the Kabam line and trying to make some logical argument that it somehow benefits everyone for them to stay an hour long. It's insanity. One, if the main crux of your argument is "it was designed that way" and then in every other thread you're apologizing for kabam changing every other part of the game and saying it's great for the "meta" and innovative, you come off as a hypocrite. Alliance war in its first inception was designed with hour timers, and how many times has it changed since then? That's my first issue with the apologists here - you have concentrated so much on this one line and keep repeating it over and over, because you saw Miike or another mod give the excuse a long time ago, you sound like a broken record. Alliance quest was designed and started in a much different time in this game than it currently exists in. When I started this game over 3 years ago you were NOWHERE near the ability to build a roster like you are now when you start, with the beginner bracket and arena grinding. It took me half a year to get my first four star champ, and my significant other just started playing a month ago and has 7 of them, and he hasn't been able to play that much or grind like he wanted. EVERY ASPECT of this game has evolved and changed from it's original purpose and starting meta, but we got two people and some mods who can't seem to wrap their head around something like this being open to change? For what, reasons? Nah, this seems to be the main one I see in defense of it:
Something something something it punishes players, people who have alliances spread around the world won't be able to play or can't be as active as others when it starts, and it puts pressure on everyone to finish, or something. Did I get it right? THIS IS CRAZY PEOPLE THINKING. I mean, I try to put myself in the shoes of someone saying this and thinking this way, and it hurts my brain trying to understand the leap of logic required to tow this line they are feeding us. First of all, it doesn't punish anyone. Having a required five day monotonous grind of a game mode in order to rank up your champs is arguably more punishing than timers for said game mode. Let's not pretend anyone who runs map 5 or 6 all season in expert bracket is logging on going "Gosh, I can't wait to play alliance quest and fight those Sentinels again! Oh boy, I can't wait to get on and see if someone removed a linked node just so I can move up and wait some more, or maybe they didn't and I'll still be waiting, or maybe they cleared it up my hour timer isn't recharged yet so I can wait some more!" NO, you log on to play war or quests or arena. Give me a break. This game mode has been outdated and boring for ages now, that's why they made the hasty changes and got the blowback they did without changing the rewards earlier this season. The only reason people do AQ is for the resources, period. It's necessity only, so this **** about "shorter timers hurting people" already starts out on shaky logical ground anyway.
No matter if you have hour timers or 30 minute timers, if you are spread around the world your situation doesn't really change at all. If alliance quest map 5 launches mid afternoon here in the states and you live halfway around the world and wouldn't log on until 1 in the morning, you will have the exact same amount of energy built up to burn off, no matter what the timers are. The only difference is those who are in the time zone when it launches would be able to clear section one and possibly into 2 faster. If you think that is a problem because those who were sleeping "didn't get to play in that section" then I would refer you back to my initial point - no one does this because it's fun or they are begging to get a few fights in on one path in section one. When I log in for my alliance who runs map 5 all week and has done so all AQ season, I don't get upset if they had someone jump my path and clear it and they are ready to fight boss #1. I am happy because I'm not a crazy person, and I will do my part in section 2 and 3, or I'll help with the mini boss and get us into the next section. If your alliance is built where people ARE getting mad because they didn't get to fight, I'm gonna guess you aren't running map 5 or 6 and you're probably a new player. It's all about getting the map done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. The ONLY DIFFERENCE NOW is when someone logs on and has a chunk of time available to play the game, THEY CAN MOVE QUICKER IN SAID TIME FRAME BECAUSE THE TIMER REFRESHES FASTER!!! How many times do I have to repeat this FACT before it sinks in that it's literally the whole point? This helps everyone in the group. It takes stress off and gives everyone more flexibility and allows you to finish the map faster, releasing your top champs (esp if you're running 5 or 6) to be free for use in other more enjoyable content in the game like the event quests every month. That is it. It doesn't punish anyone, it doesn't hurt anyone, and if you have an alliance where people are yelling at you to move, they would be doing so WHETHER YOU HAD 30 MIN OR HOUR LONG TIMERS ANYWAY. We have LESS stress when we have these timers. EVERY SINGLE TIME. We've run map 5 for over 2 years now. Every single time the timers get reduced, we finish at the same pace or usually quicker than every other week.
Anyone doing mental and verbal gymnastics on here in order to spread the Kabam talking points on timers is kidding themselves. And as I've only seen two people TOTAL in every thread when this happens who are arguing in favor of keeping them an hour, I'm gonna agree with the previous comments that it IS A MAJORITY of the player base who would be in favor of them. Final point: If Kabam came out tomorrow and said "ok guys, we're changing this permanently, it's 30 min timers for AQ from now on!" those EXACT SAME PEOPLE arguing against them would instantly change their tune and say exactly what they say on every other Kabam edict: "Ok guys, this is their decision, let's get on board and adapt, the game and meta are constantly changing!"
I would bet you $1000000 this would be their exact post on it.
Because it's what they say for every other change in the game Kabam has made, and they argue for it fervently. "They obviously have their reasons for doing so, we just have to get on board, let's trust them"
Everyone would adapt and be absolutely fine with this change. Kabam, please do it. It would be a major quality of life change and sign you were seeing this game mode for what it is, and what we have been telling you for years now. Don't let two extremely loud people's voices drown out the rest who are loving this change every time it happens.
Exactly. Thank you for this well thought out and well written post. This outlines exactly what the majority of the community is thinking.
If you asked the Forum if a free 6* Domino would be swell, I have no doubt the feedback would be close to 100%. That doesn't mean it's feasible.
What? You think the majority would want everyone to have a 6* Domino? You’re out of your mind. Also you say the fact that they haven’t changed the timers proves they are necessary? Think about that argument and I bet you’ll see why it’s invalid.
Hey you’re entitled to your opinion like the rest of us. I can live with that.
Personally, the time isn’t the challenge. It’s having to come back to a fight during work, or on a date, or whatever... it’s silly that grown adults have to take a “poop break” at work to get in a fight or two to ensure the ally can win AQ at times. That’s not really fun.
Just my opinion though and why so many of us like 30m timers since it still allows you to enjoy the game withiut looking like an addict who has to sneak off every couple of hours.
A game shouldn’t take up your entire day and aspects of your life to be “challenging”. I’ve logged in daily for a year and a half so I know how it works, but I feel relieved with the shorter timers and it has breathed a little new enthusiasm into the game for me.
Comments
"Not everyone is available at the same time of day, and not everyone can log on every 2.5 hours. Which leaves what? People waiting on them and pushing them to move because the Ally wants to finish the Map."
REDUCED TIMERS DOESN'T CHANGE THIS. If your alliance is having this problem it already existed. This is the part you seem to not understand and it's honestly baffling to me that someone could repeat this out loud and not understand there is NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. If someone in your alliance is asleep they are going to be asleep whether the timers are long or short. When said member wakes up, they would have 5 energy. They log on, burn 5 energy. Then they go about their day. The EXACT SAME TIME THEY LOG ON LATER, no matter the timer length, DOES NOT CHANGE. The difference this time, is that when they jump on THEY HAVE MORE ENERGY.
Reduced timers doesn't suddenly require everyone to log on every 2.5 hours instead of the normal times they were able to get into the game. What about this is so hard for you to comprehend? AND IN FACT if your alliance was already HAVING issues with people waiting on others, it's not because of the timers but because of that person's availability, which then having shorter timers would HELP them!!! They would hop on, let's say after work, after moving during their afternoon break, but instead of having 3 energy to move they would freaking have ALL FIVE TO MOVE.
The only possible downside to this scenario is that if someone was truly not available for a huge chunk of the map then yes, you are correct, they wouldn't get to play much, but if that's the case they shouldn't be in a group running map 5 or 6 which require someone to log on more than that small window anyway, and if the alliance doesn't MIND having someone there who can't log on that much, but contributes elsewhere, then guess what? Everyone benefits because no matter what you all completed the map and got the rewards. Again, no one at this point is playing Contest of Champions because of the exciting daily grind of the same map over and over 5 days in a row for necessary resources. Ask anyone in a serious AQ driven alliance if anything you are arguing about incessantly is accurate and they would laugh, because EVERYTHING I just wrote is the actual logical and factual way this specific game mode works. I wonder, Grounded, what map do you run in your group? Are you able to understand, comprehensively, that those issues you presented as reasons to not use shorter timers are not in fact going to change in your examples whether the timers are altered or not? Does that make sense?
This is why I laugh when i see the official excuse given by a moderator and then parroted by someone like this. It's clear that for most game content there is no QA or mod actually playing it, and I could list numerous examples of this, but this is a clear indicator of someone who repeats a given talking point (like in politics) when others have actually experienced it and KNOW in every way possible it's false. Stop repeating it. It's silly and my breakdown above pokes giant holes in the main theory of your argument. The time changes nothing, except gives groups flexibility and lets them finish earlier to unlock their champs. It's not punishment, it's not suddenly going to make groups start screaming at each other to move quicker, it literally does the opposite. Please don't insult our intelligence with this any longer.
This week we had a player ghost us in our ally (we run Map 5x5). Normally that would torpedo at least 1 day of AQ, possibly 2 depending on how fast you can find a replacement. Due to the prestige system that ripples all the way to end milestones and rank rewards. 29 people punished because 1 person had a real life issue come up.
BUT, with the 30 minute timers we were easily able to finish with 9 people and then find a replacement on our time. Removing the necessity to log on every couple of hours every day of AQ would be tremendous for the player base.
@GroundedWisdom that’s not the issue. It’s more beneficial for the majority. 30m timers are beneficial for the majority. One more time, the majority.
Probably didn’t make a dent though.
It's really not a matter of a vote. If there are issues that negatively impact Players, you can't really vote them out based on a majority. Those issues are still there.
I’m using common sense based on real world experience and the feedback of the majority who post in this themed thread every time it pops up.
You sir, are basing yours on similar information, representing the smaller portion of your ally and those who would, for whatever reason, drag out a game mode for an entire day, instead of doing things in the real world.
Please consider changing your forum name because neither quality suits your many posts very accurately.
@GroundedWisdom and @Dropfaith, someone is always going to be impacted one way or the other.
The whole point of this thread is that 30 minute timers can be helpful to balance schedules and take life in the opposite scenarios you identify with.
Any issues you or your ally has with 30m timers is self inflicted and could be managed internally by asking to leave one node for the guy who joins late, or asking that section 3 not be started until all participants have joined, or asking everyone to wait 1 hour between moves, or starting AQ later to accommodate the late player since time can be managed with faster gameplay. These are just some examples of how you can do more with 30m and still be successful with little effort and there are more.
On the flip side, many allies have these issues already with 1 hour timers and don’t win as a result because nodes or the boss are left when time runs out. There is nothing they can do to manage this because schedules simply don’t accommodate the number of moves available. That number is doubled with 30m timers and provides a lot more flexibility.
Asking to leave one node for your late guy is just good teamwork so everyone benefits. Not a lot to manage there other than common courtesy for your teammate.
It is no more fair or less fair than one hour timers sometimes causing alliances to fail to complete simply because their timezones interact in a way that causes them to fall slightly short of completing the map.
But, to be honest, while I like 30 minute timers I don't think Kabam would ever institute them so its not worth fighting to get. The compromise position I now have is that energy *capacity* should be increased from five hours to nine hours. This would make coordination easier because less synchronized alliances would lose less energy when they were unsynchronized, but as players earn energy just as fast it doesn't allow alliances to complete AQ maps significantly faster than they would otherwise. It simply eliminates the penalty associated with logging in less often or less in sync, which supposedly nearly everyone claims is the goal.
Seriously, you can honestly say that 30m timers is more negative to your entire ally , as a whole, than 1 hour timers? Because having more opportunity to complete faster is a bad thing if they everchanged it and you’d fight to keep it 1 hour if they did?
That’s it, nothing about skill, or planning, or anything else.
And if it does, so be it.
But, if you had the ability to do all your real world work in 4 hours, get it done to the same level of quality as you do now in 8 hours, but get paid the same and have 4 more hours of your own time, you wouldn’t take that deal cause it would be easier than working the entire day?
No, you’re getting this wrong again, it’s not that people are REFUSING to understand any detrimental aspects, it’s that they did think them through and read the (very) few repeated instances over and over, and have found them to be both insignificant when weighed with the positives as well as not squaring up with reality when the timers are reduced. Many of us have played this game for longer than you, and run a higher map (im assuming this as you refuse to answer any of my questions earlier) so we have many times to compare the regular timers to shortened weeks. We have seen the difference ourselves and have friends in higher alliances who have seen them as well.
It is your OPINION that shorter timers do not work as a permanent installment, because Kabam Miike told us that one time and you continue to repeat it, but as I laid out in detail above, it’s not based in any actual logical reasoning and every example you provided is easily debunked by anyone who has dealt with running an alliance doing a higher AQ map. And to you and the other gentleman commenting and repeating the talking point, if the worry by kabam was that “everyone isn’t able to play on the map” then the lower maps and even map 5 would be laid out with 10 paths to complete. They aren’t, and many people in multiple alliances are either designated as backup in case someone isn’t able to log in for their designated path or someone gets stuck. Someone might join and because of the schedule or real life, not get to do any fights or only a few. Some get to do a lot of them. All of that has been true for this game mode since it’s inception, and has always been up to the alliance to manage and either change or replace those players for their availability. The difference with shorter timers is that it would give more flexibility and allow some to catch up when bottlenecked in a game mode that requires five days in a row of continued activity, for basic required resources in the game. Reducing timers is absolutely sustainable as is most every other change we have seen in this game over 3 years now, and I will say it again: if kabam came out tomorrow announcing this was permanent, you would 100% be on board and towing the company line, like you do for literally every single other announcement and change on their part. I have SEEN you do it on countless threads and announcements, we all have - so would this be any different? The game doesn’t implode when they do this. In fact, last year and previously when we were tracking our placement in expert tier, the cutoffs were actually HIGHER for the weeks everyone had 30 minute timers because more groups were able to complete the maps in full, which made them actually competitive again and was some actual concrete evidence that as a whole more groups were benefiting from the reduction.
Your argument isn’t based in any concrete facts or evidence beyond just repeating what you read one time, over and over and over. I dont expect any specific answers to these points as you clearly showed from your first response. Would still love to know what maps you run all week, what tier you were in for last few years and what experience in game you have to be able to so concretely answer this question and double down on the Kabam answer. Cuz I’m very interested if it lines up with my theory.
Exactly. Thank you for this well thought out and well written post. This outlines exactly what the majority of the community is thinking.
What? You think the majority would want everyone to have a 6* Domino? You’re out of your mind. Also you say the fact that they haven’t changed the timers proves they are necessary? Think about that argument and I bet you’ll see why it’s invalid.
Personally, the time isn’t the challenge. It’s having to come back to a fight during work, or on a date, or whatever... it’s silly that grown adults have to take a “poop break” at work to get in a fight or two to ensure the ally can win AQ at times. That’s not really fun.
Just my opinion though and why so many of us like 30m timers since it still allows you to enjoy the game withiut looking like an addict who has to sneak off every couple of hours.
A game shouldn’t take up your entire day and aspects of your life to be “challenging”. I’ve logged in daily for a year and a half so I know how it works, but I feel relieved with the shorter timers and it has breathed a little new enthusiasm into the game for me.