Community needs to do better

It's only been a few days since the EQ has started, and so many people are already talking about nerf this, moneygrab that, quitting the game, how unfair Adaptoid and Domino and Heimdall are, etc etc.

What happened to accepting and rising to a challenge? So many posts saying that these characters are cheap and unbeatable, yet there's so many posts and vids of people beating them easily, even with a 2 star Ronan!! The worst champ to fight in this entire game is hands-down 5.4 Ultron, and even then, there's ways to beat him.

The community needs to stop complaining, calling for nerfs, and calling things cheap or broken or unbeatable when you clearly haven't tried all options or practiced fighting that particular enemy. Whining and quitting never gets you anywhere. Let's do better.

Comments

Nabilety

Agreed.

V1PER1987

No hands down the worst champ to fight is The Collector. But I agree that people whine about nerfs too much.

Lysiszero

I don't think nerfs are needed. Everyone jumps into new content then completely forgets that for a lot of people the game is not running like it should. So they come back here or YouTube or Facebook or Reddit or other sites complaining how hard things are. If there was ever a proper game fix for the issues I'm sure many of these posts about nerfs would go away.

ZzyzxGuy

That's because these kids didn't grow up on Nintendo.

They would go into a rage coma if they ever played Ninja Gaiden, Abadox, Silver Surfer, etc.

Kil63

ZzyzxGuy wrote: »

That's because these kids didn't grow up on Nintendo.

They would go into a rage coma if they ever played Ninja Gaiden, Abadox, Silver Surfer, etc.

@ZzyzxGuy lol or Metroid

GroundedWisdom

People are part of the community. When a number of people express their concern about something, there's a reason for that. It's not fair to make a Blanket Statement that people need to get better. I'm sure in some cases, people aren't challenging themsleves, but that's not a statement for everyone. When you have a significant number of people saying the same thing, they're not all just whining. Brushing people off like that happens entirely too much on here.

Nabilety

Generally, I think people got so comfortable complaining about in-game content that it has become a bad habit.
In this case, I think it's because most people find it out of the ordinary that they can't use their go-to top champions in the monthly Event Quest. However, I've seen some people asking for guidance on certain fights, such as the Yellow Jacket in last month's Event Quest, instead of complaining. I got to give kudos to those folks, because they actually want to better their understanding of the game, by asking on the forum. Either way, I like fights like the Hydra Adaptoid, cause you'll get to understand the benefit of rarely used champions such as Ronan.
If I remember correctly, people also complained about the Infinity War Event Quest back in April, because they felt the fight was too unusually tough - which again, I think is something they have to get used to.
Of course, we shouldn't neglect existing issues, such as the overheating/crashing (still happening, yes), unbalanced champions, and the lack of communication between the devs and the community.

DOKTOROKTOPUS

too much kids that want easy and fast rewards

GroundedWisdom

That's the problem. Feedback on how challenging content is, is also a part of the process. If one or two people had an issue with it, that might be acute cases of people not applying themselves. The most recent Poll showed 21% of people who had an issue. That's not something that can be categorized as people who just don't want a challenge. People need to be heard when they believe something is too much, just as much as people who believe things are too easy. It's all a part of the community. Otherwise it becomes a Dictatorship, run by those who are the strongest, and that's not what feedback is about. People speak for themselves and where they're at. There's entirely too much judgment going around. Those people need to voice what they're playing, not what others think they should play. If it's too much, that needs to be heard.

BitterSteel

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. Feedback on how challenging content is, is also a part of the process. If one or two people had an issue with it, that might be acute cases of people not applying themselves. The most recent Poll showed 21% of people who had an issue. That's not something that can be categorized as people who just don't want a challenge. People need to be heard when they believe something is too much, just as much as people who believe things are too easy. It's all a part of the community. Otherwise it becomes a Dictatorship, run by those who are the strongest, and that's not what feedback is about. People speak for themselves and where they're at. There's entirely too much judgment going around. Those people need to voice what they're playing, not what others think they should play. If it's too much, that needs to be heard.

People are allowed to give their feedback, of course. I encourage that, and give my own. But people are also allowed to challenge their feedback to make sure it’s given from a position of knowledge rather than one of being angry that they couldn’t beat it.

If I say Maestro Act 4 is way too difficult because of his Regen and should be nerfed, I would want someone to challenge it, make sure I understand the node and have tried counters.

People need to make sure the feedback given is genuine, rather than just annoyance. In the case of Hydra Adaptoid, it seems to be annoyance give the vast amount of counters.

GroundedWisdom

That's the problem. It's almost a sport to challenge people who think something is too hard, and they get drowned out in the process. If it wasn't for that process, there would have been no changes to Node 30. Nevertheless, if 21% of people have an issue with it, there's a problem. People are speaking for themsleves. Which is how it should be.

Nabilety

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. It's almost a sport to challenge people who think something is too hard, and they get drowned out in the process. If it wasn't for that process, there would have been no changes to Node 30. Nevertheless, if 21% of people have an issue with it, there's a problem. People are speaking for themsleves. Which is how it should be.

You also have to consider the distinction between the individual players though - how certain are you that those 21% have a diverse set of champions to utilize and have experience with how to deal with specific nodes? I think that's what @BitterSteel also was pointing out.

GroundedWisdom

Nabilety wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. It's almost a sport to challenge people who think something is too hard, and they get drowned out in the process. If it wasn't for that process, there would have been no changes to Node 30. Nevertheless, if 21% of people have an issue with it, there's a problem. People are speaking for themsleves. Which is how it should be.

You also have to consider the distinction between the individual players though - how certain are you that those 21% have a diverse set of champions to utilize and have experience with how to deal with specific nodes? I think that's what @BitterSteel also was pointing out.

Considering by the time you get to the Difficulties being discussed, you have a fair amount of experience and a decent Roster, that's not easily dismissed. When discussing something like EQ, people do it monthly. They know the degree of challenge it entails, and they know what doesn't feel right. The point I'm making is people have every right to speak to their own experience and be heard on that.

BitterSteel

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. It's almost a sport to challenge people who think something is too hard, and they get drowned out in the process. If it wasn't for that process, there would have been no changes to Node 30. Nevertheless, if 21% of people have an issue with it, there's a problem. People are speaking for themsleves. Which is how it should be.

There is a huge, huge difference between the difficulty of node 30 and of the Hydra Adaptoid (HA). The HA has unstoppable, a bit of avoidable regen, a small bit of power gain and unblockable under 25%, personally I don’t see the issue with it. It’s a kinda difficult fight, but I didn’t have an issue because I did research and worked out who I needed for it.

He’s a robot, so I took nebula with Proxima synergy, he was shut down before the fight began. Others have discovered Ronan’s use with all the buffs, same with magik. Medusa shuts down robots better than nebula. Some used Corvus Glaive to outdamage everything. Some used Proxima midnight to be able to parry him under 25%. Some used void or guillotene to reverse healing. Every part of his abilities can be countered with champ abilities.

You can’t research and prepare for node 30, it’s just crazy. You have to go in and try to fight well against counter tactics which makes the defenders attack insanely high. I would take the HA fight every time over node 30.

If I thought yours, or anyone else’s concerns regarding Hydra adaptoid were valid, I would let them go on. There has never been a time on these forums where I’ve shut someone’s concerns regarding difficulty just for the sake of it. I’ve only ever challenged why they think that, and if I think the difficulty is alright, then I argue that. Why is your opinion valid, and it should get nerfed, and mine that it is alright is invalid?

Crimson8399

My only complaint about the Adaptoid is hes stronger than the final boss by quite a bit. How does that make sense?

Nabilety

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Nabilety wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. It's almost a sport to challenge people who think something is too hard, and they get drowned out in the process. If it wasn't for that process, there would have been no changes to Node 30. Nevertheless, if 21% of people have an issue with it, there's a problem. People are speaking for themsleves. Which is how it should be.

You also have to consider the distinction between the individual players though - how certain are you that those 21% have a diverse set of champions to utilize and have experience with how to deal with specific nodes? I think that's what @BitterSteel also was pointing out.

Considering by the time you get to the Difficulties being discussed, you have a fair amount of experience and a decent Roster, that's not easily dismissed. When discussing something like EQ, people do it monthly. They know the degree of challenge it entails, and they know what doesn't feel right. The point I'm making is people have every right to speak to their own experience and be heard on that.

I totally agree with that - one should speak their mind. However, just because you beat a certain difficulty the first month, doesn't mean you're bound to do the same the next month - what is the challenging, if otherwise.
For example, when Iceman was first released, I remember people had difficulties with him in the Event Quest he was featured in, so some simply couldn't fully explore it, without spending lots of money, because they were unfamiliar with the mechanics and/or lacked certain ideal champions to counter him such as Ultron, Rogue or Vision.

GroundedWisdom

No, there's no difference. People find something too much, they communicate that. It works both ways. Both are valid. We're not here to speak for someone else's experience. We can agree or disagree, but if someone finds something too much, that's how they find it. The second we start picking and choosing who is valid and who isn't, we degrade the process and the community in general. Different specifics, same situation. It's not a situation where we can rule out who matters and who doesn't. Every Player speaks to their own experience, and everyone matters. It's the same thing. This whole idea that one set of problems matter and one doesn't is not fair or reasonable.

Whathappened

I just want the game to work right. :-(

unknown

This content has been removed.

BitterSteel

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

No, there's no difference. People find something too much, they communicate that. It works both ways. Both are valid. We're not here to speak for someone else's experience. We can agree or disagree, but if someone finds something too much, that's how they find it. The second we start picking and choosing who is valid and who isn't, we degrade the process and the community in general. Different specifics, same situation. It's not a situation where we can rule out who matters and who doesn't. Every Player speaks to their own experience, and everyone matters. It's the same thing. This whole idea that one set of problems matter and one doesn't is not fair or reasonable.

Are you saying that in the history of the game, nobody has ever come to the forums claiming something is impossible or too hard when it actually is quite possible to do?

Should we accommodate them and say yes, your opinion and experience is correct because you can’t possibly be wrong?

Kil63

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

That's the problem. Feedback on how challenging content is, is also a part of the process. If one or two people had an issue with it, that might be acute cases of people not applying themselves. The most recent Poll showed 21% of people who had an issue. That's not something that can be categorized as people who just don't want a challenge. People need to be heard when they believe something is too much, just as much as people who believe things are too easy. It's all a part of the community. Otherwise it becomes a Dictatorship, run by those who are the strongest, and that's not what feedback is about. People speak for themselves and where they're at. There's entirely too much judgment going around. Those people need to voice what they're playing, not what others think they should play. If it's too much, that needs to be heard.

@GroundedWisdom But out of that 21 percent of people, how many have tried different champs than their normal ones? How many have looked for help? How many are trying to do Master or Uncollected with a roster that isn't ready for that?

They may have different reasons for claiming that the content is too hard, but when you have so many others in the community who have found ways to beat these obstacles, especially with 2 and 3 star champions, the argument about the content being too hard and needing to be nerfed goes out the window to me.

Kil63

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

No, there's no difference. People find something too much, they communicate that. It works both ways. Both are valid. We're not here to speak for someone else's experience. We can agree or disagree, but if someone finds something too much, that's how they find it. The second we start picking and choosing who is valid and who isn't, we degrade the process and the community in general. Different specifics, same situation. It's not a situation where we can rule out who matters and who doesn't. Every Player speaks to their own experience, and everyone matters. It's the same thing. This whole idea that one set of problems matter and one doesn't is not fair or reasonable.

People can find something too much and voice their opinion of that all day. The problem I see is when they start saying it's unfair or needs a nerf or things along those lines. Can't give up or expect someone to change something just because it's a bit of a challenge to 1 out of 5 people.

GroundedWisdom

It's not our responsibility to take everyone's inventory. It's perfectly fine if someone didn't find it that hard. When we start trying to silence other people and passing judgment because we don't agree, that's when it becomes a different situation. It happens all the time. "You're not open to suggestions. You're whining. Git gud."......on and on. If people think it's too much, they're not asking for suggestions. They're asking to be heard. You can't force people to see things your way, and you can't make them follow what worked for you. Just because someone found a way around it doesn't mean there isn't a valid concern. That 21% equates 45 people. You can't dissect every person and debunk them as invalid. That's just tearing people down. That's the real issue. There's so much judging that goes on when someone thinks a piece of content is too hard. It's really not appropriate at all.

Nabilety

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It's not our responsibility to take everyone's inventory. It's perfectly fine if someone didn't find it that hard. When we start trying to silence other people and passing judgment because we don't agree, that's when it becomes a different situation. It haooens all the time. "You're not open to suggestions. You're whining. Git gud."......on and on. If people think it's too much, they're not asking for suggestions. They're asking to be heard. You can't force people to see things your way, and you can't make them follow what worked for you. Just because someone found a way around it doesn't mean there isn't a valid concern. That 21% equates 45 people. You can't dissect every person and debunk them as invalid. That's just tearing people down. That's the real issue. There's so much judging that goes on when someone thinks a piece of content is too hard. It's really not appropriate at all.

I'm sorry, this is starting to sound like a therapy session, lol.
If you're not open to suggestions, you're in denial - at that point, you're limiting your own growth. So, what's the purpose of being heard in that case?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Batman05

People can have opinions on something being tondofficult but that doesn’t make there opinions valid just because that’s how they feel. Someone who feels like something is tonhard can be there opinion but reality can be very diffrent than there opinion. If certain people show that this content can be done very reasonable then yes that oblivious makes there opinion on the content being to hard invalid because it was disproved

unknown

This content has been removed.

Epsilon3

The problem is a compound issue between power creep which becomes an exponentially exhausting sprint, outdated champions being retired far faster than before…

And the fact no one ever just cruises along Heroic, Master, and THEN UC with increasingly better champs and want to dive in before they even know what the new champs can do.

Take a bunch of 3/30 and your back up 5*/6* into heroic:
“Huh, when Red Skull has armor up he can power drain wen blocking? Cool let me get an armor break champ and try not to hit his block”

Neither RS or HD are necessarily hard they’re just new. Who honestly initially knew how to avoid YJ SP1 with dexterity when he was first introduced? Anyone remember the outrage of Nameless Guillotine and INFINITY THANOS when they were bosses? Good times…

GroundedWisdom

Nabilety wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It's not our responsibility to take everyone's inventory. It's perfectly fine if someone didn't find it that hard. When we start trying to silence other people and passing judgment because we don't agree, that's when it becomes a different situation. It haooens all the time. "You're not open to suggestions. You're whining. Git gud."......on and on. If people think it's too much, they're not asking for suggestions. They're asking to be heard. You can't force people to see things your way, and you can't make them follow what worked for you. Just because someone found a way around it doesn't mean there isn't a valid concern. That 21% equates 45 people. You can't dissect every person and debunk them as invalid. That's just tearing people down. That's the real issue. There's so much judging that goes on when someone thinks a piece of content is too hard. It's really not appropriate at all.

I'm sorry, this is starting to sound like a therapy session, lol.
If you're not open to suggestions, you're in denial - at that point, you're limiting your own growth. So, what's the purpose of being heard in that case?

Who are we to make that assessment? Do we speak for other people? Do we know what their capabilities are and their mental state based on an opinion? Is it our job to force people to agree with us and see things our way? Are we the ones that assess someone's level of skill and open-mindedness and pass that along to the team based on what we screen as valid or not? No. Everyone speaks for themselves and it's not our call to start passing judgment just because they don't agree with us. It's not our call to say who is right and who is wrong. It's just plain inappropriate.

TacoScotty

Like AW, the modes like uncollected have moved to needing select champs at times for certain fights. Yes, highly skilled players can use a wider variety of champs but there usually exists a select few champs who can handle bosses much easier than others even at a lower rank/* level which more of the general population can fall back on.

I agree with others that people need to stop screaming “nerf” so fast and first step back and see if others have pointers for ideal matchups. If people as a whole don’t like the direction of specific champs being needed for more and more encounters for more of general population then that’s an entire different discussion in my opinion