The way cheating is being handled is flawed.

Mahvel wrote: »

Recently we had been making a lot of tough decisions and removing people who couldn't keep up. This brought in an influx of people that we really didn't know. Well guess what. I woke up one morning shocked to find that we had been knocked down in rank. Money, time and resources wasted. Even worse, due to "privacy" we can't even know who did what and how? This method is no good because;
1. Zero transparency.
2. Easily abused by people that want to ruin alliances.
3. Punishing 29 other people due to one person's behavior?

I can understand taking rank from alliances that are 1-5 people are piloting for everyone.

The worst thing is we got a recruit who said he was plat 1 but took some time off. He was rusty(really bad) at first and then all of the sudden he was a rockstar(almost too good). Me and the other officer in our bg pointed this out to each other and noted that we needed to keep an eye on him. After the other officer confronted him he suddenly had an excuse to leave us. Within the next 2 days our alliance was penalized. Due to the fact that all of our guys have logged in since the the punishment I think it's safe to assume that this guy screwed us. It sucks because we were doing our jobs as officers and but didn't yet have the correct amount of evidence to make a call on whether or not dude was good or too good. Not that it mattered anyways it only took one super suspicious war to ruin our work.

We need alliance wide punishments for alliance wide cheating and only individual punishments for 1 in 29 cheating. We need transparency because we deserve to know who, what, and why we were screwed out of our time and money.

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

Demonzfyre wrote: »

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

Ok fine. We must protect the cheaters from retaliation. But can you agree that the system is flawed?

Riegel

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Recently we had been making a lot of tough decisions and removing people who couldn't keep up. This brought in an influx of people that we really didn't know. Well guess what. I woke up one morning shocked to find that we had been knocked down in rank. Money, time and resources wasted. Even worse, due to "privacy" we can't even know who did what and how? This method is no good because;
1. Zero transparency.
2. Easily abused by people that want to ruin alliances.
3. Punishing 29 other people due to one person's behavior?

I can understand taking rank from alliances that are 1-5 people are piloting for everyone.

The worst thing is we got a recruit who said he was plat 1 but took some time off. He was rusty(really bad) at first and then all of the sudden he was a rockstar(almost too good). Me and the other officer in our bg pointed this out to each other and noted that we needed to keep an eye on him. After the other officer confronted him he suddenly had an excuse to leave us. Within the next 2 days our alliance was penalized. Due to the fact that all of our guys have logged in since the the punishment I think it's safe to assume that this guy screwed us. It sucks because we were doing our jobs as officers and but didn't yet have the correct amount of evidence to make a call on whether or not dude was good or too good. Not that it mattered anyways it only took one super suspicious war to ruin our work.

We need alliance wide punishments for alliance wide cheating and only individual punishments for 1 in 29 cheating. We need transparency because we deserve to know who, what, and why we were screwed out of our time and money.

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

Doesn't take away from the fact it's horrible policy. If they don't want people to "retaliate" then they should ban those accounts that cheat.

Sirnoob2

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Recently we had been making a lot of tough decisions and removing people who couldn't keep up. This brought in an influx of people that we really didn't know. Well guess what. I woke up one morning shocked to find that we had been knocked down in rank. Money, time and resources wasted. Even worse, due to "privacy" we can't even know who did what and how? This method is no good because;
1. Zero transparency.
2. Easily abused by people that want to ruin alliances.
3. Punishing 29 other people due to one person's behavior?

I can understand taking rank from alliances that are 1-5 people are piloting for everyone.

The worst thing is we got a recruit who said he was plat 1 but took some time off. He was rusty(really bad) at first and then all of the sudden he was a rockstar(almost too good). Me and the other officer in our bg pointed this out to each other and noted that we needed to keep an eye on him. After the other officer confronted him he suddenly had an excuse to leave us. Within the next 2 days our alliance was penalized. Due to the fact that all of our guys have logged in since the the punishment I think it's safe to assume that this guy screwed us. It sucks because we were doing our jobs as officers and but didn't yet have the correct amount of evidence to make a call on whether or not dude was good or too good. Not that it mattered anyways it only took one super suspicious war to ruin our work.

We need alliance wide punishments for alliance wide cheating and only individual punishments for 1 in 29 cheating. We need transparency because we deserve to know who, what, and why we were screwed out of our time and money.

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

someone afraid of being labeled a cheat they could not cheat

Binawayawhile

yes it is a bad system, I agree

Riegel

Mahvel wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

Ok fine. We must protect the cheaters from retaliation. But can you agree that the system is flawed?

I disagree. Cheaters should be retaliated against. They should be punished. They should receive no rewards. They should be banned.

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Dropfaith wrote: »

You benefitted from him cheating the system is flawed but not the allaince punishment.

Really all they need to do is perm ban the cheater(which currently doesnt happen)
Then.continue this same system

You don't see how this is dangerous and flawed at all? By that thinking any time you recruit you are taking a risk. The guy we recruited had a stellar account that likely took many years of work. There was no reason to believe he'd be cheating.

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Dropfaith wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

You benefitted from him cheating the system is flawed but not the allaince punishment.

Really all they need to do is perm ban the cheater(which currently doesnt happen)
Then.continue this same system

You don't see how this is dangerous and flawed at all? By that thinking any time you recruit you are taking a risk. The guy we recruited had a stellar account that likely took many years of work. There was no reason to believe he'd be cheating.

No not dangerous so many people would stop cheating if perm bans were handed out..
It would curb the issue fast.

So your plan of attack would be to punish alliances for individuals that they didn't know were cheating or in our case were suspect and likely about to be kicked(no one wants to kick someone without being 100% sure something is wrong). But also perma ban the individuals. Allow this to run until all cheaters are gone. So the alliances that get punished along the way are what? Martyrs?

Bertyb

Eagerly awaiting a mod to respond. This surely won't be deleted/locked without an adequate response.

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Riegel wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Recently we had been making a lot of tough decisions and removing people who couldn't keep up. This brought in an influx of people that we really didn't know. Well guess what. I woke up one morning shocked to find that we had been knocked down in rank. Money, time and resources wasted. Even worse, due to "privacy" we can't even know who did what and how? This method is no good because;
1. Zero transparency.
2. Easily abused by people that want to ruin alliances.
3. Punishing 29 other people due to one person's behavior?

I can understand taking rank from alliances that are 1-5 people are piloting for everyone.

The worst thing is we got a recruit who said he was plat 1 but took some time off. He was rusty(really bad) at first and then all of the sudden he was a rockstar(almost too good). Me and the other officer in our bg pointed this out to each other and noted that we needed to keep an eye on him. After the other officer confronted him he suddenly had an excuse to leave us. Within the next 2 days our alliance was penalized. Due to the fact that all of our guys have logged in since the the punishment I think it's safe to assume that this guy screwed us. It sucks because we were doing our jobs as officers and but didn't yet have the correct amount of evidence to make a call on whether or not dude was good or too good. Not that it mattered anyways it only took one super suspicious war to ruin our work.

We need alliance wide punishments for alliance wide cheating and only individual punishments for 1 in 29 cheating. We need transparency because we deserve to know who, what, and why we were screwed out of our time and money.

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

Doesn't take away from the fact it's horrible policy. If they don't want people to "retaliate" then they should ban those accounts that cheat.

It's "horrible" only because you dont like it. Same with everything else people complain about-drop rates, server outages etc... It works like its supposed to. You dont have to like it but its what the policy is. You can accept it and move on or just move on from the game completely. Those are your choices.

Mahvel wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

You benefitted from him cheating the system is flawed but not the allaince punishment.

Really all they need to do is perm ban the cheater(which currently doesnt happen)
Then.continue this same system

You don't see how this is dangerous and flawed at all? By that thinking any time you recruit you are taking a risk. The guy we recruited had a stellar account that likely took many years of work. There was no reason to believe he'd be cheating.

No not dangerous so many people would stop cheating if perm bans were handed out..
It would curb the issue fast.

So your plan of attack would be to punish alliances for individuals that they didn't know were cheating or in our case were suspect and likely about to be kicked(no one wants to kick someone without being 100% sure something is wrong). But also perma ban the individuals. Allow this to run until all cheaters are gone. So the alliances that get punished along the way are what? Martyrs?

There isnt a way for them to know that the whole alliance wasnt involved. You could be saying you dont know just to save face or not get punished. Thats why the whole alliance is punished.

Dropfaith wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

You benefitted from him cheating the system is flawed but not the allaince punishment.

Really all they need to do is perm ban the cheater(which currently doesnt happen)
Then.continue this same system

You don't see how this is dangerous and flawed at all? By that thinking any time you recruit you are taking a risk. The guy we recruited had a stellar account that likely took many years of work. There was no reason to believe he'd be cheating.

No not dangerous so many people would stop cheating if perm bans were handed out..
It would curb the issue fast.

So your plan of attack would be to punish alliances for individuals that they didn't know were cheating or in our case were suspect and likely about to be kicked(no one wants to kick someone without being 100% sure something is wrong). But also perma ban the individuals. Allow this to run until all cheaters are gone. So the alliances that get punished along the way are what? Martyrs?

It's the exact system used today only with a punishment for the player to deter it more..

Not a big issue. You benefitted from a cheater.. you deserve to be punished for that yes

You really don't think alliances should have any sort of power in these situations?

Here is a scenario for you. A recruit joins you for one war and obviously cheats by taking down boosted nodes with 2*s in t1. You remove him. You are then set back months of progress due to being dropped in rank.

If you think that is right because the alliance benefitted from one cheating individual. I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye and I also hope you are never in a position of power.. lol.

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TankRichardson

Playing devil's advocate (I really don't have a strong feeling one way or another), an alliance could claim they didn't know someone was cheating to get ahead. If their policy is to only punish one person and not the alliance, theoretically an alliance could use 'cheaters' over and over and never face any punishment.

Not saying that's right or fair, but not out of the realm of possibility.

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Recently we had been making a lot of tough decisions and removing people who couldn't keep up. This brought in an influx of people that we really didn't know. Well guess what. I woke up one morning shocked to find that we had been knocked down in rank. Money, time and resources wasted. Even worse, due to "privacy" we can't even know who did what and how? This method is no good because;
1. Zero transparency.
2. Easily abused by people that want to ruin alliances.
3. Punishing 29 other people due to one person's behavior?

I can understand taking rank from alliances that are 1-5 people are piloting for everyone.

The worst thing is we got a recruit who said he was plat 1 but took some time off. He was rusty(really bad) at first and then all of the sudden he was a rockstar(almost too good). Me and the other officer in our bg pointed this out to each other and noted that we needed to keep an eye on him. After the other officer confronted him he suddenly had an excuse to leave us. Within the next 2 days our alliance was penalized. Due to the fact that all of our guys have logged in since the the punishment I think it's safe to assume that this guy screwed us. It sucks becaupunished. doing our jobs as officers and but didn't yet have the correct amount of evidence to make a call on whether or not dude was good or too good. Not that it mattered anyways it only took one super suspicious war to ruin our work.

We need alliance wide punishments for alliance wide cheating and only individual punishments for 1 in 29 cheating. We need transparency because we deserve to know who, what, and why we were screwed out of our time and money.

If there is a privacy statement stating you'll never know who cheated, then you don't deserve anything. They dont tell you for many reasons and I believe retaliation is a big factor. Its not going to change and there iant anything you can do about it.

someone afraid of being labeled a cheat they could not cheat

Its not that the cheaters are afraid of being labeled cheaters. Its what Kabam is afraid of or doesnt want to happened when people know who cheated. If they tell us, the first thing people do is come here and post about it or reddit, youtube, etc.. Then you have people that used line or discord ans suddenly people are posting that information. Now you have people harassing the cheater through those lines of communication etc..
Does having cheaters in game suck? Absolutely.
Do we get to do anything about it? No, because we can't leave the "personal" side out of it. Just let Kabam handle it.

I can't help but feel the "rules are rules" and "the policy is the policy" guys here would be likely to change their tune if it happened to their alliance.

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Dropfaith wrote: »

We wont see eye to eye. Then cause yes if you benefit from a cheater you get punished.

The cheater is then banned from the game forever and acct deleted from server.

This individual who had just joined us had no impact on the months of work we had done.

Mahvel wrote: »

I can't help but feel the "rules are rules" and "the policy is the policy" guys here would be likely to change their tune if it happened to their alliance.

I wouldn't change it either way if it did happen or not. I 100% understand why the rules are there and also there isnt anything that can be done to change it. You arent the first person to post about it. Doubt you'll be the last.

Solswerd

If they are not going to change the privacy policy, they need to start handing out AW/AQ bans. (the same way they are able to ban players from just the arenas)

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

I can't help but feel the "rules are rules" and "the policy is the policy" guys here would be likely to change their tune if it happened to their alliance.

I wouldn't change it either way if it did happen or not. I 100% understand why the rules are there and also there isnt anything that can be done to change it. You arent the first person to post about it. Doubt you'll be the last.

Things are meant to be improved. There is no reason to sit here and accept it for what it is. I can agree with you that the privacy policy is probably a good idea for the reasons you named. But the method of punishment can be improved.

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Dropfaith wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Mahvel wrote: »

I can't help but feel the "rules are rules" and "the policy is the policy" guys here would be likely to change their tune if it happened to their alliance.

I wouldn't change it either way if it did happen or not. I 100% understand why the rules are there and also there isnt anything that can be done to change it. You arent the first person to post about it. Doubt you'll be the last.

Things are meant to be improved. There is no reason to sit here and accept it for what it is. I can agree with you that the privacy policy is probably a good idea for the reasons you named. But the method of punishment can be improved.

Fine then the only other option since you did benefit this war for the cheater. Is vacate all the points of that war he was in for the season ie 0 earned.

I know you want zero punishment for having a cheater but I see no valid reason to have that

See! Conversation leads to improvements! Losing points for wars that had cheating sounds a hell of a lot better than losing months of work and I think most would agree! Even then there are problems introduced with that method but it's getting better. If policies never changed the world would be a scary place.