Does Carnage have any redeeming value?

Serious question here. His health is sub par, his attack is WAY sub par, his block proficiency is a joke. Seriously, has any one found any use for him or is he exactly what we all feared: an equal to Spider Gwen and Fixit?

Comments

ddatm

he is worse than gwen and fixit.

Cuteshelf

Kabam miiike said they are looking at him.

Hopefully they take note of the suggestions regarding fixes posted. A lot of people want him as a viable champ.

I've been using him heaps, trying to figure out if there's something hidden about him, but you kinda have to outrank content to make him viable.
His buffs take too long to stack up and his base stats are too low to begin with.

It's pretty clear they didn't test him, or nerfed him at the last minute becuase he was too strong and didn't test the nerfs.

DalBot

Cuteshelf wrote: »

Kabam miiike said they are looking at him.

Hopefully they take note of the suggestions regarding fixes posted. A lot of people want him as a viable champ.

I've been using him heaps, trying to figure out if there's something hidden about him, but you kinda have to outrank content to make him viable.
His buffs take too long to stack up and his base stats are too low to begin with.

It's pretty clear they didn't test him, or nerfed him at the last minute becuase he was too strong and didn't test the nerfs.

I agree completely. He's so squishy that by the time you would even get a chance to stack a few furies he's dead from block damage. I mean, come on, the most desired champ in the Contest and they add him only to be a punchline? He's "under review", which is mod speak for "we'll pretend we care and give a token statement"

DaMunk

It will be a very long time, if ever, before he gets a much needed buff.

CoatHang3r

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

Etaki_Lirakoi

CoatHang3r wrote: »

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).

LocoMotives

The best build I found was 1 fury, 2 crit rate, and 2 crit damage. Had me doing 12k+ on 5 hit combos with my r3 5*.

CoatHang3r

Etaki_Lirakoi wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).

You don't want to stack 5, as I said 1 stack gives him the highest cdr in game. DR definitely limits how many you want to utilize.

Etaki_Lirakoi

CoatHang3r wrote: »

Etaki_Lirakoi wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

His Crit damage (R4 5*) goes to roughly 7986.45 without masteries, do note that while that seems like a lot, Diminishing returns most likely have destroyed this, but I do not have a good equation to find the exact percent.

It is the highest possible in the game though, I believe, but it won't matter at all if it has basically capped at a low number complimented by his terrible attack.

NOTE: This isn't using the Venom synergy for an extra buff, just his regular amount(5 buffs).

You don't want to stack 5, as I said 1 stack gives him the highest cdr in game. DR definitely limits how many you want to utilize.

I dunno why, but I just completely missed the "One stack" thing, my bad.

Marvel_G

just fix him I payed $30 bucks for him @Kabam Miike

ViperKingV

I've been using resonate/inequity masteries AMD spamming L1. The multiple hits trigger weakness almost every time. It definitely helps limit incoming damage but I agree that he gets crushed by CR disadvantage and DR.
He's useless in AQ and AW.
For such a highly anticipated champ he is probably one of the biggest disappointments.

Grinder

he has prestige..
As far as the champ itself, there's nothing useful about him. By far the worst champ currently in the game.

GroundedWisdom

CoatHang3r wrote: »

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

Have to agree with this. His use is very intricate. I'm getting into him more. He takes time. I'm not saying he's a Boss. However, I think the expectation of what he would be shadowed the design. People expected him to be OP because he was so popular. He takes some getting used to.

Etaki_Lirakoi

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

1) Prestige.
2) His most important buff isn't fury, it is cruelty That one stack is huge and gives him the highest cdr in the game. His bleed being tied to heavies, his most important buff, and his SA makes him a heavy attack type champion. Does it make him a god? No, but it makes him fun and challenging.

Have to agree with this. His use is very intricate. I'm getting into him more. He takes time. I'm not saying he's a Boss. However, I think the expectation of what he would be shadowed the design. People expected him to be OP because he was so popular. He takes some getting used to.

People didn't expect him to be OP, they expected him to be above average. From his very weak bleeds and really low stats all the way to his really long set-up to be "good", a lot of people are just very disappointed.

SlyCat42

Carnage and to a lesser extend Venom are both weaker than most champions because they cut all their base stats to make up for the fact that they can stack buffs. Angela for example also has a low armor rating because she starts with an armor buff.

They might have overdone it a bit with how low their base stats are, and beyond that if Carnage could more reliably apply his bleed he would be fine. A lot of his damage can come from his unique bleed ability, but triggering it is difficult and inconsistent.

It would be easy to "fix" Carnage by just allowing him to apply bleeds with any of his specials (thus tying it to his awakened ability of power gain). I really want to see what fix they actually come up with when they do decide to make changes to the champion.

DLegend

The great stuff about carnage is that his physical resistance and bulwark abilities give him a strong block proficiency, probably almost similar to SL. Plus light attacks crit most of the time.

So yes, carnage is a valuable if you want a champ that has a good survivability while used offensively. You may want to max the block proficiency mastery for best results.

Mr_Platypus

People keep mentioning his "unique bleed". But his bleed works in a similar fashion to OG punisher, apply using 1 thing then all basic hits can make them bleed.
The difference however is that punisher bleed is just sooo much better.

Grinder

DLegend wrote: »

The great stuff about carnage is that his physical resistance and bulwark abilities give him a strong block proficiency, probably almost similar to SL. Plus light attacks crit most of the time.

So yes, carnage is a valuable if you want a champ that has a good survivability while used offensively. You may want to max the block proficiency mastery for best results.

I haven't laughed that good in a while. Thanks for that.

DLegend

Lets be honest now, Carnage has ZERO redeeming values. Tbh, He's too complicated to play with and hits with fists made of the softest pillows in the world. And his survivability is like a wooden pencil that's already been cracked.

This is how carnage should be buffed/fixed:

- Every 10% of health lost, he has a 45% chance to trigger a regeneration buff that regenerates 10% of his max health over 5 seconds. The regeneration buff is interupted and stops, once carnage is struck by an attack.

- Psychopath mode: Carnage begins the fight in psychopath mode. This allows critical hits to inflict bleed lasting for 2 seconds

- Symbiote stealth mode: Dashing back and holding block for 2.5 seconds activates symbiote stealth mode. This allows carnage to ignore evade for 10 seconds. Limit of uses: 4.

- Heavy attacks apply an open wounds passive to the opponent. Open wounds allow bleeds to last 20% longer and increase bleed damage by 50%.

- Special attack 1 grants Carnage a random permanent buff. If the enemy is already bleeding, 2 open wound passives are applied to them.

- Special attack 2 heal blocks the enemy for 10 seconds. If the enemy is already bleeding, 4 open wounds passives are applied to them.

- Special attack 3 will remain the same.

- The attack/action buffs will remain the same.

- New signature ability: Carnage needs to be improved, giving him a 100% chance to be buffed in the next update. Additionally, Carnage has a 100% chance to not be nerfed by kabam.

GbSarkar

Grinder wrote: »

DLegend wrote: »

The great stuff about carnage is that his physical resistance and bulwark abilities give him a strong block proficiency, probably almost similar to SL. Plus light attacks crit most of the time.

So yes, carnage is a valuable if you want a champ that has a good survivability while used offensively. You may want to max the block proficiency mastery for best results.

I haven't laughed that good in a while. Thanks for that.

To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

Tmasters1984

Red text hurt eyes

A_Noob_Is1

short answer, no.

Rafitas

He is completely useless, it's a shame.
Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
Maybe in 2018..
Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
Miike, answer this, please:

New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy

Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider

Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.

Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.

I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

New Spider Tech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

Garbage Villain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s

Grinder

GbSarkar wrote: »

To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.

GbSarkar

Grinder wrote: »

GbSarkar wrote: »

To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.

100 CR Carnage against 100 CR opponent block prof:
Base bp: 44.0% (1571.0)
1 stack bp buff: 56.2% (2569.5)
2 stack bp buff: 64.1% (3568.0)
3 stack bp buff: 69.5% (4566.5)
4 stack bp buff: 73.6% (5565.0)
5 stack bp buff: 76.6% (6563.5)
6 stack (when you block after stacking 5 buffs): 79.1% (7563.0)

100 CR OG Cap against 100 CR opponent block prof: 76.4% (6461)

Rafitas

GbSarkar wrote: »

Grinder wrote: »

GbSarkar wrote: »

To be fair, if you stack enough buffs, his block proficiency can be higher than Capt Am. But the problem is that since he takes so long to stack those buffs, no one would prefer Carnage over CA. Plus, while trying to up bp, you'd be sacrificing damage

No, he can't go higher than the Caps and there's a reason for that. Buffs don't stack for direct amounts anymore, not since 12.0, and that's the #1 issue with carnage as a whole. They dropped his base stats for being able to stack buffs but they didn't account for the MASSIVE buff effectiveness reduction that they implemented. Each time a buff gets a new stack on it, the effectiveness decreases dramatically. It quite literally makes any stacked buffs next to useless unless you have 10+ of something but you can't even do that because of the limit.

This is all going on the maximum potential of carnage as well. So not only is he piss poor in 95% of fights because of the duration of fights, but even in the fights he has a chance to get max potential he's still piss poor because of what they did to stacked buffs in 12.0. There is absolutely nothing about carnage that is even remotely worth while right now, and that's not exaggerated. I was on the hype train for carnage finally being added to the game but they did him dirty in ways that should've straight up been deleted from the game. No defense, no offense, no utility, no point in existing.

100 CR Carnage against 100 CR opponent block prof:
Base bp: 44.0% (1571.0)
1 stack bp buff: 56.2% (2569.5)
2 stack bp buff: 64.1% (3568.0)
3 stack bp buff: 69.5% (4566.5)
4 stack bp buff: 73.6% (5565.0)
5 stack bp buff: 76.6% (6563.5)
6 stack (when you block after stacking 5 buffs): 79.1% (7563.0)

100 CR OG Cap against 100 CR opponent block prof: 76.4% (6461)

Ok dude, but if Carnage was supposed to be an defensive hero or play well with 5x block buffs, they fail at making him.
With 5 block buffs, he will hit like a 3 stars.
Imagine an Carnage with 5x Block Buffs against an imune, ex: Ultron, Colossus.
I'm pretty sure he will be the most weak champs from all we have until now.

LocoMotives

Pretty sure @GbSarkar was pointing out that OG cap is still a much better defensive champ if that was the way someone chose to build Carnage.

DalBot

So yeah, great prestige, otherwise worst champ in the game. Way to bone this one up Kabam.

TripleD_Fenrir

Rafitas wrote: »

He is completely useless, it's a shame.
Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
Maybe in 2018..
Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
Miike, answer this, please:

New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy

Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider

Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.

Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.

I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

New Spider Tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

Garbage Villain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s

Well, R3 5* is equivalent to a R5 4* actually. Still. we've seen one of those do 500+ hits on ROL WS, sooo...

Cuteshelf

TripleD_Fenrir wrote: »

Rafitas wrote: »

He is completely useless, it's a shame.
Miike said they will look at, but personally I think they didn't check him yet.
Maybe in 2018..
Lol, how can theses guys from dev team create a new Spider with such a nice mechanics who has 10000% better than Carnage?
It's causa Spider have so much more love than Carnage? Very nice game balance Kabam, seems pretty equal the treatment with theses 2 characters, look this comparation, already posted in my Carnage post, but can't bump anymore.
Miike, answer this, please:

New Spider tech 4* R3, he maybe got some high PI cause mutant synergy

Carnage 4* R4, one level high than Spider

Matchs end, and looks how good is spider:
316 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r3, really? Awesome.

Matchs end, and looks how Carnage is..an, useless:
588 Hits for kill ROL WS? For an 4* r4, really? Nuff said.

I'm pretty sure the Carnage guy is using the mutants synergy too cause his high PI at R4.
So, Miike, i'm sorry, but you guys should do the right thing, we asking for an "fix", but that fix advice should come from dev team, cause isn't like (Example): Oh, Carnage was stacking 10 bleeds in 10 hits, now, after the 14.0 he don't stacking anymore, fix this. NO!
He already coming to the game so poorly, he so weak, he never worked like indeed, so, we comes to the game with that, you guys should deal with!

Btw, show to dev team theses vids, an proof of Garbage hero that you guys did.

New Spider Tech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ketce51sbg

Garbage Villain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wU7ZEN4C0&t=550s

Well, R3 5* is equivalent to a R5 4* actually. Still. we've seen one of those do 500+ hits on ROL WS, sooo...

Who?

Does that champ have utility or anything else compensating?

Carnage literally has nothing and is countered by dispell champs and bleed immune/resistant.
Plus has the added difficulty of requiring to use a heavy/L3 to get a bleed up.

With zero utility he needs to be either a damage dealer or a defence champ that's difficult to fight. And he's neither.