Upcoming Changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity - Discussion Thread

Kabam Miike · 2018-08-29T18:11:06+00:00

<span style="color:darkorange">Summoners!<br/><br/> We're just announced some changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity that are coming your way early next month! <a href="https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/92543/upcoming-changes-to-mystic-dispersion-and-dexterity/" rel="nofollow">Take a look at the…

Kabam Miike

Summoners!

We're just announced some changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity that are coming your way early next month! Take a look at the announcement, read through the FAQ, and ask any questions that you might have here.

Comments

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MostWanted

@Kabam Miike during Gift event of Christmas 2016, I spent something like 2000 units in gifts for a friend and he gave me the same amount of units in Mystic cores. He spent UNITS for me,I spent UNITS for him and I will not receive those units, but Loyalty? It doesn't look so correct

Noname54

We all want 1 Mystic Rank down ticket class Pls !

GroundedWisdom

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Agreed. People got more than enough out of the Mastery. My issue is that's not what the Tickets are for. They're not for changes to anything other than the Champs themselves, specifically the Champs. I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful. That's not logical or even accurate. No Champ depends on MD for functioning. This is what happens when people spend valuable Resources for one area of the game alone. Anything can change. There's a great deal of argument on how valuable those Resources are, but very little introspect at how there was little forethought in selection. If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes. In this case, the Mastery changed, but same principle. Ranking is irreversible. With valuable Resources, it's best to look at all-around usefulness.

Badrose

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Agreed. People got more than enough out of the Mastery. My issue is that's not what the Tickets are for. They're not for changes to anything other than the Champs themselves, specifically the Champs. I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful. That's not logical or even accurate. No Champ depends on MD for functioning. This is what happens when people spend valuable Resources for one area of the game alone. Anything can change. There's a great deal of argument on how valuable those Resources are, but very little introspect at how there was little forethought in selection. If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes. In this case, the Mastery changed, but same principle. Ranking is irreversible. With valuable Resources, it's best to look at all-around usefulness.

This is totally nonsense. It is (was) MYSTIC dispersion, not a GENERIC mastery to increase something for every class, so you cant's say "I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful". If you change a specific mastery you destroy a specific class for which you spent tons of resources, time and MONEY. No one with a grain of salt would have ranked his Juggernaut without MD, not even Dormammu. If else, you simply don't understand how MD changed the use of some champs.

Was MD too powerful? Yes! Nerf needed? Yes! But it was their mistake and now all they have to do is give us MYSTIC rank down tickets to avoid a fraudolent action.

If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes.

One aspect that is changing? Too easy... According to this theory we don't have to spend in anything just because everything may change in the game. While we accept that the game may change, they have to accept to refund their customers.

Other quotes...

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

This is even more nonsense. Just explain why we should refund rewards after regularly using a mastery they've created. As it was, MD was not an exploit, it was supposed to work exactly as it worked, it was just too powerfull just like many other things in this game. I don't ask to cut war rewards for those guys who are so lucky to have Blade on their attack phase and Domino on D-fence.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

Nonsense after nonsense. No consequences? We now have totally useless heros! What else do you want?

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GroundedWisdom

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

Irohr

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

I can agree with you except calling it an exploit. It was working as intended and we used it as it was supposed to be used. Is my r5 4* dorm useless now? No. I'll still use him just not for defense most likely but I will see when the changes come around.

Neck_down1

What I want to know when I said unable to purchase, it doesn’t say why I can’t access the levels I’ve already paid for. I feel a lack of common sense here

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Agreed. People got more than enough out of the Mastery. My issue is that's not what the Tickets are for. They're not for changes to anything other than the Champs themselves, specifically the Champs.

I'm not specifically a proponent for RDTs in general, but this oft-repeated statement is false. I don't care if @Kabam Miike himself were to say it, he'd simply be misspeaking. RDTs are not explicitly warranted when champions are changed, nor are they not warranted when champions are not changed. We have counter-examples of both which prove this statement to be false. RDTs are basically a special reward with *no* explicit rule that dictates when they *must* be used and when they *must not* be used. They are an incredibly high value in-game tool that is generally used for one of two purposes: first, as a last resort measure to correct a problem the developers feel must be addressed involving champion rank ups, and second, as an extraordinary reward for special circumstances. That not only properly describes how they've been issued in the past, it is also consistent with how most MMO-like games treat similar tools in general, on a sliding scale of more to less restrictive.

When @Kabam Miike says the devs will be specifically looking at champions like Dormammu, there is the possibility that the devs could issue champion-specific RDTs for that champion, even though that champion has not been directly changed. He probably just can't say that explicitly. However, the threshold for when that might happen is almost certainly based primarily on datamined statistics from how that champion is used and how effective he is in 20.0 across the entire game. Anecdotal reports of individual players being disappointed are not likely to affect that decision.

But if *could* happen if the data tells them something dramatic enough was happening at a high enough frequency, because there is no rule about what *specific changes* warrant them. When Kabam says *colloquially* that it has to be a dramatic change to the champion, circumstantial changes qualify. Not to get anyone's hopes up, because datamined signals generally have to be thermonuclear for developers to take note of them, but it is theoretically possible. It is also possible they would consider changing Dormammu himself, though.

Demonzfyre

Lewaspl wrote: »

I made 5 star ghost rider to rank 5 I gave him generic awakening Stone Ale 100 signatures and Also md to rank5 and now it will be less usefull in both aw and quests where I mainly use ghost rider and I wont get back my awakening signatures and rank down even when I know I wont use him anymore in aliance war I will get just some loyality wich I dont need.i think this is really not fair because I just lost most of act5 progresion and I wont get anything.

@Lewaspl This is exactly the type of mis-information that shouldn't be in these threads. Ghost Rider will be changed very little by the changes made to MD. MD activates on buffs expiring and being nullified. GR excels at nullifying buffs through L1/L2. Just like before, he can benefit from using these specials with MD. GR will still be highly effective champ like he always has. I suggest re-reading the announcement post again for a better understanding of the MD changes.

Demonzfyre

Badrose wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Agreed. People got more than enough out of the Mastery. My issue is that's not what the Tickets are for. They're not for changes to anything other than the Champs themselves, specifically the Champs. I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful. That's not logical or even accurate. No Champ depends on MD for functioning. This is what happens when people spend valuable Resources for one area of the game alone. Anything can change. There's a great deal of argument on how valuable those Resources are, but very little introspect at how there was little forethought in selection. If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes. In this case, the Mastery changed, but same principle. Ranking is irreversible. With valuable Resources, it's best to look at all-around usefulness.

This is totally nonsense. It is (was) MYSTIC dispersion, not a GENERIC mastery to increase something for every class, so you cant's say "I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful". If you change a specific mastery you destroy a specific class for which you spent tons of resources, time and MONEY. No one with a grain of salt would have ranked his Juggernaut without MD, not even Dormammu. If else, you simply don't understand how MD changed the use of some champs.

Was MD too powerful? Yes! Nerf needed? Yes! But it was their mistake and now all they have to do is give us MYSTIC rank down tickets to avoid a fraudolent action.

If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes.

One aspect that is changing? Too easy... According to this theory we don't have to spend in anything just because everything may change in the game. While we accept that the game may change, they have to accept to refund their customers.

Other quotes...

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

This is even more nonsense. Just explain why we should refund rewards after regularly using a mastery they've created. As it was, MD was not an exploit, it was supposed to work exactly as it worked, it was just too powerfull just like many other things in this game. I don't ask to cut war rewards for those guys who are so lucky to have Blade on their attack phase and Domino on D-fence.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

Nonsense after nonsense. No consequences? We now have totally useless heros! What else do you want?

@Badrose Please go into detail how Mephisto, Dorm, Magik are useless heroes? Please, I would love to know why they are useless because of this change (barely a change at that).

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Demonzfyre

Toukolou wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

dkatryl wrote: »

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Agreed. People got more than enough out of the Mastery. My issue is that's not what the Tickets are for. They're not for changes to anything other than the Champs themselves, specifically the Champs. I'm also not going to subscribe to the idea of how those Champs NEED MD to be useful. That's not logical or even accurate. No Champ depends on MD for functioning. This is what happens when people spend valuable Resources for one area of the game alone. Anything can change. There's a great deal of argument on how valuable those Resources are, but very little introspect at how there was little forethought in selection. If you're going to spend valuable Resources for one aspect that is changing, like War or AQ, then you run the risk of less useful Champs later on when that aspect changes. In this case, the Mastery changed, but same principle. Ranking is irreversible. With valuable Resources, it's best to look at all-around usefulness.

Doesn't matter what we rewards were reaped or why people ranked a particular mastery up. Kabam set the way it works up, allowed it to continue for a couple of years while more and more people ranked specific champs up according to the function of that mastery. Players didn't make the mastery OP, Kabam did.

They are now fundamentally changing the function of that mastery. Players need compensation for the choices that were made using the rules kabam set up. Kabam changed those rules.

You don't need compensation for every change that is made. It was a OP mastery. You can't deny that fact at all. They didn't make that big of a change to it either. You can still gain power from Dex like before but it won't be every time it happens. Why can't we give it a try before climbing to the ledge when a change is made?

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Dr_Doob617

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Wolf @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Zibiit

I’m genuinely confused right now, I just tried to switch my utility tree for war defense and now I can’t put MD back on. Now I know it was stated you were locking the ability to purchase more levels of mystic dispersion but why can I not put back on the levels I’ve unlocked already, and when will I be able to?

winterthur

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

It is not true that changes to champ which 'weakens' the champ ability is followed by issuing RDT. I could be wrong but there was none when Gwenpool was changed.

Kpatrix

I'm usually against rank down tickets, but in this case you have totally destroyed juggs usefulness in game. The only redeeming quality he had was the power gain from MD in war. Take that away from him and what does he have ??? This is a huge change to the meta and MD was always said to be working as intended, for years. Now after investing in champs that interact with a mastery a certain way to make them better, we are being told it was broken. At least when you dropped the leadership synergy you let people sell champs to recover the resources, so why not something like that now ? It really makes a few champs go from being a decent defender to rubbish overnight.

BUNGALNGAL

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Lewaspl wrote: »

I made 5 star ghost rider to rank 5 I gave him generic awakening Stone Ale 100 signatures and Also md to rank5 and now it will be less usefull in both aw and quests where I mainly use ghost rider and I wont get back my awakening signatures and rank down even when I know I wont use him anymore in aliance war I will get just some loyality wich I dont need.i think this is really not fair because I just lost most of act5 progresion and I wont get anything.

@Lewaspl This is exactly the type of mis-information that shouldn't be in these threads. Ghost Rider will be changed very little by the changes made to MD. MD activates on buffs expiring and being nullified. GR excels at nullifying buffs through L1/L2. Just like before, he can benefit from using these specials with MD. GR will still be highly effective champ like he always has. I suggest re-reading the announcement post again for a better understanding of the MD changes.

GR's L2 nullifies buffs? This shows how much a kabam apologists really understand the mechanics of this game hence they should not be taken seriously.

Wreck_It_Wretch

I'd honestly would like to see more masteries get reworked and see more variety in build strategies. That way literally everyone in the game wouldnt have the same variation of mastery set ups.

Some masteries are completely obsolete, and just with a little tweak, could be a viable choice. For example, no one that has sufficient knowledge of the game uses Strength or Greater Strength, even though it would be awesome to have higher attack, 9 mastery points for an 8% increase just isn't worth it.

Now if Greater Strength was something like this, 1 point = 3% attack increase, 2nd point = 6%, 3rd point 9% and capped at 3/3. If it was a skill that had greater returns per point spent, without being overly powered, it would be a mastery worth investing in. Same with Vitality and Greater Vitality.

Another example. Pittance and Prosperity, would be nice masteries to have, gold shortage is always a major issue, but then measly amount of increase isn't worth the points, they're better spent else where.

There are so many masteries with a little tweak here and there could completely change the way people make their builds. Also keep in mind, the masteries havent changed since pre 12.0 days, other then Kabaam reworking the numbers for 12.0. Skills and abilities have evolved since then, there is so much that has been added to the game, that I feel masteries need to be adjusted to go along with the other changes in the game. To create a new experience for the community.

Another Example. You have Deep Wounds, to enhance the effectiveness of Bleed. Bleed has always been the primary DoT debuff of choice in the game, because their wasnt much else. So Deep Wounds for your Bleed Champs was a given. Now there is a lot more variety of debuffs in game, but no masteries to enhance any of them. Incineration and shock is more common then it has ever been. Poison and Degeneration are still relatively rare, but it would be cool to have a "Deep Woundsesque" option for other DoT effects such as Incinerate and Shock.

This is one of the best mobile games out there, and Kabaam has always done a good job for the most part making the game a great game. But Contest of Champions has the potential to be THE BEST, it just needs more variation, to add a certain level of strategy and thought to the game, not just good timing and reflexes, and a fat wallet 🤑😋

GroundedWisdom

winterthur wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

It is not true that changes to champ which 'weakens' the champ ability is followed by issuing RDT. I could be wrong but there was none when Gwenpool was changed.

The Champ's Ability is separate from MD, and in no way are the Champs dependent on MD to fucntion. It enhances their Power Gain. I also didn't say any and every change. A significant change to the way they were fundamentally intended to perform. GP wasn't significant. It was a fix for an exploitable mechanic.

DrZola

I’m feeling like a couple of the commenters on this thread may be suffering from a case of Stockholm syndrome.

Dr. Zola

Wally_Woofer

I had removed MD quite sometime back and even forgotten that I'd done so. I didn't feel hindered, but one thing of importance to some, my mystic champs we're no longer placed on AW boss nodes. Are they useless, definitely not.

However; if Kabam intentionally changes the mechanic of a mastery, I find no fault in being divested and permitted to make the choice anew.

Sirnoob2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

winterthur wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

It is not true that changes to champ which 'weakens' the champ ability is followed by issuing RDT. I could be wrong but there was none when Gwenpool was changed.

The Champ's Ability is separate from MD, and in no way are the Champs dependent on MD to fucntion. It enhances their Power Gain. I also didn't say any and every change. A significant change to the way they were fundamentally intended to perform. GP wasn't significant. It was a fix for an exploitable mechanic.

ur logic does not work if it did we would've gotten rank down tickets when they re worked luke cage

GroundedWisdom

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

winterthur wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

It is not true that changes to champ which 'weakens' the champ ability is followed by issuing RDT. I could be wrong but there was none when Gwenpool was changed.

The Champ's Ability is separate from MD, and in no way are the Champs dependent on MD to fucntion. It enhances their Power Gain. I also didn't say any and every change. A significant change to the way they were fundamentally intended to perform. GP wasn't significant. It was a fix for an exploitable mechanic.

ur logic does not work if it did we would've gotten rank down tickets when they re worked luke cage

I swear, any angle......
Let me put it more plainly.
We aren't talking about buffs. We're talking nerfs. Major nerfs. To the Champs. Not content. Not Masteries. Nerfs. We haven't seen any like that in a year and a half.

Sirnoob2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

winterthur wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

People are being compensated for the change. The Mastery is what's changing. That's what's being compensated. Not the Champs, those aren't changing at all.

It is not true that changes to champ which 'weakens' the champ ability is followed by issuing RDT. I could be wrong but there was none when Gwenpool was changed.

The Champ's Ability is separate from MD, and in no way are the Champs dependent on MD to fucntion. It enhances their Power Gain. I also didn't say any and every change. A significant change to the way they were fundamentally intended to perform. GP wasn't significant. It was a fix for an exploitable mechanic.

ur logic does not work if it did we would've gotten rank down tickets when they re worked luke cage

I swear, any angle......
Let me put it more plainly.
We aren't talking about buffs. We're talking nerfs. Major nerfs. To the Champs. Not content. Not Masteries. Nerfs. We haven't seen any like that in a year and a half.

so u get to change ur statement when ever u want?

cuz I don't ever remember a kabam staff saying there just for major nerfs but feel free to prove me wrong

Wally_Woofer

@GroundedWisdom I'm relatively new to the posting mechanics of this (or any) forum. Are the number of flags you are getting related to your followers? If so, you sir are definitely winnnnnning.

GroundedWisdom

Actually, it was worded quite similarly to the way I've already mentioned, but that wasn't sufficient enough to be misconstrued.