Upcoming Changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity - Discussion Thread

Summoners!

We're just announced some changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity that are coming your way early next month! Take a look at the announcement, read through the FAQ, and ask any questions that you might have here.

Comments

Mikespikeskull

Okay thank you @Demonzfyre yeah I didn’t take the time to read every single persons question I have a life 😉

Demonzfyre

Mikespikeskull wrote: »

Okay thank you @Demonzfyre yeah I didn’t take the time to read every single persons question I have a life 😉

There's this little thing called a search bar. You can type in words inside a thread and find answers to questions. But hey, good luck waiting for that answer.

DarkSpeedKing

hephaestus wrote: »

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

I think we all agree

I don't think Kabam agrees.

Jajaja, at least the argument of the champs we ranked up only for alliance war defense is irrefutable.

We totally need tickets for those @Kabam Miike

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

hephaestus wrote: »

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

I think we all agree

I don't think Kabam agrees.

Jajaja, at least the argument of the champs we ranked up only for alliance war defense is irrefutable.

We totally need tickets for those @Kabam Miike

Oh yeah because Magik, Dormammu, Mephisto, Loki, and all other mystic defense champs have no other use what so ever at all.

hephaestus

Mikespikeskull wrote: »

I have a life 😉

Then you've already lost at this game.

DarkSpeedKing

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE wrote: »

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

hephaestus wrote: »

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

I think we all agree

I don't think Kabam agrees.

Jajaja, at least the argument of the champs we ranked up only for alliance war defense is irrefutable.

We totally need tickets for those @Kabam Miike

Oh yeah because Magik, Dormammu, Mephisto, Loki, and all other mystic defense champs have no other use what so ever at all.

I have much better champions to use for attack than Dormammu, so you're right, my 5* r4 Dormammu won't be useful for me as well as those who ranked up Jugger, Mordo and other mystic champs that have no other use what so ever at all ;-)

Ashtontonic

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Repto23 wrote: »

Why are our points being stripped during this refund? Thats not how it was after the willpower nerf. How are we supposed to know if its worth spending our resources that youre refunding?

You'll have 6 days to test out the new Mystic Dispersion before the refund is issued.

kabam took months to test it out, and we have 6 days, how sure is kabam everythg got fix, and no bug will be detected on the 6 days trial, if there's still bug during the 6 days trial, it wont be fair, as BUG always found by the players, not the developers...

Wally_Woofer

winterthur wrote: »

Wally_Woofer wrote: »

You succeeded at getting me to review all the previous pages, yet again, but I was not successful at locating this comment of which you speak. Perhaps you could lend a hand locating it?

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hi There,

As we said in the original post on the Mystic Dispersion/Dexterity Beta, after we are done with them, we are going to turn our attention to Pure Skill.

We don't have any more information on that right now, but as soon as we do, we'll let you guys know!

I find it interesting that the identified text doesn't turn up in the search that someone pointed out was so convenient...does that mean it is bogus or has been removed, or that I'm searching incorrectly? Or in the announcement, not in this discussion....

Weapon_J

Buying that Unstoppable Colossus was a mistake

After this, you may as well remove him from the Loyalty Store

GroundedWisdom

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

Sirnoob2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

they had the same thought process during 12.0 even had mike giving assurance that strange would still be good afterwords and well we saw how the wait and see approach ended up

DarkSpeedKing

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

they had the same thought process during 12.0 even had mike giving assurance that strange would still be good afterwords and well we saw how the wait and see approach ended up

Exactly, this should be adressed the same way, that's why Mystic Rank Down Tickets are necessary

GroundedWisdom

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

they had the same thought process during 12.0 even had mike giving assurance that strange would still be good afterwords and well we saw how the wait and see approach ended up

Not at all the same scale. Those changes were major. The very system itself changed. MD was an overpowered Mastery for years, and people gained a great deal of Rewards from it. However, since the game has changed a great deal, it's become more of a problem than previously. For that matter, we can't rely on the same tactics forever. They're refunding Resources spent on the Mastery, which is the very thing being changed, and allowing people the chance to try it out. Having seen the proposed changes, I'm suggesting people wait and see for themselves. This is not the same situation as 12.0, and any comparison is dramatized, in my opinion.

Sirnoob2

devs are pretty good at doing meta changes messing up stuff and not following thru instead of releasing a meta change that could screw over someone's roster in ways they did not intend they could instead run aw thru a test server gather feedback and move from there now there gonna do what they did with pure skill/strange over whelm them selves and end up ignoring the things they messed up

DarkSpeedKing

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

they had the same thought process during 12.0 even had mike giving assurance that strange would still be good afterwords and well we saw how the wait and see approach ended up

Not at all the same scale. Those changes were major. The very system itself changed. MD was an overpowered Mastery for years, and people gained a great deal of Rewards from it. However, since the game has changed a great deal, it's become more of a problem than previously. For that matter, we can't rely on the same tactics forever. They're refunding Resources spent on the Mastery, which is the very thing being changed, and allowing people the chance to try it out. Having seen the proposed changes, I'm suggesting people wait and see for themselves. This is not the same situation as 12.0, and any comparison is dramatized, in my opinion.

Is it so difficult for you to understand that there are so many people who ranked up champions specifically for alliance war defense porpouses only because of their interaction with MD?

I would have never ranked up my 5* Dormammu to rank 4 if I knew about this, and it's the same for all the people who ranked up Juggs or Mordo, these champs are terrible for attack porpouses.

There's nothing to think about, they will be much less effective now as defenders, that's the reason we are asking for mystic rank down tickets

Do you understand now my friend?

GroundedWisdom

DarkSpeedKing wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I think it would be best for people to wait and see how the relationship reacts when it goes live before they form their opinions.

they had the same thought process during 12.0 even had mike giving assurance that strange would still be good afterwords and well we saw how the wait and see approach ended up

Not at all the same scale. Those changes were major. The very system itself changed. MD was an overpowered Mastery for years, and people gained a great deal of Rewards from it. However, since the game has changed a great deal, it's become more of a problem than previously. For that matter, we can't rely on the same tactics forever. They're refunding Resources spent on the Mastery, which is the very thing being changed, and allowing people the chance to try it out. Having seen the proposed changes, I'm suggesting people wait and see for themselves. This is not the same situation as 12.0, and any comparison is dramatized, in my opinion.

Is it so difficult for you to understand that there are so many people who ranked up champions specifically for alliance war defense porpouses only because of their interaction with MD?

I would have never ranked up my 5* Dormammu to rank 4 if I knew about this, and it's the same for all the people who ranked up Juggs or Mordo, these champs are terrible for attack porpouses.

There's nothing to think about, they will be much less effective now as defenders, that's the reason we are asking for mystic rank down tickets

Do you understand now my friend?

It's not difficult to understand at all. People Ranked Mystic Champs because MD got Kills. Which it did marvellously, due to the fact that it was overpowered because basic functions fed it, as well as other Buffs. However, people Rank for whatever reason suits them at the time. Whether it's preference, or for a particular use within the Meta at that time. There is no guarantee that the Champ will be just as effective at any particular purpose later on down the road. Meaning, there's no promise that it will guarantee Kills for the duration of the game. The game is constantly changing, and considering the amount of time MD was as overpowered as it was, there's little room for surprise. That doesn't mean the game is responsible for refunding Ranking materials when our purpose shifts. To put it frankly, we need to work on Ranking new Champs if we require something else. Nothing guarantees that you will Rank specific Champs and dominate any particular aspect of content indefinitely. That's not how Ranking works. You Rank, earn more Resources, and Rank more. That's progress. The changes are to a Mastery, not the Champs, and even though people Ranked for that reason alone, that was a choice. They're not responsible for providing the means to keep our Defense on top whenever content changes, in my opinion. People made good use of it, considering it got Kills from people trying to avoid getting hit. Things change.
TL:DR - I understand, and I disagree.

borntohula

A lot has been said already, which speaks volumes about the commitment with which players approach the game. I’m one of those players, so here’s my two cents.

I think the decision to revert MD investments, is sensible and fair. Kudos for that. However, I also think this should simply (and only) be considered a best practice: it’s the ethical thing to do. In other words: I can’t imagine many companies would have the audacity NOT to refund for a product or service they significantly alter, and which will have less customer-value in the future. So, yes, I honestly appreciate the refund, but it’s not the kind of decision that makes me bounce up and down like a toddler on a sugar rush.

The decision to not (at least not immediately) hand out (a) rank down ticket(s) to customers who invested valuable resources to rank up AW mystic defenders, doesn’t sit quite as well with me. Yes, it could be argued some of those champions retain a fair bit of their value, but that doesn’t go for all of them. Besides, even in the best-case scenario – e.g. a champ can and will still be used effectively in offense – the value of mystics DOES go down. Significantly.

Given the recent uproar surrounding 19.0 (it still irks me no in-game warning was issued; it could have been all legalese as far as I’m concerned, but an in-game warning was called for) I think the changes to MD would have been the perfect time to go slightly beyond best practices. A single, mystic only rank-down ticket would go a long way towards that.

Would that fully compensate all customers? No. I’m certain many players ranked up more than one mystic champ strictly/mostly for AW defense. But I think even players that went all out and ranked three or more mystics to that end, would be satisfied with a single RDT. Players understand some changes are inevitable, and that we can’t always come out on top.
Would it overcompensate some customers? Perhaps, but that would probably pertain to a negligible part of the player-base.

To me, a single mystics RDT would go a long way towards restoring some of the goodwill that was lost due to the way 19.0 was handled. I don’t even think it would negatively impact the company’s bottom-line. After all, players who would rank down their (formerly best, but newly mediocre) mystic defender, will most likely re-invest those resources in another solid defender. Probably a defender with fun, interactive mechanics, like auto block, et cetera.

The short version: I think it would be prudent to throw customers this relatively small bone. Because the situation (yes, that’s just my opinion) calls for it. And because it would demonstrate the company is prepared to go a little beyond the bare minimum to keep customers happy. It’s been so long since a Kabam gesture gave me that giddy sugar-rush high, I’m starting to wonder whether it’s like first love: a bittersweet memory. :-P

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winterthur

Wally_Woofer wrote: »

I find it interesting that the identified text doesn't turn up in the search that someone pointed out was so convenient...does that mean it is bogus or has been removed, or that I'm searching incorrectly? Or in the announcement, not in this discussion....

It is found in Pure Skill Rank Down post.

Noname54

We all should get 1 mystic rank down ticket !

Twisted_soles36

I’m concerned as I built my team around mystic champs ( defenders)
And I feel you have already made mystic champs easier to beat with the blade trinity
All you have to do is look around AW and all you see are blade profiles
Now my dormamu and magik are gonna be even less affective .
If I would have know last year I wouldn’t have wasted my time and money chasing the top mystic defenders. I’m guessing the beta testers weren’t people with heavy mystic champ defenders, more than likely people who didn’t. So when I test the md and see that my champ will be worse ill get to remove my mastery points but stuck with the champs ( great plan) if yur effectively offering rank down for yur masterys you should also have the offer to do it to yur mystic champs ONLY

dkatryl

People asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT are focusing on how USELESS those champs are without MD, and other hyperbolic comments, and trying to keep the narrative firmly there.

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

So now that they have reaped those benefits, they want to be able to just shift their resources into the new AWD hotness, such as auto-parry champs. With relatively no consequence. And expect everyone to just universally agree that is fair, including those that didn't participate in the MD nonsense.

So, my question is how many people would still be asking for R4/R5 Mystic RDT's if they had to refund those rewards they got while using those R4/R5 Mystics on defense?

Spurgeon14

addisonbassist wrote: »

How will the changes to dexterity affect spite nodes and the like?

I don't think it will change it at all since dexterity still triggers increased crit which is considered a buff.

ill_

@Kabam Miike Can you tell us how you plan on 'keeping an eye on MD'? After the changes are implemented, mystic defenders will suck... mystic dispersion isn't relevant in any other part of the game. You can only observe this change in Alliance War, the same alliance war where diversity matters so you won't see many mystics anyways, and now with the change to MD, the Magik's, Dormammu's, Mephisto's, Morningstars will not be hard to beat anymore. With only 3 wars per week, just how long will your investigation take?

It can take months, maybe a year to fully "keep an eye" on our mystic defenders before you decide to give us any type of rank down material... if you are in fact a player, do you think this is fair? It makes the most sense to give us the option to reset any mystic champs back to Rank 1, and decide for ourselves if we want to rank them back up after we experiment with the new mystic dispersion. Then do your investigation and take as long as you need.

borntohula

dkatryl wrote: »

What they are glossing over is that they knew exactly how OP MD was. That any kills by their 'otherwise useless' mystic champs were, by extension, entirely due to MD. They knowingly participated in exploiting a broken relationship between Dexterity and MD, and enjoyed the benefits of this with more defensive kills, increasing the likelihood of getting AW wins, which means better rewards.

I'm not entirely clear what you are suggesting here. Are you implying people who ranked up mystic champs and invested in MD cheated somehow? Is making use of game mechanics, implemented by a developer, nefarious these days? Game mechanics, moreover, that have been an integral part of the game for ages, and were conformed again and again to be working 'as intended'? Moreover, are you seriously implying it is in some way 'unfair' or 'unjust' to rank up champions that are good at defending? Or, conversely, of ranking champs that are useful offensively? And, if so, what do you consider to be 'fair' than? Ranking up only 'bad' champs? Also, what about investing in, say, the Deep Wounds mastery, when you use Blade a lot? Would that also be close to 'exploiting a broken relationship' in your book? I don't know. If I buy my next Ferrari, I'll make sure they put in a Suzuki Swift motor. To even the playing field. Mind you, I'll still pay the regular prize though. Your arguments converted me.

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Lewaspl

I made 5 star ghost rider to rank 5 I gave him generic awakening Stone Ale 100 signatures and Also md to rank5 and now it will be less usefull in both aw and quests where I mainly use ghost rider and I wont get back my awakening signatures and rank down even when I know I wont use him anymore in aliance war I will get just some loyality wich I dont need.i think this is really not fair because I just lost most of act5 progresion and I wont get anything.

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IsItthough

Miike,

Im not sure if this has been asked or answered but I haven't seen it yet. While the announcement states you are refunding mystic cores, what about the Stony Mastery Core. Will we get those back as well? If we don't intend to use MD now it would be nice to use those to open another mastery.

borntohula

Slay_Monster wrote: »

Hmmm......rank down tickets. I'm not fussed either way to be honest as I have bugger all decent Mystics for Wars defence. Should we get RDT's? Possibly. Correct me if I'm wrong but if you do rank down a Mystic R5 4 star or R4/5 5 star champ, what are we all going to do with the Mystic T4CC's? They'd be useless unless you traded in three for ONE of another class. Which to me is just a bad idea. So I'm somewhat......puzzled. Pretty much sitting on my hands on this one.

I'll take the cat fours. Plus the T2a from ranking down my 5/4. I could hold on to the cat 4 for the time being. Maybe they'll introduce some mystic in the future that doesn't rely on MD all that much. Or I could use it to take two other mystics up to a lower rank. Or maybe R4 some 5 star mystic that I would actually use OUTSIDE of AW defense. I'd even trade in 3 to 1 if they go into overflow. But most importantly, I'd get decide what to do with the materials - that is already a big plus in my book.