Upcoming Changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity - Discussion Thread

Summoners!

We're just announced some changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity that are coming your way early next month! Take a look at the announcement, read through the FAQ, and ask any questions that you might have here.

Comments

Epsilon3

INTEGRAL wrote: »

RIP Mystic champs. They will be the most useless champs in game.

Rank down tickets must be sent. People ranked up mystic champs and now they are trash

@INTEGRAL

Right because no one will ever want a Doctor Voodoo, Magik, Morningstar, Mephisto, Loki, or Scarlet Witch EVER AGAIN!

I’ve never had MD and I want all those champs (even got a few of them)

Nullification and Expiration will still work fine. Just when you decide to bring let’s say Hulk to the Arena he won’t trigger MD with every single attack when he drops low and gets fury basically every hit

GroundedWisdom

Wally_Woofer wrote: »

@Kabam Miike , I have but one question, why is MD getting preferential treatment? I've seen your post stating that Pure skill is more effective at level 3 prior to changes in the game, and that levels 4 and 5 are now only of benefit against high armors champs. Sure, I could have enjoyed opening the last two, most-costly levels of MD and reaped the benefits, but upon having what is being done now, I'd have nobody to blame but myself. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! I think what is being done for MD is more than fair, and well beyond anything being requested for the last 18 months or longer by those of us that invested equally heavy in Pure Skill. So what makes the MD case different? I'm going to hazard to guess that it's a numbers game. Too many folks have subscribed to MD to sweep them under the rug. I wonder what Google and Apple will think of this bias. It's been ignored repeatedly in this thread. ...so how about being fair and continue to attempt to placate us with a "it's complicated " and "it's still being investigated"....it would go a long way to showing these MD folks how good they are getting treated.

He already commented that they're turning their attention to PS after this is finalized.

Lester2332

Can someone clarify - When dexterity triggers a precision buff and then i hit the opponent, my champ will get a precision buff with a timer, now what if i evade again and hit again, will i get another precision buff or will the old one refresh? @Kabam Miike

The_judge_ruler

We spent money+units+masteries+iso to max out mistik champs and to optimize through th md. What about this? You are , just deciwed to lowdown so all this invesfment is pointless.wl gou refund, them??

The_judge_ruler

Sorry , about the typing mistakes, but i am using a cellphone and at the same time i am upsend, with kabam's attitude, on this issue!!

Lester2332

@Kabam Miike i am not the one who cries for rank down tickets but this change does affect mystic champs alot and the community deserves at least 1 mystic rank down ticket (Not a generic one). Just imagine summoners ranking up Morningstar to rank 5 just because anyone trying to evade her L2 would feed MD like crazy getting her back to 1 and a half bar of power and this change now renders her L2 almost useless now.

tonyj007

As members say its a nerf. to Mystic champions, so testing was carried out in June with members from community That was good, but it appears that the testing is still ongoing and a final decision has to be made about MD on certain .champions (Dormammu /Magik Juggernaut)

I do have MD maxed out , don't use MD r5 for a long time with new champions that counter Mystic champions (Blade Luke cage and Hulk-ragnarok). I do like that we are getting refund for all the units i used to max out MD. I did rank up Juggernaut and Dormammu for AW defence ( i don't use them in any part of the game only in arena) . Feels a complete waste time and items to have ranked up these champions.

I think it would be fair to have 1 RDT for 4 and 5 stars
.
Over the past few months this game has been unstable (overheating, network outages lag). I do hope that these changes don't make the game more unstable

its just my opinion, i really hope the game is better for these changes , we can test MD again, its going to feel like a new game

Speedbump

I just would like my loyalty that I spent on these mystic cores. That'd be over a million plus for sure...

Helicopter_dugdugdug

Kabam should have free reign to fix anything. People need to move on and not cling to a broken mechanic

GroundedWisdom

Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »

Kabam should have free reign to fix anything. People need to move on and not cling to a broken mechanic

My personal view is that it wasn't broken, perse. It reacted with Dexterity in such a way that fed it powerfully. Unfortunately, Dexterity is a necessary mechanic for basic and crucial gameplay. That created somewhat of a loophole, one that became very beneficial to Players in War Defense. People used it very advantageously, up until now. That made it extremely overpowered, to the point where it was a trap that fed Power and generated almost certain Kills because of basic functioning. As the game changed and evolved, it came time to revisit the relationship, especially with so many newer Champs with more Abilities to trigger it. I agree, though. You can't rely on one strategy forever. The game changes. It's been used for years. Just like all things that change, it's time to let it go and find new strategies. As for Ranking, it's pretty much any change that comes where people try an angle at Tickets. That defeats the whole purpose of making changes, not to mention contradicts the point of Ranking and earning more Resources to Rank, as well as diminishes what the real purpose of Tickets is. Start giving them for anything but changes to the Champs themselves, and they become a go-to for any change whatsoever to content. Point blank, when changes are made to content, we have to adjust as we are. When they were introduced, those changes altered the very way the entire game performs. Not at all the same situation. Not to mention a number of changes to Champs.

Nathanparker

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Capitão_DBO wrote: »

You guys used medusa autoblock as exemple, but I have a question about crossbones! If I can keep gain his fury buffs this will activate MD? I mean, if I can keep at least 1 fury buff. Or everytime a fury expires will be the same as today??
Thanks

That will still trigger Mystic Dispersion, as the Buffs are still expiring. There will be no change to that.

I used crossbones a lot before and one of his function is that he can reduce defensive abilities 20% for each fury active buff and when I had more than five and one of them expires (sometimes even four) the mystic dispersion would not trigger, this can still happen right? for crossbones to avoid triggering MD thanks to his defensive reduction abilities?

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Vinitlalka1988

How will these changes effect poise generation of Stark Spiderman......How will it feed MD?

Sugoi_Dubai

And I ranked Jugs to R4 for AW defense. He sucks in offense, and the only reason to rank him to R4 is AW defense with mystic despertion. Now he is totally useless. At least Dormammu can be used in offense as he is bleed immune and has good power control. What does Jug have? Now nothing

Thestoryteller6

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Hey Miike,

I saw you say that the team has no plans to provide rank down tickets at this time and that champion performance will be monitored (Dorm in particular). I have several follow up questions:

1) Did the team discuss the possibility of rank down tickets stemming from this change? If so, can you elaborate on why the team decided they felt they were unnecessary? And if not, will the team be willing to have that discussion if the users request it?

2) What is the threshold for rank down tickets currently? I feel like the meta shift with this issue would easily qualify with the previously defined threshold, but that's just my opinion and I understand others may feel differently. If the threshold had changed, please share that with us.

3) You mention monitoring champions. Please elaborate on how you are monitoring this (what metrics, etc), and for how long you will be conducting this monitoring. Furthermore, please be willing to share the results with the community. That level of transparency will certain help the community to better understand the team's thought process.

4) Please don't just look at Dorm. I fully expect Juggs to be a much less effective defender as a result of this change as well.

Thank you!

Hey there! These are some great questions, and I hope these answers shed a little light on the topics.

We have discussed the possibility of Rank Down Tickets, and have not decided for or against them. We're not going to give them out for this change independently of seeing how it actually affects these Champions. While we didn't see any significant/noticeable drops in performance in the Beta, we're going to keep an eye on this now that it will be out in the wild.

The threshold will always vary, and there is no "set" answer that we can give here. We always look at what the impact of the change will be, and examine our data on the topic. I can say that they are not for Meta Shifts. Those are things that will always happen, and are good for the game and need to continue to happen. Those are much more natural and something that we should always expect. This doesn't mean that you should always be wary of where/when you're spending your resources, but remember that what may be the top of the top right now, may not be in a few months or a year.

What we monitor will vary from situation to situation. For example, when looking at the effectiveness of Mystic Dispersion on a Defender, how often does it trigger? On a Defender in general, what is their win rate? How much HP do they end a fight with in comparison to how much they started with (Damage dealt vs Damage taken)? How long are their fights? For an attacker with Mystic Dispersion, how often are they able to make use of it? How often can they get their special attacks off? This is not a one size fits all solution. In an even more general sense, it will include usage rates, and which nodes they are placed on. For instance, are they being used more or less on a Boss Node or a Miniboss node? We have a lot of data collected on the effectiveness of these Champions in the old MD world, and will be comparing the two.

And we are definitely not just going to watch Dormammu! Juggernaut is one that you guys have mentioned, and we're going to make sure he's also very closely monitored. We're going to be watching all of our Mystic Champions in this new MD world!

Really good answer! It made everything a lot clearer and is quite reassuring as well. Even if RDTs aren't given at least I know what Kabam means by "we're looking at all mystic champs". Thanks!

Wally_Woofer

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Wally_Woofer wrote: »

@Kabam Miike , I have but one question, why is MD getting preferential treatment? I've seen your post stating that Pure skill is more effective at level 3 prior to changes in the game, and that levels 4 and 5 are now only of benefit against high armors champs. Sure, I could have enjoyed opening the last two, most-costly levels of MD and reaped the benefits, but upon having what is being done now, I'd have nobody to blame but myself. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! I think what is being done for MD is more than fair, and well beyond anything being requested for the last 18 months or longer by those of us that invested equally heavy in Pure Skill. So what makes the MD case different? I'm going to hazard to guess that it's a numbers game. Too many folks have subscribed to MD to sweep them under the rug. I wonder what Google and Apple will think of this bias. It's been ignored repeatedly in this thread. ...so how about being fair and continue to attempt to placate us with a "it's complicated " and "it's still being investigated"....it would go a long way to showing these MD folks how good they are getting treated.

He already commented that they're turning their attention to PS after this is finalized.

You succeeded at getting me to review all the previous pages, yet again, but I was not successful at locating this comment of which you speak. Perhaps you could lend a hand locating it?

Mitchell9595

I have been a long time user of the MD mastery, pretty much have been using it since I've started playing a few years ago. Since I believe this change is an improvement of the game and completely support the change of MD and dexterity, this has greatly impacted a large amount of the player base. A lot of people have put a lot of resources into such champions based of how they worked with MD weather they were used for attack or defence this change has cost people using awakening gems, sig stones and very valuable rank up resources. I am one of those affected by this change and honestly I took my 5* Dormammu to rank 5 only to use him for a defender in alliance war, I know even with this change he has potential to be a decent defender in the current state of the game, I still would not have used the resources I did just for a defence purpose that was going to be impacted the way it has been.

This change can't be referred to as a bug of any type, I do strongly believe that summoners should be given the option to have a rank down ticket ONLY for mystic champions that they have ranked up for this reason, even any awakening gems and sig stones that many people have used should have the option to be refunded to the player if they chose they would like to do that. All these resources are very valuable in this game and for a major change like this it can be a step in the right direction to show the community that yes this change has impacted a lot of people we are changing it for the better but hey this an option now if you would chose to take back any resource you have used on specific mystic champions.

Refunding the mastery cores and units that people have invested into the masteries was a very good idea and the community appreciates the effort to do such things I just hope you can reconsider the decision and apply it to all resources that have been invested into the champions.

winterthur

Wally_Woofer wrote: »

You succeeded at getting me to review all the previous pages, yet again, but I was not successful at locating this comment of which you speak. Perhaps you could lend a hand locating it?

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hi There,

As we said in the original post on the Mystic Dispersion/Dexterity Beta, after we are done with them, we are going to turn our attention to Pure Skill.

We don't have any more information on that right now, but as soon as we do, we'll let you guys know!

HahaNu

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Nothing about the Champs is beig changed at all. Masteries are additives. It's been an overpowered mechanic for a long time.

While I’m always against the issuance of RDTs, this is a significant change. While champs specifically were not changed, a lot of mystic champs were solely ranked due to their defensive power combined with MD. I mean would you really rsnkn5* Jugg to R4+ for offense? Kabam also said in multiple instances that MD and its relationship with dexterity was working as intended and they had no plans to change it. I personally don’t have a dog in this race but I can understand people wanting recompense for this.

The fundamental use for Tickets is changes to how the Champs themsleves are intended to perform. Nothing about the Champs is tied into MD. Meaning, take it away and the Champs work the same as they always have. It's an enhancement. One that's been way too overpowered. The Meta has changed, and it's now time to change it along with it. People may have Ranked for that relationship, but it's also served until now. The change is to the Mastery, not the Champs. As was stated, Ranking needs to be done with the awareness that it's a final decision, and what works now may not work the same down the road. The game is constantly evolving and changing.
If this was a direct change to the Champs themsleves, in a way that was significant and altered their fundamental functioning, I would have less of an argument. The fact is, nothing about the Champs themsleves is being changed, and it's been requested since before they even decided to finalize. Ranking isn't something that's done with the idea that you'll be able to go back. Fundamentally, I do not agree that they're warranted because literally no change to Champs is being made. Not even an exploit fix.

How is the champ working the same when you take MD out, I have Mstar at r4 placing her on sp2 unblockable + powergain 100% miniboss node, when they evade her sp2 they trigger 2 times dexterity she will get a new bar of power out of that, how can you say this is not different now??? We understand you that don`t want us to get RDT, I saw you all over the post saying the same thing, OK, we got your point, let us present ours. We want mystic RDT, I want my defenders (Mordo and Mstar at r3) don`t need them in defense anymore cause they won`t work as they used to, we didn`t knew they are going to make this changes when we rank them up. Mechanics of them is changed cause I use them only on defense, they don`t gain power by triggering dexterity it`s a huge difference! So don`t tell us when we should receive RDT or not, if you don`t have mystic defenders at r4/r5 good for you, we do and we are not ok with this change.

MRJyg

I ranked up JUGGERNAUT for alliance war
Now you tell me you gona change the Mystic Dispersion!!!!
THANK YOU KABAM!
I just want to say we need mystic rank down
ticket for return!
@Kabam Miike

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wpmgs2005

Kabam Mike, I disagree with your comments ‘We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way”
MD was never promoted has having a bug in the way it operated and therefore champions were ranked accordingly.
First you bring out a champion (Blade) that made all mystic defenders useless with relevant synergy and now making the changes to MD to further cement the uselessness of Mystic defenders!
I have spent significant time/money/purchasing and ranking up specific mystic champs to take advantage of MD5/5 yet you won’t consider compensation even if the rank down tickets could only be used on mystic champs..
I hope that this request will be taken into serious consideration for the community.

JimmyB

IsItthough wrote: »

Miike,

Why are you guys proceeding different this time around then you had with Willpower. It seems like a monumental waste of effort and time on your teams part to comb through that data to ensure who gets what. With Willpower you just gave out a blanket refund let everyone keep what they had and moved on. Just curious why you guys are decide to dedicate developers time to this, instead of them focusing on real in game issues.

What i would like to know is, why wasn't/isn't this refund done for the pure skill mastery? The mastery isn't what it once was after changes were made. No compensation was given for a broken mastery that still doesn't work like it once did. You also gave compensation for when you nerfed will power. So again i ask, why no compensation for the pure shill mastery. You say it works just as good at the 3rd lvl. But what about lvl 4 and lvl 5 that's not needed anymore. Where is the compensation for those two lvls?

BigDWSU

@Kabam Miike
It has been asked several times without an answer— what are you guys going to do about mystic cores obtained in the mystic daily quests? I spent several months farming those quests for those cores. If I am not refunded loyalty or units for those cores I won’t be able to re-rank my mystic dispersion after you guys nerf it. How are you guys addressing this?

Werewrym

There's a lot to think about here... First off, I feel very sorry for those with r4 Juggs. The only reason anyone would rank him to r4 was because of the way MD interacted with him. Without that power gain, he is a really easy champ to fight. For those with Dorm I am much less sorry, because he is still quite useful. I'll be honest, Dorm hardly ever scares me on defense because he really isn't that hard to fight even with MD. I almost solod a r5 dorm the other day with Magik just power locking him in the corner. I don't expect Kabam to see a big difference in the effectiveness of Dorm in AW. Most have a Blade to deal with him, or like me a Magik. I think that RDT should maybe be handed out based on players that have invested resources into champions like Juggs who have no usefulness outside of the way that MD interacts on war defense.

Mikespikeskull

@Kabam Miike Just for 100% clarity if a champion like Wolverine or X-23 currently have a regeneration buff on and a new one applies over top the old one (not stacking) does this not trigger mystic dispersion? Same for say StarLord with Fury or Juggernaught with unstoppable?

Stopmakingsense

I would add that ranking down alone only solves half the problem for many of us. Kabam also needs to allow us to unawaken mystic champions we used AGs on (especially generics).

The severity of this change is illustrated by the fact that a full refund is being offered for MD. The irony is that resources spent on MD isn't really the most pressing concern for many of us, since units and loyalty come in a relatively steady supply. The real concern is the mystic champions we ranked and awoke, because in many cases those were done with resources obtained through static content, which are effectively irreplaceable.

Harithsr

If i don't want to change my mastery (Mystic Dispersion) then is still i need to purchase and rank up mystic dispersion after Sep. 11th..?? or It will same as it is now...???

Tasty_Yum_Yums

@Kabam Miike

A few points I hope you can pass to the team to consider:

The ability to see the effects of the change to MD is somewhat low initially. In order to see the change with dexterity (which most of the player base is concerned about), we need to face a mystic champ in AW or arena that has MD. We cannot quest. This leaves a very random and low chance during the 6 days. I understand this may or may not have been the same setup for those in the Beta test, but most of us, including myself, were not in it. Can you share some of the data which shows how the mystic champs performed during the beta test?

Mechanics vs Performance. While the mechanics of mystic champs remain unchanged, the performance is expected to be significantly impacted. I will wait for the 6-day trial to confirm, but by text, all indications support mystics being nerfed. If data supports the performance being impacted, I do think a mystic class RDT is justified. 99% of the player base, not considering brand new players, do not rank up dorm and juggs for their mechanics. They are not ranked up for questing. They are ranked up for their performance capabilities for AWD, which will have been impacted by your decision to change the meta.

Tyy

bryce7m

Yes that's right concerning pure skill mastery, you should refund us at the same time