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Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread
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Gwenpool: Hi, guys!
Kabam: Another Global Buff to make every defender bleed immune!
Gwenpool: *facepalm*
I bet most of the haters here don’t even even play the game. Just sit in here and moan. Boring...
It's not a way to weaken teams. You have to look past that part. It just happens that the bleed global node was one of the first ones offered. If it was offered season 6 you might not even have this train of though.
Their goal as they stated is to get to a point where alliances set their own global nodes for the wars and not Kabam. This means there will be a list global nodes to choose from and set per war. I am sure there will be other features to add to this as well but they are trying to roll it out slowly. Who knows, if it doesn't work like they envision, maybe the whole idea goes away but we have it and they are going to analyze the data and take it from there.
Buhahaha... been playing for three years.
Nope, these changes are lukewarm at best.
It's called prestige chart, if you don't want to get kicked in high level alliances you can't r5 Venom. So yes you are forced to rank certain champs to stay competitive.
Actually, the subject of rank up did come up, and I and others pointed out that counterplay is significantly weakened by the fact that you can't respond to a "meta" change quickly through rank ups, and such counterplay moves are also extremely expensive. It is a problem that Kabam says they are investigating for future iterations of AW. I can't say in what way they might attempt to address this problem, but the subject of ways to temporarily and/or quickly rank defenders specifically for AW did come up as novel possibilities.
As to the general subject of "diversity" I think that term has a very bad taste from the previous iteration cycle of alliance war where I felt Kabam aimed for literal diversity in a misguided attempt to generate more counterplay. What Kabam actually wants (based on my discussions with them) is more diverse gameplay, not literally more diverse champion usage. They just don't articulate that very well. Diversity for its own sake is silly. But what they are trying to achieve is for players to think strategically about which champions they use, and for the number of valid options to be high enough that different players come up with a wide variety of options. That automatically means players will be using a more diverse set of champions, but not just for diversity's sake. It would be because you and I disagree over what the best choices are, and the game is sufficiently balanced that one of us isn't just automatically wrong.
They can't do that in one big jump so they are trying to crawl there slowly. They recognize that we don't have a lot of strategic options for placing defenders, so we're always placing the same ones. So everyone brings the same attackers to counter those defenders. And that "meta" gets locked in. The global nodes are intended to be a tiny step towards breaking that stalemate. Personally, I don't think the two they picked will do diddly squat. But the important thing isn't the specific node buffs they picked. The important thing is Kabam intends to evaluate and expand those buffs, and in particular they have signalled their intent to try to evolve that system into one that places more control into our hands rather than theirs. That's worth working towards.
They can give every player on offense 5 randomizes. It could add some extra strategy on placement and diversity. Defense should be able to see the buffs on all nodes prior to entering placement phase.
As for the people that keep saying kabam hasn’t forced anyone to rank people up I feel you are way off based. The over use of the same defenders in war has made it a must to have a unique set of champs. You know it, and are just being naive to suggest other wise.
You want me to bring another champ? Fine, i’ll need resources to rank up another, specifically T5B and T2a or I’ll need a rank down ticket. And I want my awakening gem and sig stones back.
The reality is I’ll probably have to still bring Blade because of his rank for the danger sense and for the Sparky synergy.
I have deep wounds at level 5. Which is obsolete for the next month. Where are the masteries to increase shock damage, or cold damage? And the equivalents of Coagulate and Suture? It’s time to expand that tree and give us more points to spend.
Want wars to be harder?
Activate the synergies in war defence.
Want more defender diversity?
Activate the synergies in war defence.
Want to level the playing field in Wars?
More T2a and T5B availability.
Please and thank you.
My history w kabam: lmao go ask around or look it up.
My stance on rdt: almost always in favor of them, loudly... To the point of forum bans.
Deep wounds at 5
Involved in the war changes discussion.
The overall reaction is a bit silly and way over the top yall. It feels like people either aren't reading or aren't understanding.
Slow down and put some thought into it.
Demanding rdt bc one season of war will change? What about after that season? They're supposed to reverse that or it's permanent? What about other game modes? You don't want those champs ranked up for anything?
Deep wounds refunds? You don't want dw in other game modes? Or after one month? They're supposed to give us units just so we have to unlock deep wounds again later?
I'm ALL for fairness to the players. I fought for aa specific rdt and caught a ban. I still think the players got the shaft on that. I don't even have a 5* aa. Just got a 4* a little while back. But aa-rdt was the right thing to do.
I have one r3 mystic I use on defense. I wouldn't rank her down if given a chance but have still been extremely vocal that mystic rdt are deserved.
I've fought for players the entire time I've played this game...to my own detrimental usually lol.
The bottom line is we won't like all the globals that get thrown out. I didn't like plenty of eq bosses. But challenges are necessary. Jmo, but players should enjoy the challenges... Because it's a game and if it wasn't challenging it would suck. The same thing over and over isn't fun. War isn't really fun. It's the same thing over and over. I'd much rather have some globals to deal with than more ramped up nodes or monotonous/aq-like wars.
The potential of this method is the good part. Bleed immune is gonna mess me up pretty bad but there's potential for actual fun to be had, and that's what should be exciting people.
I do have issues with some of this and voiced that in the discussion we had. I think true counterplay should be more of a focus but I also realize it takes steps to get there. I also realize the overall reaction here proves those steps are necessary lol. I think players need a way to quickly adapt to the globals when it comes to their roster as well as having fair warning about future globals. I don't think rdt would be the answer because those are permanent and things will change in a month. I feel like if wars are going to be more dynamic, then war rosters need to also be more dynamic somehow. I don't really know how that should work tho. The ability to swap a rank between 2 champs for a season? Idk. I hadn't thought of that particular idea during our discussions so I'll throw it out there and see what happens haha.
Either way, I get the strong feelings... I just see a lot of overreaction. I think if you step back and think thru your normal war path and the foes you usually face, you'll find some answers to what you should do. It's what I did when I had some time for it and it helped.
As it is now war is a joke, look at the 15 alliances that were docked for cheating! Guess what most ended up in plat 2 or better. But hey cheating gets them ahead meanwhile my alliance that wasn’t docked faced 3 of them in our last 4 wars. And guess what they cruised right by us. An alliance should never and I repeat never be docked war rating when caught cheating. It’s a slap in the face that they drop 500 points and beat the hell out of the lower alliance laughing all the way. As they collect 5 and 6 star shards. War is broken! And this isn’t a good fix!
Before I disparage your 3 pillars and completely misguided solutions, can I politely ask for you to eliminate the "pain point" of resetting the entire mastery tree when you need to make one small change? Please spend your time implementing a way to add or subtract single points, or give us presets. Thanks,
This is by far the best idea that I’ve ever read on this forum.
You Missed the point:
None of these changes address the fundamental flaws. Prestige, limited rank resources, and bad drop rates affect who people use a a lot more than anything else in the game.
ATTENTION DEVELOPERS - THIS IS BY FAR A MUCH BETTER IDEA FOR DIVERSITY AND REDUCING BOREDOM WITH GAME THAN ANYTHING YOU’VE EVER SUGGESTED.
Actually, it is you that missed the point entirely. Everything you said does not respond in any way to what I quoted, and then responded to. Whether the changes are *correct* or not, in your opinion, that doesn't change the fact that everyone agrees there are problems, including Kabam, and everyone agrees that it is Kabam's game and they are the only ones who can change it. Therefore, saying "its Kabam's fault" is a meaningless statement.
If you're going to reply to me, reply to what I said, and what I was responding to. I cannot address the point that exists in your head.
Not a lot here I could argue with tbh. We see eye to eye on a lot of stuff. I don't see where people would need to sit out tho. My options aren't great as far as my subs go but it'll be fun to try to work it out... And as seen by all the replies here, everyone else is in the same boat for the most part.
If you're trying to turn the game into Second Life, sure. But this completely destroys the notion of the game as a progressional game.
dude u never even read properly did you. these nodes will be only in the challenger and expert maps.
not in the low tier.
you are complaining about a non-issue.
infact i think this is a great thing and should reach lower down in the tiers than it does.
How is it useless?
I have 2 suggestions
Part 1 -
Why not have a map, where only the ability nodes like 100% more health, or 300% attack or 200% champion boosts are present?
Based on the tier of the team, they get a set of buffs/debuffs which they can apply as nodes as they please. They can only put 2 local nodes per point
So they can choose to make it as difficult or easy as they want.
There can be various strategies, make 1 path so difficult that the boss needs to be taken with a node. Or make multiple paths medium so everyone is tested and 1 slip up costs.
Have bleed immune after bleed immune after bleed immune to fatigue the same champ and get the kill. Or just place nice complementing ones like 100% bleed and heal block. Or Masochism and powergain.
Also, people can choose to put an enhanced bleed on a node that has say 100% champ boost or on 300% champ boost based on how much he values his defenders bleed.
So basically, u just make the nodes easy or difficult with health, attack or champ boosts, those being universal to that tier and let people put their own attributes like powergain or immune or poison or bleed or masochism. U provide a set of node attributes as per tier, a fixed number of attributes can be added to each node (say 2 each) and from the set of attributes, u can only use those in that tier and only once each. So if u put 1 powergain, u cannot put the same again even if there are 2 in the set. Also if u have 2 powergains, u can only put them on 2 nodes, and no more.
Part 2 -
Let the summoners design the paths too. And yes, bring back defender kills. Admit it, it was a mistake and no amount of attacker bonus is gonna cover for it. Give points to defender kills in reverse order -
1st death on a node , defending team gets 50 points. 2nd death, 75. 3rd death 100.
More deaths on a node give increasingly more points.
Variations of this sort of thing were suggested to Kabam in the early access. What was created and announced was considered a first small step towards potentially something more interesting down the road.
I'm also glad they're looking at Matchmaking manipulation. It's been one of my larger concerns. Between Collusion, Tanking, and Penalization, the Matchmaking system has been all over the place, and that's caused a detriment to many.
Glad to know these things are being considered.