Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just posted a brand new behind the scenes look at the future of Alliance Wars, including some new changes coming to Alliance Wars Season 5! Make sure you take a read of the post over on our Blog: https://playcontestofchampions.com/developer-thoughts-improving-alliance-wars/

The Rotating Global Buffs kick off on October 17th! Prepare yourselves!

Comments

Bodhizen

Kabam Miike wrote: »

TheVyrus wrote: »

I just do not understand the purpose of this thread. It was presented as an opportunity for the community to DISCUSS possible changes to the AW format. Clearly after 26 pages of conversation the general consensus was this change was not cared for by the players. While some people just screamed about being nerfed and wanting a hand out of some sort, there were many mature responses providing alternative ideas to accomplish the goals Kabam wanted.

So why invite the community to participate in this, if you were not going to listen and discuss with us? Clearly there were no intentions of listening, discussing, or changing the plans. I was really hoping, as this was discussed on the boards that Kabam would listen to their customers and at the very least delay their plans and look for an alternative. Instead we were once again ignored and made to waste our time and energy.

It is really unfortunate that it went down like this. I love the idea of including the community, but to do that we need to heard and acknowledged.

Hey there,

Remember, discussion threads are not meant to be only between Summoners and the Game team, but also for summoners to speak to each other! We are aware of how some of you feel, and have said that we're going to continue to monitor this, but we're not going to change anything until you've actually had a chance to experience the Global Rotating buffs.

Additionally, remember that while there are about 700 comments, that is far from meaning 700 different people sharing the same opinion, or even 700 different summoners commenting. This thread is a great example of a lot of back and forth between a small group of Summoners, and that's what Forums are for!

While it's not safe to say that "everybody liked this change", it's also an exaggeration to say that everybody was against it. Outside this thread, there were other threads started where the sentiment was not very close to what you see here. We've also received a lot of feedback via email and on other channels. We will continue to review all feedback we receive, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. The Contest is constantly evolving, and this is all a part of us working to keep things fresh while also constantly improving the experience!

Kabam merges threads all the time. If this thread was THE PLACE TO DISCUSS THE CHANGES OUTLINED BY THE MODERATION TEAM, SET UP BY THE MODERATION TEAM, why was greater deference paid to players who discussed this issue elsewhere? This feels fishy and does not give me faith in this process, let alone the "good faith" assumption of the response from Kabam.

TheVyrus

Kabam Miike wrote: »

TheVyrus wrote: »

I just do not understand the purpose of this thread. It was presented as an opportunity for the community to DISCUSS possible changes to the AW format. Clearly after 26 pages of conversation the general consensus was this change was not cared for by the players. While some people just screamed about being nerfed and wanting a hand out of some sort, there were many mature responses providing alternative ideas to accomplish the goals Kabam wanted.

So why invite the community to participate in this, if you were not going to listen and discuss with us? Clearly there were no intentions of listening, discussing, or changing the plans. I was really hoping, as this was discussed on the boards that Kabam would listen to their customers and at the very least delay their plans and look for an alternative. Instead we were once again ignored and made to waste our time and energy.

It is really unfortunate that it went down like this. I love the idea of including the community, but to do that we need to heard and acknowledged.

Hey there,

Remember, discussion threads are not meant to be only between Summoners and the Game team, but also for summoners to speak to each other! We are aware of how some of you feel, and have said that we're going to continue to monitor this, but we're not going to change anything until you've actually had a chance to experience the Global Rotating buffs.

Additionally, remember that while there are about 700 comments, that is far from meaning 700 different people sharing the same opinion, or even 700 different summoners commenting. This thread is a great example of a lot of back and forth between a small group of Summoners, and that's what Forums are for!

While it's not safe to say that "everybody liked this change", it's also an exaggeration to say that everybody was against it. Outside this thread, there were other threads started where the sentiment was not very close to what you see here. We've also received a lot of feedback via email and on other channels. We will continue to review all feedback we receive, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. The Contest is constantly evolving, and this is all a part of us working to keep things fresh while also constantly improving the experience!

I did not say all were against it, I stated the General Consensus. That would just indicate the majority and by reading the posts I feel that is accurate. I also feel that saying you are not going to change or listen until you do the change first goes right along with my original comments of "why present it to us one way and do it another way".

More importantly however are the emails and "other channels" of feedback you received. What is the email address and what are the other channels? I would love for a way to reach out more directly than the forums, where I run the risk of violating policies from time to time.

Manup456

Why do bleed immune nodes even say it if all are bleed immune? What's the point of ranking champs that cause bleed if we can't use them in AW? Why max deep wounds? This is plain stupid and only benefits kabam.

Kabam always talks about the game as if it was made for them. They make decisions on what they feel and want for the game. So why don't you guys cancel the game and play your selves? Nothing is done for the player base because we constantly flood the forum mad about pretty much every move you guys make because none of what the users ask for Is added.

If I could buy my way through the game like a lot of people do I wouldn't care. But it's not the situation I have to grind like a mad man to never get the champ I want or need to finally rank one and have it taken away.

What a shame, because if I didn't have so much time invested I would stop playing.

MoX108e

Kabam says they want us to use more of our rosters, and Instead they put a global
Node that takes away a options of champions off the table into taking in attack. The female boost node is : / should be a little toned down ... but instead of putting a node that takes champions off the table, that is something that is the opposite of what you say you want to do.... "us using more of our rosters" add class nodes that boost up different classes each war, itll open up people bring new champions knowing theyll be getting a boost.. but if you keep this bleed immune node and taking a options away from our rosters... then what ur saying is total Bs... you dont want us using all of our rosters because ur taking options away and not really opening a option to bring other champs...

Championcritic

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Nojokejaym

this bleed thing has no effect on me and for the female buff well ive been using females for a long time so this benefits my angela and quake

GroundedWisdom

TheVyrus wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

TheVyrus wrote: »

I just do not understand the purpose of this thread. It was presented as an opportunity for the community to DISCUSS possible changes to the AW format. Clearly after 26 pages of conversation the general consensus was this change was not cared for by the players. While some people just screamed about being nerfed and wanting a hand out of some sort, there were many mature responses providing alternative ideas to accomplish the goals Kabam wanted.

So why invite the community to participate in this, if you were not going to listen and discuss with us? Clearly there were no intentions of listening, discussing, or changing the plans. I was really hoping, as this was discussed on the boards that Kabam would listen to their customers and at the very least delay their plans and look for an alternative. Instead we were once again ignored and made to waste our time and energy.

It is really unfortunate that it went down like this. I love the idea of including the community, but to do that we need to heard and acknowledged.

Hey there,

Remember, discussion threads are not meant to be only between Summoners and the Game team, but also for summoners to speak to each other! We are aware of how some of you feel, and have said that we're going to continue to monitor this, but we're not going to change anything until you've actually had a chance to experience the Global Rotating buffs.

Additionally, remember that while there are about 700 comments, that is far from meaning 700 different people sharing the same opinion, or even 700 different summoners commenting. This thread is a great example of a lot of back and forth between a small group of Summoners, and that's what Forums are for!

While it's not safe to say that "everybody liked this change", it's also an exaggeration to say that everybody was against it. Outside this thread, there were other threads started where the sentiment was not very close to what you see here. We've also received a lot of feedback via email and on other channels. We will continue to review all feedback we receive, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. The Contest is constantly evolving, and this is all a part of us working to keep things fresh while also constantly improving the experience!

I did not say all were against it, I stated the General Consensus. That would just indicate the majority and by reading the posts I feel that is accurate. I also feel that saying you are not going to change or listen until you do the change first goes right along with my original comments of "why present it to us one way and do it another way".

More importantly however are the emails and "other channels" of feedback you received. What is the email address and what are the other channels? I would love for a way to reach out more directly than the forums, where I run the risk of violating policies from time to time.

There's a difference between having a discussion and voting for something. The purpose of a discussion is to share ideas and give feedback. That doesn't automatically mean they're going to cease going forward with something when the reaction is against it. Especially when there's no actual data to support the reactions. Not every disliked change can become a petition. The purpose of a discussion is to discuss a certain topic. Not necessarily to implement whatever people want. That doesn't mean the feedback isn't heard. It has to be applied to their own goals as well. I think you'll find reactions aren't always in tandem with the results of what the data shows. People tend to react a certain way in general, before things are even executed.

MattMan

They say they want to encourage use of different champions but moves like this bleed immune **** are the easy, lazy way out - making some champs “more useful” by making others worse instead of putting in the work to improve the champs nobody likes or uses.

Dhruvgajjar

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Take the 3 minute timer off AW attack nd I'm fine with every node being debuff immune. You don't have your points deducted in story quests nd eq. Don't know at what tier you play but at tier 1 against 5/65 defenders most of the deaths are by timing outs nd it's still considered a death. And every single death can determine outcome of the war.

Bodhizen

The point isn't that these debuffs (i.e. defender buffs) only affect us for 6 weeks; the point is that the global debuffs objectively add a layer of challenge to players that they must accommodate for. Some players have champions that can be used to offset this challenge factor while others do not. The global buff to female characters affects a more limited pool of attackers and promotes attack choices at Kabam's discretion, not at player discretion. It's great that Kamala Khan and She-Hulk get a boost for the next 6 weeks; it doesn't not make them trash champs. If that's who you were unfortunate to pull out of crystals... Sucks to be you. I guess 6 weeks from now, the buffs and debuffs might work in your favor. Maybe.

Al3x

Will you guys also fix matchmaking? Currently top alliances are avoiding each other just by matching at different timing..

some matching takes forever to find and the points difference between the opponents can be huge

Can I suggest that we have a registration phase? all alliances who would like to do war should register (including the number of bg war).
At the end of registration period, kabam system will do their matchmaking. The +- should only be displayed when attack phase start. This way alliances wont be able to fix matchmaking, they wont be able to avoid each other, the rating difference will not be so huge and no one will miss a war as long as they register within registration phase.

@Kabam Miike hopefully you guys can consider this.

AndyBaron7

Can I get some rank down tickets with this junk you put into war and can I get free mastery alter also please. LOL

AndyBaron7

It’s pretty clear to me that all
Game changes are usually designed around killing players and not been diverse. Or this change will do is make war harder on all without women and make every fight harder to combat. Kabam removed slashed tyres few season ago like they were been nice it’s only because the vast majority simply left the node. You simply won’t get people to use junk and all bleed immune creates is a war full of defence that usually bleed helps to beat. Champs like medusa boss champs like magik imiw ect ect. you will get lots of non diversity in defence full of domino
Modok imiw medusa km ect ect I’m guessing this was the designers idea. And I’m guessing this test is to see how many bite back lol. Not smart in my eyes upsets customers.

DarthPhal

Demonzfyre

Bodhizen wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

TheVyrus wrote: »

I just do not understand the purpose of this thread. It was presented as an opportunity for the community to DISCUSS possible changes to the AW format. Clearly after 26 pages of conversation the general consensus was this change was not cared for by the players. While some people just screamed about being nerfed and wanting a hand out of some sort, there were many mature responses providing alternative ideas to accomplish the goals Kabam wanted.

So why invite the community to participate in this, if you were not going to listen and discuss with us? Clearly there were no intentions of listening, discussing, or changing the plans. I was really hoping, as this was discussed on the boards that Kabam would listen to their customers and at the very least delay their plans and look for an alternative. Instead we were once again ignored and made to waste our time and energy.

It is really unfortunate that it went down like this. I love the idea of including the community, but to do that we need to heard and acknowledged.

Hey there,

Remember, discussion threads are not meant to be only between Summoners and the Game team, but also for summoners to speak to each other! We are aware of how some of you feel, and have said that we're going to continue to monitor this, but we're not going to change anything until you've actually had a chance to experience the Global Rotating buffs.

Additionally, remember that while there are about 700 comments, that is far from meaning 700 different people sharing the same opinion, or even 700 different summoners commenting. This thread is a great example of a lot of back and forth between a small group of Summoners, and that's what Forums are for!

While it's not safe to say that "everybody liked this change", it's also an exaggeration to say that everybody was against it. Outside this thread, there were other threads started where the sentiment was not very close to what you see here. We've also received a lot of feedback via email and on other channels. We will continue to review all feedback we receive, and appreciate you sharing your thoughts. The Contest is constantly evolving, and this is all a part of us working to keep things fresh while also constantly improving the experience!

Kabam merges threads all the time. If this thread was THE PLACE TO DISCUSS THE CHANGES OUTLINED BY THE MODERATION TEAM, SET UP BY THE MODERATION TEAM, why was greater deference paid to players who discussed this issue elsewhere? This feels fishy and does not give me faith in this process, let alone the "good faith" assumption of the response from Kabam.

@Bodhizen they merge threads to keep forums organized. Multiple people will start same topic threads and junk of the pages and nothing gets done. This thread is labeled a discussion thread for a reason. Everyone thinks they need their own thread on every topic instead of contributing to a existing thread. Nothing fishy at all.

Infineight

Now, one will require a phd to win aw season 5

Infineight

But the thing is my top roster does have champs like killmonger, magik, ghost rider etc.

Infineight

So now it's golden age for chaMPs like electro, sentinels , nebula red hulk and other Shock,poison and incernate champs. And thank God I have them all

mostlyharmlessn

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Well the issue here is that it is for the full season. It's not a rotating buff as is it is called.

Many ranked up champs that use bleed and invested heavily into Deep Wounds for the advantage in AW just to get slapped in the face by a global node that neutered those champs. Like I've said it wouldn't be too bad if it was on every other war.

Demonzfyre

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Well the issue here is that it is for the full season. It's not a rotating buff as is it is called.

Many ranked up champs that use bleed and invested heavily into Deep Wounds for the advantage in AW just to get slapped in the face by a global node that neutered those champs. Like I've said it wouldn't be too bad if it was on every other war.

Rotating per season. New globals each season.

Red_barron

@Kabam Miike wrote in an earlier message on this post
“When we said the intention of introducing Rotating Global Buffs was not to find a way to increase difficulty, we truly meant that”
I have pointed out on this thread before the changes took place that the nerf of bleed champs far outweigh the buff of female champs.
As this is there game they would be aware of this and even more so that I pointed it out. After the new aw started I accused kabam of telling lies and for this I was given a warning and placed in jail under section 11
11- Spreading conspiracy theories, false information, and rumors is not permitted
I messaged back to say this was untrue and based on fact to which no reply was made in over 24 hours.
So @Kabam Miike ect on the most recent information I can find ( not totally accurate but extremely close) here are your facts
42 bleed champs ( 8 female )
28 female champs
If the buff cancels out the nerf that leaves
34 bleed
20 female
So 70% more bleed champs nerfed than female champs buffed
Plain to see the odds are stacked in your favour.
If you can’t take fact and criticism don’t try and f us over with your poor excuses and lies.

mostlyharmlessn

Demonzfyre wrote: »

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Well the issue here is that it is for the full season. It's not a rotating buff as is it is called.

Many ranked up champs that use bleed and invested heavily into Deep Wounds for the advantage in AW just to get slapped in the face by a global node that neutered those champs. Like I've said it wouldn't be too bad if it was on every other war.

Rotating per season. New globals each season.

It still seems to be missing the point of rotating. If that is truly the intent it would be after every AW or a week of AW not a full season.

Their own statement, no two AW's should be the same. Doing the buff for the entire season means that the entire season will be the same.

Demonzfyre

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Well the issue here is that it is for the full season. It's not a rotating buff as is it is called.

Many ranked up champs that use bleed and invested heavily into Deep Wounds for the advantage in AW just to get slapped in the face by a global node that neutered those champs. Like I've said it wouldn't be too bad if it was on every other war.

Rotating per season. New globals each season.

It still seems to be missing the point of rotating. If that is truly the intent it would be after every AW or a week of AW not a full season.

Their own statement, no two AW's should be the same. Doing the buff for the entire season means that the entire season will be the same.

@mostlyharmlessn it literally says in the 2nd paragraph of the section about the nodes that its for season 5 and the 2 weeks prior. You are reading to much into what is being said. They spelled it out for you quite clearly several times.

mostlyharmlessn

Demonzfyre wrote: »

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

mostlyharmlessn wrote: »

Championcritic wrote: »

Again, bleed immune global buffs are only for one season. You'll be able to wreck with bleed champs again next season. Why not bring out that 2/25 or 3/35 non-bleed champ and give yourself a challenge in war for once? You guys that have explored act 5 always said you wanted a new challenge right? here's your chance.

Well the issue here is that it is for the full season. It's not a rotating buff as is it is called.

Many ranked up champs that use bleed and invested heavily into Deep Wounds for the advantage in AW just to get slapped in the face by a global node that neutered those champs. Like I've said it wouldn't be too bad if it was on every other war.

Rotating per season. New globals each season.

It still seems to be missing the point of rotating. If that is truly the intent it would be after every AW or a week of AW not a full season.

Their own statement, no two AW's should be the same. Doing the buff for the entire season means that the entire season will be the same.

@mostlyharmlessn it literally says in the 2nd paragraph of the section about the nodes that its for season 5 and the 2 weeks prior. You are reading to much into what is being said. They spelled it out for you quite clearly several times.

No I'm making a statement as to what I think would be a better way to do this.

RagamugginGunner

The bleed immunity is annoying but you can work around it. It's honestly just lazy and I'm sure took almost zero thought to add. My worry is what are they going to pus in next season after seeing that people are still going to use the r5 Blades?

I'm also still waiting to hear how adding 5 new mini-bosses and a global node doesn't make AW harder.

Red_barron

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

The bleed immunity is annoying but you can work around it. It's honestly just lazy and I'm sure took almost zero thought to add. My worry is what are they going to pus in next season after seeing that people are still going to use the r5 Blades?

I'm also still waiting to hear how adding 5 new mini-bosses and a global node doesn't make AW harder.

I think the bigger issue is the changes to the game but not changing rewards to suit and given they made this chat and then refused to listen to us, it’s frustating knowing that they hardly listen and all we see is increase dificulty and no reward increase.
We have a voice but if no one is listening then it’s worthless just another convo between players

RagamugginGunner

So after putting in some more thought and listening to the UMCOC podcast this morning, here is how I see things playing out.

Bleed immune was the easiest and laziest way to counter Blade. Female buff is an easy and lazy way to raise the use of some other attackets. They'll continue this practice of nerfing the top attackers and buffing underused attackers for two or three more seasons. They're not going to invent buffs/nerfs to target specific champs, which is why they'll just pick one from their bag of nodes. This will inevitably hurt many more champs than that one top attacker that they're trying to nerf and will lead to more uproar from the community that has those champs ranked up (basically everyone with a r5 AA right now).

A few buffs they could use would be; Villains, Avengers and X-men. Those are fine and won't drastically change the game very much.

The nerfs is where things get "interesting". IMO, the next 3 top champs to nerf in AW are Corvis, Starky and Void. The simplese global nodes for those guys are; Prove Yourself, Resistor and Tranquility. These keep those specific champs in check while also nerfing tons of lesser values champs (remember those guys with r5 AA?).

So in about 6 months, when we've all live beta'd these nodes and buffs we're now able to add the "exciting" goal of selecting the buffs and nerf on a war to war basis, to "keep things fun and interesting". In reality, every war is going to be exactly the same. Over the course of the testing we'll all figure out which nerf is best for defenders and which buff counters that the best. Everyone will just pick the best defense, because they don't know who their opponent has for attackers, which means everyone is going to pick the same buff counter.

In essence, nothing will actually change except for AW becoming harder and more stressful while the rewards stay the same.

Vdh2008

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

In essence, nothing will actually change except for AW becoming harder and more stressful while the rewards stay the same.

This means more $$$ in Kabam's accounts from pots & revives, so that's mission accomplished from their POV.

DTMelodicMetal

@Raganator 100% Offensive AAR for tech champs like we got for last month's Magneto event quest boss could hurt Sparky more than Resistor

Sarmstro

Statement from a member of my alliance who is not part of the forums:

I have seen some guys are saying baggers to those players who are asking for rankdown tickets. imo they are stupid, misinformed, or kabam employees sent into the forums to make the rank down requests have opposing opinions. They do not understand the meta of the game.

I have one question - how many champs has kabam launched in the past 4 months? Where do you suppose the majority of players would obtain material available to R4 those all? That's why we need rankdown tickets. The majority of summoners are in alliances where they obtain less than a third of one tier four catalyst a week. It would take more than 12 weeks of play to obtain the resources to r4 a new champion.

Which champs you would like to rankup?The best champ you have. Just imagine that the champs main ability is bleed and kabam suddenly comes with aw changes like bleed immune global node. Some great persons are doing comments that you should have plan to rank up your champs. My question is does kabam have plan for season 8? If yes, then they should tell us. Kabam is creating tough new champs they why they are making us to keep our old high ranked champs? I have R4 Mordo.that rankup was done almost 1 year ago. I have WS at R4. that rankup was 1.5 years ago.why they are not allowing us to refresh our roster? I have killmonger and Corvus at r3.new champs at R3 and old champs at r4. I want to inform those great minds that if you want to stay in higher tier alliance then prestige is needed. You just can't sit waiting, otherwise you will be kicked. You have to do rankup s to get enough prestige. Rank down tickets are the easiest solution to this.

The game will be boring if you can't rankup new champs. Why we should waste units to get new champs if we don't have enough rankup resources? Kabam should slow down to launch new champs or should allow us to refresh our roster or should make rankup material more available. More available means not Labyrinth 2, but the opportunity to have access to the rank up materials to bring some of the great new champs into competitive play.

The game is evolving at the suggestion of kabam, in order to bring about more diverse play, but there is nothing being done to allow players to evolve their rosters. This puts the majority of summoners at a disadvantage. Please do something to give players more control in adapting their rosters to meet the new demands of the contest.