"We're going to continue to keep a close eye on all Mystic Champions" after MD changes

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Comments

  • Midnite93Midnite93 Posts: 3,230 ★★★★★
    edited December 2018
    I would actually like a rank up ticket for a change and class related masteries are not worth investing in.. higher tier alliances will anyways bypass defenders with skill and the right combination of champions. I never rank champs purely for defense and would rather invest in champs who are all rounder so I can use them in either attack or defense.
  • MissMissyMissMissy Posts: 78
    ManChild wrote: »
    There was compensation given. MD was refunded completely. Does no one care about that?

    Sure we did receive compensation for MD masteries. But the only way to find out if the masteries and our champs were still viable were to reinvest in the mastery. 🤦🏼‍♀️

  • Epsilon3Epsilon3 Posts: 1,138 ★★★
    Grounded buddy… the DEXTERITY MD interaction ALONE heavily impacted Juggy, UC, and even Dorm.

    We won’t even get INTO how it effected Mephisto making him a “locked” range fight of incineration or a dashing retreat filled with power gain on the enemy. Heck MS SP2 is now easier instead of just cheap power.

    Especially with Juggs and UC (ESPECIALLY UC) there’s reason for rank downs or rank ups.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Posts: 1,985 ★★★
    It was changed to stop punishing evades.There won't be many who disagree with that reasoning.

    Instead of just removing that interaction we end up with a mastery nerf and a double whammy hit on certain nodes that have nothing to do with MD at all.

    Don't hold your breath waiting for a response regarding effects to champions, I'm sure I heard the same thing after 12.0.

    To date I don't recall any further info on DS etc
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,034 ★★★★★
    If there was a need, they would have been given by now. Fact is, those Champs don't depend on an enhancement to function properly.

    Dang, so much hate for such a logical comment. You go, GW! 🤣

    It's an uncomfortable truth. There's a great deal of confusion about how people were using the Champs with MD, and how the Champs are intended to perform separately. They aren't dependent on MD at all. No Champ is designed that way. They're not required to have MD to function properly. What it did was generate mass amounts of Kills in War because it enhanced their Power Gain. For some reason, people are mistaking that with their basic fucntioning.
    Probably also worth pointing out that monitoring the Champs afterwards doesn't necessarily entail making sure they get the same amount of Kills. However, people tend to hate on here when they don't like the answer.

    Masteries and boosts are handicaps. The champ can do fine without them, people just need to figure out how. I don't have Dexterity and my champs destroy my level of content. Take Blade for example. He is great on his own. His Regen is just a happy bonus. And yes, we have both seen our fair share of unnecessary hate. No logic to it. It just happens 🤷‍♂️

    Meh. I've developed thick skin. Lol. Can't take things personally. It's The Internet. Lol.
  • ManChildManChild Posts: 608 ★★★
    Masteries and boosts are handicaps.........

    Lol try not having masteries or boosts and go jump in a tier 2 war.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,171 ★★★★★
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,171 ★★★★★
    If there was a need, they would have been given by now. Fact is, those Champs don't depend on an enhancement to function properly.

    Dang, so much hate for such a logical comment. You go, GW! 🤣

    It's an uncomfortable truth. There's a great deal of confusion about how people were using the Champs with MD, and how the Champs are intended to perform separately. They aren't dependent on MD at all. No Champ is designed that way. They're not required to have MD to function properly. What it did was generate mass amounts of Kills in War because it enhanced their Power Gain. For some reason, people are mistaking that with their basic fucntioning.
    Probably also worth pointing out that monitoring the Champs afterwards doesn't necessarily entail making sure they get the same amount of Kills. However, people tend to hate on here when they don't like the answer.

    Masteries and boosts are handicaps. The champ can do fine without them, people just need to figure out how. I don't have Dexterity and my champs destroy my level of content. Take Blade for example. He is great on his own. His Regen is just a happy bonus. And yes, we have both seen our fair share of unnecessary hate. No logic to it. It just happens 🤷‍♂️

    Masteries are handicaps? Let me know when you explore Act 5, Uncollected EQ, LOL, etc., without these handicaps that people just need to figure out how to play without. I respectfully submit that you yourself will never figure out this method.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,171 ★★★★★
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.

    If they're average Defenders, and they're made better with the Mastery, they're still average Defenders. Yes, they have said some Champs are better on Defense than others. The Champs. Not the Champs who must have certain Masteries. That's totally elective. Doesn't mean those Champs required people to Rank them, then Rank MD. That was a choice. A choice people made to get overpowered Kills in War. The fact that people used it advantageously for so long and are still claiming to be owed something when it was clearly too powerful, boggles my mind.
    Either way, I do not believe I am wrong at all. Been wrong before. Not this time. No matter how you manipulate the facts, the Champs are not dependent on MD to function properly. People just maximized it for so long that they started believing that's how they were meant to function.

    Nobody would take an average defender who isn’t good on offense to 5/65. Masteries can’t be separated from what makes a defender good. Have you ever fought EQ Medusa? Not that hard. Autoblock isn’t a problem unless parry is involved. More often than not the aw boss is Medusa because of the way parry works with her ability. If Kabam decided that parry was no longer a viable mastery going forward Medusa would become just another defender. She would still have uses, unlike many of the mystic champs, but the reason many people ranked her would be gone. Your overpowered point is grasping at straws. It was working as intended and mystic wars were over before the nerf. Kabam thought it might be a problem and needed monitoring. That was specifically with regard to how mystic champs did in war defense after the nerf. Apparently Kabam thought that the nerf might make some champs less viable and deserving of rank downs even if you in your grounded wisdom can’t see it.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,034 ★★★★★
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.

    If they're average Defenders, and they're made better with the Mastery, they're still average Defenders. Yes, they have said some Champs are better on Defense than others. The Champs. Not the Champs who must have certain Masteries. That's totally elective. Doesn't mean those Champs required people to Rank them, then Rank MD. That was a choice. A choice people made to get overpowered Kills in War. The fact that people used it advantageously for so long and are still claiming to be owed something when it was clearly too powerful, boggles my mind.
    Either way, I do not believe I am wrong at all. Been wrong before. Not this time. No matter how you manipulate the facts, the Champs are not dependent on MD to function properly. People just maximized it for so long that they started believing that's how they were meant to function.

    Nobody would take an average defender who isn’t good on offense to 5/65. Masteries can’t be separated from what makes a defender good. Have you ever fought EQ Medusa? Not that hard. Autoblock isn’t a problem unless parry is involved. More often than not the aw boss is Medusa because of the way parry works with her ability. If Kabam decided that parry was no longer a viable mastery going forward Medusa would become just another defender. She would still have uses, unlike many of the mystic champs, but the reason many people ranked her would be gone. Your overpowered point is grasping at straws. It was working as intended and mystic wars were over before the nerf. Kabam thought it might be a problem and needed monitoring. That was specifically with regard to how mystic champs did in war defense after the nerf. Apparently Kabam thought that the nerf might make some champs less viable and deserving of rank downs even if you in your grounded wisdom can’t see it.

    You literally just said the same thing I did and talked in circles. I said Champs that are average Defenders were still average, whether the Mastery enhanced them or not. Your argument waa that people Ranked the Champs because MD made them viable. That's not a Champ issue, that's a Mastery issue. It's also not cause to provide Tickets because people Ranked for their own strategy. I can Rank AA for Deep Wounds but if they change Deep Wounds, I'm not owed the means to change because I make the choice to Rank whatever Champs I want and apply whatever enhancements I want.
    It is not grasping at straws. It's quite plain and factual, actually. They said they would monitor them closely, sure. That didn't mean they thought anything, other than they wanted to see how they perform. Here we are months later, and people are still waiting for Tickets for them. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING about those Champs depends on MD by design.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,034 ★★★★★
    Been saying it since the news came out, and people still don't hear me.
  • Archit_Tandon498Archit_Tandon498 Posts: 317 ★★
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.

    If they're average Defenders, and they're made better with the Mastery, they're still average Defenders. Yes, they have said some Champs are better on Defense than others. The Champs. Not the Champs who must have certain Masteries. That's totally elective. Doesn't mean those Champs required people to Rank them, then Rank MD. That was a choice. A choice people made to get overpowered Kills in War. The fact that people used it advantageously for so long and are still claiming to be owed something when it was clearly too powerful, boggles my mind.
    Either way, I do not believe I am wrong at all. Been wrong before. Not this time. No matter how you manipulate the facts, the Champs are not dependent on MD to function properly. People just maximized it for so long that they started believing that's how they were meant to function.

    Nobody would take an average defender who isn’t good on offense to 5/65. Masteries can’t be separated from what makes a defender good. Have you ever fought EQ Medusa? Not that hard. Autoblock isn’t a problem unless parry is involved. More often than not the aw boss is Medusa because of the way parry works with her ability. If Kabam decided that parry was no longer a viable mastery going forward Medusa would become just another defender. She would still have uses, unlike many of the mystic champs, but the reason many people ranked her would be gone. Your overpowered point is grasping at straws. It was working as intended and mystic wars were over before the nerf. Kabam thought it might be a problem and needed monitoring. That was specifically with regard to how mystic champs did in war defense after the nerf. Apparently Kabam thought that the nerf might make some champs less viable and deserving of rank downs even if you in your grounded wisdom can’t see it.

    You literally just said the same thing I did and talked in circles. I said Champs that are average Defenders were still average, whether the Mastery enhanced them or not. Your argument waa that people Ranked the Champs because MD made them viable. That's not a Champ issue, that's a Mastery issue. It's also not cause to provide Tickets because people Ranked for their own strategy. I can Rank AA for Deep Wounds but if they change Deep Wounds, I'm not owed the means to change because I make the choice to Rank whatever Champs I want and apply whatever enhancements I want.
    It is not grasping at straws. It's quite plain and factual, actually. They said they would monitor them closely, sure. That didn't mean they thought anything, other than they wanted to see how they perform. Here we are months later, and people are still waiting for Tickets for them. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING about those Champs depends on MD by design.

    You literally just don’t get it. Masteries are part of the game and can make some champs worth ranking that otherwise wouldn’t be. Medusa’s ability mentions the parry mastery lol. The fact that she is the same when you get her as she would be if they ended the parry mastery is irrelevant. You can’t say that champs work the way they work apart from masteries. Masteries are part of the equation when they are developed and part of the basis for ranking.

    Oh no, if you provide this logic then at a later time if parry gets nerfed, this guy gonna come up and say you used it for 4+ years, you reaped your rewards now go home.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 631 ★★★
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.

    If they're average Defenders, and they're made better with the Mastery, they're still average Defenders. Yes, they have said some Champs are better on Defense than others. The Champs. Not the Champs who must have certain Masteries. That's totally elective. Doesn't mean those Champs required people to Rank them, then Rank MD. That was a choice. A choice people made to get overpowered Kills in War. The fact that people used it advantageously for so long and are still claiming to be owed something when it was clearly too powerful, boggles my mind.
    Either way, I do not believe I am wrong at all. Been wrong before. Not this time. No matter how you manipulate the facts, the Champs are not dependent on MD to function properly. People just maximized it for so long that they started believing that's how they were meant to function.

    Nobody would take an average defender who isn’t good on offense to 5/65. Masteries can’t be separated from what makes a defender good. Have you ever fought EQ Medusa? Not that hard. Autoblock isn’t a problem unless parry is involved. More often than not the aw boss is Medusa because of the way parry works with her ability. If Kabam decided that parry was no longer a viable mastery going forward Medusa would become just another defender. She would still have uses, unlike many of the mystic champs, but the reason many people ranked her would be gone. Your overpowered point is grasping at straws. It was working as intended and mystic wars were over before the nerf. Kabam thought it might be a problem and needed monitoring. That was specifically with regard to how mystic champs did in war defense after the nerf. Apparently Kabam thought that the nerf might make some champs less viable and deserving of rank downs even if you in your grounded wisdom can’t see it.

    You literally just said the same thing I did and talked in circles. I said Champs that are average Defenders were still average, whether the Mastery enhanced them or not. Your argument waa that people Ranked the Champs because MD made them viable. That's not a Champ issue, that's a Mastery issue. It's also not cause to provide Tickets because people Ranked for their own strategy. I can Rank AA for Deep Wounds but if they change Deep Wounds, I'm not owed the means to change because I make the choice to Rank whatever Champs I want and apply whatever enhancements I want.
    It is not grasping at straws. It's quite plain and factual, actually. They said they would monitor them closely, sure. That didn't mean they thought anything, other than they wanted to see how they perform. Here we are months later, and people are still waiting for Tickets for them. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING about those Champs depends on MD by design.

    Again, MD is not a general mastery, it is MYSTIC DISPERSION, that means for MYSTIC CHAMPIONS. So YES, since you can't split those 2 factors, Mystic Champions ARE dependent on MD and VICE VERSA! And since it's a fact that you cannot invest in a specific mastery without spending resources on champions, your argument is completely invalid.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 4,137 ★★★★★
    I just feel like Blade took out 95% effectiveness and the remaining 5% was taken out by this MD change. Blade would have been more of a reason for RDT than MD, tbh.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,034 ★★★★★
    Badrose wrote: »
    It didn't affect them at all. It affected how they performed WITH it. It's an additive. The aspect that was "working as intended" was changed. That was the Mastery. For that, they compensated. The Champs aren't a part of that.

    This is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Kabam acknowledges that some champs are good for offense and some are good for defense. If you rank a defensive champ and the defense part is nerfed, the fact that they perform the same way on offense is not worth mentioning. Mystic D made some mystic champs good defenders that otherwise would be average defenders. These same champs are not worth ranking for their offensive prowess for most players. Nerfing mystic D removed the viability for which these champs were ranked. It wasn't an "additive". It was the sole reason why some of these champs were ranked. I would say that this is as wrong as you have ever been, but at this point that would be hyperbole.

    If they're average Defenders, and they're made better with the Mastery, they're still average Defenders. Yes, they have said some Champs are better on Defense than others. The Champs. Not the Champs who must have certain Masteries. That's totally elective. Doesn't mean those Champs required people to Rank them, then Rank MD. That was a choice. A choice people made to get overpowered Kills in War. The fact that people used it advantageously for so long and are still claiming to be owed something when it was clearly too powerful, boggles my mind.
    Either way, I do not believe I am wrong at all. Been wrong before. Not this time. No matter how you manipulate the facts, the Champs are not dependent on MD to function properly. People just maximized it for so long that they started believing that's how they were meant to function.

    Nobody would take an average defender who isn’t good on offense to 5/65. Masteries can’t be separated from what makes a defender good. Have you ever fought EQ Medusa? Not that hard. Autoblock isn’t a problem unless parry is involved. More often than not the aw boss is Medusa because of the way parry works with her ability. If Kabam decided that parry was no longer a viable mastery going forward Medusa would become just another defender. She would still have uses, unlike many of the mystic champs, but the reason many people ranked her would be gone. Your overpowered point is grasping at straws. It was working as intended and mystic wars were over before the nerf. Kabam thought it might be a problem and needed monitoring. That was specifically with regard to how mystic champs did in war defense after the nerf. Apparently Kabam thought that the nerf might make some champs less viable and deserving of rank downs even if you in your grounded wisdom can’t see it.

    You literally just said the same thing I did and talked in circles. I said Champs that are average Defenders were still average, whether the Mastery enhanced them or not. Your argument waa that people Ranked the Champs because MD made them viable. That's not a Champ issue, that's a Mastery issue. It's also not cause to provide Tickets because people Ranked for their own strategy. I can Rank AA for Deep Wounds but if they change Deep Wounds, I'm not owed the means to change because I make the choice to Rank whatever Champs I want and apply whatever enhancements I want.
    It is not grasping at straws. It's quite plain and factual, actually. They said they would monitor them closely, sure. That didn't mean they thought anything, other than they wanted to see how they perform. Here we are months later, and people are still waiting for Tickets for them. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING about those Champs depends on MD by design.

    Again, MD is not a general mastery, it is MYSTIC DISPERSION, that means for MYSTIC CHAMPIONS. So YES, since you can't split those 2 factors, Mystic Champions ARE dependent on MD and VICE VERSA! And since it's a fact that you cannot invest in a specific mastery without spending resources on champions, your argument is completely invalid.

    No. They're not dependent on MD. You do not need MD to use Mystic Champs. There does not exist a Mystic Champ that requires MD to use it. For some reason, people aren't accepting that fact. It's like strategy has become necessity.
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