New Champions Getting Overcomplicated

The classic champs in Contest of Champions are so simple and easy to understand... Black Widow, Hulk, Thor, Wolverine, etc... most of them just have one thing they do or are good at. And it's not so complex understanding how to play them or play against them.

The new champions.... like Vulture, Stark Spidey, Yondu, Nebula, Psylocke, Archangel... geez.. they are so complicated. Reading over their profile takes 10 minutes and when you're done you still might not understand how they really work. Or if you do... you will soon forget because you can't remember exactly what all their specials do because they're all different and do weird things and require you to set them up in some way.

This can be fun... but I just feel like you are overdoing it at this point. With over 100 characters to learn and keep track of, I think at this point, or in the very near future, coming in to this game as a noob is going to be so overwhelming as to be off-putting.

I recently was talking to someone about Dormammu and they were surprised to find out that Dormammu can regenerate. I started walking him through the process of getting to this regen... which takes (let me count) 5 different steps to get there. Half way through the explanation they just gave up and said nevermind.

Just a suggestion: perhaps new champions can be a little simplified and streamlined? Cool new abilities like Stark Spidey's taunt are definitely welcome but rather than trying to make every new character a swiss army knife (that you need an instruction manual to open) why not just focus on one or two things that they can do really well and make those abilities stronger and easier to use? That's how all of the old characters work.

Comments

  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 1,461 ★★★★
    It's called adapting, Kabam is finding new ways to add complexities to the game by making champions require more skill to use. I get the frustration having to learn it and master it, but in the end it just creates newer, stronger champs that unlock harder content for you.
  • IvankaIvanka Posts: 236
    I know what it is and why they are doing it. At the same time, you don't see my point about this growth eventually making the game totally inaccessible to new players?

    When I first started playing 7 months ago... there were a lot of champs... but most of them were really simple. They had only just recently started releasing the really complex ones like Dormammu and Hood when I was still in the Intermediate bracket. (Cable and Gwenpool had come out the month before... they were also fairly complicated but still not crazy complicated) I'm just thinking about what it's going to be like joining this game as a noob six months or twelve months from now... when there are 24 or more new champions to try and learn and each one is so convoluted. I think it would be too much. Even learning them 2 at a time month to month is a bit of a challenge.

    Just thinking long-term and thinking about plans to grow the userbase... I do think it would be better if new champs were more streamlined. Maybe you disagree.
  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 1,461 ★★★★
    I know what it is and why they are doing it. At the same time, you don't see my point about this growth eventually making the game totally inaccessible to new players?

    When I first started playing 7 months ago... there were a lot of champs... but most of them were really simple. They had only just recently started releasing the really complex ones like Dormammu and Hood when I was still in the Intermediate bracket. (Cable and Gwenpool had come out the month before... they were also fairly complicated but still not crazy complicated) I'm just thinking about what it's going to be like joining this game as a noob six months or twelve months from now... when there are 24 or more new champions to try and learn and each one is so convoluted. I think it would be too much. Even learning them 2 at a time month to month is a bit of a challenge.

    Just thinking long-term and thinking about plans to grow the userbase... I do think it would be better if new champs were more streamlined. Maybe you disagree.

    Of course I disagree, but I have played this game since its release. My concern would be that removing the complexities involved with the newer champs would in effect nerf them. And if you have a Voodoo and know how to use him then you do not even want to think of a nerf at this point. And even with the addition of newer champs with more complexities the need for a hard hitting, less complex SL has never gone away.
  • TKalTKal Posts: 534 ★★
    I really like that, unfortunately, traduction in my language is a google translate one, so it's even more complicated to understand new champs
  • IvankaIvanka Posts: 236
    Thawnim wrote: »
    I know what it is and why they are doing it. At the same time, you don't see my point about this growth eventually making the game totally inaccessible to new players?

    When I first started playing 7 months ago... there were a lot of champs... but most of them were really simple. They had only just recently started releasing the really complex ones like Dormammu and Hood when I was still in the Intermediate bracket. (Cable and Gwenpool had come out the month before... they were also fairly complicated but still not crazy complicated) I'm just thinking about what it's going to be like joining this game as a noob six months or twelve months from now... when there are 24 or more new champions to try and learn and each one is so convoluted. I think it would be too much. Even learning them 2 at a time month to month is a bit of a challenge.

    Just thinking long-term and thinking about plans to grow the userbase... I do think it would be better if new champs were more streamlined. Maybe you disagree.

    Of course I disagree, but I have played this game since its release. My concern would be that removing the complexities involved with the newer champs would in effect nerf them. And if you have a Voodoo and know how to use him then you do not even want to think of a nerf at this point. And even with the addition of newer champs with more complexities the need for a hard hitting, less complex SL has never gone away.

    You don't need to nerf them in order to make them simpler. As you point out... StarLord is still the heaviest hitting champ in the game. He's also one the simplest. Get more hits... do more damage. Very very simple. His level 2 special has some random effects but it's not a headache trying to keep track of them all.

    I'm also not advocating changing existing champs. I'm just saying in the future it would be nice if not EVERY new champion had 15 different things you had to learn about them.

    I'm thinking about guys like TKal. I like the game's complexities, subtleties, and depth. I just felt it was getting out of hand.

    Anyway thanks for commenting.
  • SirnoobSirnoob Posts: 952 ★★★
    edited July 2017
    I like that champs are more complex now I remember when old man Logan can put and he ended up looking like a groot clone was kinda sad to see a awsome charector get the booring treatment
  • AnewguyAnewguy Posts: 16
    How does Dormammu regenerate? Let's not gloss over that nugget.
  • ThawnimThawnim Posts: 1,461 ★★★★
    @Ivanka_Humpalot If every champ was just a clone of SL then people would get too easily bored. Maybe it'd be better if they had more support out there to explain or even show how to properly use champs when they are released.
  • IvankaIvanka Posts: 236
    Anewguy wrote: »
    How does Dormammu regenerate? Let's not gloss over that nugget.

    Haha.. okay. I'll explain this extremely convoluted process.

    step 1: use a heavy attack to establish a soul link
    step 2: keep attacking and finishing 5 hit combos with a medium attack to drain power, this increases your dark energy.
    step 3: after getting to 100 dark energy, you will get an imbued charge. You must then stop ending combos with medium attacks and you must also not use any specials or this will use up the imbued charge.
    step 4: get to full power and fire off your special 3. This will give you a special buff for a short duration.
    step 5: Before the buff expires, use a heavy attack to detonate the spirit link. This will give you regen equivalent to the strength of the attack, I think.

    In addition to being *way* too complicated to pull off... this is also somewhat useless as after following these 5 steps above your opponent is almost always dead. I guess it could come in handy for a Realm of Legends run.
  • IvankaIvanka Posts: 236
    Thawnim wrote: »
    @Ivanka_Humpalot If every champ was just a clone of SL then people would get too easily bored. Maybe it'd be better if they had more support out there to explain or even show how to properly use champs when they are released.

    I feel like you are not hearing me. I don't want them all to be clones. I want them all to be very distinct. But that doesn't mean they all have to do 100 different things. In fact... if they didn't... I think they would be less like clones than they are currently because right now it's like every new champ can do a bit of everything.

    Anyway... was just a suggestion. Maybe if I had a shot at designing some new characters I could better show you exactly what I meant.
  • LagmelongtimeLagmelongtime Posts: 86
    edited July 2017
    My dream is not to read multiple pages of instruction manual on a mobile phone game champ's ability. A champ that simply gains power when degened is nice. A champ with enhanced bleed when getting poison is nice. A champ that can block unblockable specials when power bar is full is nice (CW is ideal for that btw... He is kinda weak now even after the buff... Kinda like the pre buff majik... Everyone with the same ability can do better job than him). CWBP is simple but effective, voodoo is simple but powerful. I agree some newer champs are trying to fit too much abilities into a single character.... And that typically results in alot more unnecessary bugs ....
  • Also, I think complexity wise, GR is one of the best designed champ and just imo as complex as it should go.
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 377 ★★
    Although I still like the simplicity of the original champs, I also actually like the new champs for their complex game play and find them fun to master. Right now Phoenix and Beast are two of my top ranked champs and playing them effectively is a welcome challenge. Maybe Kabam can mix it up a bit with some more champs with classic straightforward gameplay but considering you're just as likely to pull an old champ as a new champ from a crystal I really don't see a huge need for that.
  • CammonRoCammonRo Posts: 377 ★★
    On a side note, I always felt Doctor Strange took some skill to use effectively as well. He was never just a button mashing champ. I wish they would revisit him and restore him to his former glory. He doesn't need to be as powerful as he was but he can be a whole lot better that's for sure.
  • IvankaIvanka Posts: 236
    there's a difference between skill and memorization of dozens of arcane details.
  • username92847username92847 Posts: 293
    edited July 2017
    I agree with OP.

    I wanna game. Not study for final exams.

    (Jeez, i gave up reading 1/2 way through Dorm's regen, no wonder, i could never pull it off in game)

    It started with Mook Knight & has just got more rediculous with every new champ.

    I feel like I cant keep track of it all...

  • Completely agree Ivanka. the older champs are better designed. simple and effective. my eyes are tired from reading new player abilities before I even get to the descriptions of their specials. Iron man infinity war is a perfect example of this. what were they thinking? character does this as long as this is active and if it's active then he does this and if its not then every third tuesday between the hours of 3 -5:00 he will activate this ability unless there is a full moon in which you need a champ to counter abilities 1, 2, 5, and 8. even then you have a 30% chance he will debuff you. blah blah blah, terrible character design.
  • AnkalagonnAnkalagonn Posts: 458 ★★
    Im still demystifying Killmonger...
  • I agree to a point. I like the complexity of a lot of the champs because it makes you think and switch up your playing but some go overboard. I watched a video on Proxima and I felt like I was studying for a research paper.
  • LoPrestiLoPresti Posts: 1,036 ★★★
    They need to stop adding so many champions and start reworking the old ones.
  • WelderofortuneWelderofortune Posts: 530 ★★
    edited August 2018
    Ankalagonn wrote: »
    Im still demystifying Killmonger...

    Killmonger is very easy to understand, sp1 gain 2 counter punch charges which if struck when blocking , activate an unstoppable charge enabling you to start a combo even against stun immune nodes. sp2 gain 3 indestructible charges granting you immunity from damage but not debuffs for three attacks of any kind including an sp3(Very handy). Next this one ties together all critical hits cause a bleed they do not stack, on your sp3 if you have caused 15 or more bleed debuffs you deal around 800 and some damage per bleed caused during the fight this is your show stopper the coupe de grace if you will. He is right now my favorite champ to play with, very fluid motions and specials.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    slightly complex is good.....
    long list of abilities is good......
    many options on how to play a champ is good.....
    a champ being decent when played by an unskilled player but amazing when you understand them properly is good.....

    all of what kabam is doing in regard to making crazy new abilities and stuff is good....

    but...

    overcomplicated is bad....
    neeeding to read an encyclopedia and then spend 2 weeks studying a champ is bad....

    alot of the newer champs they have released have been good.....
    but it really seemed to start around sentry / void when things begun to get too complicated.....

    does anybody understand domino??? does kabam even understand domino??? lol.....

    i understand it is great to really get to know and understand some champs...
    and i appreciate and love amazing abilities and complexities in champs....

    but they are beginning to go to far....
    there is no need to nerf or adjust what has been done....
    but just take a little step back....
    instead of giving the next champ 1000 abilities give them only 700

    make it so you need to read a user manual to understand your champs.
    but not a full on thesis....

    needing a high school education to understand a champ is fine....
    but needing a Phd and masters degree is too far....
  • XFA_RebootedXFA_Rebooted Posts: 1,045 ★★★
    Well... Would you like to have every champ with the same ability? You take charge and let's see what you do? What would you do?
    (Please though, i would actually like to know)
  • XFA_RebootedXFA_Rebooted Posts: 1,045 ★★★
    I agree with OP.

    I wanna game. Not study for final exams.

    (Jeez, i gave up reading 1/2 way through Dorm's regen, no wonder, i could never pull it off in game)

    It started with Mook Knight & has just got more rediculous with every new champ.

    I feel like I cant keep track of it all...

    I actually figured out how to regen with dorm by accident lol
    Now I do it all the time😂😂😂
  • XFA_RebootedXFA_Rebooted Posts: 1,045 ★★★
    Oh dang... Just realized this thread was over a year ago... Over complicated then??? I don't know what do say now...
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Oh dang... Just realized this thread was over a year ago... Over complicated then??? I don't know what do say now...

    funny to see this get dug up.....
    but its true....

    yes 1 year ago when this post was started it did not hold much merit.. things were going good. champs were getting more complex and having great range of abilities.

    but its getting a bit much now.....
    if they keep making champs more complicated at the rate they are now, by the end of the year you wont even know what champ can do what leat alone how to do it.
    by the time you even read the champion spotlight the next champ will be out.....
    they say they want diversity, they want people to use different champs.
    well this goes the opposite way to that.
    the more complex champs are the more likely people stick to the ones they know cus it is easier to go through content being an expert at 10 champs as opposed to trying to learn 100 but never being able to get good at any.....
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