No longer fun
Cletusaz
Member Posts: 5 ★
By increasing the difficulty of long established content I can no longer compete at a level I was accustomed to for years. I understand that as higher star rating characters become more easily obtained and ranked to new heights difficulty must be increased to keep higher level players satisfied. However how you have chosen to do so is taking the fun away from this game for me and other long standing players I know.
By increasing the difficulty of long established content, for example master difficulty in the monthly EQs, to such a level where experienced players can no longer complete content levels that they have litterally been able to tackle for years, you have affectively demoted them and crippled thier ability to progress at a pace they are accustomed to.
Personally I have historically been able to complete uncollected EQs and occasionally explore them, recently, not a chance. But honestly I understand that top level content must become more difficult as the player base advances.
What I take issue with is the difficulty increase in master mode. It's gone too far, my roster is better than ever and yet I find myself struggling to explore content that I have litterally been crushing for years. Heroic rewards do nothing to further my progression.
In short, I highly suggest you guys take a close look at the data from the last few months master mode EQs, and if you find what I and others suspect, either adjust the difficulty or make heroic rewards at least somewhat usable to someone with a full team of r4 5stars.
For me personally, these last few months have just been no fun and my previously steady progression has ground to a near halt.
I only bring this up because I care about this game. Not whining, just sharing my experience. Thank you for your time.
By increasing the difficulty of long established content, for example master difficulty in the monthly EQs, to such a level where experienced players can no longer complete content levels that they have litterally been able to tackle for years, you have affectively demoted them and crippled thier ability to progress at a pace they are accustomed to.
Personally I have historically been able to complete uncollected EQs and occasionally explore them, recently, not a chance. But honestly I understand that top level content must become more difficult as the player base advances.
What I take issue with is the difficulty increase in master mode. It's gone too far, my roster is better than ever and yet I find myself struggling to explore content that I have litterally been crushing for years. Heroic rewards do nothing to further my progression.
In short, I highly suggest you guys take a close look at the data from the last few months master mode EQs, and if you find what I and others suspect, either adjust the difficulty or make heroic rewards at least somewhat usable to someone with a full team of r4 5stars.
For me personally, these last few months have just been no fun and my previously steady progression has ground to a near halt.
I only bring this up because I care about this game. Not whining, just sharing my experience. Thank you for your time.
30
Comments
The game has evolved, its good. Although some catching up needs to be done on our part, sometimes, it gets ridiculous like how response time becomes sudenly quicker...
It has accomplished demoralizing a customer who has previously always been willing to invest his time and money in this game, and I wanted someone at kabam to know.
I'm ok with uncollected kicking my ass. I don't want to beat everything easily. I'm ok with huge portions of the game being geared towards players more advanced than me.
I'm not ok with stuggling through master. Why? because for the better part of 3 years I have flown through that content. Now I don't, regression is not fun, and that regression is a direct result of the increased difficulty of the boss fights.
you've also got to factor that there are many more powerful 5*s in the game and even new players are able to amass a decent 5* rosta without even completing act 4. I started a test account just befor sabretooth was released not started act 5 yet used the reduction in energy to 100% act 4 I have about 8 5*s and from crystal pulls alone without hitting arena I have capiw blade aegon domino and imiw all max 4*S at rank 5 but I have pulled like literally all the god champs as a 4* omega frost sabretooth modok hyperion killmonger etc
Use to look at ROL and said no way it’s to hard ( walk in the park now)
Act 5 just way to hard, but wait now it’s 100%
LOL just finish first run few weeks ago, wasn’t so bad.
Thinking all this was impossible only 12 months ago.
Now there is new content which I think I may never finish ( I’ll check back in 12 months)
But must admit it has all been fun when it’s finally done 😀
Actually you are incorrect.
Master difficulty did infact change.
It changed in December 2017.
In November 2017 and earlier it was alot harder. Paths were much much harder to get to tthe boss.
Anyone remember when Mephisto first came out??? the defenders on the paths of his chapter varied between 9kPi and 11kPi and he himself was a MOFO to fight. And also you needed a specific champipn here even at this point to fight him ore else you were screwed.
In December 2017 when they first released Uncollected Difficulty EQ they drastically reduced the difficulty of Master to a point where it was barely any harder then Heroic.
this only lasted for that month however.
The months Of Jan and Feb 2018 saw the level of master difficulty Eq increase but not to where it was prior.
We now saw champs in final chapter between 7kPi and 9kPi.
which is where it has remained to date.
Since this point there has been no challenge whatsoever in master except for maybe the boss fights.
back prior to UC EQ difficulty being released the challenge was more than just in the boss fight. The challenge was also in clearing the paths leading up to the boss.
I could be mistaken on this last point but i am sure it wqas also around this point tht "WARNING" node was also removed from heroic making heroic more inline with Act4 and no longer containing Sp3's.
Please correct me if i am wrong on that point.
Mephisto EQ was by far the hardest Master Quest we have ever seen. It was harder than anything before it and nothing since then even comes close.
Yup, this is what I was talking about, but couldn’t remember all the details. Good stuff remembering/digging up those details.
Fair enough but not everyone sees it that way, and adjusting difficulty downward for you would make the content boring for people who currently find it properly challenging.
So who's right? The answer is: Kabam doesn't know either, so they almost certainly do what every other game operator for games like this does, and what you specifically suggested they do. They look at the data. If the data shows that a similar percentage of players are completing the content with a similar amount of resources, then that's considered "similar relative difficulty."
We know they look at data and eventually, if not quickly, they adjust to it. Kabam was honestly cock-sure that they didn't change difficulty of AQ significantly when they added the original full strength Sentinels. I was certain that they did, and by a massive amount. So who was right? In the end, it was the data that decided: even I could see, with the limited access to AQ data I had, that AQ scores were immediately depressed way outside the normal variance in the week those Sentinels were introduced. However, Kabam's position was that any difficulty perceived was temporary, and would go away once players got used to fighting them. Week two showed that theory to be incorrect on that kind of timescales: AQ scores did not improve at all. They didn't really improve in week three either. So they finally nerfed the Sentinels, because the data forced them to. Even the nerfed Sentinels depressed scores for several weeks.
The players who think either master or uncollected has been getting harder every month, and that fewer and fewer players must be able to complete it, and this will eventually lead to a catastrophe, don't understand how games like this are balanced. Game companies generally don't care what we *say* about difficulty. They only care about what we *do* when confronting that difficulty. If the data says the playerbase continues to complete the content at a similar rate, spending similar resources, then they've hit the bullseye. If not, eventually they adjust.
I don’t have 5* Blade, or Aegon, or Void. I recently got 3* CapIW and 3* IMIW. I don’t have them in any higher tiers. I haven’t duped CapIW or IMIW even once. So while it could be possible to use 3* CapIW against Red Hulk, my CapIW is awakened to level 1. Not very useful.
I recently ranked up my 4* MODOK to r5, but yet to really try to beat Red Hulk Uncollected. I didn’t need him for Master.
If Kabam wants to make it such that only specific champs work in a given scenario then we need a way to obtain those champs directly - or at least with significantly improved odds. I’ve spent quite a bit on this game but I’m rapidly losing interest in it. I purchased the 5* awakening gem crystal in the hopes of awakening my 5* SL, but nope, Mutant. I awakened my 5* Iceman instead.
But I’m at the point where I’m very likely to just give up and move on with my life. I’ve enjoyed playing this game, but it’s no longer fun.
I’ve been playing almost 4 years, so there are other reasons too. However, content targeting certain champs that for some reason refuse to drop for me makes it frustrating. It’s not about it getting hard, it’s about it being unfair to some due to the awful RNG that is used for the game.
This game helped my at stressful points during my PhD, my thesis is submitted and I’m waiting to hear back on my defense date, so less motivated to play. But if some of this content requires champs that I am yet to obtain regardless of how many 5* crystals I open and instead dupe my IP or give me Groot or MMKK, yes I seriously will consider quitting.
If you want to talk about hard, do a PhD and then tell me I’m quitting - this is just a game. I’ve never quit anything in life that mattered.
On that note, I was also curious about the difficulty of Heroic vs Master vs Uncollected. I am not yet Uncollected, so can only go by videos of others I've seen ... but my current level is: I can explore Master most of the time without too much difficulty. I've completed Act 5 Chpt 1 fairly easily, and working (leisurly) at Chp 2.
I completed ROL ages ago, but took a break and came back just prior to Champion EQ. I took out Aegon easily, (after getting curb stomped the first time, and "Oh, so that's how he works ... Ok.".
Champion was a bit trickier, but my Dr. Strange handled him reasonably well.
Next EQ:
Night Thrasher game me some issues, but after I figured him out, I cleared him.
Dark hawk .. after wasting 20 revives on him, I just conceded ... he was a bit too "stupid" for me .. *shrug* oh well.
Current EQ:
Thing .. tangled with him in Heroic .. and damn, he hits hard .. was worried in Master he'd block me ... but after a bit more research and planning, I managed to handle him just fine (Winter Soldier MVP, for sure).
Red Hulk was a cake walk thanks to Ronan ...
Diablo wasn't too hard once I got into the rythym .. (again, Winter Soldier MVP ... )
So not bad, 2 of the 3 last EQ 100% ... and ignoring the Darkhawk fight, I think I used a total of less than half dozen revives total between the 3. Not bad ... challenging, but not impossible.
That's me ... so let's ignore me now for a moment .. and just take a look at the "map" of all the difficulties from Beginner up to Uncollected ...
Looks fine, except for that odd spike on the right side .. and if you look at that, you see that the final 2 encounters of Master are TOUGHER than the first fight of Uncollected.
That might not sound like an issue, but compare it to all the others ... steady progression all the way ..
I put forward 1 of 2 possibilities:
1) Uncollected isn't scaled up to the level it should be (ie it should be harder to keep the scale consistent and smooth)
or
2) Master difficulty ramps up too fast for the final 3 or 4 chapters.
Not only because I don't want all those in uncollected hunting after me for #1 .. but I honestly believe #2 is the case here.
I believe Master actually ramps up too quickly ... but that's all just my opinion .. and no complaining .. just observation based on simple facts ..
Heck, even the 1st mission in Master, is MUCH higher than the final mission in Heroic ... that seems odd as well ..
I'd put forward that the target PIs for Master should be more like:
1-1 Kang 5000
1-2 MODOK 7000
2-1 Mordo 9000
2-2 Thing 11000
3-1 Red Hulk 13000
3-2 Diablo 15000
or something along that lines ... *shrug*
Cheers all!
There's a third possibility, which is also what actually happens. Uncollected does not follow the same difficulty curve as the other four difficulties, because it is not intended to.
The first four difficulties are part of a general progression. It actually isn't true that the first fight of the next difficulty *must* be easier than the last fight of the previous one, it just happens to be true (and keep in mind PI is only a very rough proxy for difficulty: in actual fact the final boss of the previous difficulty tends to be more difficult than the first fight in the next difficulty in actual play). But the last difficulty is not intended to address that same progression. This was discussed briefly when the uncollected difficulty was first introduced
Before Uncollected, it was Master that was disconnected from the rest. The first three difficulties were on a smooth difficulty curve and Master was much more difficult. The reason is that we have a wide range of players and at the time only four difficulties. If we space those difficulties "evenly" to address those players they would be separated by wide margins. The jumps between difficulties would be too high. But if we space them more appropriately, then we "run out" of difficulties. The higher tier players have nothing remotely close to them. So Kabam decides to use the first three to address the bulk of the players in a specific progression curve, and the last difficulty to target a much higher "aspirational" difficulty tier.
We know all of this because when they introduced Uncollected they *lowered* Master difficulty. Why? Because now that Uncollected was taking the role of high end aspirational difficulty Master was freed up to join the other difficulties on the same progression curve.
So setting aside the fact that PI is a lot more fuzzy metric than your graph implies (and I'm not knocking the work you did there: actually looking at the numbers is commendable in fact), what you're seeing is a deliberate disconnect between uncollected and everything else. Everything else tries to be on a certain progression curve. Uncollected difficulty attempts to address a completely different requirement that does not require it to start higher than Master, and also doesn't require it to stop where Master would project the top to be. It is more roughly based on where the top tier players are on average, and how difficult they find the content on average as datamined by the game. And in the uncollected maps, difficulty is being delivered more by the nodes and by synergies between the nodes and the champion abilities, and less by the health and attack of the champions (which are the bulk of what factors into PI rating).
Although a distinct possibility, it's mostly speculation, as neither you nor I have any insight into Kabam's intention .. I'm only attempting to make observations on what I see based on empirical evidence
but you bring up a good point ... I don't agree fully with it, but I do acknowledge your point .. fair.
again, have to disagree here ... given Master was "off before" .. it's still showing as being a bit "off" now ..
Yeah, I figured this might be a point, however, if it is a point of contention, it lies only in that Kabam's calculation of PI is not being calculated accurately based on nodes on them ...
if the nodes are harder (which some are), then the PI should reflect that ... so really, the PI is the only "fair" way for us to compare them ... we have to "trust kabam" on that one ..
[quote
what you're seeing is a deliberate disconnect between uncollected and everything else. Everything else tries to be on a certain progression curve. Uncollected difficulty attempts to address a completely different requirement that does not require it to start higher than Master, and also doesn't require it to stop where Master would project the top to be. It is more roughly based on where the top tier players are on average, and how difficult they find the content on average as datamined by the game. And in the uncollected maps, difficulty is being delivered more by the nodes and by synergies between the nodes and the champion abilities, and less by the health and attack of the champions (which are the bulk of what factors into PI rating).
[/quote]
But then it's clearly not providing the challenge to end gamers then, if the first few are "weaker" than master ...
also, if the PI isn't reflecting the true difficulty .. than that's a problem as well ..
I've watched Seatin tackling it ... and it is definitely challenging for even somebody like him .. however, while watching him ... you'll notice he breezes through the first 3-4 chapters with hardly glancing at things ... again, indicating the ramp up is .. "odd" ..
I can't talk more on Uncollected than that ... so back to Master .. my only point .. is it ramps up "too fast" ... IMHO ...
challenging is fine ... but it shouldn't ramp up so fast .. considering the rewards ... *shrug*
which is what get's everyone complaining over it all ... definitely proves something is wrong ..
I was a bit shocked that I think they put the unblockable finale on heroic mode - think that’s first time we seen that one trickle that low (at least since they fix it to be all attacks and not just specials)
There's two tiny bits of evidence to support my "speculation." One: this is how a lot of end game content's difficulty is designed in lots of similar kinds of games. And two: Kabam basically confirmed this when uncollected difficulty was introduced. I'd say that makes this a slightly better guess than your other two.
Fair enough .. but keep in mind that that info is in the past ... we're dealing with a current situation .. the results of that past decision ... seems like something is still off, even with that "adjustment" ...
Watch a YouTube video and u will do just fine