Mister Sinister 1,600,000 damage in less than 30 seconds [Fix in the Works]

ContestOfNoobs

Pretty crazy, but is it a “Bug” I posted a link to the video...

Vid belowww

https://youtu.be/sVFb18yrfBY

Comments

Zuro

If I’m being honest this isn’t really that I think it be nice to have a champ like this in the game for long battles although I probably wouldn’t use him myself but hey I understand why this needs to get fixed

Demonzfyre

TheSpicyKnight wrote: »

Demonzfyre wrote: »

@ContestOfNoobs what would cause it?

Suicides since it takes a portion of total health instead of a fixed amount combined with the fact that Sinister can pause DoT debuffs

Ah ok thx

hope4tg

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

mum_m2

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

I agree with you whole-heartedly here, the description of that ability is probably written incorrectly. they have a history of doing this sort of thing but honestly, do you think the developers of the game intended for this ability to be that strong??? it would break the game honestly - LOL would be dealt with in less than 1 hour per path. you could have it done in less than a day with a 4*. no thanks, and I'm happy they are fixing him. unlike many people I want to play this game at a challenging level, and not walk through it.

Kabam Miike

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

The Debuff should be based on the strength of the Debuff on Mr Sinister. But right now, it's basing the damage on the Opponent's health. This is not the intended effect.

Hulk_77

Kabam Miike wrote: »

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

The Debuff should be based on the strength of the Debuff on Mr Sinister. But right now, it's basing the damage on the Opponent's health. This is not the intended effect.

Did you mean Double Edge and not Deep Wounds?

As it's supposed to accelerate the damage of the entire debuff, how does that interact with liquid courage, which has an infinite duration?

Also, will Deep Wounds extend a Double Edge bleed that is transferred?

user3948570293458

Kabam Miike wrote: »

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The Debuff should be based on the strength of the Debuff on Mr Sinister. But right now, it's basing the damage on the Opponent's health. This is not the intended effect.

Isn't this going to make the monthly quest harder for impacted players?

That seems a bit tough to swallow if true.

Darkness275

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Prime_Saviour02 wrote: »

Bet this gets fixed by tonight

It want it fixed in the next hour... A bug that we can identify this quickly should be addressed as fast as possible. I know this is going to quickly turn into a case of "Fixing bugs that help players right away, etc.", but that's again ignoring the countless bugs that hurt players that we scramble to fix right away.

This is a server side fix, and will be fixed as soon as it can be.

In fairness, this IS a bug that would hurt the player as well.
I'm imagining a Sinister with suicides on defense... one SP1 and anyone is dead.

Kpatrix

It wouldn't be that OP if sinister was used on defense with suicides. Not as OP as the video anyway. It's basically doing 20% health over 4 seconds like double edge mastery normally does in 16 seconds.
Your champ would lose a good deal of health, but it's better than the other way of having it deal 20% of a boosted boss' health back at you

I think it is working as it was designed, the devs were just short sighted in a 3m hp opponent like in LoL.

If they push a fix that transfers the damage sinister would take then it is definitely worse for players.

Báihû

Kpatrix wrote: »

It wouldn't be that OP if sinister was used on defense with suicides. Not as OP as the video anyway. It's basically doing 20% health over 4 seconds like double edge mastery normally does in 16 seconds.
Your champ would lose a good deal of health, but it's better than the other way of having it deal 20% of a boosted boss' health back at you

I think it is working as it was designed, the devs were just short sighted in a 3m hp opponent like in LoL.

If they push a fix that transfers the damage sinister would take then it is definitely worse for players.

Exactly this is what people don’t understand fixing the “bug” would be a lot worse on defense since you won’t know how many hp you’re losing is he transfers the suicides

BigPoppaCBONE

Funny how Kabam missed this and it took the youtubers the time LoL takes to load once they hit one in a fight. Whatever damage it was a tic on Sinister would be what it becomes a tic on the opponent. Wouldn’t make sense to do it another way. He’s not immune to anything so the resulting damage number is there to be replicated. Easy-peasy.

ContestOfNoobs

Check how effective he is until..kabam nerfs him

https://twitter.com/ContestOfNoobs/status/1095088601237471234

MostWanted

Darkness275 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Prime_Saviour02 wrote: »

Bet this gets fixed by tonight

It want it fixed in the next hour... A bug that we can identify this quickly should be addressed as fast as possible. I know this is going to quickly turn into a case of "Fixing bugs that help players right away, etc.", but that's again ignoring the countless bugs that hurt players that we scramble to fix right away.

This is a server side fix, and will be fixed as soon as it can be.

In fairness, this IS a bug that would hurt the player as well.
I'm imagining a Sinister with suicides on defense... one SP1 and anyone is dead.

No! You would love 1% health for 4 seconds. The double Edge and liquid courage deals that damage (circa 1% health per second, but on starlord, the 1% is much higher)
So it would not be so devastating in war.

Zuro

If I’m being real here I really don’t think this should be patch it would be an amazing idea for this to be left here as people can use him for defence and before you say it would be too OP on defence simply evade it so personally I think this should be left in the game

Trakaz

how does this interact with EQ right now. for those using AA against him. they would be killed easy after taking a sp1.

unknown

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unknown

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Magrailothos

Zuro wrote: »

If I’m being real here I really don’t think this should be patch it would be an amazing idea for this to be left here as people can use him for defence and before you say it would be too OP on defence simply evade it so personally I think this should be left in the game

You can't evade it or block it. It says so very clearly in the SP1 description.

Still don't think it's OP?

Kobster84

Now if he has suicides it will be even worse on defense as he will transfer his damage rather then the % damage

Magrailothos

Sinister's bio makes clear that he was conceived as a defender; particularly a counter to attackers like Corvus and Blade.
This kind of damage is exactly what Sinister was designed to do. In defense!

The bio clearly states that he compresses damaging debuffs and passes them back to the attacker with a simple SP1; and that this is completely unavoidable by the recipient.
That he is specifically intended to do this with Double Edge.

Let's face it, with this ability it's sensible to simply avoid taking champs who inflict debuffs against him. Particularly since many of the strong bleed champs are skill-based. But if you unlock Double Edge, he gets his own pool of massive damage to throw unavoidably with his SP1.

Like Ghost, Omega Red, Emma Frost and Diablo, this is a champ intended to make suicide masteries really pay off with little or no downside.

So his champ design makes suicides very desirable; and very effective sources of high damage. It seems that this champion is working as intended, but that the consequences of him 'working as intended' simply weren't fully explored; once he gets put into an offensive mode.

A+ for the design team; whom I'm sure ticked all the boxes they were asked to tick.
F for the testing team; who didn't ask themselves 'what about LOL or variant'.

I'm interested to see how he gets 'rebalanced'. I'm sure he'll still be able to do pretty impressive damage using Double Edge/SP1; as a defender on a +200% health node.

Kobster84

Magrailothos wrote: »

Sinister's bio makes clear that he was conceived as a defender; particularly a counter to attackers like Corvus and Blade.
This kind of damage is exactly what Sinister was designed to do. In defense!

The bio clearly states that he compresses damaging debuffs and passes them back to the attacker with a simple SP1; and that this is completely unavoidable by the recipient.
That he is specifically intended to do this with Double Edge.

Let's face it, with this ability it's sensible to simply avoid taking champs who inflict debuffs against him. Particularly since many of the strong bleed champs are skill-based. But if you unlock Double Edge, he gets his own pool of massive damage to throw unavoidably with his SP1.

Like Ghost, Omega Red, Emma Frost and Diablo, this is a champ intended to make suicide masteries really pay off with little or no downside.

So his champ design makes suicides very desirable; and very effective sources of high damage. It seems that this champion is working as intended, but that the consequences of him 'working as intended' simply weren't fully explored; once he gets put into an offensive mode.

A+ for the design team; whom I'm sure ticked all the boxes they were asked to tick.
F for the testing team; who didn't ask themselves 'what about LOL or variant'.

I'm interested to see how he gets 'rebalanced'. I'm sure he'll still be able to do pretty impressive damage using Double Edge/SP1; as a defender on a +200% health node.

He will do more damage now as before he would have transferred the debuffs they would have done like 16% of your health now they will do 16% of what his health is

Kobster84

Wait does suicides do damage based of your base or increase do health on defense

Greywarden

Kabam Miike wrote: »

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

The Debuff should be based on the strength of the Debuff on Mr Sinister. But right now, it's basing the damage on the Opponent's health. This is not the intended effect.

So then what will happen in war for a Mr Sinister whose health is scaled up? What happens with LC which technically has an infinite duration? There are ways to play around the debuffs being transferred i.e. not letting him get enough power for an sp1 and letting the bleed from DE fall off but the LC poison seems unavoidable without an immue champ.

Would really appreciate feedback on this as it's been asked a few times already.

Coop4440

What does Kabam intend to do about all the people who bought this crystal expecting this result and now it’s being “fixed”? If the champion is released, that’s how the champion should stay. I want my money back if this is being fixed

Zuro

Magrailothos wrote: »

Zuro wrote: »

If I’m being real here I really don’t think this should be patch it would be an amazing idea for this to be left here as people can use him for defence and before you say it would be too OP on defence simply evade it so personally I think this should be left in the game

You can't evade it or block it. It says so very clearly in the SP1 description.

Still don't think it's OP?

Even if u can’t evade you can use someone who is immune to these Debuffs like half of these players after buying these crystals expected him to work in this way anyways. In conclusion he is not OP as just use a champ who is immune to bleed or poison like he was made to be a great defender

Zuro

If this does get fixed Sinister will be a very less desirable champ

ElectricJelly

mum_m2 wrote: »

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

I agree with you whole-heartedly here, the description of that ability is probably written incorrectly. they have a history of doing this sort of thing but honestly, do you think the developers of the game intended for this ability to be that strong??? it would break the game honestly - LOL would be dealt with in less than 1 hour per path. you could have it done in less than a day with a 4*. no thanks, and I'm happy they are fixing him. unlike many people I want to play this game at a challenging level, and not walk through it.

Of course, even if they didn’t fix it is still wouldn’t have to be any skin off your nose since you could preserve the game’s challenge by, I dunno, not using him or something crazy like that, but I guess it’s cool when things shake out so that people HAVE to interact with a product exactly the way you prefer to do so.

Crimson8399

Greywarden wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

hope4tg wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Yes. This is definitely a bug. It seems to be caused by Deep wounds referencing the Health of the opponent instead of Mr Sinister, like it should have. We're working on a fix for this right now.

"... like it should have."

Mike, I agree that this interaction is simply OP and should be removed due to just how unbalanced it is but it is not a bug. It is behaving correctly per the ability description. A bug is the unexpected behaviour of a piece of software but this is behaving as it is expected. It is so expected that it was the among the first things that was tested by content creators.

The description says that the debuff itself will be transfered, not the damage from the debuff.

What will happen with other percentage based debuffs such as degen, bleed or poison nodes? Will you change the description? Please keep us updated and inform us as to what kind of exact solution you went with, as it is VERY important for us to know this.

The Debuff should be based on the strength of the Debuff on Mr Sinister. But right now, it's basing the damage on the Opponent's health. This is not the intended effect.

So then what will happen in war for a Mr Sinister whose health is scaled up? What happens with LC which technically has an infinite duration? There are ways to play around the debuffs being transferred i.e. not letting him get enough power for an sp1 and letting the bleed from DE fall off but the LC poison seems unavoidable without an immue champ.

Would really appreciate feedback on this as it's been asked a few times already.

It will of course be working as intended then because at that point it's going against the player not kabam.