Clarification on how BRAWL functions

It seems to me that the BRAWL node should make both champs go Unstoppable every ten seconds, and should work like this:

Ten Seconds-> Unstoppable (5s) -> Ten Seconds-> Unstoppable (5s)-> repeat

However, this is how it works:

Ten Seconds-> Unstoppable+Ten second timer already going-> Unstoppable+Ten second timer already going

This only leaves you 5 seconds between Unstoppable. I think we can all agree that while both champs get this "Benefit," only those who are truly stronger gain anything when a single hit is enough to kill in Epic. I am slowly making it through these nodes, but I can only imagine how crushing this must be to people who are still trying to build rosters and skills getting curb stomped by a node that has no counter other than moving out of the way and waiting for a 5 second window.
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Comments

  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 652 ★★★
    Yeah that’s how it’s supposed to work.

    Trash node.
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 894 ★★★
    So when unstoppable you can still take damage?
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,493 ★★★★
    Ye it’s actually unstoppable every 5 seconds after the first timer
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    Just saying, the in-game description should be updated to reflect his.
  • -sixate--sixate- Posts: 274 ★★
    The timer shouldn't start again until unstoppable period is over. It's quite stupid
  • GsxrmackGsxrmack Posts: 5
    yes it is
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    Tyger87 wrote: »
    Just saying, the in-game description should be updated to reflect his.

    It is.

    Goes unstoppable every 10 seconds.
    GOES not goes then waits 5 seconds then goes 10 seconds later.
    That would read goes unstoppable every 15 seconds.

    Go is a trigger word.

    I go to work every 24 hrs. That time doesnt change based on when I leave work
  • GmonkeyGmonkey Posts: 424
    edited February 15
    Have Corvus.
    Take proxima, Hela, Angela heimdal

    Let everyone but Corvus die then you get 20% revive then a heimdal cheat death + true strike for black widow and iwim
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    Tyger87 wrote: »
    I understand the legal definition behind how Kabam phrased it. It's just dirty and counter-intuitive. Why not phrase it in a manner that removes question?

    BRAWL - After the first ten seconds of a fight, both champs gain a passive Unstoppable buff that lasts for 5 seconds. After the first buff, and for the duration of the fight, the next Unstoppable buff will trigger 5 seconds after the previous one ends.

    And no, that is not too wordy. All of the "Aggression" nodes are mini novels.

    I dont understand how theres question every 10 seconds both GO unstoppable.

    That reads as it works perfectly I really dont grasp how everyone seems to assume goes unstoppable every 10 seconds would mean they go unstoppable every 15 second
  • Player1994Player1994 Posts: 526 ★★
    it'll be great if they bump our champs in that node to the same '( health attack as opennents ) it'll be so fair then
  • TdogTdog Posts: 4
    Brawl is probably the worst node in the game at the moment. It’s both frustrating and boring, but Kabam seems to be in love with the Unstoppable function. Come up with something more creative guys.
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 292 ★★
    Is the node functioning as written in it's description? YES.

    Should it function this way for fun and balance reasons? NO.

    I tried to bring this issue up HERE but we got no response from Kabam and instead an argument over how it's technically working correctly.

    Again I want to reiterate this point. We are not saying that the description on the node is incorrect. We are saying that we would like the functionality of the node to change to give us a longer window to interact with our opponent since the current 5 second window is extremely limiting. It cannot be prevented and it cannot be nullified, leading to a situation with almost no opportunity to counter the node through skill, roster, or planning.
  • Tyger87 wrote: »
    I understand the legal definition behind how Kabam phrased it. It's just dirty and counter-intuitive. Why not phrase it in a manner that removes question?

    BRAWL - After the first ten seconds of a fight, both champs gain a passive Unstoppable buff that lasts for 5 seconds. After the first buff, and for the duration of the fight, the next Unstoppable buff will trigger 5 seconds after the previous one ends.

    And no, that is not too wordy. All of the "Aggression" nodes are mini novels.

    Why does everyone that wants to nit-pick a description claim that there's a "legal" definition, then the one normal people use?

    "Goes Unstoppable every ten seconds" is about as accurate and obvious as a description can be without getting ridiculous. You can say "Goes unstoppable for five seconds, then waits around for five seconds, then goes unstoppable again for five seconds" is somehow more clear, but the problem is that's not what's happening. The champion is literally going unstoppable, then setting a timer to go unstoppable again in ten seconds. That's true whether the unstoppable lasts for five seconds, for one second, or for ten seconds.

    If one day something comes around that can nullify or break that unstoppable, saying the next unstoppable occurs five seconds after the previous one ends would be inaccurate. Is Kabam supposed to describe this incorrectly now, and then be forced to change all those descriptions in the future if the game adds something that breaks the incorrect description?

    The game should tell players what is actually happening. Not what appears to be happening coincidentally today. That's how problems crop up in the future. The players just slammed Kabam for doing exactly this with mastery descriptions: the descriptions stated what they were trying to achieve, not what was actually happening. And then players were surprised when an addition to the game didn't follow the description, because the description was not strictly true in the first place.
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    Fair enough with the description, but the point remains, that the window of time to hit is way too small. Also, there is no way Kabam will ever create a champion that can shorten, nullify, stagger, ability reduce, or fate seal passive buffs. That is the whole point. Nothing effects passive buffs. If Kabam wants you to be able to manipulate it, they wouldn't make it passive. A character like that would break the game, unless their abilities ONLY interacted with passive buffs, making them super niche.
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    Is the node functioning as written in it's description? YES.

    Should it function this way for fun and balance reasons? NO.

    I tried to bring this issue up HERE but we got no response from Kabam and instead an argument over how it's technically working correctly.

    Again I want to reiterate this point. We are not saying that the description on the node is incorrect. We are saying that we would like the functionality of the node to change to give us a longer window to interact with our opponent since the current 5 second window is extremely limiting. It cannot be prevented and it cannot be nullified, leading to a situation with almost no opportunity to counter the node through skill, roster, or planning.

    Domino can fail brawl node so saying it cant be prevented is false
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 292 ★★
    We need to stop looking at how Brawl is written and instead focus on how it functions as a mechanic. They can always update the description to match the new functionality, so blaming the current description is not how we're going to get this changed.

    Step 1: Acknowledge that the Brawl node description is accurate: It is doing exactly what the node says it should be doing.

    Step 2: Analyze how the node functions and how it impacts gameplay: 10 second window at the start of the fight before passive unstoppable triggers followed by alternating 5 second windows of no unstoppable and then unstoppable again. This mechanic is not interactive (can't prevent it, can't nullify it) and there is not enough time in between activations for counter play.

    Step 3: Propose a solution: We think a 10 second window in between the alternating activations would allow more room for counter play and lead to a more enjoyable game experience.

    Step 4: Change node functionality and update description: Brawl "Both Champions go Unstoppable for 5 seconds every 15 seconds". You now have an accurate description and a changed mechanic. If Kabam wanted to maintain a 10 second window they would simply make both champions unstoppable at the beginning of the fight with an updated description to match.
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Is the node functioning as written in it's description? YES.

    Should it function this way for fun and balance reasons? NO.

    I tried to bring this issue up HERE but we got no response from Kabam and instead an argument over how it's technically working correctly.

    Again I want to reiterate this point. We are not saying that the description on the node is incorrect. We are saying that we would like the functionality of the node to change to give us a longer window to interact with our opponent since the current 5 second window is extremely limiting. It cannot be prevented and it cannot be nullified, leading to a situation with almost no opportunity to counter the node through skill, roster, or planning.

    Domino can fail brawl node so saying it cant be prevented is false

    I have yet to see proof that domino's unlucky, or anyone else's ability reduction be able to manipulate this node.
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    Tyger87 wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Is the node functioning as written in it's description? YES.

    Should it function this way for fun and balance reasons? NO.

    I tried to bring this issue up HERE but we got no response from Kabam and instead an argument over how it's technically working correctly.

    Again I want to reiterate this point. We are not saying that the description on the node is incorrect. We are saying that we would like the functionality of the node to change to give us a longer window to interact with our opponent since the current 5 second window is extremely limiting. It cannot be prevented and it cannot be nullified, leading to a situation with almost no opportunity to counter the node through skill, roster, or planning.

    Domino can fail brawl node so saying it cant be prevented is false

    I have yet to see proof that domino's unlucky, or anyone else's ability reduction be able to manipulate this node.

    I'm 98 percent sure it does as I used domino for brawl every time I'll try and get video or pics later not.sure how to video to forum tho
  • Tyger87 wrote: »
    Also, there is no way Kabam will ever create a champion that can shorten, nullify, stagger, ability reduce, or fate seal passive buffs. That is the whole point. Nothing effects passive buffs. If Kabam wants you to be able to manipulate it, they wouldn't make it passive. A character like that would break the game, unless their abilities ONLY interacted with passive buffs, making them super niche.

    I'll take this bet. They aren't quite there yet, but they aren't far away either. There are abilities that interact with passive effects - Hulk Ragnarok has an ability that reacts to the presence of passive damage over time effects. And I'm currently looking at the "Bane of Damballah" node effect for some experimental reasons: it claims to grant effects to the defender if the attacker is "under a beneficial effect." This seems to include passive effects: Blade's Danger Sense seemed to trigger it in my experience (I didn't video it, so I'm retesting it with several different champs later). And while I'm unaware of things that can shorten or nullify a passive effect, there are passive effects that are triggered by triggers which are affected by ability accuracy reduction.

    It is clear that most passive effects were created so that they wouldn't be affected by things that normally affect normal buffs and debuffs. But that doesn't mean they themselves won't be affected by other future effects down the road. I don't think this is a safe bet at all.
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    Which chapter has brawl early like first set I dont qanna waste energy testing
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Which chapter has brawl early like first set I dont qanna waste energy testing

    Quest 3 of the Captain Marvel quests is a good place to go. Global node.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 4,524 ★★★★★
    @Drooped2 the only way to upload a video is to upload it to youtube and post the link. Kind of dumb.
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Tyger87 wrote: »
    Also, there is no way Kabam will ever create a champion that can shorten, nullify, stagger, ability reduce, or fate seal passive buffs. That is the whole point. Nothing effects passive buffs. If Kabam wants you to be able to manipulate it, they wouldn't make it passive. A character like that would break the game, unless their abilities ONLY interacted with passive buffs, making them super niche.

    I'll take this bet. They aren't quite there yet, but they aren't far away either. There are abilities that interact with passive effects - Hulk Ragnarok has an ability that reacts to the presence of passive damage over time effects. And I'm currently looking at the "Bane of Damballah" node effect for some experimental reasons: it claims to grant effects to the defender if the attacker is "under a beneficial effect." This seems to include passive effects: Blade's Danger Sense seemed to trigger it in my experience (I didn't video it, so I'm retesting it with several different champs later). And while I'm unaware of things that can shorten or nullify a passive effect, there are passive effects that are triggered by triggers which are affected by ability accuracy reduction.

    It is clear that most passive effects were created so that they wouldn't be affected by things that normally affect normal buffs and debuffs. But that doesn't mean they themselves won't be affected by other future effects down the road. I don't think this is a safe bet at all.

    I didn't say they couldn't interact with them, such as Gilly being able reverse OML or ST healing. What I am saying is there is no way to remove/stop them from happening. She might reverse the healing, but it is still there. You can't stop IMIW from gaining his armor, or "Nullify" it in normal ways. Each passive buff normally has a unique way in which it goes away (taking damage, consumed for something, etc) but NEVER flat out prevented or nullified in the usual ways that say for example mystics can do. Loki can't steal them either. And for Unstoppable to be a passive, there is literally no counter, that is until Drooped shows me.
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    00088jkybuzb.jpg
    Heres a quick pic I have brawl but mm doesnt I'll try video tonight
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    So the best counter to brawl is "hope the other person becomes unlucky"?
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,873 ★★★★★
    edited February 16
    Tyger87 wrote: »
    So the best counter to brawl is "hope the other person becomes unlucky"?

    No power on either champ so unlucky isnt needed that's just crit fail.
    Havent tested yet but since crit fail is just aar I believe aa should suffice (on some fights (poisen immune would hurt aa)
  • Tyger87Tyger87 Posts: 62
    So for the newer players who have relatively ok rosters, and no duped Domino, they are just screwed? (I'm fine, just saying)
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