**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Witness the Great Revival! Act 6 Chapter 1 - Coming March 13th

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Comments

  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,756 ★★★★★
    Remember when the first time youd try act 3 or act 4 with less than minimal 3 and 4*? Its just the same thing here. You'll have to either try it with what you have or wait till your built up again with better options.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Remember when the first time youd try act 3 or act 4 with less than minimal 3 and 4*? Its just the same thing here. You'll have to either try it with what you have or wait till your built up again with better options.

    Except the difference being you could use anyone in your roster for Act 3 or 4.
  • 4Never4Never Posts: 84 ★
    becauseicant said:

    Kabam Goggy said:


    Act 6 (and other content) is built with specific challenges in mind. The requirement of 5 and 6-Stars is a broader application of the idea, but it allows us to build a more tightly-constructed experience around a more specific box of playstyles. Making one-size fits all content for an immense player toolbox can lead to things being more watered down and general, rather than the specific moments we can make when we know the lower and upper limits of each player as a matter of fact.

    Can you please elaborate more on this point, similar to how you went into more detail for the class restriction in Variant. More specifically, what type of experience are you guys trying to construct with this restriction that you couldn't without it? What are your goals when it comes to how this is supposed to impact the players experience?



    I also thought the same thing. Quote: "it allows us to build a more tightly-constructed experience around a more specific box of playstyles".
    How does restricting 4* use allow you to do that? What is a tightly-constructed experience? What specific box of playstyles? How does restricting 4*s do any of that when the same champs are available in 5*s?

    Quote: "Making one-size fits all content for an immense player toolbox can lead to things being more watered down and general, rather than the specific moments we can make"
    Well, I can tell you now that you may think that is important, but chopping the legs of our long time built rosters in this mmorpg, IS NOT a good experience! I would think it's worse. There is nothing good about that from the player's POV. We can tolerate some limited restrictions on our rosters, but this is way too far.
    It's just a terrible feeling to have a gate so broad. It's like a reset on the game. Let the difficulty of Act 6 be it's own deterrent to using 4*s. To take them from us entirely in this area, is way too much. Do something else like raise the summoner level.

    Your explanation sounds like, hey we know what you'll like better than you do, and even though you don't like not being able to use your 4*s now, you'll thank us later because we created a moment for you to mark your passage.

    ***** Aside from all that, is there a concern that 4* champions, like Aegon, will rip through parts of Act 6 that you don't want? That would seem more like a direct reason than some of this vague explanation. *****

    I'm really trying to understand this.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    MarzGroove said:

    Campo4 said:

    Campo4 said:

    So I can bring a Rank 1 Level 1 unduped 5* Antman to Act 6, but I can't bring a 5/50 Sig 99 4* Archangel.

    In all seriousness, @Kabam Miike would you guys consider gating it by challenger rating instead of star level/rarity?

    i.e. 4* 5/50 and 5* 3/45 and above only?

    My point is, you guys invented challenger rating to essentially say a 5/50 is the same power level as a 3/45. They take similar amount of catalysts to rank, and have similar stats. Yet the way you are gating Act 6 doesn't take this into consideration. You can bring an extremely low level 5*, but not your most powerful 4*.

    I am personally not for any gating, however I think this would be a good compromise. It would be more about making sure players have the right roster for the job, and less about who is getting lucky with 5* pulls.

    I like this. If you are going to gate it at all, gate the content to Challenge Rating >= 90 or 100.
    They aren't gating to power level of the champs, but rather (to oversimplify a lot) the effort required to acquire them. A 5/50 has similar strength to a 3/45, but the 3/45 is much harder to acquire.
    Not hard at all...38 minutes left to get that increased chance 5* Ghost just now. It’s only money.
    Shhh, don't tell anyone but I just snagged one of those crystals without having to spend money. However, it seems harder to get a 5* from them than you thought: mine only had a 3* in it. Maybe I need to try harder next time.
    On a side note, I’m not sure who is flagging our dialogue. But they likely don’t spend a lot of time on forums if either of these comments offended them.

    Dr. Zola
    I'm sure you're aware but for the record whether I disagree with you or agree with you, I don't use flags to express disagreement. They aren't coming from me.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★
    There has been some uproar. Act 6 has been hyped for weeks now, big is in the disappointment that Kabam have put champion requirements. Many speak of the end of the 4*. But is that necessarily bad? Let me start with a story.

    As everyone else, I started this game a year ago with two 1*: Spider-Man and Wolverine (Iron Man was another option). In the beginning I levelled them up, but from the moment I got my first 2* I abandoned them quite fast. I didn't mourn them, I knew that was the natural progression of the game.

    As I ranked my 2* up to rank 3, I got my first 3*, Winter Soldier. Costs to level-up 2* were growing and it was economically more efficient to invest my precious gold and ISO-8 into Winter Soldier rather than my Black Panther (Civil War), which I loved playing with very much (yes, I know he's technically thrash but foolish newbie me liked his animations and he did get the job done). I didn't mourn them, I knew that was the natural progression of the game.

    To progress in the game as fast as possible, I levelled-up the strongest of my 3*. I abandoned my Winter Soldier at 2/20, in favor for Hyperion, Mephisto and Stark Spidey. But progress also meant I was getting my first 4*. These were Red Hulk, Bishop and Taskmaster. As I maxed out my strongest three, I start to switch more and more to 4*. My awakened Hyperion lasted the longest, I even used him in AQ, but as soon as I got a 4* Hyperion he was condemned to the dust bin as well, only to be used as arena fodder. I didn't mourn them, I knew that was the natural progression of the game.

    4* are a curious tier. They were long the highest tier. Then came 5* and now even 6*. The progression of this game is relentless. It is normal for 4* to share the same fate as 3*. If Kabam banned 3* from Act 5, would anyone protest? No, as the realisation that 3* is not part of anyone's roster when going for uncollected is evident. Neither should 4* when players are going for Act 6

    So why do players resist? Nostalgia, partly, but it is deeper. The game shifts towards synergies, and gave 4* a second life. I do think Kabam is to blame for this, in an effort to entice players into buying more crystals, they made gameplay more dependent not only on getting that one champion once or even twice, but a whole matching set of champions. They reap what they sow: like junkies, players cannot function without their signature abilities and synergies. You could even say that players are spoiled, it is not enough to play good, but to play at maximum potential. The alternative seems impossible.

    It is all folly. As Kabam makes acquiring 5* crystal shards easier and (demi) god tier champions more plentiful, the need for 4* will continue to drop in the future. 4* are a dead end street. I know it and deep down, everyone else does to.

    Dear protesters full of indignation, do not be the Don Quichots fighting against wind mills. Do not be like the rusty old folks, stuck in a past that doesn't exist anymore. Do not be the flat earthers, denying reality. Embrace the progress of this game. Adapt to it. Say goodbye to your 4*.
  • Maximus_SpankersonMaximus_Spankerson Posts: 445 ★★
    With that full page of "explanation", I haven't heard one actual good reason WHY 4*s are being frozen out.
    They alluded to Variant class gates and its intent to force summoners to come up with alternative solutions (ex. Hawkeye for power control), but no good reason, no reason at all was provided for restricting lower rarities in Act 6.

    I am sorry, but that response wasn't just good enough, it wasn't a response at all
  • IsItthoughIsItthough Posts: 254 ★★
    Colinwhitworth69 said:

    Jiren1234_ said:

    I honestly don’t care about the synergy aspect of it (which is what many players are complaining about). I just want to be able to use my 5/50 4* and mind you they are still useful. I wouldn’t have been able to easily breeze through the final ultron boss of 5.4.6, many uncollected bosses, and other content without my 5/50 void. Hulk and BW really helped with poison lanes and spiked armor, and AA was so useful for modok from 5.4.4. If we have specific counters to some champs as 4*, why shouldn’t we be able to use them? Thoughts?

    Kabam is presenting us with a new challenge. You might need to work on your roster a while before doing Act 6. I know I will. If they had made Act 6 just a somewhat harder version of Act 5, the veteran players would be done with it in a week or two and then demanding something else. This will keep everyone busy a while. No problem with that, IMO.
    I've been working on a roster for 4 years, and veteran players will do it in a few days regardless. Look how many finished Variant a weeks time. None of that explains why the last few years of building a roster should not be used in content. At this point if the game went to a gears based system I'd be all for it. At least I can remove the **** luck I have in opening crystals and continue enjoying the game. How does killing half my roster keep me busy? The only thing it does is make me not want to push anything, because guess what next chapter only 6* mutant champs will be used.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,756 ★★★★★
    What's the problem with waiting to be able to complete? Everyone is that hard up to finish it 100% in 2 hours?
  • NOOOOOOOOPEEEEENOOOOOOOOPEEEEE Posts: 2,803 ★★★★★
    I can understand why people are upset though, some people only have certain characters as 4* for synergy purposes so they use that champ as they the highest tier they have to fill that synergy slot.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    You need a tl;dr version.
  • 1_ShuNeu_11_ShuNeu_1 Posts: 375 ★★★
    TL;DR
  • KillerWhaleKillerWhale Posts: 6
    TLDR
  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    So my max, sig max level 4* SL isn’t as viable as my r1 5* non awakened SL?
    So my max sig, max level 4* Magik isn’t as good as my r1 5* non awakened Magik?

    You get the point. Many people have champs in both rarities, but because we don’t have them awakened, like in SL’s case, the 5* collects dust.

    Why punish us? Is it simply because of synergies?
  • KillerWhaleKillerWhale Posts: 6
    I just want to thank Kabam Team. After 5 months of heavy grinding and a couple thousand spent, I’m quitting at 5.3. The champ requirements are beyond discouraging to up and coming players. Mercy of the crystals. Also thanks for no heads up on AI change which wrecked my one long term champ ghost haha. Oh well.
    If kabam has smart marketing team, they would have updated uncollected crystals to cavalier to prep players for act6, instead your encouraging whales to whale out harder. Sounds smart on paper I guess, but good luck you. I am truly excited to venture back my precious time and money back into my other hobbies. Had a good time playing though and had some great times! Peace!
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 369 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    LeNoirFaineant said:

    @DNA3000 nice post. I’m not that fussed about it but I wish they would find another solution. I feel like barring a sizable portion of everyone’s rosters for all future story quests is too high a price to pay. Just curious. Having read the explanation do you think this particular gate is a good idea?

    It isn't how I would have done it, but that's not an entirely fair criticism. For one thing, while I don't know what specific imperatives the devs are operating under, I would probably have saved any gate like this for whatever follows Act 6 (which I refer to as Act 7, although it might not be called that). The reasoning is that Act 6 is the last chapter of an entire story arc, and it might be more palatable conceptually for whatever happens next to have a more abrupt progress gate controlling access to it. This would also have given more time to get people used to gates like this: eliminating 2* and 3* champs from early Act 6, say, and eliminating CR80 and lower from later Act 6.

    I'm also more in favor of single hurdle gates than lockouts. One idea I think has a lot of merit is an idea I heard Brian Grant mention in a recent stream. He proposed the idea that the 5*/6* prerequisite being something that players could either unlock or somehow mitigate. For example (and this is my thoughts, not his, although there is overlap) you might require the first run through to be restricted to 5* and 6* champions, but perhaps different paths could have keys like Act 5.3 that unlock the ability to use, say, 4* Skill champs, or 4* Spiderverse champs in your team. Alternatively, Act 6 could award Act 6 special currency that you could use in a special store to unlock certain additional types of champs. Since everyone is different, players could work towards unlocking their own specific needs, like (lower level) Quantum champs or Bleed immune champs or whatever. There would be some additional strategy to how you ran different paths to then make additional runs progressively easier, or at least have more options.

    I'm not *opposed* to the straight up 5*/6* gate, in that I think it is just a hurdle to overcome that isn't terrible to overcome. On a *technical* level I think it is fine. But on a *psychological* level, I think players are much more willing to accept hardship if they think they can work through it to get to some better result at the other end. The Act 6 gate probably looks to most players less like a speed bump, or even a hurdle, and more of a constant cost. You can't "overcome" it, and giving players the means to overcome a hurdle tends to make hurdles far less controversial.

    I'm a firm believer that the best game design is invisible. When it works right, players hardly notice it is there. You can't always do that, but it should always be the standard to strive for.

    To answer your question directly, I think the gate is a good idea in the sense that I believe it does things that will ultimately be beneficial to the game as a whole. On the other hand, I think the gate picks a fight with the playerbase that I don't think is a good idea, because I think it could be avoided.
    @DNA3000 Interesting and well written posts, Do you have a development/software background ?

    Yes i agree with that we do not know the imperatives that the devs are working under, but at the same time this could of and should of been communicated long before it was. This is a huge change and has a very significant impact on players rosters as well as the value of content now in game. Take for example the classic Cap Marvel legendary crystal offer. Pre act 6 announcement it would of probably been more appealing. Post act 6 announcement you now essentially have 80% chance to pay $40 for a useless 4* Champion which effectively makes this look overpriced. This also throws into question then if the rewards while progressing are adequate or if they allow a player to smoothly transition from one piece of content to the next. Should they not of released a 5* basic arena before implementing this ? Should the rewards bracket not of been exapnded prior to this ? With the 5/6* requirement in mind while developing was it ethical for them to be promoting the 4* offers without informing us they have a shelf life ?
    These are some of the things that should of been considered when developing this content


    I think applying this kind of restriction on a story quest is just wrong. Had it been variant #2, it would of been less of a big deal, as stuff like that people see as a luxury to be completed once they acquire better champs and improve their roster. Story quests have always been used to advance in the game. Kabam themselves
    "Story Quests are a great way to advance yourself in The Contest. Complete Acts 2 through 4 to receive valuable rewards including Crystals, Catalysts, ISO-8, and Titles." taken from a old message regarding the introduction of titles.

    I would also say i'm not against progression gates, but this type of progression gate is based entirely on luck in crystal openings or spending money on crystals. I opened a 5* the other day and managed to pull a Iceman for the first time. He was released 2 years ago. There are new buffs in act 6 which cause degen. It has already been said that GHulk would mitigate this. Now these buffs are global buffs. Lets say It takes me two years to get the correct rarity of Ghulk (5 or 6* version). My only other option to combat this mechanic in the mean time is throw money/units at it. Is that really what i should be expected to do when i have a 4* version which is just slightly weaker then a r3 5*. The resources to take champions to r4 are not easy to come by so chances are most of your 5* roster will be sitting at r3. So should i really be punished this much for not being lucky or spending money on crystals. Is this a fair system ?
    The game has come along way since the beginning and is extremely complex in the sense you will rarely find champions that interact the same way in terms of abilities and interactions with other mechanics and nodes.

    In all honesty i cant think of any other game that prevents progress based on rarity that can't be farmed.
    So don't see how having this type of gate on the main story quest would prove beneficial to the game .
    I actually see this as potential to be detrimental to the game. Players hitting a road block in tackling content without the right champs, getting frustrated their luck is no good in crystal openings and then deciding to play something else. Of course steps can be taken to improve this like introducing 5* Basic arena and increasing brackets etc, but in the current state it doesn't work in my opinion.
  • Bfyffe28Bfyffe28 Posts: 41
    RandomizerRuns_4 said:

    I don’t even know why this is still a debate. You would think... if they actually listened to us, they would be like...

    Well... f***. Looks like 90% of our player base is pretty peeved about this one decision that makes little to no sense at all. Instead of giving a BS excuse with a BS statement... maybe just reverse the decision?

    But nope Lol

    They’re setting this up as 2 or 3 part milking. They’ll let the whales and people who’re impatient blow their load the first month on fgmcs and legend runs then will come back with the trusty, After looking over the data we have decided to allow 4 stars to be used. Please come in and blow your money. They’ll also phrase it somehow like they’re doing us a favor.
  • MaatManMaatMan Posts: 958 ★★★
    Liss_Bliss_ said:

    So my max, sig max level 4* SL isn’t as viable as my r1 5* non awakened SL?
    So my max sig, max level 4* Magik isn’t as good as my r1 5* non awakened Magik?

    You get the point. Many people have champs in both rarities, but because we don’t have them awakened, like in SL’s case, the 5* collects dust.

    Why punish us? Is it simply because of synergies?

    they feel you are not yet experienced enough and you need to make your roster grow before you are good enough for act 6.
    the potential in those 5* needs to be unleashed before you are ready.

    thats kabams point
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019
    All this talk about money, you don't need to spend. By the time you make it to Act 6, you have a decent amount of 5*s. Plain and simple. Reagrdless of whether you have all the best or not. If not, the whole roadblock idea is more sound because people are making it there with underdeveloped Accounts. Bottom line is, no one needs to spend. You get Champs from playing the game. The real issue is people want to do it the day it comes out, and don't want to wait. That's entirely possible. If you're sitting around waiting fot God Tier drops, then yes, you'll have to wait. Either way, all you need is 5*s and 6*s. The rest is just conjecture. Any Offer is just going to be attached to this with some anterior motive accusation.
  • loader187loader187 Posts: 222 ★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Remember when the first time youd try act 3 or act 4 with less than minimal 3 and 4*? Its just the same thing here. You'll have to either try it with what you have or wait till your built up again with better options.

    It has nothing to do with that. The fact that I have a 5* Aegon maxed and use his starlord synergy to help for accidental hits from a mess up or lag in the game. I can't use that anymore because I don't have a 5* starlord or 5-6* proxima midnight. I don't know any game that takes away stuff that I earned and worked for. What is the big deal to use a 4*? Make 5* only cost 2-5k in shards than. If you are forcing us than make it easier to get 5*. Like Seatin said. "Absolute rubbish"
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,144 ★★★★★
    Why not have one easy path that allows 4* for those of us who want the Cavalier title, and all the other hard paths restricted to 5* & 6* for the end game whales who will be competing for the legend title?
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