Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

Hey All,

We've just announced the newest addition to the Contest that will be coming in Act 6 Chapter 2! Learn all about Class and Rarity gates here, and then ask any questions you may have and discuss with your fellow Summoners in this thread!

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RagamugginGunner

Think back to how long it took us to build up to things like Kang, Thanos, Maestro, etc. I highly doubt that people picked up the game and plowed through it. It took time to build Rosters, learn things, Rank Champs, etc. This is permanent content, and it's the highest to date. It's entirely reasonable that it's going to take some time to build up to it for some, I'd even say most, people.

It took much longer for some to get where good players got within the same amount of time. To assume that everyone progresses at a snails pace is a bit silly.

DNA3000

Miike Can you also answer us how 5* and 6* shards became more accessible after 6.1. went out ? other than spending tons of money on cavalier crystals and other cash offers ?
I have never spend a single cent of actual cash on a Cavalier crystal. You buy Cavalier crystals with units, not cash, in general. Therefore, they are available even to free to play players that spend zero cash, and just grind units in the game. And it is possible to grind dozens of Cavalier crystals every month through arena grinding. Cavalier crystals are probably one of the best things a free to play player that grinds units can spend those units on, once they've reached Cavalier status.
You are usually on point but this right here is probably the worst suggestion you’ve made in this forum. Grinding requires tremendous amount of time. Let’s say you are above an average grinder and get around 4K-5k units a month and that gives you what? 20-25 cavalier crystals where the odds are mostly stacked against you.

Those units are better spent on exploring Endgame content or buying occasionally nice unit-based offers.

How people choose to spend their units (or cash, or time) is subject to personal preference, but in my opinion spending units on end game content - things like Variant or LoL, say - implies you have to spend a lot of units to complete that content. To me, that says you aren't ready, and instead of spending units to spend past that content you should work on improving your skills and roster. That content isn't going anywhere, so spending a lot of units to clear it today is not in my opinion efficient use of resources. It would be better to spend less units tomorrow, or zero units later. Right now it is clear that the future of progress involves having a wider and more diverse roster, and that's how I'm going to spend my units (at least some of them: I also think it is worth saving for the occasional high value offer when it comes to rank up materials). And to be frank, in my opinion that's always been obviously true, which is why that's the long term strategy I've been following since I knew enough about the game to have a long term strategy.

I've done the analysis, and that's my recommendation, and that's also what I'm doing. By in large, I think I've done pretty well following my progress strategy over time, but I'm also the kind of player with very long range horizons. But at the end of the day, if someone doesn't believe my analysis, they shouldn't follow it. They won't be happy following a strategy they don't believe in. I can't prove its the correct strategy like with an equation or something. The calculations inform my judgment, but then at some point you have to use your best judgment.

I believe I'm a better player because I didn't spend past content. I believe that puts me in a better position than had I spent past that content and got the rewards for that content sooner than later. This is probably the single most important judgment call I make that someone else might strongly disagree with. Take that for what it is worth. Disagree with this, and my strategy mostly falls apart. But I'm willing to hang my hat on it.

DrZola

Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.
Which is actually nothing.

Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
The Cavalier Crystals are not the only access to 6*s and 5*s that we have. Overall, they've become more available than when they were introduced. This is not only some random statement. They have the data to back up that claim. They're not widely available for everyone in the game, but neither is this content.
We're being told that we have more access to 5*s and 6*s after being cavalier. True technically but a dishonest statement in practice unless we spend. All the grinding in the world for cavalier crystals won't put a dent in our progression.
That depends on the RNG. It's not necessary to spend thousands. As DNA pointed out, Grinding provides Units to try. Also worth pointing out that those who are Cavalier have access to 5*s and 6*s in other areas of the game, naturally through UC.
That's exactly my point. It's depends on RNG and the odds are bad. The math says spending 4000 grinded units a month gets us 20 cav crystals or 240 crystals a year. If you're grinding 4000 units a month (if you have a huge roster and all the time in the world in first ) it could get you 24 5*s and 2.4 6*s. Also known as trash.

You guys call this good access to 5s and 6s?

If so, then I have access to hundreds of millions of dollars twice a week. I’m sure my family will be relieved.

It’s as easy as getting the right 6 numbers!

Dr. Zola

Deckard

Dear Kabam,

I am not impressed... not one bit. This decision right here is simply poor decision. I believe its bad for business, for playerbase and a game itself.
Why do you restrict champions we play? And you do it in such a rng way. I earn a champion, buy a champion or grind a champion, I want to the play that freakin champion. You really expect players to focus on thier 6/r2 deadpools rather than 5/r5 dominos? 6 star trash champions over god tier 5 champions? And we invested resources to them already. Very rare resources. Don’t let me start about synergies you ruined so far.
I know its just a tiny piece of an endgame content we’re talking about but mcoc has a strategy involved. Strategy in ranking up your champions, managing resources and rotating your heros between aw/aq/quests. You telling me „we wish you good crystal pulls” is not part of my strategy.
What happend to those keys that are part of a act 5 design? Restrict paths with those keys again. Why not do the same? Or let these keys be obtained in some side quest. I don’t know... something like: one champion, 5 opponents, crazy nodes but no revives. Make it a challange, skill based not rng dependent.
One thing I just cannot understand: how can you ignore so much feedback? And even do opposit! You really have no compelling ideas? So use your forums, make a contest, let people design fun and interractive quests. Let’s vote the best one. Award an author with a 5*. This is more likely business-friendly path for a people that must deliver results within thier company.

Leaving feedback,
D.

GroundedWisdom

Think back to how long it took us to build up to things like Kang, Thanos, Maestro, etc. I highly doubt that people picked up the game and plowed through it. It took time to build Rosters, learn things, Rank Champs, etc. This is permanent content, and it's the highest to date. It's entirely reasonable that it's going to take some time to build up to it for some, I'd even say most, people.
It took much longer for some to get where good players got within the same amount of time. To assume that everyone progresses at a snails pace is a bit silly.

I didn't say anything about the pace. I made the point that there are progress points in the game that required us to work towards them. People grow at different paces, naturally. What I was highlighting was that there are various stages within Storymode that we had to work up to. That doesn't change after a certain point. Otherwise there's no use in adding new levels.

IKON

Seems like this happens every time, so here's a handy guide.

1. Community loses its mind <- you are here
2. Content is released, and community completes content and realizes it wasn't as bad as expected
3. Everybody moves on

Longtimegamer

Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.
Which is actually nothing.

Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
And yet, I don't get masters rewards, don't spend in general on crystals, don't attempt to pay to win, don't play the game like a second job, and still continue to progress in this game just fine. And my luck with crystal pulls is average at best. What I am I doing that everyone else you've ever seen doesn't do?

I'm not sure how to argue against someone telling me something is impossible, that I am literally actually doing. That would seem to be absolute proof by counter-example, but it is so obvious I'm not sure how to prove something that is actually happening now is possible.

Part of the problem, I suspect, is that I don't pay to win because I'm making no attempt to "win." I don't even know what winning in this game means. I only play it, progress as best I can, and constantly try to get better as a player and stronger in my overall roster. I know getting better is the only thing you can do in this kind of game, because there's no end aside from shutdown. There's only progress, measured by your own standard of progress.

If someone is paying to win, I'm curious to know what they won that I lost. You can pay to win a war, but that's not a war I likely lost. You can pay to strengthen your roster enough to join a top alliance, but that's a reward I have no interest in obtaining. I'm only interested in building my roster, improving my skills, and tackling the content. And that is objectively easier to do now than in the past, and getting easier as time passes. That's objectively true. The fact that it isn't enough for some people doesn't make it less true, it just makes their expectations higher than the game currently wants to provide. That's true for every game: however fast the game hands out rewards, it will be too slow for some players, and too fast for others. Some will get frustrated and quit, some will get bored and quit. You can only address one group by making things worse for the other.

You have 310k+ PVP fights and say you don't play the game like a second job?

And that Cav crystals are one of the best things for f2p guys?

And that they can grind 4000 units a month for good access to 5* and 6* champs?

What exactly are those 2 6*s and 24 5* champs (of which 80% which are only useful in arena) that you get from painfully grinding 4000 units a month and forgoing most content going to do for you "progression"?

You could go years without getting anyone good from this strategy. Or is your definition of progress pounding a screen 10 000 times a day, skipping content or delaying it in perpetuity, and waiting to clear content with whatever frustrating junk turns up in the roster?

xNig

"The requirements in Chapter 1 are set as a primer for rest of Act 6. Act 6 Chapter 2 and beyond will also have Champion Requirements, including some more stringent ones like paths that have Class Requirements for your entire team, and Rarity requirements where you must bring [X] amount of 5-Star or 6-Star Champions to complete the quest path."

That's why I saved this message posted by mike, I knew this was going to happen.

Don't like how they write 5* and 6* are getting much easier to gain. Compared to olden times? yes, then again that's an asinine comparison, but monthly event quest rewards have not been updated in a long time (of course, I'M SURE the usual suspects are fine with that). I'm just assuming they are referring to cavalier crystals. So basically it's easier to obtain 5 and 6* for loads of $.

I bet that path that requires 4 6* will have a bunch of enemies and nodes that require a ton of utility, since 6* rosters are not that deep, it will be a thorny and bloody path. Of course! No matter! Wait until you have a better roster! (wink)

You bet wrong. The path that requires 4 6*s is actually pretty easy.

xNig

I'll just do completion and pretend this content doesn't exist. Four 6* of a single class to do the path? So basically buy hundreds and hundreds of Cav crystals and pray. After about 60 or so I've yet to pull a single 6* and only two good/great 5*, and overall I have a very nice top to my roster. Judging by the looks I'll have put this game down entirely before I have the roster to meet these requirements, well played Kabam, well played.

No. The 6* path and class gated paths are not stacked.

RichardCranium

Cool. Now I know i just have to do single run and not bother worrying about act 6 past that 👍

Kabam making life easier just like that 👌

RogerRabs

"The requirements in Chapter 1 are set as a primer for rest of Act 6. Act 6 Chapter 2 and beyond will also have Champion Requirements, including some more stringent ones like paths that have Class Requirements for your entire team, and Rarity requirements where you must bring [X] amount of 5-Star or 6-Star Champions to complete the quest path."

That's why I saved this message posted by mike, I knew this was going to happen.

Don't like how they write 5* and 6* are getting much easier to gain. Compared to olden times? yes, then again that's an asinine comparison, but monthly event quest rewards have not been updated in a long time (of course, I'M SURE the usual suspects are fine with that). I'm just assuming they are referring to cavalier crystals. So basically it's easier to obtain 5 and 6* for loads of $.

I bet that path that requires 4 6* will have a bunch of enemies and nodes that require a ton of utility, since 6* rosters are not that deep, it will be a thorny and bloody path. Of course! No matter! Wait until you have a better roster! (wink)
You bet wrong. The path that requires 4 6*s is actually pretty easy.

And you know that how?

TJ26

Of course everyone is getting worked up before it’s even in game. Honestly these gates sound way better than having an entire chapter class restricted like Variant 1

xNig

"The requirements in Chapter 1 are set as a primer for rest of Act 6. Act 6 Chapter 2 and beyond will also have Champion Requirements, including some more stringent ones like paths that have Class Requirements for your entire team, and Rarity requirements where you must bring [X] amount of 5-Star or 6-Star Champions to complete the quest path."

That's why I saved this message posted by mike, I knew this was going to happen.

Don't like how they write 5* and 6* are getting much easier to gain. Compared to olden times? yes, then again that's an asinine comparison, but monthly event quest rewards have not been updated in a long time (of course, I'M SURE the usual suspects are fine with that). I'm just assuming they are referring to cavalier crystals. So basically it's easier to obtain 5 and 6* for loads of $.

I bet that path that requires 4 6* will have a bunch of enemies and nodes that require a ton of utility, since 6* rosters are not that deep, it will be a thorny and bloody path. Of course! No matter! Wait until you have a better roster! (wink)
You bet wrong. The path that requires 4 6*s is actually pretty easy.
And you know that how?

Tested that path in the beta.

As usual, the community is overreacting, same case as in 6.1. The moment the content dropped, 99% of the complaints magically stopped.

Rap

Any restriction makes no sense unless your goal is to drive sales. It is not a matter of progression when you spend a year and a half tightening down and preparing in secret. Dump the entire roster into the five star basic and move on to sorting us out by titles. Creating one barrier after another to advancement to prevent advancement based purely on strategy and skill. Setting it all up to funnel all of us into the money stream..."pay to play! Pay to win!" Many of us are fighting against the tide here...and treading water till we give up and leave...that 2 percent who is ready? They are already deeply into the mindset kabam is looking for, player willing to spend to advance.

Longtimegamer

How about this you geniuses?

If you want to encourage players to use their crummy 6*s champs, why not give out better rewards for those who use a crappy team instead of locking 5* and 4*s out entirely?

That's what will make players use more of their roster! You don't accomplish it with force.

"Act 6.2 - you can use whoever the hell you want. If you take in all 6*s for quest _____ you get _____ more rewards."

Now what's wrong with that?

Cliffordcan

I see this as bad move given Apple’s upcoming release of Apple arcade....Kabam needs to find a way to find common ground with the player base. Their competition for players is about to see a huge increase with games that won’t cater to whales and won’t be so RNG/loot box dependent.

Nothing good will come of these continued rarity bans.

I agree with this, not just Apple, Google is and I think there is a 3rd coming as well. I haven’t heard anything about price on these, but if it is decently priced with decent games the F2P/P2W model may dry up. And it it is cheaply priced with amazing games... **** is going to get real fast.

arsjum

These gates and decisions like these will be the death of this game
They said that after 12.0 so....

Except Kabam backpedaled on 12.0 with a big apology and a big compromise with 12.1. Had they not done so, it’s not clear how the future of this game would look like.

But of course the scale of the problem with 12.0 fiasco was much bigger.

Rap

You don't have to put up a 6 star gate if the material is more difficult (maybe that is the point? It isn't?) If someone takes a 4 into material too difficult for a four then the summoner gets his clock cleaned. So why the need to block him trying his skill and luck?

DNA3000

You have 310k+ PVP fights and say you don't play the game like a second job?

No one is willing to pay me to tap on a screen while watching TV. I can assure you, if that ever happens this won't be my second job, this will be my only job.

This is what I do to take my mind off my actual job, which has actual responsibilities and requires real work, and where I'm usually addressing issues a million times more serious than "cannot intercept Thanos." Compared to my real job, the arguments on the forums are about as consequential as who wins Animal Planet's Puppy Bowl every year.

This is a hobby. I've spent more time reading books than playing MCOC. No one has accused me of treating reading as a second job. Because that would be ridiculous.

Rap

If his skills have progressed faster than his roster??? (Which happens) you are just shutting him out of moving on.

GroundedWisdom

You don't have to put up a 6 star gate if the material is more difficult (maybe that is the point? It isn't?) If someone takes a 4 into material too difficult for a four then the summoner gets his clock cleaned. So why the need to block him trying his skill and luck?

The point is not just to make it more difficult. If it was, they would make it so. Subsequently, the days of taking a 2* SW into ROL are gone.
The point is to separate levels of progress. In order to move through the gate, you need a certain amount of progress, in the form of your Roster.

DNA3000

Seems like this happens every time, so here's a handy guide.

1. Community loses its mind <- you are here
2. Content is released, and community completes content and realizes it wasn't as bad as expected
3. Everybody moves on</blockquote>

I don't think everyone realizes they were wrong. That didn't happen with 6.1, or with earlier things. I think it is more the case that when content is first announced but not yet released, most people don't have much to say about it. The people most likely to comment are people with objections. So initially it can seem like the people with objections represent everyone, or at least are the overwhelmingly dominant position. But once the content is released, that changes. Players with nothing to say initially now have first hand experience. Some of them echo the objections that previous players make, but many more now have a different opinion they are more willing to express. Some people change their minds, but the ones that don't find they aren't in the overwhelming majority of expression anymore. This dampens the energy surrounding those objections.

This too is likely to follow a similar pattern. Most people are simply withholding comment until the content is released. And while most people commenting now are self-selected to have objections, most of the people who attempt it when released are more likely to be able to complete it, than not complete it, and that will make the objections seem less universal or dominant. This is part of the reason why it is dangerous to assume the forums are representative of the playerbase as a whole. Sometimes they self-select negative comments, and sometimes they self-select favorable or less objectionable ones, and that often happens in waves.

arsjum

"The requirements in Chapter 1 are set as a primer for rest of Act 6. Act 6 Chapter 2 and beyond will also have Champion Requirements, including some more stringent ones like paths that have Class Requirements for your entire team, and Rarity requirements where you must bring [X] amount of 5-Star or 6-Star Champions to complete the quest path."

That's why I saved this message posted by mike, I knew this was going to happen.

Don't like how they write 5* and 6* are getting much easier to gain. Compared to olden times? yes, then again that's an asinine comparison, but monthly event quest rewards have not been updated in a long time (of course, I'M SURE the usual suspects are fine with that). I'm just assuming they are referring to cavalier crystals. So basically it's easier to obtain 5 and 6* for loads of $.

I bet that path that requires 4 6* will have a bunch of enemies and nodes that require a ton of utility, since 6* rosters are not that deep, it will be a thorny and bloody path. Of course! No matter! Wait until you have a better roster! (wink)
You bet wrong. The path that requires 4 6*s is actually pretty easy.

You know, I was actually planning to ask you how hard 6.2 was but I assumed you would not yet be in liberty to talk about it.

DNA3000

These gates and decisions like these will be the death of this game
They said that after 12.0 so....
Except Kabam backpedaled on 12.0 with a big apology and a big compromise with 12.1.

Did they? The biggest complaints from 12.0 were flat stats, DR, CR, and the heavy nerfs to select champions. Flat stats stayed. DR stayed. CR was adjusted, but mostly stayed (and most of the complaints about it turned out to be completely off-base anyway). The biggest un-nerf was to Captain America's block. They added back some heal to Dr. Strange that most people complained was inadequate. And they removed the original base values for things like critical resistance and block penetration, but kept both stats in the game so they could be used moving forward (which they have).

At the time, a lot of people called the "big compromise" a "big sell out" because many of the bigger names associated with the boycott accepted the changes as reasonable steps forward. But no one at the time characterized 12.0.1 and 12.1 as "big compromises" by Kabam that I can recall. The sentiment at the time was very negative on the forums and the reddit.

With hindsight, overall Kabam probably made the right call there.

xNig

"The requirements in Chapter 1 are set as a primer for rest of Act 6. Act 6 Chapter 2 and beyond will also have Champion Requirements, including some more stringent ones like paths that have Class Requirements for your entire team, and Rarity requirements where you must bring [X] amount of 5-Star or 6-Star Champions to complete the quest path."

That's why I saved this message posted by mike, I knew this was going to happen.

Don't like how they write 5* and 6* are getting much easier to gain. Compared to olden times? yes, then again that's an asinine comparison, but monthly event quest rewards have not been updated in a long time (of course, I'M SURE the usual suspects are fine with that). I'm just assuming they are referring to cavalier crystals. So basically it's easier to obtain 5 and 6* for loads of $.

I bet that path that requires 4 6* will have a bunch of enemies and nodes that require a ton of utility, since 6* rosters are not that deep, it will be a thorny and bloody path. Of course! No matter! Wait until you have a better roster! (wink)
You bet wrong. The path that requires 4 6*s is actually pretty easy.
You know, I was actually planning to ask you how hard 6.2 was but I assumed you would not yet be in liberty to talk about it.

Well.. it’s hard, very hard (some paths), at least in the beta. So feedback was given and there should be changes and adjustments.

Similarly, if 6.1 came out the way it was in the beta, there would have been a lot more complaints. 😂

This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

MavRCK_

Bad idea again Kabam. Was almost going to spend and then you released this information... smh..

arsjum

These gates and decisions like these will be the death of this game
They said that after 12.0 so....
Except Kabam backpedaled on 12.0 with a big apology and a big compromise with 12.1.
Did they? The biggest complaints from 12.0 were flat stats, DR, CR, and the heavy nerfs to select champions. Flat stats stayed. DR stayed. CR was adjusted, but mostly stayed (and most of the complaints about it turned out to be completely off-base anyway). The biggest un-nerf was to Captain America's block. They added back some heal to Dr. Strange that most people complained was inadequate. And they removed the original base values for things like critical resistance and block penetration, but kept both stats in the game so they could be used moving forward (which they have).

At the time, a lot of people called the "big compromise" a "big sell out" because many of the bigger names associated with the boycott accepted the changes as reasonable steps forward. But no one at the time characterized 12.0.1 and 12.1 as "big compromises" by Kabam that I can recall. The sentiment at the time was very negative on the forums and the reddit.

With hindsight, overall Kabam probably made the right call there.

You must have forgotten the way SW and Thor were nerfed to the ground in 12.0 but had restored to a significant degree in 12.0.1. Watch DDD’s comparison video for an example. And what was the big compensation package that came with 12.0.1 if not an apology?

GroundedWisdom

These gates and decisions like these will be the death of this game
They said that after 12.0 so....
Except Kabam backpedaled on 12.0 with a big apology and a big compromise with 12.1.
Did they? The biggest complaints from 12.0 were flat stats, DR, CR, and the heavy nerfs to select champions. Flat stats stayed. DR stayed. CR was adjusted, but mostly stayed (and most of the complaints about it turned out to be completely off-base anyway). The biggest un-nerf was to Captain America's block. They added back some heal to Dr. Strange that most people complained was inadequate. And they removed the original base values for things like critical resistance and block penetration, but kept both stats in the game so they could be used moving forward (which they have).

At the time, a lot of people called the "big compromise" a "big sell out" because many of the bigger names associated with the boycott accepted the changes as reasonable steps forward. But no one at the time characterized 12.0.1 and 12.1 as "big compromises" by Kabam that I can recall. The sentiment at the time was very negative on the forums and the reddit.

With hindsight, overall Kabam probably made the right call there.
You must have forgotten the way SW and Thor were nerfed to the ground in 12.0 but had restored to a significant degree in 12.0.1. Watch DDD’s comparison video for an example. And what was the big compensation package that came with 12.0.1 if not an apology?

It was an Adjustment Package, technically. It was to adjust our Rosters to the changes.

Rap

Kabam, this news is really disappointing and here is why. I have worked and ground add infinitum to build a beautiful 4 star roster and you have stollen every ounce of joy from that long effort and made me feel like it was a huge waste of time and effort because i have now have zero reason to rank even 1 more 4! Or to aquire even one more 4, except for the sake of any 5 star shards it might gain me. My 5 star roster is limited and unexciting and to obtain them i must again grind add infinitum for shards and 4s that are now useless to me...i am not gonna give you 4 more years of MY LIFE! Or any of my money! It is not easier to get 5s as GW claims. There are more opportunities to get lucky with the rng but that isn't for all of us...since the beginning i have endured through one road block to "progression" after another! No t4c at all for solo players until after the great dumping began. You have put players like me between a rock and a hard place. I can grind up shards in the five star arena but i do not have the roster to rank or win the champ so i am looking at months and months of grinding for "shards" and sorry guys! All the fun went out of that a long long time ago! So again let me say it loud and clear! It is time to lower the number of shards to build a 5 star crystal...yesterday wouldn't have been soon enough! Do it now and regain some of our faith after this debacle of an "endgame" event!