Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

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  • MetalJakeMetalJake Posts: 343 ★★
    Until then, we’ll have 3-5 weeks of harder maps with same outdated rewards.

    Jaded said:

    Jaded said:

    The statement was made that no changes to the Rewards are coming. Not that they're coming later. I know what I responded to.

    No one said they aren’t giving an update to rewards. Everyone has said they are giving us the new harder map for season 10 with a expected reward increase in season 11. No one has said otherwise.
    Yes, they did. People commented that there was NO REWARDS BOOST. That's what I commented on. Read the Thread again.
    We are talking about season 10. There is no reward increase for season 10. Your comments are pointless at this time. Please direct yourself out of the conversation.
    We're talking about the new Maps and upcoming changes to War. For which the Rewards will increase with Defence Tactics in Season 11. I know what we're here discussing. I'm not leaving, sorry.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,408 ★★★★★

    Patchie93 said:

    People are forgetting that a season or 2 ago Kabam stated quite clearly that the War map is not designed to be 100% every war. They want alliances to not finish the map every war thus creating closer and closer wars

    If you'll recall, that was during ongoing iterations where people complained the Map was too easy, and that the Win came down to a few Points in Diversity. They reiterated their goal was that the Map was meant to be a challenge. That's been the goal all along. I don't see reason to bring that up much later, since we've had a number of revisions since then. It is, and always was, intended to be challenging at the very top. However many adjustments it takes to get there.
    No one was complaining that the map was too easy. We were complaining that by dropping defender kills every war was being decided before they started by defensive rating. It also had nothing to do with making the map "challenging at the top". It always has been. But thank you for playing.
  • Carmel1Carmel1 Posts: 449 ★★★

    So a little background on Season 11 Rewards Update:

    We discussed the Reward Changes quite a bit, and the decision was made to hold back the Rewards update until Season 11, because we want that update to coincide with the addition of Defence Tactics.

    While the Maps are new, and getting used to something new is never without Challenge, there isn't really an intended bump to difficulty with this Map update. There are more "mini-bosses", but not all of them have strong Buffs on them (nodes 15, 18, 20, 37, 41, 43, 44, 46, 47 don't have the big boosts found on other mini-boss nodes), and you will no longer be on your own to take them down.

    Defence Tactics is the biggest update we've made to Alliance Wars since Seasons were introduced, and while we wanted to have them live for Season 10, the feedback we received that it was soon, and we needed to get these Maps out to everybody first.

    “and you will no longer be on your own to take them down.”
    News flash:
    To have other players with me doesn’t take the pressure the finish a fight without dying, boost, heal to max before the fight and heal to max after the fight.

    And it’s not just more minis, it’s also stronger nodes with “unavoidable” damage like thorns, starburst etc...

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★
    Defender Kills have nothing to do with intending the Map to be difficult to complete.
  • JustapilgrimJustapilgrim Posts: 239 ★★
    Rasilover said:

    the Inverted Bleed node is so lame.
    how do you defeat void without degening to death? without Corvus or nick?

    Omega red would work fine for that node
  • xNigxNig Posts: 6,501 ★★★★★

    Rasilover said:

    the Inverted Bleed node is so lame.
    how do you defeat void without degening to death? without Corvus or nick?

    Omega red would work fine for that node
    You’ll still take Degen from Void.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,408 ★★★★★

    Defender Kills have nothing to do with intending the Map to be difficult to complete.

    They have everything to do with why people were complaining that wars were no longer being determined by skill but by things like defensive rating, not because the map was too easy like you claimed lol. At the time a Mod commented that defensive rating and diversity were determining wars because both sides were 100%ing the map, which wasn't intended, but they have since dropped that as a thing. Making people fail to 100% the map hasn't been a goal for some time. I think you are a little confused on your recollections, but this is an irrelevant tangent so I suggest we drop it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★

    Defender Kills have nothing to do with intending the Map to be difficult to complete.

    They have everything to do with why people were complaining that wars were no longer being determined by skill but by things like defensive rating, not because the map was too easy like you claimed lol. At the time a Mod commented that defensive rating and diversity were determining wars because both sides were 100%ing the map, which wasn't intended, but they have since dropped that as a thing. Making people fail to 100% the map hasn't been a goal for some time. I think you are a little confused on your recollections, but this is an irrelevant tangent so I suggest we drop it.
    Defender Kills never stopped people from completing the Map. What it did was cost people for every K.O. Which meant effectively, people were using Resources to increase their chances of losing. Skill to get through the Nodes without dying, perhaps. Not skill for people relying on Defender Kills for Wins. Large amounts of Points accumualted for deaths. Back when the Mystic Barrier was a thing, all people had to do was let the opponent K.O. themselves into a Loss. There were a few reasons they were removed, and the current iteration still encourages people to play skillfully while at the same time not docking them for their efforts and use of Items afterwards. Defender Kills didn't have anything to do with making the Map harder to complete. People were scared to keep trying because every K.O. gave Points.
  • MetalJakeMetalJake Posts: 343 ★★
    @Kabam Miike same difficulty?

    Refresh my memory, what's Tankbuster and Psychic Thorns?

    Refresh my memory, what's Tankbuster and Psychic Thorns?

  • MetalJakeMetalJake Posts: 343 ★★
    I wouldn’t be surprised if we get 3 days bwtn 9s end &10s rollout

    Will we get to practice the new map during the off-season when season 9 ends?

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★
    I was there for the entire change. I remember the arguments presented, and it was a bitter haul because people couldn't let go of Defender Kills. Why? They were relying on them for their Wins. You don't even have to play skillfully in some scenarios. You just have to let the other Ally play themsleves to death.
  • Surfin_silverSurfin_silver Posts: 23
    MetalJake said:

    Until then, we’ll have 3-5 weeks of harder maps with same outdated rewards.

    Jaded said:

    Jaded said:

    The statement was made that no changes to the Rewards are coming. Not that they're coming later. I know what I responded to.

    No one said they aren’t giving an update to rewards. Everyone has said they are giving us the new harder map for season 10 with a expected reward increase in season 11. No one has said otherwise.
    Yes, they did. People commented that there was NO REWARDS BOOST. That's what I commented on. Read the Thread again.
    We are talking about season 10. There is no reward increase for season 10. Your comments are pointless at this time. Please direct yourself out of the conversation.
    We're talking about the new Maps and upcoming changes to War. For which the Rewards will increase with Defence Tactics in Season 11. I know what we're here discussing. I'm not leaving, sorry.
    Do you see a boost to rewards? Cause i dont. I really would like to see the increased rewards you’re preaching about lol. All i see is a promise for a potential increase in the future. Season 10 has no increased rewards and is the focal point of current conversation. You’re smart enough to read between the lines and get that lmao no one cares ab season 11 rn. Stop commenting just to comment.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,408 ★★★★★

    Defender Kills have nothing to do with intending the Map to be difficult to complete.

    They have everything to do with why people were complaining that wars were no longer being determined by skill but by things like defensive rating, not because the map was too easy like you claimed lol. At the time a Mod commented that defensive rating and diversity were determining wars because both sides were 100%ing the map, which wasn't intended, but they have since dropped that as a thing. Making people fail to 100% the map hasn't been a goal for some time. I think you are a little confused on your recollections, but this is an irrelevant tangent so I suggest we drop it.
    Defender Kills never stopped people from completing the Map. What it did was cost people for every K.O. Which meant effectively, people were using Resources to increase their chances of losing. Skill to get through the Nodes without dying, perhaps. Not skill for people relying on Defender Kills for Wins. Large amounts of Points accumualted for deaths. Back when the Mystic Barrier was a thing, all people had to do was let the opponent K.O. themselves into a Loss. There were a few reasons they were removed, and the current iteration still encourages people to play skillfully while at the same time not docking them for their efforts and use of Items afterwards. Defender Kills didn't have anything to do with making the Map harder to complete. People were scared to keep trying because every K.O. gave Points.
    Wow you are really missing the point. Everything you are saying about the topic is irrelevant. I only brought up defender kills because their removal was the reason people were complaining, rather than what you alleged. Rehashing why they were removed or whether they should have been is irrelevant to the discussion. We are talking about two totally different things and consequently are talking past each other. It isn't worth trying to come to terms though, because it has little to do with the discussion at hand.
  • I thought they scrapped Defender Rating Points when they scrapped Defender Kill points? Didn't they both go before the addition of Diversity and the current iteration of the War maps? Initial placement rating was able to be manipulated by boosts taboot if I'm not mistaken. This is still true (in a certain sense) as you can Boost right before you place and the initial numbers for your individual defender rating will remained locked in when the game tallies up for MVP (last I checked anyway). Doesn't transfer over to the Map itself though. So weird.

    That system was INDEED faulty and the current point system does award more for skill due to attack bonuses. Much better overall. Gotta wonder how much these new nodes will change the final attack bonus outcome... for some it's for sure gonna put a dent in their point output. I REALLY hope we get at MINIMUM 2 war cycles to test this new layout before S10 officially kicks off. I would suspect many will complain about difficulty, while others will praise the Challenge. Can't please everyone afterall, lol.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,408 ★★★★★

    I thought they scrapped Defender Rating Points when they scrapped Defender Kill points? Didn't they both go before the addition of Diversity and the current iteration of the War maps? Initial placement rating was able to be manipulated by boosts taboot if I'm not mistaken. This is still true (in a certain sense) as you can Boost right before you place and the initial numbers for your individual defender rating will remained locked in when the game tallies up for MVP (last I checked anyway). Doesn't transfer over to the Map itself though. So weird.

    That system was INDEED faulty and the current point system does award more for skill due to attack bonuses. Much better overall. Gotta wonder how much these new nodes will change the final attack bonus outcome... for some it's for sure gonna put a dent in their point output. I REALLY hope we get at MINIMUM 2 war cycles to test this new layout before S10 officially kicks off. I would suspect many will complain about difficulty, while others will praise the Challenge. Can't please everyone afterall, lol.

    No there was a time during the various iterations where there were no defender kills and no attack bonus and both sides could max diversity, so if both sides completed 100% the only thing left was defensive rating, in which case the war was really over before it started.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★
    In any event, the point I had originally was there's no sense in going over the past, comments made during other changes had to do with things going on at that time. Somehow that turned into going further into it.
  • I thought they scrapped Defender Rating Points when they scrapped Defender Kill points? Didn't they both go before the addition of Diversity and the current iteration of the War maps? Initial placement rating was able to be manipulated by boosts taboot if I'm not mistaken. This is still true (in a certain sense) as you can Boost right before you place and the initial numbers for your individual defender rating will remained locked in when the game tallies up for MVP (last I checked anyway). Doesn't transfer over to the Map itself though. So weird.

    That system was INDEED faulty and the current point system does award more for skill due to attack bonuses. Much better overall. Gotta wonder how much these new nodes will change the final attack bonus outcome... for some it's for sure gonna put a dent in their point output. I REALLY hope we get at MINIMUM 2 war cycles to test this new layout before S10 officially kicks off. I would suspect many will complain about difficulty, while others will praise the Challenge. Can't please everyone afterall, lol.

    No there was a time during the various iterations where there were no defender kills and no attack bonus and both sides could max diversity, so if both sides completed 100% the only thing left was defensive rating, in which case the war was really over before it started.
    Hrmmm... my memory must be going, lol. I do remember the days of Defender Kills and Rating points though. *shrug* Oh well...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★

    I thought they scrapped Defender Rating Points when they scrapped Defender Kill points? Didn't they both go before the addition of Diversity and the current iteration of the War maps? Initial placement rating was able to be manipulated by boosts taboot if I'm not mistaken. This is still true (in a certain sense) as you can Boost right before you place and the initial numbers for your individual defender rating will remained locked in when the game tallies up for MVP (last I checked anyway). Doesn't transfer over to the Map itself though. So weird.

    That system was INDEED faulty and the current point system does award more for skill due to attack bonuses. Much better overall. Gotta wonder how much these new nodes will change the final attack bonus outcome... for some it's for sure gonna put a dent in their point output. I REALLY hope we get at MINIMUM 2 war cycles to test this new layout before S10 officially kicks off. I would suspect many will complain about difficulty, while others will praise the Challenge. Can't please everyone afterall, lol.

    No there was a time during the various iterations where there were no defender kills and no attack bonus and both sides could max diversity, so if both sides completed 100% the only thing left was defensive rating, in which case the war was really over before it started.
    Hrmmm... my memory must be going, lol. I do remember the days of Defender Kills and Rating points though. *shrug* Oh well...
    He's right. It was still a thing for some time. There was also an argument to the War being determined before it started in terms of Rating, but the same argument was made to Diversity, along with other arguments. Lol.
  • Let’s recap:
    No changes to war rewards even tho there maybe an unintentional increase in difficulty in season 10.
    War rewards will increase after we increase difficulty with Defender tactics in Season 11.
    But. Defender tactics will be on in season 10 for certain tiers.
    But we did not disclose this on the initial posting.
    Sounds like a bait a switch.
    Let’s be honest. Do what you say, and nobody else will cry.
    Be honest, up front. Do not come back 2 weeks later and say “oops, we forgot to say it will be XXXX.
    That’s Is clearly bait and switch.

    I don't think Defender Tactics will be available for any tier during Season 10. They wanted to roll it out all at once, but feedback from the Season 10 Beta suggested it was too much at once. The difficulty increase is apparent though regardless. Not quite sure where the bait and switch comes in here.
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99

    Beta was held on Expert map. My belief was higher tiers were getting a new map like beginner/normal had a different map. Seems like that wasn't the case and no feedback was requested or received from players in the middle tiers.

    So is Defense Tactics going to affect all tiers? Even when you tried to introduce the global node before it was only tried on the top tiers then because they had the roster depth.


    We only plan on adding Defense Tactics to Tiers 1-5 at this time (Expert and Challenger Maps), but still wanted to update the Maps for all Tiers.
    Says it will be added. No additional rewards, with unintentional added difficulty.
    Where was this writing In the original post?
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99
    Oringial post says “ we will not change maps and add defender tactics at the same time, because the change was too much.
    But “We will add it to certain tiers” later on or as we feel fit.
    Come on. You have to stick to your original post. Both changes cannot happen based on “your” feedback from the beta testing.
    Yet you are still ignoring it anyways.
    What is they point of beta testing?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,733 ★★★★★
    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99

    Where did you get that from? Defense Tactics will be added in Season 11. The Maps are changing for Season 10.

    Kabam Miike posted it. I just quote it.
    Perhaps @Kabam Miike needs to address when Defender tactics will take place.
    He said up there it will take place for Tiers1-5. But DID not specify WHEN it would take place. Season 10, 11, 12, 99?
    Or maybe when DCU takes over? 😂

    All we want is clear explanation of when and what will take place.
    Is that too much to ask for?
  • @GroundedWisdom he's right. Miike did say that earlier in the thread. Although I don't think it's spot on. Gonna wait til tomorrow for him to clarify this.
  • Err... later today I should say, lol.
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