Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

Hey Everybody!

We've got another Early Look for you all! This time, we're introducing brand new Maps for all Tiers of Alliance Wars!

We recently ran a Beta for Alliance Wars that featured a number of different Updates to the Mode, and our Beta Players offered us a wealth of feedback. We’ve parsed the data and feedback that we collected, and want to give you all a glimpse into our plans moving forward.

In our Beta, we updated the map and also introduced a new feature called “Defense Tactics”. The Map update introduced a new layout and new Buffs, while Defense Tactics allowed Alliance Leadership to choose a Global Buff to apply to the Map, which allows for Defenses to be more customizable and setup in a more meaningful way.

The feedback we received was that these two major changes together were quite jarring, and that it was too much all at once. We agree with this sentiment so we have decided to stagger the release of the Map update and the release of Defense Tactics (currently scheduled for Season 11).

Read all about the upcoming map changes in the Early Look here!

Comments

hungryhungrybbq

So, yesterday I had a hard time with the reality that the rewards were going yet another season without an update. I still think at least a partial update for season 10 (we acknowledge they are outdated and wish to make the game mode a little more palatable while we test the new map/nodes, please bear with us) with an announcement of a full rewards update to be released with season 11 in line with the current state of the game would be a good idea.
What I was too distracted to mention/acknowledge was that the new map does seem to have made quite a few positive changes to the freedom of movement during attack. This is a good thing.
It's just, I don't know if we'll get an accurate test of them as there will be no incentive to play competitively for the next season. Another idea is to update the individual war rewards, if the season rewards are not getting a full update yet. I understand the desire to roll out the new rewards when the new version of the mode is rolled out in it's entirety, but there has to be some kind of reason to play the mode in order to accurately test it other than... "Well, I guess we'll need to play it for loyalty."
I'm not making these statements because I don't like the game mode. I'm making them because I've always loved the game mode and hope it becomes fun and competitive again soon.

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SiriusBreak

Why is it so hard to understand. If they bump the rewards in season 10, everyone will complain they want more in eleven when the true difficulty increase comes down. They are only doing it once so they wait until the full implementation of the most difficult version is here.
And what exactly is stopping them from increasing the rewards twice? There's also no guarantee Defense Tactics ever get implemented. They were a DISASTER in the Beta.
Why should they bump twice? The first change is just a new map, that has been needed for a long time now. It won't be harder just take a little while to learn new nodes. Not to mention everyone will play it anyway, people come to forums, complain, and go right back to playing.

Well if Loyalty wasn't a necessity for higher Maps... would they REALLY keep playing AW? They've created a situation where one depends on the other. I've seen MANY Alliances already dialing back on AW. Now with this... it's not helping that matter, at all. Here's the reality, increased difficulty for no increase to the output.

More investment, same return. Most people call that bad business and wouldn't invest. However, like I previously stated higher tier AQ and AW are unfortunately symbiotic. So yes, people will continue to play, but not as competitively. Instead of offering up sarcasm and cynical comments, maybe try and help.

We're simply asking for them to meet us in the middle by boosting the individual war rewards for the release of this Map, and then do the Season rework when they drop defense tactics. It's a simple solution that ends up being a win, win for all involved. Here's why.

Would boost incentive to try and WIN wars in getting better rewards. Higher output of rewards will in turn increase player investment in BOTH modes instead of flocking to AQ and half hearted AW play. This isn't rocket science. An increase in Loyalty, makes playing Maps 6 and 7 more feasible without burning through your reserves. An increase and expansion of shard availability would help any player, at ANY level. Finally, being rid of that archaic War Victor Crystal and replace it with the War Season Crystal for the win would increase overall availability of t5bc and t2a frags.

This all gives the players a bone for now, and something nice to look forward too with Season 11. Technically, we're not asking for them to boost them twice. We're asking for them to split it up. Some now, some later. People will only chase a carrot on a stick for so long before they say screw this, and then just go snag some low hanging fruit elsewhere.

Genyl

I am glad there was finally an update to AW.

I will have to play it and see the rewards to judge

Brainimpacter

I am glad there was finally an update to AW.

I will have to play it and see the rewards to judge

rewards not changing next season i believe i read not until season 11

sest22

I agree that increasing the difficulty should also increase the prizes. as I think that in my opinion these AW awards have been well below expectations since it halved the length of seasons and the readjustment of the AW to include more my i boss.

Ultra8529

I like that you haven't buffed the rewards ....

So, I can just choose to sit it out if the nodes are too much .. they look to be too much until alliances figure out that the whole map cannot be explored and we go back to the AW of 2 years ago where you only aimed to get minis and bosses and anything else was a bonus

This is exactly on point! Kabam please realise that the majority of players will push in AW only up to a certain level. You can only keep increasing the difficulty up to a certain point, at which level players will just zone out and realise AW is not worth it. Exactly as it was 1 year ago, prior to the introduction of AW seasons - most alliances were just going into wars and fighting the odd one when it seemed winnable, and were content for the most part to just clear as much of the map as possible and leave it if they couldn't progress further without spending.

Those were also happier times in the community though, so I guess if that is your plan we should be thankful?

RagamugginGunner

They either made nodes that made specific defenders almost unkillable or they didn't even realize that some of the node/champ combinations would be almost impossible to take out w/o a death. I'm not sure which is worse.

Mr_Platypus

They either made nodes that made specific defenders almost unkillable or they didn't even realize that some of the node/champ combinations would be almost impossible to take out w/o a death. I'm not sure which is worse.

100% the latter.
Don’t know which is worse though

hungryhungrybbq

Why is it so hard to understand. If they bump the rewards in season 10, everyone will complain they want more in eleven when the true difficulty increase comes down. They are only doing it once so they wait until the full implementation of the most difficult version is here.
And what exactly is stopping them from increasing the rewards twice? There's also no guarantee Defense Tactics ever get implemented. They were a DISASTER in the Beta.
Why should they bump twice? The first change is just a new map, that has been needed for a long time now. It won't be harder just take a little while to learn new nodes. Not to mention everyone will play it anyway, people come to forums, complain, and go right back to playing.

Right, why are we still discussing this topic as if an increase in difficulty has any bearing on whether the rewards should be updated? They should be updated because they are still the same rewards from season 1!

Updating the rewards is a completely separate issue from current/future difficulty level in my opinion. They need to be updated because you can earn better rewards from almost any other game mode, alliance or solo. Frankly they should have had incremental increases throughout the last 9 seasons to keep them in line with the rest of the game as it grows. Now we're in a position where they are markedly outdated and people are losing interest in the game mode as a whole, for a few seasons now. It's pretty simple. Reward does not match the effort. The same would apply for any mobile game or mode within that game. Right? I really don't understand why this is a debate.

Judge_Pain

Increasingly looking like our Gold 1 ally sitting out next season as well. Used to be our favorite part. Now running it risks losing our most active legacy players.

TyEdge

The decision to not change war rewards already bordered on indefensible for several seasons. When was the last change? When they added 2.5% of a t5b to gold 1? In a six-week war cycle (season and offseason) I can get 10% of a t5b for about 6000-6500 glory. 3000 5-star shards? That was less than 3 days of bounties.

LeNoirFaineant

Why is it so hard to understand. If they bump the rewards in season 10, everyone will complain they want more in eleven when the true difficulty increase comes down. They are only doing it once so they wait until the full implementation of the most difficult version is here.
And what exactly is stopping them from increasing the rewards twice? There's also no guarantee Defense Tactics ever get implemented. They were a DISASTER in the Beta.
Why should they bump twice? The first change is just a new map, that has been needed for a long time now. It won't be harder just take a little while to learn new nodes. Not to mention everyone will play it anyway, people come to forums, complain, and go right back to playing.
Right, why are we still discussing this topic as if an increase in difficulty has any bearing on whether the rewards should be updated? They should be updated because they are still the same rewards from season 1!

Agree, except the war crystals in season one were way better...

Kpatrix

Do we get to run the new maps during the off-season to figure out a strategy or is it going to be a jump in the fire deal ?

I personally think they made these nodes the way they did to create the roadblocks they were talking about when seasons started and they stated that we weren’t supposed to 100% the maps.

Not being able to 100% the map will suck for the guys who have their champs stuck in war for the full 24 hours. I just don’t understand the concept, people play to complete maps, not shoot for the bare minimum to get a boss kill. The updated rewards had better be worth it, and I’m pretty sure they will use them to entice us to go all out, t5cc shards possibly ???

Whatever the plan is they should give us more details instead of leaving us to speculate, that’s where conspiracy theories start that they frown upon so much.

Madcat

Problems with this proposed update:

1. No update to rewards for increased difficulty.
2. No significant update to rewards/crystals (victory/loss crystals are useless - 3* boosts in the day and age of 5-6* only wars in T5+) over the past few seasons.
3. Blatantly increases the difficulty, yet we are told that it should not.
4. Multiple nodes have unavoidable damage on them - which promotes spending and not skill... if they can be dropped at all.
5. Increases required activity level with longer paths.
6. Does not fix any of the current bugs that are plaguing the game.

This. Very tone deaf plans for AW that are going to further alienate the player base.

SiriusBreak

Unfortunately all we can do is keep offering constructive criticism and hope for the best. Truthfully, not much will happen until AFTER the 1st War cycle is ran with this map anyway. As of right now, fact is, everything we say is based solely upon speculation of the information we've been provided. Once we have run the 1st cycle of war we can provide Kabam with 1st hand feedback on this new map. I do agree, it does look like it will CLEARLY be more difficult.

In the meantime let's try to remain positive about this one. I would hope we'll have at least 2 cycles to test this Map before Season 10 officially gets launched. Perhaps things might get switched. Defense Tactics 1st on a Map we KNOW, and THEN continue onto a new Map after it has been reworked. This is a feasible outcome. In any case, if the difficulty is proven to be increased we will have more just cause to request an earlier rework of the rewards.

Even if it ends up JUST being war to war rewards being boosted, I'm sure many will be less anxious about going into either situation. If we know that our investment increase will be met with increased rewards, it will make running war full swing more justifiable. It would also likely increase the desire to compete for these rewards vs just trudging along for the same old, same old. I will admit, all of this is merely speculation too. Hopeful, and cautiously optimistic speculation. Welp, 1 more week of the current map and we'll see what happens.

Madcat

Problem is, Sirius, these maps have already been tested in Beta with the same feedback, which has been ignored.

SiriusBreak

Wasn't that expert iteration? @Madcat Also only a select number of players did that. This will be EVERYONE who participates in war. Might provide a bit more punch if the majority come back saying 'seriously now with this?' Again, I wouldn't expect anything to happen until we run the 1st cycle.

SiriusBreak

Also, Expert accounts for the top 1% of the Alliances in war. Let's see what the other 99% have to say afterwards. Just trying to be realistic while being mildly hopeful. No sense in loosing our heads over an announcement. We just have to keep at it, and see what happens. Not much else can be done. Also, when I say keep at it, this comes in MANY forms. Not JUST the forum messages.

SiriusBreak

BTW, I did participate in the Beta test and yes, the difficulty increase was apparent. Just the same, as previously mentioned, that doesn't allow everyone a full understanding of what's to come. So once everyone has 1st hand experience, we'll get a good idea of how the majority feel.

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synergy247

Early look... ok here’s my initial thoughts without really looking in detail at everything just a light skim of comments on this thread.

Kabam have a tendency to do this. History has shown this. Here’s a brand new map for everyone to struggle with and below par rewards for your efforts.

More mini bosses. Urrrgh. 50% increase there alone.

Last time when the quest for the stones event early look was announced they said the rewards were subject to change. Guess what they didn’t.

It was only after the huge outcry that the bar was set too high w difficulty that they realised their error and reverted the defenders to 4*. In all likelihood this will happen once again.

Sadly though it may be too late for as many have said this will probably lead to many quitting the game or just opting out of AW game mode itself until the system has a better ‘carrot’. Stick alone won’t do.

And also, there needs to be a better matchmaking system that aligns AW Tier Multiplier with Map Difficulty. Two alliances in a Tier 4 Multiplier for example should never be expected to run a Tier 3 Expert map with the harder nodes. Only Tier 4. Sure then if they go up a tier and match with another tier 3 alliance then run the Tier 3 map.

There definitely needs to be a significant off season of more than 2 weeks to acclimatise to the new map and work out logistics as well as energy requirements.

A lot of people have full time jobs and play this and other games as a form of entertainment/diversion and unwinding from RL commitments. Other than unpaid voluntary work for which the reward to the partipicant is the feel good factor, no one in their right mind is going to undertake a second job (which this is quickly becoming for a lot of people, Officers and leaders especially) for zero reward.

xNig

Just chill, try it out, don’t spend, feedback. There’s always off season for that. Not spending = free rewards.

We’ll have at least 2 weeks to try it out before Season starts. If Season starts as it is, we can always opt to not spend and have item free wars and take whatever rewards that come along with it. Free is free.

Always my mentality when running both my alliances. 😊

synergy247

Just chill, try it out, don’t spend, feedback. There’s always off season for that. Not spending = free rewards.

We’ll have at least 2 weeks to try it out before Season starts. If Season starts as it is, we can always opt to not spend and have item free wars and take whatever rewards that come along with it. Free is free.

Always my mentality when running both my alliances. 😊

I’m trying to chill lol but the level of bugs atm has me seriously fuming 😑😓

synergy247

An incremental approach to rewards would’ve been better. Season 10 w new buffs increase the rewards for all levels by X

Season 11 increase the rewards by Y, a higher amount again, that will go a long way towards generating some much needed goodwill in the community

xNig

Just chill, try it out, don’t spend, feedback. There’s always off season for that. Not spending = free rewards.

We’ll have at least 2 weeks to try it out before Season starts. If Season starts as it is, we can always opt to not spend and have item free wars and take whatever rewards that come along with it. Free is free.

Always my mentality when running both my alliances. 😊
I’m trying to chill lol but the level of bugs atm has me seriously fuming 😑😓

It’s not something we can control. So yeah, don’t harm your health over it.

Tasty_Yum_Yums

Stating there’s not an intended change in difficulty is a fallacy. Introducing a new map with the current nodes/buffs would be an unintended increase in difficulty as alliances would need to adjust for new paths and time allocation. By adding a new map with new nodes is indeed an intended increase in difficulty.

Kabam, please listen to the player base and implement an increase in AW rewards. You could increase individual war rewards and war crystals for season 10, and increase season rewards in season 11.

SiriusBreak

Kabam, please listen to the player base and implement an increase in AW rewards. You could increase individual war rewards and war crystals for season 10, and increase season rewards in season 11.

Seems pretty straightforward and to be a growing consensus. I really hope they listen like they did with a few other major concerns we (the players) have had in the past. I wouldn't expect this to occur until after the 1st cycle at minimum. But, just the same, it may occur. I urge everyone to maintain their chill like this, and keep our request simple, and straightforward.

What has been proposed by many (myself included) is not unreasonable either. Backing this request and following through with such a change will help keep players going that are on the edge of quitting. I'm not saying more complaints won't follow, they will. However this is one of those unified complaints that has a relatively manageable solution. Stay the course everyone. We may see an amicable outcome by the launch of Season 10.

Ultra8529

Stating there’s not an intended change in difficulty is a fallacy. Introducing a new map with the current nodes/buffs would be an unintended increase in difficulty as alliances would need to adjust for new paths and time allocation. By adding a new map with new nodes is indeed an intended increase in difficulty.

Kabam, please listen to the player base and implement an increase in AW rewards. You could increase individual war rewards and war crystals for season 10, and increase season rewards in season 11.

Agreed.

I am also still wondering why Kabam won't even release their intended increase to war rewards, even if it is just coming in Season 11. I'm sure just seeing what rewards will come in Season 11 will go someway to satisfying the player base.

WeeHobbit89

Flipping heck, too much complaining. Be glad rewards are getting better for season 11.
What would be a good idea is to bring the new maps out a few wars before season 10 starts so everyone can adjust a bit first