Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

Hey Everybody!

We've got another Early Look for you all! This time, we're introducing brand new Maps for all Tiers of Alliance Wars!

We recently ran a Beta for Alliance Wars that featured a number of different Updates to the Mode, and our Beta Players offered us a wealth of feedback. We’ve parsed the data and feedback that we collected, and want to give you all a glimpse into our plans moving forward.

In our Beta, we updated the map and also introduced a new feature called “Defense Tactics”. The Map update introduced a new layout and new Buffs, while Defense Tactics allowed Alliance Leadership to choose a Global Buff to apply to the Map, which allows for Defenses to be more customizable and setup in a more meaningful way.

The feedback we received was that these two major changes together were quite jarring, and that it was too much all at once. We agree with this sentiment so we have decided to stagger the release of the Map update and the release of Defense Tactics (currently scheduled for Season 11).

Read all about the upcoming map changes in the Early Look here!

Comments

xNig

Thank you Kabam for the joke this new AW map bring us !
Its so juicy seeing so many nodes making champions nearly undoable without tons of items !

Lets just see this node 20 which gives an unstoppable buff every 8 seconds.. ok thats fine
The buff initially last 4 seconds out of the 8 before the next buff... ouch
Wait no ! The buff gain +75% duration... making it last 7 secondes out of the 8 before the next buff 🤣🤣🤣
This is without extensive buffs duration of Hyperion or Voodoo which make them virtually unstopable for the remzinder of the fight if you’re unable to dispose them in the 8 first secondes or if you can’t block the arrival of the buff... 👍
Oh and in case its not enough, every 6 secondes you got a degen if you can’t hit 😂😂😂
You’re a joke. The timer for the 8 seconds cooldown doesn’t start until Unstoppable is over. You can parry champs when Unstoppable is up.

Get your facts straight before complaining.
Hmm ikr. Did these unstoppables with my r4 spidergwen. Easy money. There’s better complaints that are valid then this.

Yup. Fought a R5 Thing on the Unstoppable mini. Soloed with Blade. Was really easy.

xNig

Thank you Kabam for the joke this new AW map bring us !
Its so juicy seeing so many nodes making champions nearly undoable without tons of items !

Lets just see this node 20 which gives an unstoppable buff every 8 seconds.. ok thats fine
The buff initially last 4 seconds out of the 8 before the next buff... ouch
Wait no ! The buff gain +75% duration... making it last 7 secondes out of the 8 before the next buff 🤣🤣🤣
This is without extensive buffs duration of Hyperion or Voodoo which make them virtually unstopable for the remzinder of the fight if you’re unable to dispose them in the 8 first secondes or if you can’t block the arrival of the buff... 👍
Oh and in case its not enough, every 6 secondes you got a degen if you can’t hit 😂😂😂
You’re a joke. The timer for the 8 seconds cooldown doesn’t start until Unstoppable is over. You can parry champs when Unstoppable is up.

Get your facts straight before complaining.
Well also gotta remember hyperion further increases that buff duration by 75% id be more worried off timing out than anything else

Yes. But you can parry him whilst he’s unstoppable. Add in relatively low champ boost local nodes. Even without SG, easily soloable (not to mention SymSup etc buff nullifiers will eat those buffs for lunch).

DNA3000

What gets me is that many people predicted all these issues when they released the nodes. AQ bosses that are way too hard and AW nodes that are impossible with certain champs and masteries.
Yes - a lot of this was posted with specific champions that would break the nodes. I am not sure why the advice from Beta testing was largely ignored.
Every time we had a reply that included "This Champion would make this Node impossible", we tested that combination extensively, and though some of them are very difficult without certain Counters, we did make sure that they were possible to beat in One Shot.

This seems to be inefficient use of time on both sides of the beta.

Proving the nodes are possible with certain defenders seems to be a relatively trivial exercise. Just because the devs can't beat it doesn't mean it is impossible. But conversely, just because they can beat it doesn't mean the difficulty design target was met, unless the design target was "not impossible." Surely the design target was something other than "not impossible."

Captain_Kandice

Was the beta really just for the top 800? Why wasn’t it expanded to include all map types that had a change? Those with a huge roster have a better chance to have counters for difficult nodes than those in lower tiers. Shouldn’t mid level players have a say in beta as well if the changes were going to effect them as well?

It feels like this new map wasn’t tested properly. It also seems like a good number of people who were part of the beta feel like their feedback was ignored anyway.

Akhilxcx

okay so with all these new nodes as stated by the mods they did want to increase difficulty and change strategies for players. yet they mentioned that rewards will not increase bcoz there's no difficulty increase before season 11 including defender tactics so they didn't increase the rewards. like seriously dude you guys are self contradictory. also your developers testing these nodes doesn't make sense bcoz they would ultimately clear every node(they make those nodes remember!!).

TomBrady12

@Kabam Miike you have to admit this is much harder than the previous alliance war map that’s why I suggest you should implement he rewards you were going to add in s11 to s10

It sounds like they think that revealing the defenders makes up for the harder difficulty.

Gamer

@Kabam Miike the node aginse haven’t ben tests rigth at all sinplet ther is some you ain’t and wil not wont to itersup yeah ther is couner but not always with who you hav as a champ to use so stop make argument for that and firsthand you guys really need to consider buffs the shard your get from win a war that only fair ofcasse it a new map but how wil it help when alliance don’t place champions one node so we ain’t get use to it either

Ultra8529

What gets me is that many people predicted all these issues when they released the nodes. AQ bosses that are way too hard and AW nodes that are impossible with certain champs and masteries.
Yes - a lot of this was posted with specific champions that would break the nodes. I am not sure why the advice from Beta testing was largely ignored.
Every time we had a reply that included "This Champion would make this Node impossible", we tested that combination extensively, and though some of them are very difficult without certain Counters, we did make sure that they were possible to beat in One Shot.

These Nodes are new, and there will be a learning curve, especially those that require you to try Champions that you wouldn't normally use.

That said, we're not ignoring this feedback, and the team has already spent a lot of time reading what you guys have said.

I hope you realise that telling us that the dev team tested these nodes inspires very little confidence with the recent track record. What happened (and persists) in AQ is evidence enough that testing on your end is woefully insufficient. Despite your testing there, the game team saw it fit to release way overtuned fights. I don't see any reason to think that your testing in AW should be any more reliable.

Also, if you are testing individual nodes for specific counters, you are already missing the point of AW. With 9 paths, each player will need to clear the entire path with just 3 champs. In other words, each player needs to be able to squeeze every single possible counter for every single possible opponent along the path into their team of 3 that they bring in. Have you tested that out?

The introduction of nodes like aegis which can require very specific counters drastically reduces the probability that a player can counter every node along a path with his 3 chosen champs.

Ultra8529

What gets me is that many people predicted all these issues when they released the nodes. AQ bosses that are way too hard and AW nodes that are impossible with certain champs and masteries.
Yes - a lot of this was posted with specific champions that would break the nodes. I am not sure why the advice from Beta testing was largely ignored.
Every time we had a reply that included "This Champion would make this Node impossible", we tested that combination extensively, and though some of them are very difficult without certain Counters, we did make sure that they were possible to beat in One Shot.
This seems to be inefficient use of time on both sides of the beta.

Proving the nodes are possible with certain defenders seems to be a relatively trivial exercise. Just because the devs can't beat it doesn't mean it is impossible. But conversely, just because they can beat it doesn't mean the difficulty design target was met, unless the design target was "not impossible." Surely the design target was something other than "not impossible."

Very good point. Why have a beta in the first place if you're just going to rely on your own tests instead?

Kobster84

@Kabam Miike you have to admit this is much harder than the previous alliance war map that’s why I suggest you should implement he rewards you were going to add in s11 to s10

There would be riots if they implemented improved reward in the midst of a season. Many alliances aren’t taking AW as serious now because the rewards have become outdated. People would feel cheated since they would have been as competitive as they would be. I also don’t like the idea of better rewards in AW. There was a lot of tension and shady things going on. People were quitting because of how stressful it was so why repeat that

Season hasn’t started yet don’t see a problem with adding the rewards

Night_Owl

The statement that It's possibly doable isn't contradicted with the fact that normally it will cost too many deaths/potions. And this might happen in one single node. What if we take a whole path into account?
Don't overestimate the average skill level of the player base. I think your map design is great but not those nodes.

TacoScotty

In the offseason I would like to see dev team to fight like an MNG or another top alliance in the expert map. Look forward to seeing them clear with close to zero deaths with 15 item cap. Keep in mind if using 15 items every war that isn’t really sustainable either

Sure if I have unlimited attempts at a node I can eventually one shot everything as well. Basically for aegis heavy / intercept I need to be spot on with heavy intercepts. Not an easy task but eventually I would nail it in one attempt

Whung

@Kabam Miike

I dun think that is a great idea for new path9 node.
Only mrsinister immune to it ?
Actually. You guys should put more options to let us using more Champions to play with the node. (Eg : robot /Emma)

SiriusBreak

@Kabam Miike you have to admit this is much harder than the previous alliance war map that’s why I suggest you should implement he rewards you were going to add in s11 to s10

There would be riots if they implemented improved reward in the midst of a season. Many alliances aren’t taking AW as serious now because the rewards have become outdated. People would feel cheated since they would have been as competitive as they would be. I also don’t like the idea of better rewards in AW. There was a lot of tension and shady things going on. People were quitting because of how stressful it was so why repeat that
Season hasn’t started yet don’t see a problem with adding the rewards

Save yourself the headache and don't reply to that guy @Kobster84 . He often says things arbitrarily, ambiguously, and they often don't even apply to what you originally said. I could tell from your original message you meant change the rewards FOR Season 10. Not in the MIDDLE of Season 10.

We're in the midst of the Off Season and we were asked directly to keep the feedback coming. So, I would advise everyone to say their piece. I'm hoping we get some clarity on what I asked in my previous post. I'll summarize it now. Whole Community gets new Map, then has to wait for a reward buff for a feature that only T5-T1 can utilize. Why?

Ultra8529

What gets me is that many people predicted all these issues when they released the nodes. AQ bosses that are way too hard and AW nodes that are impossible with certain champs and masteries.
Yes - a lot of this was posted with specific champions that would break the nodes. I am not sure why the advice from Beta testing was largely ignored.
Every time we had a reply that included "This Champion would make this Node impossible", we tested that combination extensively, and though some of them are very difficult without certain Counters, we did make sure that they were possible to beat in One Shot.

These Nodes are new, and there will be a learning curve, especially those that require you to try Champions that you wouldn't normally use.

That said, we're not ignoring this feedback, and the team has already spent a lot of time reading what you guys have said.

I would add that "possible to beat in One Shot" is such a nebulous concept.

A r5 thing on the final boss node, or a r5 korg on the final boss node, is "possible to beat in One Shot". But if that is the threshold for each and every single node along the path in AW, then AW will become unplayable. Please understand that it is not about finding a single solution to a node and then checking the box that says this node is playable.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

@Kabam Miike you have to admit this is much harder than the previous alliance war map that’s why I suggest you should implement he rewards you were going to add in s11 to s10

There would be riots if they implemented improved reward in the midst of a season. Many alliances aren’t taking AW as serious now because the rewards have become outdated. People would feel cheated since they would have been as competitive as they would be. I also don’t like the idea of better rewards in AW. There was a lot of tension and shady things going on. People were quitting because of how stressful it was so why repeat that
Season hasn’t started yet don’t see a problem with adding the rewards

The problem is they want the Rewards to be in tandem with Defense Tactics.

Kabam Miike

@Kabam Miike I challenge you to a gentlemans duel. What's your in game name? I'll duel your top champ with mine... and you do the same, my game name is the same as my forum name... we take screenshots or video and post them here. I'm curious to see your top 4 as well to see how thoroughly you personally tested any of these maps. Come on man.... it will be fun... you know you want the competition.

Nah, I'm good. I'm also obviously not the only one testing everything here. There are people much more skilled than I am who rival some of our top Players in game.

Captain_Kandice

@Kabam Miike I challenge you to a gentlemans duel. What's your in game name? I'll duel your top champ with mine... and you do the same, my game name is the same as my forum name... we take screenshots or video and post them here. I'm curious to see your top 4 as well to see how thoroughly you personally tested any of these maps. Come on man.... it will be fun... you know you want the competition.
Nah, I'm good. I'm also obviously not the only one testing everything here. There are people much more skilled than I am who rival some of our top Players in game.

Are there people testing for all skill levels and testing all tier levels or is it just the most skilled testing the game?

Kabam Miike

@Kabam Miike I challenge you to a gentlemans duel. What's your in game name? I'll duel your top champ with mine... and you do the same, my game name is the same as my forum name... we take screenshots or video and post them here. I'm curious to see your top 4 as well to see how thoroughly you personally tested any of these maps. Come on man.... it will be fun... you know you want the competition.
Nah, I'm good. I'm also obviously not the only one testing everything here. There are people much more skilled than I am who rival some of our top Players in game.
Are there people testing for all skill levels and testing all tier levels or is it just the most skilled testing the game?

Of course it's not just the most skilled! We have people of all different Skill levels and progression testing all of the content.

Captain_Kandice

@Kabam Miike I challenge you to a gentlemans duel. What's your in game name? I'll duel your top champ with mine... and you do the same, my game name is the same as my forum name... we take screenshots or video and post them here. I'm curious to see your top 4 as well to see how thoroughly you personally tested any of these maps. Come on man.... it will be fun... you know you want the competition.
Nah, I'm good. I'm also obviously not the only one testing everything here. There are people much more skilled than I am who rival some of our top Players in game.

Are there people testing for all skill levels and testing all tier levels or is it just the most skilled testing the game?
Of course it's not just the most skilled! We have people of all different Skill levels and progression testing all of the content.

Good to know. Thanks!

Stellar

Are there people testing for all skill levels and testing all tier levels or is it just the most skilled testing the game?

OF COURSE ! You just have to look at the last event with the infinity stone and the mind stone path to know the full extend of the testing

Little_Crocodili29

All these links to have everyone meet in a bottleneck first section have taken away much of the freedom we used to have with explo.

If you make the left, mid and right sides able to move to section 2 individualy, no links to each other, we can make do with the pointless energy eater spots. Have each section still have a portal at the end which leads everywhere - that is the only positive improment to the new map imo.

The increase in difficulty, with all the ridiculous node combinations and restricted counter possibilities... well, I won't repeat the points the many frustrated players have raised but they're sound. There was one person who said something like G1 and map 5 was their happy place. Right on! It was the right amount of competitive, and even though the timers still made it long, it was good stress free moments with your alli friends. I hope something can be done to salvage that, fellas.

Thanks

synergy247

@Kabam Miike so only a few days out from Season 10 launch. Do you have an update about whether:

1. the current war map/new nodes is going to be retained, adjusted or reverted back to the previous one, and
2. Any update on rewards given the unintended increase in difficulty that the vast majority of the community has reported?

Thanks

Tarzan041

The game is less fun for at least half the players base. The difficulty goes up, the rewards trickle down. This new AQ doesnt justify the small rewards. This new war is something that will drive players away. I have already told my alliance, I will not spend anything on war. If I get kicked I'll go without an alliance. I for one am getting tired of the difficulty going up, for the same crappy rewards. Not to mention the the endless cycle of bugs and lag. Kabam has got their last dollar from me.

Menkent

Took the far right path for the first time and I can confirm that node 13 is complete ****. How is that the second fight on a path?

Kobster84

Maybe a compromise give us half of the extra rewards that are coming for s11 and add the other half in s11

unknown

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SiriusBreak

Very little chance the buff in rewards is large enough to split in 2

Feasibly, they could buff the individual war rewards this time, and then the Season rewards next time. It's meeting the players in the middle, and makes the most sense in my mind. New Map which is taking some getting used too war to war, give us something more, war to war. Defense Tactics will be something that shifts things as a whole for AW throughout the Season, buff the Season rewards. It's a nice compromise if you ask me. I've heard others say the same so clearly I'm not alone in this mentality.

Greywarden

Been a few wars now and I haven’t seen any healing from psychic thorns....using omega and only tentacle hits (mediums and heavies).