Early Look: New Alliance Wars Maps - Discussion Thread

Hey Everybody!

We've got another Early Look for you all! This time, we're introducing brand new Maps for all Tiers of Alliance Wars!

We recently ran a Beta for Alliance Wars that featured a number of different Updates to the Mode, and our Beta Players offered us a wealth of feedback. We’ve parsed the data and feedback that we collected, and want to give you all a glimpse into our plans moving forward.

In our Beta, we updated the map and also introduced a new feature called “Defense Tactics”. The Map update introduced a new layout and new Buffs, while Defense Tactics allowed Alliance Leadership to choose a Global Buff to apply to the Map, which allows for Defenses to be more customizable and setup in a more meaningful way.

The feedback we received was that these two major changes together were quite jarring, and that it was too much all at once. We agree with this sentiment so we have decided to stagger the release of the Map update and the release of Defense Tactics (currently scheduled for Season 11).

Read all about the upcoming map changes in the Early Look here!

Comments

AristosCorp

Whatever comes from this discussion, I’m an officer of a season 9 platinum 3 alliance. Our alliance has officially decided to take Alliance War far less seriously, and we now discourage our members from using their best champions there. Instead, we are gearing ourselves towards AQ Map 6.

To be clear, we decided to implement these changes as an Alliance, unanimously, because of the increase in Alliance War difficulty and thus item costs, while simultaneously being told by devs that there will not yet be any increase in rewards.

TLDR; alliance wars cost more than they're worth now more than ever, so as a team we’re putting it on the back burner.

Sincerely, a 4+ year summoner with mad skillz.

QuikPik

And what about the prestige based match making system?

Samspade23

Between the new nodes leading to more spending and the stupid way the linked nodes are presented, you pretty much have to wait forever and then you have the times when you're forced to fight noded.

All these changes have really sucked the fun out of the game for me. I cant help but feel others feel the same way.

Markjv81

Took the far right path for the first time and I can confirm that node 13 is complete ****. How is that the second fight on a path?

Solo a r4 5* rhino on that node today, tier 4 pretty easy, lost maybe 10% health.

SiriusBreak

Took the far right path for the first time and I can confirm that node 13 is complete ****. How is that the second fight on a path?
Solo a r4 5* rhino on that node today, tier 4 pretty easy, lost maybe 10% health.

For some, Aegis is easy. For others... not so much. If any changes occur, they may dial it back, but I don't think it's going to be removed. Truth is, learning how to beat it will undoubtedly help your progression in game. Perhaps a necessary evil.

Menkent

It's not that it's easy or hard, it's that you're at the mercy of the AI. I'm not going to get into some contest of git-gud egos about who cleared it best. It's a stupid node.

Markjv81

I really like the node, I think it’s better than say a bleed/poison node where not only do you have to the immunity but also a counter to the specific champ on the node. In theory every champ in the game can counter aegis.

Tarzan041

So a little background on Season 11 Rewards Update:

We discussed the Reward Changes quite a bit, and the decision was made to hold back the Rewards update until Season 11, because we want that update to coincide with the addition of Defence Tactics.

While the Maps are new, and getting used to something new is never without Challenge, there isn't really an intended bump to difficulty with this Map update. There are more "mini-bosses", but not all of them have strong Buffs on them (nodes 15, 18, 20, 37, 41, 43, 44, 46, 47 don't have the big boosts found on other mini-boss nodes), and you will no longer be on your own to take them down.

Defence Tactics is the biggest update we've made to Alliance Wars since Seasons were introduced, and while we wanted to have them live for Season 10, the feedback we received that it was soon, and we needed to get these Maps out to everybody first.

This isnt true, these wars are alot harder. There are more nodes and boss fights. Our alliance has already tried this new map and nodes, I think AW is going to be a secondary event. I am not wasting items on all these unavoidable damage nodes. I sure wont spend money to get the same rewards we got when it was easy.

jilanibux

The worst thing is the fact every section has multiple links coming off to the boss nodes and the moment we're waiting on a single person, everyone in that BG is waiting. Old map at least allowed more active and better players to take harder longer paths allowing alliances with diverse members to still move up in AW.

Stellar

@Kabam Miike
whatever the decision concerning the new nodes and their difficulty, can it be possible to take off all the links going to the two central mid-boss ?
Those links force us to wait for all members of the alliance to finish their lines.
They are suppressing all the possibilities we had with the previous map where some of the line could be done without waiting for the other members of the alliance.

Being in alliance with members around the world (europe, america, oceania) that make the map really hard to finish, not because of lack of skill but simply because of different time zone. We had no such problem with the old map

Beaker4220

@Kabam Miike I challenge you to a gentlemans duel. What's your in game name? I'll duel your top champ with mine... and you do the same, my game name is the same as my forum name... we take screenshots or video and post them here. I'm curious to see your top 4 as well to see how thoroughly you personally tested any of these maps. Come on man.... it will be fun... you know you want the competition.

The in game name that appears frequently in the Unofficial Kabam Mike Youtube videos is Agent b.b.r.
Rating: 490,362
Top Champs: 5/65 Ghost Rider, 5/65 Corvus, 5/65 Ice Man and 5/65 Star-Lord
Alliance: Last Assassin's Wrath - Platinum 3

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Beaker4220

Then why does it show up frequently in his Youtube videos when reviewing champ abilities?

seanjohn7944

I am the 3 year leader of an alliance. My main concern is how the nodes are linked. If you do not have 9 people who join a BG within the first few hours of attack you will have people waiting for links to come down.

This is a real issue. We had 8 people join a BG, take out their links, and wait for hours for one of the other 2 international members to wake up. At that point most people waiting were already going to sleep.

unknown

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TomBrady12

Agreed with the link posts. having all 9 lanes link the bosses is just awful with international ppl in the BG.

Beaker4220

Then why does it show up frequently in his Youtube videos when reviewing champ abilities?
Someone can correct me if wrong but I think it’s just someone having fun with their handle

It's possible that "Unofficial Kabam Mike" is not really Kabam Mike, I just don't recall him confirming or denying it.

unknown

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SiriusBreak

If they removed 1 link per section, it would be like the old map. 6-7 players could get things moving. It wouldn't effect too much in the grand scheme either. Just allow flexibility.

tkhan08

Then why does it show up frequently in his Youtube videos when reviewing champ abilities?

He is not kabam Mike. He is an Asian YouTuber.

ViolentEd

I am in a lower tiered alliance for war and do not have outrageous difficult nodes to deal with but have a lack of nodes. Most spots on map are 10% attack and health boost. The few good nodes that are there are mini boss like locations(8) and surrounding the boss.(16 nodes that are not health and attack) Over half our alliance war roster is absolute **** now with only a few champs having their abilities boosted. 3 higher lvl members can cover that but what do I do with the other 7 members that dont have as good of champs? It is easy to say that you just need to rank up champs but we all cant spend hours a day or spend insane amounts of money to do something that has no bearing in the real world. The old maps were more fun to play around different nodes.

Menkent

Go max diversity and win a bunch of 100% wars. Spreadsheet wars are pretty dull - sorry that's what you get now.

DocJC

So about there being no bump in difficulty...some of these nodes man.

hungryhungrybbq

I actually like the new map I think. Getting out of the first section without eating links does require coordination from the whole BG. We sort our BGs by time zone, so this is fine for us. However, once you're on to sec 2, each 3 person team (left, middle right) is free to move at their own pace. The linked nodes are all contained within each 3 player team and do not cross link each other. Same with the boss island. Anyone can reach any mini and attack them at will. Last war the middle and right side teams in my BG cleared the boss after the left went to sleep. It was great:) Our champs were released and the left side just finished their section in the morning.

A few of the nodes probably need to be toned down though apparently. 13 and maybe a couple others. Yes, it was disappointing to learn of the delay to a rewards update, but we'll just take this opportunity to casually practice on the new map and focus on AQ until season 11 comes. Looking forward to resuming competitive war when when this happens though.

Luciferiamdevil

Even though u know we need some particular champs to counter that degen node and I think there's only one possible counter which is Ghost, you never raise those drop rates and as previously said 5* & 6* are gonna be common for everyone now which is not the case just saying let everyone build first then raise difficulty to this level @Kabam Miike

SiriusBreak

Well, one would assume that we should prepare for a season as is. Truth is, the new node configuration can be learned. It can. Will up our game elsewhere so that's not the biggest issue IMO. The biggest issue is that they're ignoring the Alliances that were internationally built. Alliances that have multiple timezones playing together and that had found a way to make it work prior. Alliances like those will become all but extinct. At least when it comes to competition in AW. They can't. They simply cannot be competitive the way things are.

This would EASILY be remedied by removing 1 link per section in regards to the left, mid, and right. 2 links per section (in the 1st half) would allow timing flexibility across the board, and reduce the chance of bottlenecks occurring. That's a concern that cannot be fixed by simply 'getting good.' Players will either be stuck with regional segregation, or just not compete in AW. Those are essentially the options now. Unfortunately...

I was always under the impression that Kabam encouraged players working with others from different regions. Maps 6 and 7 already make that difficult, but that's higher competition. So tighter organization is necessary. AW was the one place where it didn't matter 100% timing wise. You could get the majority of the links down with 6-7 players (dependent upon placement) and have the other 3-4 come in later to do clean up. Now, it's either fight something linked without 9 in, or wait until 9 are in. Hopefully this aspect will be taken into consideration before the launch of the season this week.

Whathappened

They messed up horribly with war. Nodes are too difficult and too many linked nodes. Messes with timezones. Most alliances absolutely hate war right now. We won't spend a dime on war now. I don't care if they buff the rewards to the moon we're done until big changes happen. We are a plat 3 alliance in a hurry to get to gold 1 or maybe 2. Who cares?

Rektor

Well, one would assume that we should prepare for a season as is. Truth is, the new node configuration can be learned. It can. Will up our game elsewhere so that's not the biggest issue IMO. The biggest issue is that they're ignoring the Alliances that were internationally built. Alliances that have multiple timezones playing together and that had found a way to make it work prior. Alliances like those will become all but extinct. At least when it comes to competition in AW. They can't. They simply cannot be competitive the way things are.

This would EASILY be remedied by removing 1 link per section in regards to the left, mid, and right. 2 links per section (in the 1st half) would allow timing flexibility across the board, and reduce the chance of bottlenecks occurring. That's a concern that cannot be fixed by simply 'getting good.' Players will either be stuck with regional segregation, or just not compete in AW. Those are essentially the options now. Unfortunately...

I was always under the impression that Kabam encouraged players working with others from different regions. Maps 6 and 7 already make that difficult, but that's higher competition. So tighter organization is necessary. AW was the one place where it didn't matter 100% timing wise. You could get the majority of the links down with 6-7 players (dependent upon placement) and have the other 3-4 come in later to do clean up. Now, it's either fight something linked without 9 in, or wait until 9 are in. Hopefully this aspect will be taken into consideration before the launch of the season this week.

Thank the alliances that wanted to clear the map for season points while doing the least amount of fights possible and leaving 40 defenders up for their opponents.

Abuse the system and kabam responds. I’m sure they’ll address other forms of manipulation next.

SiriusBreak

Well, one would assume that we should prepare for a season as is. Truth is, the new node configuration can be learned. It can. Will up our game elsewhere so that's not the biggest issue IMO. The biggest issue is that they're ignoring the Alliances that were internationally built. Alliances that have multiple timezones playing together and that had found a way to make it work prior. Alliances like those will become all but extinct. At least when it comes to competition in AW. They can't. They simply cannot be competitive the way things are.

This would EASILY be remedied by removing 1 link per section in regards to the left, mid, and right. 2 links per section (in the 1st half) would allow timing flexibility across the board, and reduce the chance of bottlenecks occurring. That's a concern that cannot be fixed by simply 'getting good.' Players will either be stuck with regional segregation, or just not compete in AW. Those are essentially the options now. Unfortunately...

I was always under the impression that Kabam encouraged players working with others from different regions. Maps 6 and 7 already make that difficult, but that's higher competition. So tighter organization is necessary. AW was the one place where it didn't matter 100% timing wise. You could get the majority of the links down with 6-7 players (dependent upon placement) and have the other 3-4 come in later to do clean up. Now, it's either fight something linked without 9 in, or wait until 9 are in. Hopefully this aspect will be taken into consideration before the launch of the season this week.
Thank the alliances that wanted to clear the map for season points while doing the least amount of fights possible and leaving 40 defenders up for their opponents.

Abuse the system and kabam responds. I’m sure they’ll address other forms of manipulation next.

Just out of curiosity, what's the benefit of doing this during the Season? Maybe I'm missing something. Leaving that many champs up in T5+ will undoubtedly lead to a loss. I just don't get why this tactic would be employed.

Rektor

Well, one would assume that we should prepare for a season as is. Truth is, the new node configuration can be learned. It can. Will up our game elsewhere so that's not the biggest issue IMO. The biggest issue is that they're ignoring the Alliances that were internationally built. Alliances that have multiple timezones playing together and that had found a way to make it work prior. Alliances like those will become all but extinct. At least when it comes to competition in AW. They can't. They simply cannot be competitive the way things are.

This would EASILY be remedied by removing 1 link per section in regards to the left, mid, and right. 2 links per section (in the 1st half) would allow timing flexibility across the board, and reduce the chance of bottlenecks occurring. That's a concern that cannot be fixed by simply 'getting good.' Players will either be stuck with regional segregation, or just not compete in AW. Those are essentially the options now. Unfortunately...

I was always under the impression that Kabam encouraged players working with others from different regions. Maps 6 and 7 already make that difficult, but that's higher competition. So tighter organization is necessary. AW was the one place where it didn't matter 100% timing wise. You could get the majority of the links down with 6-7 players (dependent upon placement) and have the other 3-4 come in later to do clean up. Now, it's either fight something linked without 9 in, or wait until 9 are in. Hopefully this aspect will be taken into consideration before the launch of the season this week.
Thank the alliances that wanted to clear the map for season points while doing the least amount of fights possible and leaving 40 defenders up for their opponents.

Abuse the system and kabam responds. I’m sure they’ll address other forms of manipulation next.
Just out of curiosity, what's the benefit of doing this during the Season? Maybe I'm missing something. Leaving that many champs up in T5+ will undoubtedly lead to a loss. I just don't get why this tactic would be employed.

They found a way to manipulate the system to lose on purpose but still being able to clear the map and skip most of the hardest fights on the old map.

Allows alliances to clear the map with minimal to no item use. Typically done by alliances that know they will probably lose the war, or will win the war at high boost/item cost.

They collect loser points and move on with their season. And their opponent gets heavily inflated scores from defenders remaining which sabotages any alliance not lucky enough to match an in-season tanking alliance like them. If they get a favorable matchup later in the season then they play as normal and win with minimal item use.

Master alliances that have done this the pst 2 season have gotten plat 1/plat 2 rewards at a fraction of what master rewards would’ve cost them.