Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

digital-SOB

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.

Absolutely incorrect.
Apps make money daily based off downloads.
X downloads equals Y money.
Anyone who has downloaded the app has made the Company money, therefore by definition, they are customers.
Google it lol

Werewrym

Even if you make the argument that F2P aren't customers, they are still potential customers even if they haven't spent money up to this point in time. I've never heard of a company calling their potential customers opinions meaningless...

Onmix

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
It came after mine but here you said it.
I’m not trying to pick a fight but I don’t think attacking someone for being f2p is wise.

In the end even if you spend Kabam doesn’t owe you anything. And nothing you buy is actually yours.

They need both sides of the player base so it’s in their best interest to try and get both happy.

There are a few that say they have spent and don’t think the sigil is 100% right.

Of course I’d like to get everything there for free but I understand it’s not possible and they need to charge. It’d be great though if they read some of the comments and gave 1 or 2 of this perks for free and expanded them for the subscription.

Will everybody be happy? No
Will most be happy? Probably not.

But they will have a much more solid argument to why they are doing it (although they of course don’t need it).
They do give things for free all the time. Dungeons is a great example of something they gave to everyone for free that allows people to gain champs faster. I never once said they should not give f2p players anything, never once. I stated that from a money standpoint their opinion means less.

here is a question. You have a group of customers and non customers. The customers want you to sell them a stake, ribeye. The non customers want you to give them the ribeye for free and give the paying customers filet for the same price. Is the free peoples opinion going to matter to you as much as the paying customers? no, because at the end of the day it comes down to the money.

Most things in the game are free. That’s a fact. Nobody can refute that nor say we don’t get things for free.

Now to your question. I don’t think it’s the right example.
What some of us are saying is:
You offer the ribeye to costumers.
Non costumers ask for a chicken leg. (Just 1 perk)

Or another way to look at it.
You offer the ribeye to costumers.
Non costumers ask for the ribeye (1 perk) and you decide to give them the ribeye and then Kobe (increased amount of that 1 perk) to costumers.
I think both would be happy, don’t you?

Now to the direct answer. If your restaurant depends on the presence of the non costumers yes. They matter equal to me since I depend on them too. (It’s clear we will disagree here)

Even if we disagree, my point is this. Wether I spend or not, if I’m opposed to the sigil I won’t be heard more or less than if I didn’t spend. Nobody says if I spend right now they will change it so why belittle me for not spending?

Lormif

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
Absolutely incorrect.
Apps make money daily based off downloads.
X downloads equals Y money.
Anyone who has downloaded the app has made the Company money, therefore by definition, they are customers.
Google it lol

Incorrect. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that is wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Apple-pay-anything-to-iOS-app-developers-who-offer-their-apps-for-free-in-the-App-Store

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-iOS-developers-make-per-app-download

or take it from say, Apple:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/business-models/

They make money based on downloads of the app ONLY if they charge for the app.

Onmix

@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

Some of us aren’t even asking for those 3 perks you’re mentioning. Even 1 would go a long way.

And yes. Spending shouldn’t give someone the right to shame or dismiss another person.

GroundedWisdom

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.

So, what can free 2 play players do with this?
Nothing. That’s the point. To encourage spending.
They have to make money somehow to fund the game. Everything can’t be free.
Haha you think that 10 bucks a month will help? Lol
$10 a month, probably not much. $10 x X amount of Subscribers, quite a bit. If I had to venture a guess, this would most likely be the result of seeing the response to other Subscriptions like Units. These Offers tend to be successful.
Don’t start. We all know Kabam already makes millions of bucks a month. Putting this behind a paywall was unnecessary, just greedy.
So because they make Millions, that means they should stop selling Offers? Bit of a backwards logic there.
I don't recall saying that, or anyone else for that matter. Nice job making sh*t up as usual. I guess making up random stuff is all you can ever do to support your arguments huh?
You said they make Millions, so they shouldn't charge for this. What about their Net Income stops them from releasing Offers? You think because they make money, they should just give people what they want, when they want it? No. Your response was cavalier, and I don't mean the Title.
I don't care if they charge for this. If you had half the mind to look back at my previous posts, you'll see the only thing that bugs me is that they gated the Weekly Gold Realms behind a pay wall.
For many, many months, F2P players have been saying how there is a gold drought, & we need weekly Gold Realms. What does Kabam do? Put the Gold Realms behind a pay wall. The rich get richer, & the F2P get nothing.
There isn't a Gold drought.
Rank up resources have become much more common and champs cost more to rank up I.e 5:65 and 2:35 and gold has barely changed except for possibly putting gold in the first 3 milestones of arena but that was still a very small amount

Which is precisely why I said it was a Bottleneck Resource. Those Champs are supposed to cost more. That's what's pacing progress. There's also Gold throughout the game, and people earn it steadily. More if you take advantage of the Arena.

Demonzfyre

Even if you make the argument that F2P aren't customers, they are still potential customers even if they haven't spent money up to this point in time. I've never heard of a company calling their potential customers opinions meaningless...

Its not meaningless by any means but they want to make money. Its seen as a unpopular decision from what people are saying for the gold mainly but it's a risk they are willing to take. If no one buys it, probably will be changes. Daily offers change all the time so they can find that sweet spot of what gets the most money.

digital-SOB

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
Absolutely incorrect.
Apps make money daily based off downloads.
X downloads equals Y money.
Anyone who has downloaded the app has made the Company money, therefore by definition, they are customers.
Google it lol
Incorrect. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that is wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Apple-pay-anything-to-iOS-app-developers-who-offer-their-apps-for-free-in-the-App-Store

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-iOS-developers-make-per-app-download

or take it from say, Apple:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/business-models/

They make money based on downloads of the app ONLY if they charge for the app.

Wrong.
https://sensortower.com/blog/how-much-money-ios-apps-make-per-download-by-category

Lormif

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
Absolutely incorrect.
Apps make money daily based off downloads.
X downloads equals Y money.
Anyone who has downloaded the app has made the Company money, therefore by definition, they are customers.
Google it lol
Incorrect. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that is wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Apple-pay-anything-to-iOS-app-developers-who-offer-their-apps-for-free-in-the-App-Store

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-iOS-developers-make-per-app-download

or take it from say, Apple:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/business-models/

They make money based on downloads of the app ONLY if they charge for the app.
Wrong.
https://sensortower.com/blog/how-much-money-ios-apps-make-per-download-by-category

OMG, do you even understand what they are doing?

They are taking the total revenue of all the apps per category and then dividing by the number of downloads....It still requires purchases, it is just an aggregate that is then divided....No where in there are they making the claim that if you make a free app with no ads, and no micro transactions you will make that amount of money, in fact you will make nothing.

Lormif

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?

We’ve begged for these changes for years to be standard parts of the game.
Now tell me why should we have to pay for them?
Tell us why you shouldn't besides that you don't want to. If you go to the store and beg them for a new playstation for years, do you feel there's a period of time that once it passes you are now owed a playstation?
You just want to argue, it’s cool I love debates. Let’s say I run a business, my customers have complained that since I close at 5pm and they don’t get of work til 5pm, it would really be great for me to stay open til 6pm. Then I said “ok I’ll do it but you have to pay a monthly subscription of 9.99”
My customers would flip me the bird.

If you are free to play you are not the customer... The customer are those paying..... In your example if those "customers" didnt generate any revenue them fliping you the bird would not matter.
Everyone who has downloaded the game is a customer, maybe not a spender. See my earlier post explaining that F2P are as important if not more than spenders. F2P people make up most of this game and since how many downloads an app has directly effects App Store presence and income they are def customers.
How many downloads has no impact on income. app store presence sure, but trying to claim that F2P are more important or equal to the spenders makes no sense. and no they are not customers:

cus·tom·er
/ˈkəstəmər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a person or organization that buys goods or services from a store or business.
Absolutely incorrect.
Apps make money daily based off downloads.
X downloads equals Y money.
Anyone who has downloaded the app has made the Company money, therefore by definition, they are customers.
Google it lol
Incorrect. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know that is wrong.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Apple-pay-anything-to-iOS-app-developers-who-offer-their-apps-for-free-in-the-App-Store

https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-iOS-developers-make-per-app-download

or take it from say, Apple:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/business-models/

They make money based on downloads of the app ONLY if they charge for the app.
Wrong.
https://sensortower.com/blog/how-much-money-ios-apps-make-per-download-by-category

In fact when you look through the charts you see things like this:

"Revenue from Medical apps is slightly better than average. This is because people are typically willing to pay a little more for these apps."

AND

"Music apps are generally pretty cheap, so I didn’t expect the average revenue per download to be that high…and it’s not. But it is higher than I expected, relative to categories like Lifestyle and Finance."

unknown

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Vdh2008

I love how the narrative is slowly changing as this thread moves forward... At the start there were people "dead set against" this, and people supporting the idea. NOW there are actually people complaining that the subscription is NOT enough, and we should be provided more for the $10/ month.

Personally, I think this is a good experiment, and I'll give it a shot to see if it will increase my enjoyment in the game. I am not opposed to more "perks" for more $, but we will see where this goes.

GroundedWisdom

One thing I have my eye on is the Market. Trading 4* Shards for 5* Shards can be useful. Not that I'm necessarily in the "4*s are obsolete" pocket. Lol. I still have a few I'm trying to pull for collection purposes. Still, it would come in handy. Especially if you're trying to top off a Crystal. Besides, 2000 4* Shards will yield more than a Max Sig Dup.

TheTalents

TheTalents said:
@TheVyrus

TheTalents said:
Most people that are complaining are not F2p so stop with the narrative that everyone complaining doesn't spend on the game. Its disingenuous to get your point out and shame people for not spending. All we're saying is that specifically more inventory space, less energy, and gold should be offered for free in our opinion. I don't understand the contempt for people wanting that. I'm not f2P at all but have been wanting this added as they have done so in the past.

The problem is that all of those things requires software engineers to create and implement. I can promise you those engineers do not work for free, they require compensation. The testers also require compensation. Moderators require compensation. Bandwidth costs money. Licensing costs money. I can go on but I think the point is made.
While Kabam is making money already, they are spending a tremendous amount for these changes. As a business they need to recover that cost and gain a profit or they go out of business. They are not forcing the purchase, just offering it. If you really want this QOL change you spend if not, let it go.

Learn how to read bro, I'm a spender. This offer isn't good enough for my 10 bucks every month. Also, I really just want the inventory space for everyone. My problem is people directly getting mad about f2p players wanting life convenience changes added to the game. People jumping on the bandwagon because they spend do not see the bigger picture at all. Hence why they didn't see Kabam's 6 star gates coming for 6.2 because they allowed to 4 star gates to ride. Understand the precedent you are setting by paying for things that should be added naturally with game progression.

You miss my point. My point is that the changes require Kabam to spend, therefor they will be looking to recover the money spent and turn a profit. Therefor the changes are not free for the community, period. I have no issue with people choosing to pay for it or not, but the communities sense of entitlement is incorrect. Things cost money, even simple QOL changes, and when a business places a value on those things the consumer chooses if the value is worth their money or not. F2P or not the choice is there for everyone.

I am sorry you disagree, but I do not think that anyone is entitled to these items. There is a cost and value associated with them.
Quote Insightful

Kabam developers don't get paid more for implementing an increase in inventory for everybody. That makes no damn sense. They get paid a salary to update constantly on a variety of issues. Dude you are way off base to the point I no longer feel the need to respond to you and I won't. The F2p shame is pathetic and it seems like its a way to make you feel better and its sad. Your point isn't anymore valid unless you're a whale. If you're not a whale Kabam doesn't read your post in anymore consideration than someone who is F2p.

gannicus0830

I've looked up the revenue this game brings in, and trust me boys and girls, they certainly Don't NEED to do this. This is good old fashioned greed, plain and simple.

Worknprogress

I've looked up the revenue this game brings in, and trust me boys and girls, they certainly Don't NEED to do this. This is good old fashioned greed, plain and simple.

So if your boss offered to pay you more money for your job, you'd tell him you don't need it right?

Worknprogress

I'm not positive as I don't particularly care but I assume Netmarble is a traded company somewhere. If so, they have shareholders that greatly care about increasing revenue. I don't agree with a lot of decisions made and don't completely agree with this one, but to get mad that a for profit business continues to find ways to increase revenue is ridiculous. It's the whole point of the business. This is not a charity or a non profit organization.

Worknprogress

The game is "free to play". That means you don't have to spend anything to play it. That does not mean everything in the game will be free.

TheTalents

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.

Worknprogress

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.

So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.

DarthPhal

If I had a nickel for every time someone declared a Kabam decision to be the death of the game, it would cover the first year of my subscription.

Zuko_ILC

Kabam should consider including bcs and loyatly in the monthly subscription.

Demonzfyre

I've looked up the revenue this game brings in, and trust me boys and girls, they certainly Don't NEED to do this. This is good old fashioned greed, plain and simple.

Why does everyone assume revenue means profit?

ESF

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.
So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.

No kidding -- I get that this is a forum, and people have opinions.

But at some point, quit or don't quit. Buy or not.

I get there are kids who play, but if you're an adult, make a decision one way or the other and stop acting like a for-profit company owes you something that you didn't actually pay for or is going to take less revenue so you can keep using their product exactly how you want for free

ESF

Me, personally, I am going to evaluate the trial week and see how I feel after.

I don't know exactly what I think should be in the monthly package, but for whatever reason, I don't feel like it is hitting enough cylinders for me to purchase.

So I will evaluate and see if that changes.

TheTalents

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.
So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.

I'm not going to buy it. In fact if you read my entire post I explained what kabam could do to entice a player like myself to actually buy a subscription hence my forum post. Get out your feelings bra. I'm not the complaining type. I have solutions.

Nick_Caine_32

I'm neither for or against Kabam's decision making I address each update individually. I just don't go above and beyond to the point to make it seem like everything they're doing is simply great because overall it is a good product.. If you feel like I'm talking to you, than tough. This offer in my opinion isn't the best and should be frankly offered for free when it comes to inventory spacing and gold opportunities. Maybe if they gave some actual game changing materials like battlechips for a subscription so I can spend less time in area I would pay for that.
So don't buy it. It's a pretty simple answer to not feeling that it has enough value. I didn't think the class 5* was remotely a good offer. I didn't run around complaining about it and bashing kabam. I just didn't buy it.
No kidding -- I get that this is a forum, and people have opinions.

But at some point, quit or don't quit. Buy or not.

I get there are kids who play, but if you're an adult, make a decision one way or the other and stop acting like a for-profit company owes you something that you didn't actually pay for or is going to take less revenue so you can keep using their product exactly how you want for free

Or, you could all let people of all player types and backgrounds share their opinion on a game feature without pretending like your opinions override them or are the "correct" ones. For the handful of users complaining about "entitlement" or "wanting free stuff" and saying the rest are wrong, you guys keep posting this same opinion over and over again on these 18 pages of comments. Isn't the point of having a discussion board about the game facilitated by Kabam to get a bunch of people's opinions for feedback?

This comment really doesn't sit well with me and toward the end here it's really turned very toxic toward others you guys don't agree with. Honestly, go back and read who is posting the most on this thread - it's 4-5 users who don't have a problem with this new feature, quoting and arguing with anyone who does and being condescending toward anyone who has a problem with it. So you guys don't think it's a huge deal? Cool. But the number and tenor of your comments are really leaning toward getting combative and personal and I don't think that's healthy at all. Kabam made this thread and topic open for discussion. You guys made your points, maybe let others make theirs as well without trying to tell them they are wrong repeatedly or using the old worn out "if you don't like it, just quit and stop complaining" mentality. It's just as toxic as what you guys are complaining about yourselves.

Why some users are incapable of letting others share a different viewpoint without trying to shoot them down or negate their experience is beyond me. They have just as much a right to share here as you all do, without having a small group target them and be generally nasty toward them just for posting at all. You talk about people needing to be grown ups? Disagreeing respectfully without bashing others is something grown ups do. And since when is sharing your opinion on a new game feature "complaining and bashing kabam?" I see plenty of comments discussing the specifics of what people have issues with in this, without bashing kabam and usually those kinds of comments are removed anyway. The most toxic comments currently left are people bashing other users for doing what the forums are intended to do. It's really sad to see this and we should all aim higher.

Bodhizen

Here's the rub for me:

Through @Kabam Miike , Kabam promised a while back to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base. Did anyone here get asked what they'd like to see added to the game, and if so, were they willing to pay a fee for it? I don't remember a poll or a survey about this. I don't remember an announcement that they were looking into a paid subscription service. I don't remember any kind of deliberation as to what would be a fair value if they were to implement a subscription service.

So, I'm unclear on how this fulfills that promise to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base.

Demonzfyre

Here's the rub for me:

Through @Kabam Miike , Kabam promised a while back to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base. Did anyone here get asked what they'd like to see added to the game, and if so, were they willing to pay a fee for it? I don't remember a poll or a survey about this. I don't remember an announcement that they were looking into a paid subscription service. I don't remember any kind of deliberation as to what would be a fair value if they were to implement a subscription service.

So, I'm unclear on how this fulfills that promise to be more transparent with updates that affect the user-base.

That's not what transparency means. It doesn't mean "ask us first" or that we get to decide whats fair or not. There's absolutely no way this community would ever be able to actually decide what is fair and have it approved. We'd all have 1 billion in gold and every 6* in the game at rank 3. It means they are trying to be more forthcoming for reasons they do something like answering more questions in depth.

DNA3000

For many, many months, F2P players have been saying how there is a gold drought, & we need weekly Gold Realms. What does Kabam do? Put the Gold Realms behind a pay wall. The rich get richer, & the F2P get nothing.

Also, saying "the rich get richer" in this context is completely ridiculous. You can only use so much gold. Anyone already rich on gold can't get "richer" except in terms of a meaningless number getting larger. Once you have enough gold that it ceases to be a bottleneck, no more than that is useful.
.
Hahaha what?! You can only use so much gold? That's your argument? That's 100% incorrect. And even if it wasn't, the amount of gold that can be used in-game is literally incalculable. There is no cap on the gold that can be used. Seems like common knowledge to any frequent player...

If you want to be literal, there's really only two things you can spend gold on: alliance donations for maps, and champion rank ups. The game only adds about two champions to the game per month, across potentially six star tiers. Even assuming the game adds new maps at regular intervals that have higher cost, and adds new star tiers at regular intervals with higher rank up costs, there is a theoretical maximum amount of gold you could burn per year. And since people aren't immortal yet, there's a maximum amount of gold a human being could spend on the game. That's calculable.

But I'm assuming most people wouldn't be that literal. Any reasonable person would understand that what was being described was earning rates not absolute values, since the game is a moving target. At some point a player is earning more gold than they can spend, and when that happens increasing the amount of gold they can earn has no practical benefit to them.