Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

ESF

I really think for the sake of QOL kabam should go all the way with it. Put a price on battle chips through subscription so we don't have to grind arena unless we want a new champ. It would solve the gold issue, for those that can afford it, and many more that I can't even begin to explain regarding time.

See, I actually agree with this.

I have long disagreed with any number of the bottlenecks in this game. I understand some aspects of it, but at the same time, let people play the game how they want to play it.

If it were up to me, if you wanted to be F2P and grind it out, go for it. Awesome.

But if I never had to grind another arena, I'd pay for that. I absolutely would, because I don't view that as something I want to do if I don't have to.

If it were up to me, just about everything would go on sale, with the only limits being how much you could buy each month or quarter or whatever.

So no, a person couldn't buy 20 5-star Awakening Gems.

But could they buy one each month? Sure. It's just a game

Xdonre

The primary reason I am not prepared to initially support this service is that IMO it has very limited to little value. I personally believe that most of the items being offered should be implemented and made available as part of the games natural progression & growth…for example it takes 200 sig stones to max out a 6 star character therefore the current default inventory limit should be 200. This limit should not be a paid add-on. As written this subscription service just seems like a poor decision by Kabam to increase their profits but not actually provide any true value for the loyal patrons of the game…just my thoughts.

DNA3000

Can you honestly read the comments of dissent toward those who don’t like these changes and tell me those are coming from a place of respect and fair discourse?

Some are, some aren't. But that isn't isolated to those on only one side.

I'm always on the side of respectful discourse. But you didn't ask for respectful discourse. You singled out one side as being the problem. That's clearly not the case.

Moreover, I can only respond to what you say, and what you said was both specific and unambiguous, and also not hyperbole for emphasis or a typo or an exaggeration. You said: "Isn't the point of having a discussion board about the game facilitated by Kabam to get a bunch of people's opinions for feedback?" A lot of people think this: that the forums are here for me to say what I think and everyone else to respect what I think by not making any negative responses. Maybe you're not one of those people, but you asserted the same fundamental position they base this idea on: that the forums are here for people to provide feedback to Kabam, not for players to comment on other players feedback.

Demonzfyre

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?
No worries. I posted earlier that the community has been begging for years for these specific changes: energy refill faster, raise the inventory limit and give us a market to trade stuff we don’t have use for something of use.
Kabam said “we can’t/unable/won’t do that” for years, now they can buuuut only if you pay.
Just because the community begged for it, they have to be given for free? Like WHAT?
Yes. Why would a business decide to NOT listen to their customers, they have the ability to implement these changes and decided to do it but only if we pay.

They did listen. It just isn't what you were expecting.

DNA3000

For those that think my version isn't better. Am I supposed to care? I would like to hear a better suggestion then.

If they think your version is worse, then a better suggestion would be to not do what you're suggesting. People aren't required to propose a better game just to express the opinion that your version is not better than the version we're already getting.

But in particular, I (other players have stated this as well, but I'm just speaking for myself here) explicitly stated that a fundamental difference between how you see the game and how I see the game is I don't believe you can reasonably categorize gold and quest energy as quality of life aspects of the game, such that getting more of them is a quality of life improvement. Both gold and energy are game resources, just as catalysts and fragments are game resources. Boosting a resource is a kind of reward boost, not quality of life boost. So your position would hamper the design of the game in ways I wouldn't, in ways I think would hurt the future evolution of the game. My "better suggestion" is to not treat those things that way.

This isn't just a small quibble either, this is a fundamental problem. If you call things like Gold a "quality of life" benefit, then they should be treated as such by the game. In particular, there's now no reason to balance them in the reward system. And quality of life changes to the game have a lower priority than resource balancing ones. If someone is short of gold, we can just say "well, that's just a quality of life issue, and we can get to it whenever: content and reward balancing issues come first." That's unavoidable: this is how game development priority happens, period.

Also, I (and again, others, but I'm once again limiting this to my own opinion so as to not represent anyone else) went further to state what my "better suggestion" was in terms of how I would have altered the details of the VIP program. I would have offered a small increase in inventory - which I agree is a quality of life game aspect - to everyone, and a higher one within the program. I also would have gone further, and rolled out a small quest energy cap increase for everyone along with a higher one for VIP program members, to go along with the higher energy refresh rates for VIP players. Faster energy recharge is an increase in a consumable resource, but the energy *cap* is arguably a quality of life "inventory" cap. It doesn't increase the amount of energy the game gives you, but it reduces the amount you can "save up" and this has an impact on players who, say, sleep for eight hours a day. You *could* just wake up in the middle of the night and burn energy, but that's not an option I think the game should be encouraging (that's also why I've generally opposed timed events that have weird day/night cycles).

Zuko_ILC

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.

The whole point of paying is having game changing items and content, otherwise why pay? LoL
QOL should be standard, available to all. The govt doesn’t charge us to breath the air, does it? Cmon.
People pay for QOL improvements all the time. That's what these kinds of perks are. Don't want to wait in line? Become a VIP member... The "whole point of paying" is to get something you want lol

I wouldn't mind if the vip monthly subscription gave discounts to treasury donations. Discounts to buy unit packages or better odds on crystals. Fragments or other items. I would buy it for that kind of stuff but I dont like to buy stuff where I get to trade hard earned stuff in. I'm paying to sell my resources???? And increase inventory even though current inventory status is based on 4*s and never updated for 5* or 6* inclusions. Hopefully this is just a test run and no one buys it so they realize what can make them money and adjust appropriately.

DNA3000

I really think for the sake of QOL kabam should go all the way with it. Put a price on battle chips through subscription so we don't have to grind arena unless we want a new champ. It would solve the gold issue, for those that can afford it, and many more that I can't even begin to explain regarding time.

The most important resources that pop out of battlechips are gold and units, and both of those are already things you can purchase an unlimited amount of. So it is already true, and has been true for a very long time now, that "for those that can afford it" you can solve any shortage of gold or units.

You can already grind for gold. You can already buy gold. What makes you think that offering a gold subscription is going to eliminate gold shortage complaints?

digital-SOB

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?
No worries. I posted earlier that the community has been begging for years for these specific changes: energy refill faster, raise the inventory limit and give us a market to trade stuff we don’t have use for something of use.
Kabam said “we can’t/unable/won’t do that” for years, now they can buuuut only if you pay.
Just because the community begged for it, they have to be given for free? Like WHAT?
Yes. Why would a business decide to NOT listen to their customers, they have the ability to implement these changes and decided to do it but only if we pay.
They did listen. It just isn't what you were expecting.

They clearly have heard our input but decided to put our(the community) suggestions available behind a paywall.
The proper way to handle suggestions and subscriptions is to make the desired changes available to all and the subscription amplify the perks of said standard subscriptions.

xNig

Chill bro. It has been proven countless times in the past that the community overreacts to every single change to the game, then turns around and eats their words.

Those who can keep a calm mind, rationally analyze and make a decision for themselves, while not agreeing to join in the public "outrage" tend to be labeled as "trolls" since they tend to speak against the majority opinion.

History has proven that the majority is usually wrong. Don't need to get worked up. 😀

Lormif

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?
No worries. I posted earlier that the community has been begging for years for these specific changes: energy refill faster, raise the inventory limit and give us a market to trade stuff we don’t have use for something of use.
Kabam said “we can’t/unable/won’t do that” for years, now they can buuuut only if you pay.
Just because the community begged for it, they have to be given for free? Like WHAT?
Yes. Why would a business decide to NOT listen to their customers, they have the ability to implement these changes and decided to do it but only if we pay.
They did listen. It just isn't what you were expecting.
They clearly have heard our input but decided to put our(the community) suggestions available behind a paywall.
The proper way to handle suggestions and subscriptions is to make the desired changes available to all and the subscription amplify the perks of said standard subscriptions.

You forgot to state . This is also a proper way to handle it

GroundedWisdom

Aside from the usual Kabam shills, this is CLEARLY getting a negative response. Listen to the feedback and let’s compromise! I understand a subscription is going to happen but it’s being done wrong, clearly.
The Black Market, energy and inventory perks should be STANDARD for all, let the subscription INCREASE their respective value.
Players shouldn’t have to pay for access to these, let them pay for increased value to these.
Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill?

here is the thing, you guys cannot even agree on what is the issue with the deal, it is not a problem with the deal, it is a problem with you wanting more free stuff. Shoot the Black Market is not even QOL which most of the people in this thread has stated is fine with being in the deal and not free. The other players only want QOL stuff.
The issue with the deal is Kabam capped inventory and we’ve asked for increase for years, same with energy and an idea like the proposed Black Market and all of these being griped about and wanted for years but now behind a paywall.
Is a subscription with added benefits good, yes.
Should things we, as a community, have asked and begged for years to be implemented but only if you pay, no.
So what exactly should be included? Things no one wants? If you want it pay for it, if you dont the game runs just fine without it. QOL is the primary things that should be in these deals, not other things, otherwise it is either useless or gives a massive competitive advantage.
As per my last post.. lol
The things that should be standard are the Market, energy and inventory perks. Let the subscription ADD to the perks.
Out of those 3 the only thing that they are not ADDIng to the perks are the market. The energy and inventory
“Perks” are in addition to what you currently have. Again the problem you are having is not what is going on, but that you want more for free.
As per my previous post..
The 3 that I mentioned being available to all player and subscription INCREASES the perks.
Another 25% inventory, better Market trade-ins and 4 min energy refill.
Is it that hard to see what I’m saying?
Why should they be offering these for free?

Is it hard to understand that?
No worries. I posted earlier that the community has been begging for years for these specific changes: energy refill faster, raise the inventory limit and give us a market to trade stuff we don’t have use for something of use.
Kabam said “we can’t/unable/won’t do that” for years, now they can buuuut only if you pay.
Just because the community begged for it, they have to be given for free? Like WHAT?
Yes. Why would a business decide to NOT listen to their customers, they have the ability to implement these changes and decided to do it but only if we pay.
They did listen. It just isn't what you were expecting.
They clearly have heard our input but decided to put our(the community) suggestions available behind a paywall.
The proper way to handle suggestions and subscriptions is to make the desired changes available to all and the subscription amplify the perks of said standard subscriptions.

I'm afraid that's just giving people what they want, not handling suggestions. That's not always feasible. They listen, they take into account what we want, but they also have their own plans and objectives. It's not always reasonable to have everything we want.

Lormif

[Removed by Mod]

You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.

digital-SOB

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.

I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.

GroundedWisdom

This is exactly the reason I said I'm going back to the topic. The same people with the same prejudiced view jump in and point fingers. They've already predetermined people are Trolls and Shills, two accusations which are against the rules, and have decided anything they say is derailing. Only, nothing they've said has been derailing. They just don't agree. So what happens is others chime in like moths to a flame, and it devolves into a slingfest. They don't hire Shills. What I say is my own views and thoughts. What people are doing is bringing the Thread down and pointing the finger at others. So unless you have something to add to the actual subject, keep me out of it.

DNA3000

Hopefully this is just a test run and no one buys it so they realize what can make them money and adjust appropriately.

In a game as a service, everything is a test run.

In the novel Starship Troopers the main character recounts a high school class in which the teacher asks a student to objectively justify why they should continue to use the political system they do (in which only military service veterans are allowed to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or serve in the government). The student gives a bunch of answers, some from the textbook and some off the top of his head all of which the teacher dismisses. Then the teacher apologizes and says he gave the student a trick question: the objective reason to continue using the political system they use is because it has shown itself to work, and the fact that something works is the only practical justification for continuing to do anything.

All online games like this are heavily data-driven businesses. They know which champions players use the most. Which ones deal the most damage. Which content generates the most rewards to the most players in the least amount of time. How long the average player grinds arena. And they know which offers are bought more and less, which kinds of offers are more and less successful, and which ones are more successful with different segments of the player population. Things are done so long as they work, and only so long as they work.

It is kind of interesting to me that no one (that I can recall) has either guessed, stated, or conjectured the purpose to the VIP subscription program in the first place, beyond "Kabam greedy, make more money." I'm pretty sure it is designed to make money, but so is every other cash offer. But in fact, making more money than they do now is I think incidental in the short term. I suspect there's a specific target they are aiming for, and I'm curious to see if anyone else guesses what that target is, and whether Kabam succeeds in hitting it.

I will say this: the response to the announcement has been more *positive* than I had originally guessed. Sure, there are a lot of complaints, but compared to other announcements in the past the actual *number* of complaints is far less, and there are a lot more mixed reactions here and elsewhere than I initially thought there would be. That suggests to me the program is going to be more popular with more players than might be obvious. In that respect, I think the test is more likely to succeed than fail.

Lormif

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.

You really think that is important. You made a non constructive post dismissing people trying to discuss this on the forums. You literally did what you are complaining others are supposedly doing. How about stop the name calling and discuss it.

UlfricFrost

Wow! I agree with allot of other players. Most of this should be part of a quality of life update especially the inventory increase. Making money off of crystal openings is understandable and whatever bundles that you have for sale. But this as a whole is a slap in the face. Shame on you Kabam for putting a much needed update that should be free to all players behind a paywall. You join the despicable ranks along with EA and Activision.

DNA3000

[removed by mod]

It is against the forum rules to accuse any forum poster, directly named or otherwise, of being a company shill, an anonymous Kabam employee, or a company sock puppet account.

GroundedWisdom

Hopefully this is just a test run and no one buys it so they realize what can make them money and adjust appropriately.
In a game as a service, everything is a test run.

In the novel Starship Troopers the main character recounts a high school class in which the teacher asks a student to objectively justify why they should continue to use the political system they do (in which only military service veterans are allowed to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or serve in the government). The student gives a bunch of answers, some from the textbook and some off the top of his head all of which the teacher dismisses. Then the teacher apologizes and says he gave the student a trick question: the objective reason to continue using the political system they use is because it has shown itself to work, and the fact that something works is the only practical justification for continuing to do anything.

All online games like this are heavily data-driven businesses. They know which champions players use the most. Which ones deal the most damage. Which content generates the most rewards to the most players in the least amount of time. How long the average player grinds arena. And they know which offers are bought more and less, which kinds of offers are more and less successful, and which ones are more successful with different segments of the player population. Things are done so long as they work, and only so long as they work.

It is kind of interesting to me that no one (that I can recall) has either guessed, stated, or conjectured the purpose to the VIP subscription program in the first place, beyond "Kabam greedy, make more money." I'm pretty sure it is designed to make money, but so is every other cash offer. But in fact, making more money than they do now is I think incidental in the short term. I suspect there's a specific target they are aiming for, and I'm curious to see if anyone else guesses what that target is, and whether Kabam succeeds in hitting it.

I will say this: the response to the announcement has been more *positive* than I had originally guessed. Sure, there are a lot of complaints, but compared to other announcements in the past the actual *number* of complaints is far less, and there are a lot more mixed reactions here and elsewhere than I initially thought there would be. That suggests to me the program is going to be more popular with more players than might be obvious. In that respect, I think the test is more likely to succeed than fail.

Well, if I had to venture a guess off the top of my head, perhaps consistent loyalty? People are more apt to log on when they buy Subscriptions.

Akhilxcx

[Removed by Mod]

wow you are the one that's filling up 10 pages of the thread with your buddies who always tell everyone else to not complain about anything kabam does and you are blaming one person who just don't want to hear your pro kabam agendas. seriously bruh!

Akhilxcx

[removed by Mod]

and tell me isn't is morally wrong to say f2p players don't have a say in this just bcoz they aren't paying customers. not saying you are doing that but read some comments in this thread that says f2p player opinions doesn't count as anything

Akhilxcx

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.
You really think that is important. You made a non constructive post dismissing people trying to discuss this on the forums. You literally did what you are complaining others are supposedly doing. How about stop the name calling and discuss it.
wow you are the one that's filling up 10 pages of the thread with your buddies who always tell everyone else to not complain about anything kabam does and you are blaming one person who just don't want to hear your pro kabam agendas. seriously bruh!
I never once told anyone not to complain, nice strawman, and what about the other people filling up 20 pages of a threat with shill, money grab and the like, do you think we like hearing these things constantly either? Seriously Bruh! It is two ways.

so why don't you stop so others can stop name calling too. plus the way i see it if you have given your opinions just enjoy man if you think other players don't hear you why do you feel the need to reply them.

Lormif

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.
You really think that is important. You made a non constructive post dismissing people trying to discuss this on the forums. You literally did what you are complaining others are supposedly doing. How about stop the name calling and discuss it.
wow you are the one that's filling up 10 pages of the thread with your buddies who always tell everyone else to not complain about anything kabam does and you are blaming one person who just don't want to hear your pro kabam agendas. seriously bruh!
I never once told anyone not to complain, nice strawman, and what about the other people filling up 20 pages of a threat with shill, money grab and the like, do you think we like hearing these things constantly either? Seriously Bruh! It is two ways.
so why don't you stop so others can stop name calling too. plus the way i see it if you have given your opinions just enjoy man if you think other players don't hear you why do you feel the need to reply them.

I have never done any name calling, and 90+% of the people I have been replying to are people who replied to me. This is a discussion board, discussions are allowed. If you want to express your opinion in an echo chamber there are lots of other options.

DNA3000

Hopefully this is just a test run and no one buys it so they realize what can make them money and adjust appropriately.
In a game as a service, everything is a test run.

In the novel Starship Troopers the main character recounts a high school class in which the teacher asks a student to objectively justify why they should continue to use the political system they do (in which only military service veterans are allowed to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or serve in the government). The student gives a bunch of answers, some from the textbook and some off the top of his head all of which the teacher dismisses. Then the teacher apologizes and says he gave the student a trick question: the objective reason to continue using the political system they use is because it has shown itself to work, and the fact that something works is the only practical justification for continuing to do anything.

All online games like this are heavily data-driven businesses. They know which champions players use the most. Which ones deal the most damage. Which content generates the most rewards to the most players in the least amount of time. How long the average player grinds arena. And they know which offers are bought more and less, which kinds of offers are more and less successful, and which ones are more successful with different segments of the player population. Things are done so long as they work, and only so long as they work.

It is kind of interesting to me that no one (that I can recall) has either guessed, stated, or conjectured the purpose to the VIP subscription program in the first place, beyond "Kabam greedy, make more money." I'm pretty sure it is designed to make money, but so is every other cash offer. But in fact, making more money than they do now is I think incidental in the short term. I suspect there's a specific target they are aiming for, and I'm curious to see if anyone else guesses what that target is, and whether Kabam succeeds in hitting it.

I will say this: the response to the announcement has been more *positive* than I had originally guessed. Sure, there are a lot of complaints, but compared to other announcements in the past the actual *number* of complaints is far less, and there are a lot more mixed reactions here and elsewhere than I initially thought there would be. That suggests to me the program is going to be more popular with more players than might be obvious. In that respect, I think the test is more likely to succeed than fail.
Well, if I had to venture a guess off the top of my head, perhaps consistent loyalty? People are more apt to log on when they buy Subscriptions.

Things like the calendar do that directly, because there's a reward for every day you log in. The subscription should encourage players to play more indirectly, because many of the rewards aren't just handed to you: you have to play to earn them (even the gold is placed behind one fight). But that's a kind of diffuse encouragement: you have to play, but not really all the time.

I think it is more specific than that. I mentioned earlier that I think systems like this usually come with associated veteran reward systems. I think veteran reward systems more directly try to build loyalty and gameplay engagement: the more you play, the more perks you unlock. VIP subs do a related thing, for a different kind of engagement.

GroundedWisdom

Hopefully this is just a test run and no one buys it so they realize what can make them money and adjust appropriately.
In a game as a service, everything is a test run.

In the novel Starship Troopers the main character recounts a high school class in which the teacher asks a student to objectively justify why they should continue to use the political system they do (in which only military service veterans are allowed to gain full citizenship and the right to vote or serve in the government). The student gives a bunch of answers, some from the textbook and some off the top of his head all of which the teacher dismisses. Then the teacher apologizes and says he gave the student a trick question: the objective reason to continue using the political system they use is because it has shown itself to work, and the fact that something works is the only practical justification for continuing to do anything.

All online games like this are heavily data-driven businesses. They know which champions players use the most. Which ones deal the most damage. Which content generates the most rewards to the most players in the least amount of time. How long the average player grinds arena. And they know which offers are bought more and less, which kinds of offers are more and less successful, and which ones are more successful with different segments of the player population. Things are done so long as they work, and only so long as they work.

It is kind of interesting to me that no one (that I can recall) has either guessed, stated, or conjectured the purpose to the VIP subscription program in the first place, beyond "Kabam greedy, make more money." I'm pretty sure it is designed to make money, but so is every other cash offer. But in fact, making more money than they do now is I think incidental in the short term. I suspect there's a specific target they are aiming for, and I'm curious to see if anyone else guesses what that target is, and whether Kabam succeeds in hitting it.

I will say this: the response to the announcement has been more *positive* than I had originally guessed. Sure, there are a lot of complaints, but compared to other announcements in the past the actual *number* of complaints is far less, and there are a lot more mixed reactions here and elsewhere than I initially thought there would be. That suggests to me the program is going to be more popular with more players than might be obvious. In that respect, I think the test is more likely to succeed than fail.
Well, if I had to venture a guess off the top of my head, perhaps consistent loyalty? People are more apt to log on when they buy Subscriptions.
Things like the calendar do that directly, because there's a reward for every day you log in. The subscription should encourage players to play more indirectly, because many of the rewards aren't just handed to you: you have to play to earn them (even the gold is placed behind one fight). But that's a kind of diffuse encouragement: you have to play, but not really all the time.

I think it is more specific than that. I mentioned earlier that I think systems like this usually come with associated veteran reward systems. I think veteran reward systems more directly try to build loyalty and gameplay engagement: the more you play, the more perks you unlock. VIP subs do a related thing, for a different kind of engagement.

Hmm...I see. My guess was somewhat related to the Calendar. It encourages people to log on consistently over 3 months. Also, the existence of the Collector's Daily Card more regularly. So I suppose I was half right. Lol. Thanks for the perspective.

Akhilxcx

[Removed by Mod]

let me rephrase if people are name calling you and others who support this sigil idea why not just stop bcoz people who made up their minds that this is bad won't be listening to you no matter what. also all i hear is kabam needs to make money somehow i don't get it. what are you kabam's marketing team?? why should i care about kabam's revenue or profits or whatever i just want in game improvements as a player that's it

Lormif

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.
You really think that is important. You made a non constructive post dismissing people trying to discuss this on the forums. You literally did what you are complaining others are supposedly doing. How about stop the name calling and discuss it.
wow you are the one that's filling up 10 pages of the thread with your buddies who always tell everyone else to not complain about anything kabam does and you are blaming one person who just don't want to hear your pro kabam agendas. seriously bruh!
I never once told anyone not to complain, nice strawman, and what about the other people filling up 20 pages of a threat with shill, money grab and the like, do you think we like hearing these things constantly either? Seriously Bruh! It is two ways.
so why don't you stop so others can stop name calling too. plus the way i see it if you have given your opinions just enjoy man if you think other players don't hear you why do you feel the need to reply them.
I have never done any name calling, and 90+% of the people I have been replying to are people who replied to me. This is a discussion board, discussions are allowed. If you want to express your opinion in an echo chamber there are lots of other options.
let me rephrase if people are name calling you and others who support this sigil idea why not just stop bcoz people who made up their minds that this is bad won't be listening to you no matter what. also all i hear is kabam needs to make money somehow i don't get it. what are you kabam's marketing team?? why should i care about kabam's revenue or profits or whatever i just want in game improvements as a player that's it

Why do you keep asking me about things I supposedly stated that I never actually stated.. That being said it is a valid argument, because they do need to make it. Why do you have to accuse me of being part of their marketing team?

You should care about their revenue and profit if you want the game to continue, improvements that cost the game its ability to function will lead to a dead game.

Lormif

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.
You really think that is important. You made a non constructive post dismissing people trying to discuss this on the forums. You literally did what you are complaining others are supposedly doing. How about stop the name calling and discuss it.
wow you are the one that's filling up 10 pages of the thread with your buddies who always tell everyone else to not complain about anything kabam does and you are blaming one person who just don't want to hear your pro kabam agendas. seriously bruh!
I never once told anyone not to complain, nice strawman, and what about the other people filling up 20 pages of a threat with shill, money grab and the like, do you think we like hearing these things constantly either? Seriously Bruh! It is two ways.
so why don't you stop so others can stop name calling too. plus the way i see it if you have given your opinions just enjoy man if you think other players don't hear you why do you feel the need to reply them.
I have never done any name calling, and 90+% of the people I have been replying to are people who replied to me. This is a discussion board, discussions are allowed. If you want to express your opinion in an echo chamber there are lots of other options.
let me rephrase if people are name calling you and others who support this sigil idea why not just stop bcoz people who made up their minds that this is bad won't be listening to you no matter what. also all i hear is kabam needs to make money somehow i don't get it. what are you kabam's marketing team?? why should i care about kabam's revenue or profits or whatever i just want in game improvements as a player that's it

17. Don’t accuse fellow Summoners of being 'Kabam Employees' or shills. An opposing comment or observation isn’t a crime, and those types of accusations shut down any constructive discussion within the thread. We promise that Kabam Moderators and Developers will always let you know they are a member of staff. You will know this by their Forum title, Kabam_ModName. We have a ZERO sock puppet policy and will continue to do so.

Note it does not say directly or indirectly, it says dont do it.

Lormif

In any event, this is becoming tiresome. This isn't a Thread on who should or shouldn't participate based on the prejudice that people are Trolls and anything they say is derailing. Believe it or not before this side-bar, we were actually discussing the subject. That doesn't have to mean we're all in agreement, and if others have a different perspective, that doesn't mean they're trying to derail things. They just don't agree. I'm personally going back to what we're here to discuss. Not who should and shouldn't participate. Part of being respectful is keeping those views to ourselves. That's about all I have to say on that.

So stop arguing just to argue.
We were discussing the topic until the Company shills started in. If the same handful of pro-company people would stop direct attacks on people’s input this post would be more constructive. The same handful of people immediately go after any pro player comment, pushing the pro Company agenda. We get it you are undercover employees with game and forum accounts lol
Chill. People have a right to discuss, it’s a forum lol
You literally just called people "company shills" and then in the next sentence complain about people making direct attacks and making posts more constructive, and then dismiss people trying to discuss this and how it us unfair to your right to discuss.. I am not sure you understand anything you are saying.
I sure did. Also didn’t name anyone directly.
It is against the forum rules to accuse any forum poster, directly named or otherwise, of being a company shill, an anonymous Kabam employee, or a company sock puppet account.
I said company shill, yes but never directly named or inferred anyone. Please point of this as direct violation of TOS.
I’ll wait.

Lormif

@Akhilxcx sorry about the last one, clicked quote on the wrong one it seems.