Summoner Sigil - Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just announced the introduction of our brand new service, the Summoner Sigil!

The Summoner Sigil is a subscription based service that delivers a number of Bonuses, all for the introductory price of a Star-Lord’s Loot Bag (9.99 USD) every 30 days. Find all the information, and learn about our 7-Day Free Trial for all Summoners (Level 10+), over here!

Comments

DNA3000

I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.
Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
Even if whales bought it with cash, that would completely miss the point to the Sigil sub. Nothing the whales do has anything to do with the purpose of the VIP sub. It is great if they buy it, but they aren't the primary target. Smaller spenders, and the people on the fence about whether to spend or not, are.

There are always lots of players in a free to play game that can afford to spend, would spend if they felt the value was there, but aren't enticed by most of the normal offers, because most normal offers have low value for reasons I've explained before. This targets them. That's why you can't buy them with units, that's why they don't cost a trivial amount like a buck, that's why all the perks in the sub have strict caps on how much value you can extract out of it.
Fair points.
If I may rephrase: Problem for kabam there is that anyone that spends money would also have a preference to use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.

I think the problem is not that players wouldn't spend, which of course you're correct that most wouldn't. I think the issue being targeted by the subscription is that many players think their cash isn't worth spending at all.

Every offer is also a message. Unit offers say: you can grind or you can spend. If you grind, your time is worth something to the game. Cash offers say: if you spend, you'll get opportunities non-spenders won't get, because we need you to keep the game running. You have to balance the game between both messages, because you need grinders and you need spenders.

The Sigil offer is, I believe, targeted at mid-level spenders. They are willing to spend more than a buck or two, but they won't spend hundreds of dollars and they often feel like there's no point in spending usually, because on the one hand they can grind most things because their time is worth something, but conversely if they try to get ahead in the game the whales will swamp them out anyway. This offer is, among other things, targeted at them: it says if you're willing to spend ten bucks a month, we'll give you a bunch of things that will be valuable to you, but will probably be less interesting to the whales because they already buy way more than the Sigil contains. And even if they do buy it, they won't be able to get more value than you, because everything is capped. Psychologically, it sends the message that the game cares about their medium money as much as they do the whale money. So they think their money means something, and isn't just an afterthought after the whales. And if they think their money is meaningful, they might spend more of it in the long run.

Good monetization strategy is always about the long game.

Xdonre

DNA3000 stated:
Actually, what I wonder is how people can point to the company that makes one of the more successful mobile games out there, that attracts thousands of people to play it and spend in it every day, that made the most successful Marvel licensed property in the space and managed to keep it going for almost five years and running, and say they are out of touch with their customers.

You know I would probably imagine that the Top execs at defunct companies like Toys R US, Circuit City, & quite a few others businesses expressed similar sentiments...Although I would imagine that an organization that implemented a forum to allow their customers to communicate their thoughts & opinions would be wise to consider both the pros & cons of its customers.

Xdonre

Demonfryze states: How did you come to the conclusion it failed miserably? It hasn't even been released yet. Judging something off an incredibly, incredibly small percentage in a thread will always mislead you. This thread is a mixed bag of opinions.

You can't make a conclusion until its been released. To them as a company, this is enticing. Time will tell if it worked or not.

Well that was quite a leap across the pond...let me assist w/clearing the murkiness of this water... I am actually discussing the announcement of the tentatively scheduled offer & based on the comments even those who attempt to be pro Sigil the offer is not being wholeheartedly embraced by the community.

KoperBoy

I think sigil should cost in units instead of real $$ so even FTP can get it.
Problem for kabam there is that the whales would also use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
Even if whales bought it with cash, that would completely miss the point to the Sigil sub. Nothing the whales do has anything to do with the purpose of the VIP sub. It is great if they buy it, but they aren't the primary target. Smaller spenders, and the people on the fence about whether to spend or not, are.

There are always lots of players in a free to play game that can afford to spend, would spend if they felt the value was there, but aren't enticed by most of the normal offers, because most normal offers have low value for reasons I've explained before. This targets them. That's why you can't buy them with units, that's why they don't cost a trivial amount like a buck, that's why all the perks in the sub have strict caps on how much value you can extract out of it.
Fair points.
If I may rephrase: Problem for kabam there is that anyone that spends money would also have a preference to use units and essentially nobody would spend $ on the subscription. So it wouldnt work for them.
I think the problem is not that players wouldn't spend, which of course you're correct that most wouldn't. I think the issue being targeted by the subscription is that many players think their cash isn't worth spending at all.

Every offer is also a message. Unit offers say: you can grind or you can spend. If you grind, your time is worth something to the game. Cash offers say: if you spend, you'll get opportunities non-spenders won't get, because we need you to keep the game running. You have to balance the game between both messages, because you need grinders and you need spenders.

The Sigil offer is, I believe, targeted at mid-level spenders. They are willing to spend more than a buck or two, but they won't spend hundreds of dollars and they often feel like there's no point in spending usually, because on the one hand they can grind most things because their time is worth something, but conversely if they try to get ahead in the game the whales will swamp them out anyway. This offer is, among other things, targeted at them: it says if you're willing to spend ten bucks a month, we'll give you a bunch of things that will be valuable to you, but will probably be less interesting to the whales because they already buy way more than the Sigil contains. And even if they do buy it, they won't be able to get more value than you, because everything is capped. Psychologically, it sends the message that the game cares about their medium money as much as they do the whale money. So they think their money means something, and isn't just an afterthought after the whales. And if they think their money is meaningful, they might spend more of it in the long run.

Good monetization strategy is always about the long game.

100x this. I will buy the sigil because it saves me some arena time. Time that I will use on other things. And 10$ a month is really not a lot. Most people that complain about sigil are probably the ones who would like everything for free. Do you think developers and designers will work for free?

After 1 year hiatus from the game, it's nice to see dna3000 is still here. One of the best posters.

Demonzfyre

Demonfryze states: How did you come to the conclusion it failed miserably? It hasn't even been released yet. Judging something off an incredibly, incredibly small percentage in a thread will always mislead you. This thread is a mixed bag of opinions.

You can't make a conclusion until its been released. To them as a company, this is enticing. Time will tell if it worked or not.

Well that was quite a leap across the pond...let me assist w/clearing the murkiness of this water... I am actually discussing the announcement of the tentatively scheduled offer & based on the comments even those who attempt to be pro Sigil the offer is not being wholeheartedly embraced by the community.

Again, the people commenting they don't like it is probably .001% of the player base. You cant draw any conusions from this thread.

ESF

If a Kabam person reads these two questions -- I am not tagging anyone but would certainly be appreciative of any kind of response, and I understand that it may not yield a definitive answer, but I would like to know if it's even possible:

If the Sigil program does well, could it be expanded to where we might see different skins of existing characters or exclusive characters as part of a subscription package?

Because that's what I want. I don't know if it's possible, or if it's even something that would be considered.

But if it's not even something that could ever happen, it would be nice to know. Because I am willing to roll the dice and support a subscription service if it is possible in the future because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is, but I am being honest by saying that the Sigil package as currently structured is less interesting to me if it is likely not ever to expand.
In my judgment, this is less a question of money and more a question of concept. The game's concept is playing the Marvel characters, and that tends to lend itself less to customization. Different games treat this in different ways, and from what I've seen Marvel itself has been less interested in the idea of players making "their own versions" of the Marvel characters and more into making the characters themselves "iconic." If I'm remembering correctly, this resistance is something that goes all the way back to Marvel Universe Online, aka the MMO that was never released.

I'm not saying no Marvel game has customization, or that Marvel would never let customization happen here of any kind. Just that Marvel tends to be finicky with their IP, and I don't think money is the thing that would drive them in this area.

When Kabam makes a new champion, whether based on existing Marvel characters or inventing all new ones, they work with Marvel, and at the end of the day those champions become actual Marvel characters. Marvel signs off on every design. Letting players customize the champions is kind of sort of letting players "make" their own versions of the characters without Marvel approval. My impression is that Marvel is not comfortable with that idea in general. And making Marvel-approved skins for the champions would be time consuming, time you couldn't spend on designing the look of new champions.

But of course if I've learned anything from two decades of MMOs, its never say never.

Thanks for taking the time to respond; appreciate it

HENRIQUE_FORTE

and makes you wonder why would a company whose livelihood is solely dependent on its customers be so out of touch w/ its customer base...the saga continues.
Actually, what I wonder is how people can point to the company that makes one of the more successful mobile games out there, that attracts thousands of people to play it and spend in it every day, that made the most successful Marvel licensed property in the space and managed to keep it going for almost five years and running, and say they are out of touch with their customers.

Every day hundreds of thousands of people play the game, thousands of people spend in the game, and dozens of people complain about the game on the internet. Who's supposed to be out of touch with the majority again?

It's not the game that is successful, it's the franchise. If this game had Mad Joe, Insane Bill and Crazy Frank instead of Wolverine, Cap America and Hulk it would have been out for business a long time ago. Would you put up with these bugs and such if it wasn't for the Marvel characters?

DarkestDestroyer

I don’t understand the 20% XP boost.

Majority of the buyers are gonna be level 60, they should swap it to gold or bc. Just seems such a stupid inclusion.

BlackJ4zz

To all you F2P players out their

https://youtu.be/nqceihRGKPQ

ESF

To all you F2P players out their https://youtu.be/nqceihRGKPQ

Is he one of the ones people actually send money to watch them play the game? But he's F2P? Never gonna spend a penny on the game?

I mean, for real.

First of all, as always, people have a choice in life.

But are the people losing their minds about Kabam actually charging for a service that helps them employ people who actually MAKE THE GAME just as angry at the guy who plays that game FOR FREE but takes money from other people?

How does that work? What's the difference?

If you're cool with some guy on YouTube getting paid, why aren't you cool with Kabam -- again, the people who actually MAKE THE GAME -- getting paid?

ESF

Deleted comment on my own

GroundedWisdom

and makes you wonder why would a company whose livelihood is solely dependent on its customers be so out of touch w/ its customer base...the saga continues.
Actually, what I wonder is how people can point to the company that makes one of the more successful mobile games out there, that attracts thousands of people to play it and spend in it every day, that made the most successful Marvel licensed property in the space and managed to keep it going for almost five years and running, and say they are out of touch with their customers.

Every day hundreds of thousands of people play the game, thousands of people spend in the game, and dozens of people complain about the game on the internet. Who's supposed to be out of touch with the majority again?
It's not the game that is successful, it's the franchise. If this game had Mad Joe, Insane Bill and Crazy Frank instead of Wolverine, Cap America and Hulk it would have been out for business a long time ago. Would you put up with these bugs and such if it wasn't for the Marvel characters?

Marvel is what drew us to the game, but we play it because we love it. I'm sure some pucker up to hear that, but people stick with something that long because they love it. While most of us are Marvel Fans, the Characters themselves aren't the entire game. They're just in it. If we weren't invested into the game itself, we wouldn't be here. We can find Marvel in many other places. As for bugs, it's Online Gaming. That comes with the territory.

ESF

Deleted comment on my own

LOL I'm not sure who Disagreed, but I was annoyed, and posting while annoyed is always a bad idea

unknown

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SparkAlot

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Tiered subscriptions.

More mastery points.
Better odds on the crystals.
Potion & revives are 20% more potent.
Gold drops 20% more.
Have a "Help all" and a "Request help for all" button.
Have the ability to disable all pop-ups that try to sell you something.
Have the ability to turn off all background animation in fights.

... all for the low, low price of $100/month.

Worknprogress

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Tiered subscriptions.

More mastery points.
Better odds on the crystals.
Potion & revives are 20% more potent.
Gold drops 20% more.
Have a "Help all" and a "Request help for all" button.
Have the ability to disable all pop-ups that try to sell you something.
Have the ability to turn off all background animation in fights.

... all for the low, low price of $100/month.

Cool story chicken little

Xdonre

Demonzfyre stated: Again, the people commenting they don't like it is probably .001% of the player base. You cant draw any conusions from this thread.

Your conclusion could possibly be true. However should consider all feedback from customers that is using this forum that is actually endorsed by them to obtain that valuable feedback. And in business all feedback whether negative or positive is valuable... Regarding my personal spending...I have monthly entertainment budget that is allotted for MCOC. Although lately the offers have either not appealed to me or due to my progression and the progression of the game I can not justify spending a certain amount of money on items that IMO have been drastically devalued due to the games progression...which is my major gripe regarding the announced Sigil ... if the "pro-sigil" summoners feel that overall the Sigil does not offer a large amount of incentives that the "anti-sigil" summoners should be concerned about... Why should I endorse it...In conclusion from "my perspective" I can't comprehend why Kabam is not trying to release a monthly service that the majority of the community would feel it is worth investing their moneys...Just my thoughts.

Demonzfyre

Demonzfyre stated: Again, the people commenting they don't like it is probably .001% of the player base. You cant draw any conusions from this thread.

Your conclusion could possibly be true. However should consider all feedback from customers that is using this forum that is actually endorsed by them to obtain that valuable feedback. And in business all feedback whether negative or positive is valuable... Regarding my personal spending...I have monthly entertainment budget that is allotted for MCOC. Although lately the offers have either not appealed to me or due to my progression and the progression of the game I can not justify spending a certain amount of money on items that IMO have been drastically devalued due to the games progression...which is my major gripe regarding the announced Sigil ... if the "pro-sigil" summoners feel that overall the Sigil does not offer a large amount of incentives that the "anti-sigil" summoners should be concerned about... Why should I endorse it...In conclusion from "my perspective" I can't comprehend why Kabam is not trying to release a monthly service that the majority of the community would feel it is worth investing their moneys...Just my thoughts.

Because the community is greedy and most don't understand a business model. Everything should be handed to them for free.

Coachidite

I haven't read most of this discussion, and I'll admit that firstly. I'd have to imagine that it isn't too pretty, though.

I digress. Honestly, I don't mind the Sigil if it stays at the current price. Whatever. I'm not adverse to paying that amount for those advantages. What I want to do here is actually put a suggestion out there - somehow, someway, could the folks at Kabam use this to make the Solo Crystals useful in some capacity?? I'd love to see a trade-in at the ISO Black Market for some hero crystal shards or even catalyst fragments. Just a thought. I'll step back out of the discussion now.

Xdonre

Demonzfyre states: Because the community is greedy and most don't understand a business model. Everything should be handed to them for free.

Well I am not going to stereotype the entire community based on my personal opinions...however in the end I just don't believe this monthly service will be great asset for my account :-( but at the very least during its initial release the Sigil will be optional & we get a free 7 day trail ;-)

Lormif

Demonzfyre stated: Again, the people commenting they don't like it is probably .001% of the player base. You cant draw any conusions from this thread.

Your conclusion could possibly be true. However should consider all feedback from customers that is using this forum that is actually endorsed by them to obtain that valuable feedback. And in business all feedback whether negative or positive is valuable... Regarding my personal spending...I have monthly entertainment budget that is allotted for MCOC. Although lately the offers have either not appealed to me or due to my progression and the progression of the game I can not justify spending a certain amount of money on items that IMO have been drastically devalued due to the games progression...which is my major gripe regarding the announced Sigil ... if the "pro-sigil" summoners feel that overall the Sigil does not offer a large amount of incentives that the "anti-sigil" summoners should be concerned about... Why should I endorse it...In conclusion from "my perspective" I can't comprehend why Kabam is not trying to release a monthly service that the majority of the community would feel it is worth investing their moneys...Just my thoughts.

to put simply, what you are implying seems like things that would give a competitive advantage. These things do not.

unknown

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bdsmith269

For anyone who feels that the outrage response is unnecessary, please do consider that this is essentially barring f2p players from competing at high levels by offering more items, energy, cheaper items etc. To paying players. I’m not going to purchase this out of principle not because I don’t spend on this game, because I do spend. Just consider that this is highly unfair to f2p players. Bonus energy, or cheaper items alone would be more palatable imo

I spend on this game. Now that's out of the way, how would kabam make money if no one payed money? The answer is annoying advertising every 10 seconds. It is not free to create so I understand that money needs to be generated. I think the reason for the outrage is that kabam has been charging money and a lot of money for upgrade materials and crystals that often leads to you feeling sick for spending the money. I think this is a great compromise to generate money. It creates a better playing experience for a monthly fee. If you don't pay then just be happy that others do to help keep the game alive.

Drewm

I don't feel like looking through 20 pages of bashing. If I am uncollected can all do all gold quest uncollected and below or just uncollected? @Kabam Miike

Demonzfyre

I don't feel like looking through 20 pages of bashing. If I am uncollected can all do all gold quest uncollected and below or just uncollected? @Kabam Miike

Its just an amount based on progression. You'll only get the uncollected amount.

Demonzfyre

For anyone who feels that the outrage response is unnecessary, please do consider that this is essentially barring f2p players from competing at high levels by offering more items, energy, cheaper items etc. To paying players. I’m not going to purchase this out of principle not because I don’t spend on this game, because I do spend. Just consider that this is highly unfair to f2p players. Bonus energy, or cheaper items alone would be more palatable imo
I spend on this game. Now that's out of the way, how would kabam make money if no one payed money? The answer is annoying advertising every 10 seconds. It is not free to create so I understand that money needs to be generated. I think the reason for the outrage is that kabam has been charging money and a lot of money for upgrade materials and crystals that often leads to you feeling sick for spending the money. I think this is a great compromise to generate money. It creates a better playing experience for a monthly fee. If you don't pay then just be happy that others do to help keep the game alive.

Upgrade materials and crystals can be earned for free. Units can be earned for free. You don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to.

Xdonre

Lormif stated: to put simply, what you are implying seems like things that would give a competitive advantage. These things do not.

From my observation there is really only one competitive component in MCOC & that is AW all the other components primarily rely on the summoner playing against the AI. Therefore I would rather pay a monthly service for more enticing resources & rewards than worry about the competitive advantages these rewards may or may not have on AW... just my thoughts.

Willa08

Going lose a few players with this in the future. What am i going to do with an XP boost on lvl60? But overall this is still a choice you have to make. Me personally am happy with the rate of my rewards and progression. No need for me to buy this. If you need gold play arena, if you need cats play strong maps of AQ.

Webby72

For anyone who feels that the outrage response is unnecessary, please do consider that this is essentially barring f2p players from competing at high levels by offering more items, energy, cheaper items etc. To paying players. I’m not going to purchase this out of principle not because I don’t spend on this game, because I do spend. Just consider that this is highly unfair to f2p players. Bonus energy, or cheaper items alone would be more palatable imo
I spend on this game. Now that's out of the way, how would kabam make money if no one payed money? The answer is annoying advertising every 10 seconds. It is not free to create so I understand that money needs to be generated. I think the reason for the outrage is that kabam has been charging money and a lot of money for upgrade materials and crystals that often leads to you feeling sick for spending the money. I think this is a great compromise to generate money. It creates a better playing experience for a monthly fee. If you don't pay then just be happy that others do to help keep the game alive.

I’ll be honest, this was an overreaction on my part here, before I fully thought it through. In my opinion however, this does clearly put a mark on summoners as to whether they buy the sigil or not (possibly even becoming a necessity to join certain alliances) and offers a small but noticeable increase in rewards. This increase would be equivalent to an extra 5*/5* featured a month and more gold, energy, items etc. As much as it’s not game-breaking, this will add up, and create a rift between f2p and p2w players overtime. This would be even more noticeable if they do indeed make the sigil more lucrative, or add different levels etc. I hope that clears up the point I made.

As for spending to keep the game alive, I am in agreement with you that it must happen. That being said, the odd deal for a high cost that many pay for would draw in lots of purchases, without needing to give large boosts in many ways. It has always been that there are money based deals which boost your game, and it always should be that way.

I just feel that this sigil and subscriptions that offer anything major that reliably show up month after month are the wrong direction for the future of this game.

El_Farsie

The benefits are pretty weak tbh. Only people in desperation would buy this. There should be much more units, rank up items & 5* shards for me to even consider buying.