She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

This is absolutely terrible. People ranked her for that reason only. She had a unique ability that’s absolutely not op, but of course Kabam has to nerf her...

Comments

BalzSoLo_1

Apparently you guys feel the need to spend time and resources to fix this so called bug for she hulk which has been out for months after you updated her now just because it may be affecting your revenue you want to act on it but there are several bugs in this game including other champions who can chain to heavy That you have no concern for fixing and if you do acknowledge any bug we report that you think should be fixed, you simply say we will look into it and it may be months before we can address this, this is totally unfair. A lot of us who were lucky enough to get her we’re very happy with the fact that you updated her, but now several months later you want to change her, this is not fair to us or equal as you try to state you like to be with all players now, if you feel like you need to (fix) her like you say, then you need to fix all the (bugs) That are reported and that you find no matter what it cost you in time and resources, that would be fair to the whole player base, but selecting the ones that you feel are affecting your revenue and acting on that Souly and immediately We will not be tolerated by us anymore, this is a form of bait and switch,you are updating a character so people will pour resources into them like I did and bring them all the way up from rank one to rank five using stones catalyst and gold (which is a great amount of precious resources ) only to turn around and Nerf the champion Yes I say Nerf because you were not fixing the other Champions that had problems,some have the same issue you’re calling a bug and you have left them like that, again this is unfair and if you really want to proceed we will band together and contact the Better Business Bureau like we did before and let them know about the way you are managing this game again. And beings this isn’t the first time you’ve tried this or similar stuff they will quickly look into it,so that being said I think you should rethink this so called fixed and leave it alone because the whole player base does not own this champion nor do they spend the money to aquire this champion in order to complete content so this is not a great amount of people And should not really affect your revenue that much, although if we contact the Better Business Bureau then you will spend a lot of time and money and possibly refunding resources on fixing several several so called issues in this game that you like to ignore but are as you now report as a bug or not working as intended. these choice words that you use are not clouding any of us intelligent people if you truly feel like you need to so-called fix some stuff then you need to fix all the stuff we are compiling a list of issues and we are almost into the 20s, now calculate how much it’s gonna cost you to fix all that especially if you are on a time frame from the Better Business Bureau, this is a bigger issue than you think and if you continue with this action we will continue with our action I think your upper level people would not want such a thing to happen so how’s about sending out a retracted statement on this decision you so selfishly are deciding to do. You now say that you want to work with the player base so that you can do stuff we agree on,on this subject you are not. If you really wanna be fait, I suggest you look into the feedback of what the players think before you just selfishly decide to change something you recently updated no matter what it is otherwise you’re just like you were before and we will take action In Jesus name we pray that you will be as fair to us that we can be to you. Let’s get right with Jesus people.

Sincerely , A player who has spent a lot of money and time into your game who has dealt with a lot of your changes through the years and only feels you should now live up to the statement that you are concerned about us as a player base

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BalzSoLo_1

@Kabam Miike read my post plz sir. It’s above this one

CFree

@Kabam Miike read my post plz sir. It’s above this one

That is a wall of text. You may want to consider paragraphs and punctuation; they make it easier to get your point across.

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DrBruceWayne

Forced update, you joking? I was shocked when I got that, and I guess it "FIXES" She-Hulk

Kabam Lyra

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

jnikolas92

@Kabam Lyra very thankful that the team came to this conclusion.

DTMelodicMetal

Those articles discussed hit boxes, and a peculiarity to how Unity combines collision detection and frame rate synchronization. If for some reason you can't render frames fast enough to be real time, you have two options: slow down or skip frames. Unity skips frames (at least it does in the version MCOC uses according to DS) and because it doesn't interpolate collisions it can actually fail to render the moment when two things collide, and thus not even know they collided.

I don't think that's relevant here. This is more of a rhythm thing. I'm not an expert on Unity, but I know the basics of attack chaining in combat games. When I'm attacking with standard attacks the AI can't attack back with standard attacks, or combat wouldn't work. There are mechanics that basically say that when I execute a light attack there's a period of time during which the target can't actively control movement, and when the target can't activate attacks (these two things are often different: you can often move at times when you can't activate attacks). Our ability to chain attacks together up to a point but no farther is baked into how the attacks work: if we follow attack X with attack Y fast enough, there's no moment in time when the opponent can counterattack. But if we're too slow and we leave a gap in between X and Y, the AI can sneak an attack in the middle. When we use our second medium we ourselves are unable to attack for a window of time, and that window is long enough that the AI "escapes" his temporary inability to attack, and can attack back. This is what eventually truncates our attacks.

I suspect that the combination of all of these effects and how they interact with each other is referred to internally at Kabam as "cadence." And every champion probably is supposed to honor the same cadence rules: two mediums force a pause in the chain, as does four lights. This allows the AI to attack back. You have to hold a heavy to "charge" it for some minimum length of time, and I'm guessing this hold time is supposed to be longer than the "suppression" you place on your target when using light and medium attacks. This prevents sticking a heavy at the end of a combo sequence without the AI having an opportunity to attack back. This is probably also a "cadence" rule. But it's apparently also a rule the game isn't following, and thus the players have no way to know it exists.

I don't think DS has ever dug into these specific mechanics, but even if he did he could only figure out what the game does, not what rules the developers are supposedly following when they use those action primitives.

DickSlug doesn’t discuss “cadence” or speed of attack animations in the articles I provided. I cited those articles because MCOC’s hitboxes/collision detection are one aspect of what Miike referred to as cadence. Here’s a source to support this statement:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/69622/intercepting-is-broken-video-evidence-provided/

The above thread is from May of last year. I posted the thread in the forum’s general discussion section because I wasn’t sure if it was a bug. A moderator moved the thread to the forum’s bug section for “easier tracking”. Fifteen months later and the mechanics discussed in that thread (slow motion video evidence was provided) have not changed. If all champions had the same speed and cadence to their attacks, that bug should have been fixed by now.

Instead, all female champions that have overhead axe kicks as their 1st medium attacks - Storm, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Magik - still counter well-timed intercepts because their later than average contact point on their medium attacks combine with MCOC unity engine hitboxes mechanics to create cadence that is not seen in other champions’ medium attacks. Some champions display similar attack animation behavior, but these champions distance themselves from their opponents before starting their medium attack animations (e.g., Guillotine, Heimdall, Iron Man Infinity War, Nick Fury).

Futhermore, there have been times when statements from one Kabam employee have been previously or later contradicted by Kabam employee. Examples include Archangel’s neurotoxin overriding stun immunity and She-Hulk’s and Spider-Gwen’s slow ability being said to not work against the 6.2.6 Champion boss. When these things happen, players don’t know which source of information is accurate. Returning to that thread I posted fifteen months ago, I assumed DickSlug’s explanation of unity engine hitbox/whiffing mechanics was accurate. Why else would a cadence anomaly that affects 6 different champions not be acknowledged for more than a year when slow-motion video evidence had been provided?

Ordalca

"We are working on the steps required to create She-Hulk specific Rank Down Tickets and gather a list of players impacted to provide this compensation." via their announcement.

DTMelodicMetal

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

mitchy231

I am really glad that the right thing was done here. Thanks for hearing us Kabam.

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V1PER1987

So although it wasn’t addressed directly, it was indirectly stated that other champs that can chain heavy attacks like OML will eventually be fixed as well right?

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RogerRabs

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

Glad you made the right decision, but please follow through on your promise to have better communication moving forward. It is key to a healthy game.

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Worknprogress

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

But yet people never got this option after ranking champions that were flat out stated to be working correctly like mystic defenders with MD and AA after you changed them?

I'm not remotely upset that people will be able to rank SH down though (even though a lot already got what they needed and cleared 6.2.6). I just think it's laughable that people weren't given this option when champions and masteries that were explicitly stated by yourselves to be working as intended weren't given the same choice

Worknprogress

I'd gladly still take that dormammu RDT lol

Nick_Caine_32

Great decision here kabam. Thank you for listening to your players.

Not trying to add any argument or keep anything going but I have a legitimate question going back to Miikes original statement.

Should we be worried about other champs who have the ability to chain their combo into their heavy attack? Both of the champs in the beta now and many others as provided on this thread have this ability as well. Some more clarification on this so we can make rank up decisions would be very helpful. And maybe some clarification on abilities that aren’t specifically listed on their champion in game descriptions?

Fishweasel

@Kabam Lyra thank you for listening to your customer feedback

Rasilover

Wow they actually listened to the community for once

Patchie93

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

What about the people who ranked her to beat the 6.2.6 champion fight did so with a bugged She-Hulk who will now be able to take advantage of the bug and then rank her down and then rank up a new champion for other content.

This opens up a possibility for plenty of people to exploit this RDT

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Hi all,

Please see our announcement related to compensation for this issue.

Question is, if I rank her up now, will I still be eligible for the rank down ticket compensation?

Also, part of the discussion here is about the Champion boss on 6.2.6. From the conversation it looked like you were thinking on a way to fix this fight, in order to make it more fair, balanced and probably "fun", since only 2 or 3 champions are able to do this fight. Are you still discussing what you will be making in order to tune down the fight?

And what about the earlier nerf on she-hulk, with this last forced update? You gave a timeframe for people to be ready for it, and now is meaningless since the nerf went live

naeblisrex

I have follow up questions about the she-hulk specific RDTs. How far will we be able to rank her down? Also, will we get back the gold & ISO used to rank her up?

Nerfed2Def

Obviously the right thing. It is however appreciated.

CoatHang3r

I agree with Integral ^
You agree with... yourself?

Old joke from the old forums, had to be there. Had it as my signature until the mods edited it from me.

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