Thoughts on the new cheat

The game went down twice today and on top of that people are getting unlimited rewards while normal players are getting nothing ..great ..I'm sure kabam will just shut this down or give everyone 2* iron Patriots ..yay

Comments

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

LocoMotives wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

Id be fine with it if it was like gold and 3* shards but 5* shards, t1a to sell for t2a and t2a shards make this a HUGE issue. No way some people should be able to exploit a glitch and add t2a to their account. That's a massive unbalancing. T2a are the most important item in the game and a glitch should not be giving them out.

Then maybe the company should do a better job a quality control with their product. Spend more time making sure what they roll out works properly and isn't buggy and glitchy. Taking back form those to whom you gave, is not the way to do it. But you want to punish the players for the company's mistake? Don't we take enough punishment for their mistakes already?

That is ludicrously ignorant and childish.

You take punishment? It's a game. Don't play if you don't like it. And it's not "taking back from those to whom they gave". They didn't give anything. If a store leaves the door unlocked and somebody keeps going in and stealing stuff it's still theft regardless of the opinions on the company.

More like the store is selling diamond rings for $5 and knowingly doing it. There's no stealing going on, no modding or hacking. The store is being dumb and don't realize it.

No. It's not. Not even close.
If you go to an ATM to take out $300 and it gives out $20,000 guess what happens? The bank will come after you for all of that money and they will win. Doesn't matter that it was a glitch on their part. You return it or make them aware of it or you are responsible.

Actually they don't. Happened to me at a bank's ATM. Took out $300, gave me $900. Went inside to the teller and told them and wanted to make sure $900 didn't come out of my account. It didn't and told me to keep the extra $600 and thanked me for letting them know before they lost too much money and shut the machine off. I was happy, moved all the rest of my accounts to that bank and have been with only them ever since.

LocoMotives

Cool, guess we will find out Sparty

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

It's is 100% against their TOS. It's both reversible and bannable for exploiting a glitch.

Maybe it is, still would be a bad idea to enforce it.

Spartacus29

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Actually they don't. Happened to me at a bank's ATM. Took out $300, gave me $900. Went inside to the teller and told them and wanted to make sure $900 didn't come out of my account. It didn't and told me to keep the extra $600 and thanked me for letting them know before they lost too much money and shut the machine off. I was happy, moved all the rest of my accounts to that bank and have been with only them ever since.

Actually they do. Using your one example that is impossible to prove is even true does not change facts. A banks glitch does not make the money yours anymore than this glitch makes the rewards the users. The difference is that users are going back to the atm constantly in this case to keep getting extra. That is NOT OK.

People love to hate on kabam but this isn't about them it's about the thousands of players who are hurt by this.

Mr_Chris

They didn't ban the whales that ran through lol when they first launched it with the massive pi inflation bug. They instead made lol multiple times harder for everyone else. That being said the rewards should have been removed in that case and in this one.

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Actually they don't. Happened to me at a bank's ATM. Took out $300, gave me $900. Went inside to the teller and told them and wanted to make sure $900 didn't come out of my account. It didn't and told me to keep the extra $600 and thanked me for letting them know before they lost too much money and shut the machine off. I was happy, moved all the rest of my accounts to that bank and have been with only them ever since.

Actually they do. Using your one example that is impossible to prove is even true does not change facts. A banks glitch does not make the money yours anymore than this glitch makes the rewards the users. The difference is that users are going back to the atm constantly in this case to keep getting extra. That is NOT OK.

People love to hate on kabam but this isn't about them it's about the thousands of players who are hurt by this.

And it is kabam's mistake that it happened, not the players.

Thawnim

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Actually they don't. Happened to me at a bank's ATM. Took out $300, gave me $900. Went inside to the teller and told them and wanted to make sure $900 didn't come out of my account. It didn't and told me to keep the extra $600 and thanked me for letting them know before they lost too much money and shut the machine off. I was happy, moved all the rest of my accounts to that bank and have been with only them ever since.

Actually they do. Using your one example that is impossible to prove is even true does not change facts. A banks glitch does not make the money yours anymore than this glitch makes the rewards the users. The difference is that users are going back to the atm constantly in this case to keep getting extra. That is NOT OK.

People love to hate on kabam but this isn't about them it's about the thousands of players who are hurt by this.

And it is kabam's mistake that it happened, not the players.

I think there is a big difference between a simple mistake and an exploit though. To use your bank example: if you had gone back out and started using the ATM to get hundreds or thousands more money out of it then it is an exploit and would probably come with some form of punishment. The same can probably be inferred about players that found the exploit and continued to use it by purchasing energy refills to re-run the quests over and over.

Kpatrix

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

Id be fine with it if it was like gold and 3* shards but 5* shards, t1a to sell for t2a and t2a shards make this a HUGE issue. No way some people should be able to exploit a glitch and add t2a to their account. That's a massive unbalancing. T2a are the most important item in the game and a glitch should not be giving them out.

Then maybe the company should do a better job a quality control with their product. Spend more time making sure what they roll out works properly and isn't buggy and glitchy. Taking back form those to whom you gave, is not the way to do it. But you want to punish the players for the company's mistake? Don't we take enough punishment for their mistakes already?

That is ludicrously ignorant and childish.

You take punishment? It's a game. Don't play if you don't like it. And it's not "taking back from those to whom they gave". They didn't give anything. If a store leaves the door unlocked and somebody keeps going in and stealing stuff it's still theft regardless of the opinions on the company.

Nobody walked in and took anything. They did a quest and the company awarded too high of prizes. So if you walked up to the electronics store and they handed you a brand new TV and said if you walk around the block we will give you another one, a lot of people will walk around that block and get a second TV and a third, and fourth for as many times as the electronics store is willing to give them more. Now what you want to happen is the electronics store to come to those people's houses and say, ok, give them back now, thief.

That's not the same issue, they laid out the rewards in front of you, as well as the terms of service. Exploiting a glitch is not allowed. That analogy isn't even close to what is going on here. It's more like you go to the self checkout and scan a case of coke, and it charges you for a single. Even though the price is advertised right and you know there is a glitch, and then go back and get 23 more cases so that in the end you've paid full price but got 24x the quantity you were supposed to be paying for.

You are knowingly taking advantage of a pricing glitch in an automated system and if the guy at the door checks your receipt and it shows you've paid for 24 singles while you're trying to walk out with 24 cases, there is going to be a problem.

HoidCosmere

Thawnim wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Actually they don't. Happened to me at a bank's ATM. Took out $300, gave me $900. Went inside to the teller and told them and wanted to make sure $900 didn't come out of my account. It didn't and told me to keep the extra $600 and thanked me for letting them know before they lost too much money and shut the machine off. I was happy, moved all the rest of my accounts to that bank and have been with only them ever since.

Actually they do. Using your one example that is impossible to prove is even true does not change facts. A banks glitch does not make the money yours anymore than this glitch makes the rewards the users. The difference is that users are going back to the atm constantly in this case to keep getting extra. That is NOT OK.

People love to hate on kabam but this isn't about them it's about the thousands of players who are hurt by this.

And it is kabam's mistake that it happened, not the players.

I think there is a big difference between a simple mistake and an exploit though. To use your bank example: if you had gone back out and started using the ATM to get hundreds or thousands more money out of it then it is an exploit and would probably come with some form of punishment. The same can probably be inferred about players that found the exploit and continued to use it by purchasing energy refills to re-run the quests over and over.

At least that is a fair comparison. My feeling if I was in Kabam's shoes, is these items didn't actually cost us anything, it is not worth the backlash from the customers to go take them back. I think many are missing the point that these items aren't real. They hold no actual value. Each one handed out does not cost the company more in production, materials, shipping or labor cost. Kabam made a programming error, it happens, they ask the playing community to deal with it as they work on fixes, I don't think it is fair minded to then say that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their own errors.

HoidCosmere

Kpatrix wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

Id be fine with it if it was like gold and 3* shards but 5* shards, t1a to sell for t2a and t2a shards make this a HUGE issue. No way some people should be able to exploit a glitch and add t2a to their account. That's a massive unbalancing. T2a are the most important item in the game and a glitch should not be giving them out.

Then maybe the company should do a better job a quality control with their product. Spend more time making sure what they roll out works properly and isn't buggy and glitchy. Taking back form those to whom you gave, is not the way to do it. But you want to punish the players for the company's mistake? Don't we take enough punishment for their mistakes already?

That is ludicrously ignorant and childish.

You take punishment? It's a game. Don't play if you don't like it. And it's not "taking back from those to whom they gave". They didn't give anything. If a store leaves the door unlocked and somebody keeps going in and stealing stuff it's still theft regardless of the opinions on the company.

Nobody walked in and took anything. They did a quest and the company awarded too high of prizes. So if you walked up to the electronics store and they handed you a brand new TV and said if you walk around the block we will give you another one, a lot of people will walk around that block and get a second TV and a third, and fourth for as many times as the electronics store is willing to give them more. Now what you want to happen is the electronics store to come to those people's houses and say, ok, give them back now, thief.

That's not the same issue, they laid out the rewards in front of you, as well as the terms of service. Exploiting a glitch is not allowed. That analogy isn't even close to what is going on here. It's more like you go to the self checkout and scan a case of coke, and it charges you for a single. Even though the price is advertised right and you know there is a glitch, and then go back and get 23 more cases so that in the end you've paid full price but got 24x the quantity you were supposed to be paying for.

You are knowingly taking advantage of a pricing glitch in an automated system and if the guy at the door checks your receipt and it shows you've paid for 24 singles while you're trying to walk out with 24 cases, there is going to be a problem.

Fair comparison, but I disagree. If these items these people were getting held any actual value, I probably would agree. But there really is no getting around the fact that they don't and cost the company nothing to just let them keep the rewards.

You also have to account for the differences in the way kabam deals with errors that do not benefit the playing community. Their answer to us for the most part is deal with it we will try to fix it or hope you give up complaining about it. All I am saying to them in this case is the same, deal with it and work on trying to fix it.

Spartacus29

HoidCosmere wrote: »

At least that is a fair comparison. My feeling if I was in Kabam's shoes, is these items didn't actually cost us anything, it is not worth the backlash from the customers to go take them back. I think many are missing the point that these items aren't real. They hold no actual value. Each one handed out does not cost the company more in production, materials, shipping or labor cost. Kabam made a programming error, it happens, they ask the playing community to deal with it as they work on fixes, I don't think it is fair minded to then say that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their own errors.

These items do have a real value. Both to the player base that has already spent lots of money to purchase or earn the items that other players are currently getting for free due to a glitch and also to kabam in lost revenue as players getting this stuff for free would be unlikely to purchase any deals they may offer in the near future

unknown

This content has been removed.

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

At least that is a fair comparison. My feeling if I was in Kabam's shoes, is these items didn't actually cost us anything, it is not worth the backlash from the customers to go take them back. I think many are missing the point that these items aren't real. They hold no actual value. Each one handed out does not cost the company more in production, materials, shipping or labor cost. Kabam made a programming error, it happens, they ask the playing community to deal with it as they work on fixes, I don't think it is fair minded to then say that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their own errors.

These items do have a real value. Both to the player base that has already spent lots of money to purchase or earn the items that other players are currently getting for free due to a glitch and also to kabam in lost revenue as players getting this stuff for free would be unlikely to purchase any deals they may offer in the near future

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

Spartacus29

HoidCosmere wrote: »

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

So nothing digital has any value? By your own example movies and music aren't real items.

TheOneAndOnly

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

So nothing digital has any value? By your own example movies and music aren't real items.

Perhaps a better word would be tangible versus intangible.

HoidCosmere

Dropfaith wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

At least that is a fair comparison. My feeling if I was in Kabam's shoes, is these items didn't actually cost us anything, it is not worth the backlash from the customers to go take them back. I think many are missing the point that these items aren't real. They hold no actual value. Each one handed out does not cost the company more in production, materials, shipping or labor cost. Kabam made a programming error, it happens, they ask the playing community to deal with it as they work on fixes, I don't think it is fair minded to then say that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their own errors.

These items do have a real value. Both to the player base that has already spent lots of money to purchase or earn the items that other players are currently getting for free due to a glitch and also to kabam in lost revenue as players getting this stuff for free would be unlikely to purchase any deals they may offer in the near future

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

They aren't real items and yes they can be removed by a keystroke. And they should.

Well it would be a poor business decision on the company's part. But they probably will remove them, I have not found them to be a particularly adept at customer care and service.

LocoMotives

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

So nothing digital has any value? By your own example movies and music aren't real items.

Your TOS you've cited state the in-game items have no value and are the property of Kabam. Even if we spent, we aren't entitled to those items if Kabam chooses to take them away or bans us.

Spartacus29

And what difference would that semantic change make? It is no more tangible whether it's in game items or a movie. None of it is "real".

If you think that's ridiculous that's the point because they all do have actual value.

TheOneAndOnly

Spartacus29 wrote: »

And what difference would that semantic change make? It is no more tangible whether it's in game items or a movie. None of it is "real".

If you think that's ridiculous that's the point because they all do have actual value.

They may both have value but there are different rights and laws as it relates to both. Just pointing it out. Now feel free to go on with your ranting...sorry to interrupt.

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

So nothing digital has any value? By your own example movies and music aren't real items.

Can you take the 1000 5* shards to a pawn shop and get anything for them? Can you resell them even to another player in the playing community? Can you use them in trade to obtain other items outside the game? They hold no value, they cost money, but retain none of the investment.

HoidCosmere

Dropfaith wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Dropfaith wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

At least that is a fair comparison. My feeling if I was in Kabam's shoes, is these items didn't actually cost us anything, it is not worth the backlash from the customers to go take them back. I think many are missing the point that these items aren't real. They hold no actual value. Each one handed out does not cost the company more in production, materials, shipping or labor cost. Kabam made a programming error, it happens, they ask the playing community to deal with it as they work on fixes, I don't think it is fair minded to then say that they don't have to deal with the consequences of their own errors.

These items do have a real value. Both to the player base that has already spent lots of money to purchase or earn the items that other players are currently getting for free due to a glitch and also to kabam in lost revenue as players getting this stuff for free would be unlikely to purchase any deals they may offer in the near future

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

They aren't real items and yes they can be removed by a keystroke. And they should.

Well it would be a poor business decision on the company's part. But they probably will remove them, I have not found them to be a particularly adept at customer care and service.

Letting players exploit and keep rewards is a far worse decision a minority got these on the grand scale of things.
And by your own logic at worst the players are out nothing as the items hold zero value

Fair point, I disagree.

Spartacus29

TheOneAndOnly wrote: »

They may both have value

I know. Thank you for making my point and adding nothing else to the conversation.

MasterMind

You guys realize how hard it is to get 5 stars shards meanwhile a minority of ppl were exploiting in the amounts equivalent to LOL rewards, so everyone that spent tons of moeny to beat it just got taken advantage by the hundreds that exploited a Cheat and that's suppose to be okay, that's a huge head start in obtaining s 6 star before everyone else isn't that wrong and technically just broke the game? It's not like they let everyone know and everyone had the chance to exploit it. So I think all the players rerunning and getting rewards over and over should be stripped of them personally. It's an unfair advantage and last time I checked that's equivalent to running a HACK or MOD regardless obviously if you saw you was getting rewards over n over YOU KNEW.

The_Savage_Ancient

There are some players who are still able to exploit it and have opened featured as well...

Spartacus29

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Can you take the 1000 5* shards to a pawn shop and get anything for them? Can you resell them even to another player in the playing community? Can you use them in trade to obtain other items outside the game? They hold no value, they cost money, but retain none of the investment.

Seriously? So you're agreeing again that digital items of any kind that can't be brought to a pawnshop have no value and only tangible items do.

I don't even know what to tell you if that's what you think. Good luck in life I guess?

Spartacus29

Dropfaith wrote: »

Now I get it you don't understand what value means
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something..

Value doesn't always equate money.

That said you say zero value so I'm not seeing why they should let people keep these worthless things

Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity

MasterMind

The_Savage_Ancient wrote: »

There are some players who are still able to exploit it and have opened featured as well...

Like literally I'm watching these dudes do heroic over and over

HoidCosmere

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Can you take the 1000 5* shards to a pawn shop and get anything for them? Can you resell them even to another player in the playing community? Can you use them in trade to obtain other items outside the game? They hold no value, they cost money, but retain none of the investment.

Seriously? So you're agreeing again that digital items of any kind that can't be brought to a pawnshop have no value and only tangible items do.

I don't even know what to tell you if that's what you think. Good luck in life I guess?

No, digital items that can not be resold hold no value. A cup of coffee has value, does it hold its value after you drink it? Can you resell it once your body has finished using it? Would you say that cup of coffee held any value after it was consumed? These items cost money, they have a value in obtaining, they hold no value once obtained. The only value they hold to the company that produced them is what someone is willing to give them for it. They cannot reuse or resell the raw materials of an unsold item. Can the company inventory their digital items and account for them in an asset ledger? The item does not exist until it is sold, it loses all value once it is obtained. It holds no value.

HoidCosmere

Dropfaith wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

Spartacus29 wrote: »

HoidCosmere wrote: »

They don't have real value. They aren't real items and can be removed from existence with a keystroke, they can be reproduced infinite times without cost to the manufacturer. Just because something costs money to obtain does not mean it holds any value. The revenue lost is minuscule and offset somewhat because many of the players that got them wouldn't have spent money or units to get the same items but did probably use money or units to get energy refills to take advantage of the glitch.

So nothing digital has any value? By your own example movies and music aren't real items.

Can you take the 1000 5* shards to a pawn shop and get anything for them? Can you resell them even to another player in the playing community? Can you use them in trade to obtain other items outside the game? They hold no value, they cost money, but retain none of the investment.

Now I get it you don't understand what value means
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something..

Value doesn't always equate money.

That said you say zero value so I'm not seeing why they should let people keep these worthless things

I say, why not let them keep worthless things? Makes them happy, costs nothing. Trust me, I understand what value means.

HoidCosmere

Dropfaith wrote: »

I still don't understand why you are fighting so hard to let people keep items you say have no value tho..

Because, in my opinion, it is the wisest choice for the company to make. I don't really think there is a right choice here as any they choose have some problems. And I am enjoying the debate, some have made solid points.