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Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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  • Options
    rwhackrwhack Posts: 1,051 ★★★
    zeezee57 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Champion balancing and rebalancing doesn't focus on making Champs viable at the End-Game level alone. There's an entire game to consider.

    Its downright laughable if you actually think that. I could run through non endgame content with literally any champ at a decent rarity and rank. Any decent player can run through act 4 exploration or master EQ with whoever they want, the same cant be said for endgame content. That's where specific abilities and counters are necessary and in the end what the game is "tuned" around. I explored most of master EQ with R1 and R2 5* champs, Kabam isn't nerfing a champ because someone is exploring act 4 with them. If Shulk heavy setup had no value in act 6 but could bulldoze Maestro in act 4 it would barely have been a blip on the radar and would still be the same as it always had.

    Please, in your opinion, explain why in detail Ronin is fine as is but Cull isn't and how you evaluate Ronins place in the game against say, Human Torch as he currently is? Also I'd love to hear you thoughts on Namor and Sunspot and if you think they should be reworked or are fine as they are and if you think a rework in necessary what specifically needs to be buffed or nerfed.
    I think people need to have the champ in question and actually spend money on crystals to have an opinion about it....but seems like I'm wrong LOL
  • Options
    borntohulaborntohula Posts: 447 ★★★
    IronMaiden66 said:

    Japam12345 said:

    It's really interesting to me how 99.99% of all comments in this thread is complaining about Cull whereas only 0.01% is about Maw (WHO IS GETTING A BUFF BY THE WAY).

    Is anyone going to say something good about Maw getting a Buff?

    Or are we all Negative Nancies around here?

    You guys do realize there are probably as many Maw owners, and they're gonna be ECSTATIC about Maw getting a buff right?

    That's cause no one feels cheated by the maw change. If the Cull change was more of a rework like increasing his block prof then people wouldn't be so upset. They're just reducing the only useful part about him. That's great that maw is getting a buff cause he was a trash champion and was pretty much useless but the cull change is an issue. We are addressing the issue. Why celebrate when people feel cheated out of their money. No one spent literally thousands of dollars trying to get him. Some people spent an insane amount of money to get him. No one did that for Maw. At least groundedwisdom has arguments that he's using. All you're doing is trying to go against everyone and stir the pot.
    For a long time now, they have been releasing two types of champs, defenders and attackers. Sure, there are hybrid champs, and there are even a few who actually shine at both. But generally speaking, there are defensive characters and champions that are better on attack.

    Ebony was already a pretty decent defender, it’s not a coincidence he is a map 6 mini boss. By upping his damage, which seems to be the gist of the upcoming rework, they basically make him more annoying as a defender. And slightly more viable as an attacking Champion. I rather doubt he will be an exceptionally good attacker, even after the buff, but we'll see.

    So, for me personally, I am not happy with him being buffed at all. Because the way I see it, he will become even more annoying as a defender. I’m not particularly looking forward to map six post buff. From a commercial perspective, it makes perfect sense though. Those that complain he is not very valuable on attack will be silenced, and more potions will probably be used when fighting him on defense. It's that simple.

  • Options
    Justin2524Justin2524 Posts: 1,626 ★★★★
    borntohula said:

    IronMaiden66 said:

    Japam12345 said:

    It's really interesting to me how 99.99% of all comments in this thread is complaining about Cull whereas only 0.01% is about Maw (WHO IS GETTING A BUFF BY THE WAY).

    Is anyone going to say something good about Maw getting a Buff?

    Or are we all Negative Nancies around here?

    You guys do realize there are probably as many Maw owners, and they're gonna be ECSTATIC about Maw getting a buff right?

    That's cause no one feels cheated by the maw change. If the Cull change was more of a rework like increasing his block prof then people wouldn't be so upset. They're just reducing the only useful part about him. That's great that maw is getting a buff cause he was a trash champion and was pretty much useless but the cull change is an issue. We are addressing the issue. Why celebrate when people feel cheated out of their money. No one spent literally thousands of dollars trying to get him. Some people spent an insane amount of money to get him. No one did that for Maw. At least groundedwisdom has arguments that he's using. All you're doing is trying to go against everyone and stir the pot.
    For a long time now, they have been releasing two types of champs, defenders and attackers. Sure, there are hybrid champs, and there are even a few who actually shine at both. But generally speaking, there are defensive characters and champions that are better on attack.

    Ebony was already a pretty decent defender, it’s not a coincidence he is a map 6 mini boss. By upping his damage, which seems to be the gist of the upcoming rework, they basically make him more annoying as a defender. And slightly more viable as an attacking Champion. I rather doubt he will be an exceptionally good attacker, even after the buff, but we'll see.

    So, for me personally, I am not happy with him being buffed at all. Because the way I see it, he will become even more annoying as a defender. I’m not particularly looking forward to map six post buff. From a commercial perspective, it makes perfect sense though. Those that complain he is not very valuable on attack will be silenced, and more potions will probably be used when fighting him on defense. It's that simple.

    Um, you must have missed the Memo where Kabam had said:

    "We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense."

    So the emphasis will be on OFFENSE.
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,141 ★★★★★
    _ASDF_ said:

    Japam12345 said:

    _ASDF_ said:

    Japam12345 said:

    Honestly I think you guys are really jumping the gun here.

    Here's my honest take on the changes:

    1. Ronin will remain the same - Cool.

    2. Maw will get a buff - Cool.

    3. Cull may get a small reduction BUT WILL STILL REMAIN TOP DAMAGE DEALER (let's say -5%) - Cool.

    Again, let's say Cull's damage is reduced by 5% - that's hardly going to mess with the game or Cull. If you're complaining about that you're overreacting.

    In summary I think we're really blowing this all out of proportion.

    Bro...
    If they were going to just adjust his damage by 5%, they wouldn’t even announce it. Changing SheHulk was huge and they didn’t announce it. Smh.
    So when the She-hulk's change wasn't announce you guys were up in arms, and now that they've announced it you again complain and go off the rails saying it'll be this and that.

    You're gonna complain no matter what.
    No one would complain if kabam could properly roll out a champ once a month. Or if they could follow their own rules. Or communicate properly. Your not understanding the cause and effect here.
    This.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.
  • Options
    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,731 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.

    Yes it is so you are saying every champion has changed in some sort of way. That's just flat out wrong they never touched psylocke since her release they never touched gambit, they never touched beast they're so many champs they haven't touched because they were tested properly which should be the case with every champ
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.

    Yes it is so you are saying every champion has changed in some sort of way. That's just flat out wrong they never touched psylocke since her release they never touched gambit, they never touched beast they're so many champs they haven't touched because they were tested properly which should be the case with every champ
    Technically just about every Champ has been changed in one form or another, for example 12.0. However, what I was saying was there is no such thing as "finished" in a way that guarantees they'll never change. It's always a possibility.
  • Options
    ZuroZuro Posts: 2,731 ★★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.

    Yes it is so you are saying every champion has changed in some sort of way. That's just flat out wrong they never touched psylocke since her release they never touched gambit, they never touched beast they're so many champs they haven't touched because they were tested properly which should be the case with every champ
    Technically just about every Champ has been changed in one form or another, for example 12.0. However, what I was saying was there is no such thing as "finished" in a way that guarantees they'll never change. It's always a possibility.
    It's only a possibility if they have a reason to be changed
  • Options
    IronMaiden66IronMaiden66 Posts: 40 ★
    Japam12345 said:

    borntohula said:

    IronMaiden66 said:

    Japam12345 said:

    It's really interesting to me how 99.99% of all comments in this thread is complaining about Cull whereas only 0.01% is about Maw (WHO IS GETTING A BUFF BY THE WAY).

    Is anyone going to say something good about Maw getting a Buff?

    Or are we all Negative Nancies around here?

    You guys do realize there are probably as many Maw owners, and they're gonna be ECSTATIC about Maw getting a buff right?

    That's cause no one feels cheated by the maw change. If the Cull change was more of a rework like increasing his block prof then people wouldn't be so upset. They're just reducing the only useful part about him. That's great that maw is getting a buff cause he was a trash champion and was pretty much useless but the cull change is an issue. We are addressing the issue. Why celebrate when people feel cheated out of their money. No one spent literally thousands of dollars trying to get him. Some people spent an insane amount of money to get him. No one did that for Maw. At least groundedwisdom has arguments that he's using. All you're doing is trying to go against everyone and stir the pot.
    For a long time now, they have been releasing two types of champs, defenders and attackers. Sure, there are hybrid champs, and there are even a few who actually shine at both. But generally speaking, there are defensive characters and champions that are better on attack.

    Ebony was already a pretty decent defender, it’s not a coincidence he is a map 6 mini boss. By upping his damage, which seems to be the gist of the upcoming rework, they basically make him more annoying as a defender. And slightly more viable as an attacking Champion. I rather doubt he will be an exceptionally good attacker, even after the buff, but we'll see.

    So, for me personally, I am not happy with him being buffed at all. Because the way I see it, he will become even more annoying as a defender. I’m not particularly looking forward to map six post buff. From a commercial perspective, it makes perfect sense though. Those that complain he is not very valuable on attack will be silenced, and more potions will probably be used when fighting him on defense. It's that simple.

    Um, you must have missed the Memo where Kabam had said:

    "We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense."

    So the emphasis will be on OFFENSE.
    Any offensive buff also increases his abilities on defense. If they do a major offensive buff then he'll be even bette on defense then throw on top a small defensive buff too. Not that hard to understanding that making a character better offensively makes them better defensively too.
  • Options
    IronMaiden66IronMaiden66 Posts: 40 ★
    borntohula said:

    IronMaiden66 said:

    Japam12345 said:

    It's really interesting to me how 99.99% of all comments in this thread is complaining about Cull whereas only 0.01% is about Maw (WHO IS GETTING A BUFF BY THE WAY).

    Is anyone going to say something good about Maw getting a Buff?

    Or are we all Negative Nancies around here?

    You guys do realize there are probably as many Maw owners, and they're gonna be ECSTATIC about Maw getting a buff right?

    That's cause no one feels cheated by the maw change. If the Cull change was more of a rework like increasing his block prof then people wouldn't be so upset. They're just reducing the only useful part about him. That's great that maw is getting a buff cause he was a trash champion and was pretty much useless but the cull change is an issue. We are addressing the issue. Why celebrate when people feel cheated out of their money. No one spent literally thousands of dollars trying to get him. Some people spent an insane amount of money to get him. No one did that for Maw. At least groundedwisdom has arguments that he's using. All you're doing is trying to go against everyone and stir the pot.
    For a long time now, they have been releasing two types of champs, defenders and attackers. Sure, there are hybrid champs, and there are even a few who actually shine at both. But generally speaking, there are defensive characters and champions that are better on attack.

    Ebony was already a pretty decent defender, it’s not a coincidence he is a map 6 mini boss. By upping his damage, which seems to be the gist of the upcoming rework, they basically make him more annoying as a defender. And slightly more viable as an attacking Champion. I rather doubt he will be an exceptionally good attacker, even after the buff, but we'll see.

    So, for me personally, I am not happy with him being buffed at all. Because the way I see it, he will become even more annoying as a defender. I’m not particularly looking forward to map six post buff. From a commercial perspective, it makes perfect sense though. Those that complain he is not very valuable on attack will be silenced, and more potions will probably be used when fighting him on defense. It's that simple.

    That makes perfect sense fro a strategic stand point. There are a lot of players however that want him to be viable on offense too so they can at least use the champion they got. For me I love to play the new champions I get because I love to explore their abilities but it sucks when they basically do nothing. He's a good defender but entertainment wise he's not the best and that's why most people wanted the buff. He'll definitely be more annoying to fight and I'm not looking forward to it either lol.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.

    Yes it is so you are saying every champion has changed in some sort of way. That's just flat out wrong they never touched psylocke since her release they never touched gambit, they never touched beast they're so many champs they haven't touched because they were tested properly which should be the case with every champ
    Technically just about every Champ has been changed in one form or another, for example 12.0. However, what I was saying was there is no such thing as "finished" in a way that guarantees they'll never change. It's always a possibility.
    It's only a possibility if they have a reason to be changed
    You mean if they release a perfect product nothing will ever have to be changed? That's not how it works. No amount of testing will prevent all problems from occurring. I guarantee there will always be issues that come up. It's just a reality of the game. Aside from fixing problems, any game of this nature will always grow and evolve. With that comes the need to periodically reevaluate how things are balanced within the current state, so there's the possibility of revisions as the game continues. This isn't a homeostatic system that stays the same forever. It grows over time, and with that growth, things change.
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,248 ★★★★★
    _ASDF_ said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Zuro said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Define properly. If you mean bug-free, that's impossible to guarantee. The bugs that come up are obviously not planned. If you mean releasing them in a form that will never be changed, that's just not possible with a game like this.

    Yes it is so you are saying every champion has changed in some sort of way. That's just flat out wrong they never touched psylocke since her release they never touched gambit, they never touched beast they're so many champs they haven't touched because they were tested properly which should be the case with every champ
    Technically just about every Champ has been changed in one form or another, for example 12.0. However, what I was saying was there is no such thing as "finished" in a way that guarantees they'll never change. It's always a possibility.
    It's only a possibility if they have a reason to be changed
    You mean if they release a perfect product nothing will ever have to be changed? That's not how it works. No amount of testing will prevent all problems from occurring. I guarantee there will always be issues that come up. It's just a reality of the game. Aside from fixing problems, any game of this nature will always grow and evolve. With that comes the need to periodically reevaluate how things are balanced within the current state, so there's the possibility of revisions as the game continues. This isn't a homeostatic system that stays the same forever. It grows over time, and with that growth, things change.
    They could’ve done much... much better with the champs the last few months, as they have in the past. HT, Annih, Cull and Maw all need work done. That’s a pretty rough roll out of their champs recently. It seems like something had changed internally as previously it wasn’t like this. 🤷‍♂️ So yes, it could be different and better.
    I suspect they are aware of that. Which is why they chose to start revisiting Champs on a regular basis. I can't really argue with it being better. There's always room for improvement. It's probably also worth pointing out that the two worst ones out of those are Cull and Maw. Cull had a number of issues, Maw was very much on the lower end. Annihilus isn't bad perse, just not overly-distinguishable. HT is pretty good. I believe their comment was to focus on giving him some use in Incinerate Immune scenarios.
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    Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★
    Has this post thread been acknowledged by Kabam after the initial 1-2 comments. It;s already 50 pages long so maybe i missed the response or have they just ignored their player base again?
    I hope the communication gets better this time!
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    Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★
    Nojokejaym said:

    IKON said:



    How did you guys not see this coming?

    I’ve been saying cull was gonna get tuned down lol
    Please send your predictions on all champion launches. You are officially our Kabam Prophet now! ;)
  • Options
    Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★
    Rektor said:

    Maybe guys will learn to stop releasing dumb videos on YouTube showing champs do things that everyone knows were never intended

    Oh hey everyone watch rol wolvy die from a single sp3. What’s the worst that can happen?

    Oh hey everyone watch a 3* solo a fight in labyrinth that was specifically designed to not allow any 3* champ to survive for even 10 seconds. What’s the worst that can happen?

    Hope that $68 in YouTube ad money was worth it

    Sir I agree and disagree with you at the same time. Agreed because these videos makes kabam nervous and they feel the champion is too OP.
    Disagree because: These videos are all skill based and require a lot of skill, time, tries. Also they videos prove you who is a better YouTuber, better skilled player and obviously the fun of a 3 star she hulk destroying labyrinth is a treat to watch. It's the CCP that is at fault. Skilled players will always find something that they can enhance the gameplay for a particular champ like corvus cheese in aq (I hope it is not a exploit)
This discussion has been closed.