@Kabam Miike right now there is cap on the amount of Loyalty players can earn week to week. This is going to have the effect of forcing alliances to choose high performance in AW vs running map 7. And encourage the 3rd party resource economy.
Does Kabam have plans to increase the amount of sources that players can get resources from?
Kind of a big deal.
At 7x5, the loyalty costs are 50k loyalty per summoner. This is 500 units worth of loyalty. Just doing the 4* arenas milestones grants 400 units per week.
If you do those and get 100 units from quests, bc crystals, and the other arenas, which you'll probably have to do in order to get the gold and battleships, then you can save all loyalty from wars and helping for war crystals.
It will screw over f2p players though, since they won't be able to donate units in exchange for loyalty without the conversion badge. Maybe give that to everyone?
@Kabam Miike when you posted the image with the savings costs, if it is down to zero, the savings percentage is how much is saved, but if it isn't, then it's how much is left. Could you correct that, please?
This doesn't matter. People WILL run 7x5, and people WILL get their donations in. These high costs are encouraging the "black market" donations that already plague every high tier alliance I know of except 4l0ki. If they want us to farm for our own donations instead of paying bots to donate for us, then at least make the donations achievable
Enforcing TOS violations for 3rd-party services like arena bots and then implementing game design that encourages 3rd-party services like black market/fraudulent in-game resources for AQ donations seems off. Hopefully Kabam has an announcement in the works about plans to increase loyalty resources.
im not expecting anything but with the removal of battlechip cost to map 4,5,6, will the players, not the alliance due to players built up the alliance treasury, get something back possibly from battlechips or gold with this reduction cost?
Is the loyalty cost a typo by any chance? It's not just a small increase from what alliances who are currently running 6x5 are paying, it's nearly double.
It is steep, but it is not a typo! Map 7 is meant to be High Risk, High Reward and a pretty big investment to run!
It is steep, but it is not a typo! Map 7 is meant to be High Risk, High Reward and a pretty big investment to run!
That's the thing; it's not a big investment to alliances that buy "donation drops" from 3rd party players. If these "black market donations" aren't addressed then there will be no legitimate alliances placing highly in AQ anymore
I think that’s the point. Just as Map 6 wasn’t intended to run everyday (at least upon its release ) the same is with Map 7. Unless you want to spend.
This doesn't matter. People WILL run 7x5, and people WILL get their donations in. These high costs are encouraging the "black market" donations that already plague every high tier alliance I know of except 4l0ki. If they want us to farm for our own donations instead of paying bots to donate for us, then at least make the donations achievable
This seems very backwards. So just because there are 3rd party black market options, means the players should do it? I guess playing by the rules isn’t cool anymore. I guess people should engage in illegal activities as long as it’s something they really want. Can’t people just play the game without spending a fortune through illegal means in order to do it? Man games have become way more complicated from when Pong was invented.
It is steep, but it is not a typo! Map 7 is meant to be High Risk, High Reward and a pretty big investment to run!
That's the thing; it's not a big investment to alliances that buy "donation drops" from 3rd party players. If these "black market donations" aren't addressed then there will be no legitimate alliances placing highly in AQ anymore
We are working to address this behaviour. I don't have any details right now, and can't share much on what we're doing anyways, but we haven't forgotten about that.
Assume AW rewards revamp including seasons coming soon for you basically just killed off one of the major draw points to it (t5b)? Guess it still gives shards and yes added on top of AQ but seems things will now shift more back to AQ focus when we started to see a mix of AW focused and AQ focused alliances
It is steep, but it is not a typo! Map 7 is meant to be High Risk, High Reward and a pretty big investment to run!
That's the thing; it's not a big investment to alliances that buy "donation drops" from 3rd party players. If these "black market donations" aren't addressed then there will be no legitimate alliances placing highly in AQ anymore
We are working to address this behaviour. I don't have any details right now, and can't share much on what we're doing anyways, but we haven't forgotten about that.
That still doesn't address how f2p players would be able to pay for that. 50k loyalty would require basically all loyalty from wars and helping. The only real option for that would be to offer a double donation of a different resource and let a p2p player with the conversion badge make the loyalty donation in your place.
Any chance we could just get that sent to everyone?
This seems very backwards. So just because there are 3rd party black market options, means the players should do it? I guess playing by the rules isn’t cool anymore. I guess people should engage in illegal activities as long as it’s something they really want. Can’t people just play the game without spending a fortune through illegal means in order to do it? Man games have become way more complicated from when Pong was invented.
Whether they SHOULD do it or not doesn't matter; if they CAN do it then they will. My alliance doesn't do it, but like I was saying, pretty much every other one does. Making these costs unattainable without spending is just encouraging this behavior more and more
We are working to address this behaviour. I don't have any details right now, and can't share much on what we're doing anyways, but we haven't forgotten about that.
im not expecting anything but with the removal of battlechip cost to map 4,5,6, will the players, not the alliance due to players built up the alliance treasury, get something back possibly from battlechips or gold with this reduction cost?
We briefly mention it in the post, but Map 6 will now reward up to 7,000 Gold per Battlegroup completion. Map 5 will still award Battlechips but since it no longer costs any, you'll end up in a net positive amount of Battlechips by running Map 5
I think that’s the point. Just as Map 6 wasn’t intended to run everyday (at least upon its release ) the same is with Map 7. Unless you want to spend.
This doesn't matter. People WILL run 7x5, and people WILL get their donations in. These high costs are encouraging the "black market" donations that already plague every high tier alliance I know of except 4l0ki. If they want us to farm for our own donations instead of paying bots to donate for us, then at least make the donations achievable
Whether it's something people want to talk about or not... This is an important point. The rewards will make people do what they need to do to run the maps. That includes donations and most likely a heavy dose of piloting.
It'd be pretty awesome if someone maybe checked logins over those first few weeks hahaha
I'm sure this will be a no, but is there any plans to refund chips? We donate ahead for aq always, and the treasury is full of chips for map 5, those are going to waste now that it's free. And we have no time to run map 6 unfortunately.
Is the loyalty cost a typo by any chance? It's not just a small increase from what alliances who are currently running 6x5 are paying, it's nearly double.
Current 6x5 is 34,000 and 7x5 is 50,000. That’s about 50% though. Dunno if ya’ll dip from extras or account for the 8day cycle and 7day week of donations to Reduce the cost to 28,000.
We are working to address this behaviour. I don't have any details right now, and can't share much on what we're doing anyways, but we haven't forgotten about that.
Thanks Miike, stoked Kabam is working on cleaning up AQ like they've done with AW Seasons
Before addressing donation issue maybe aq piloting should be a bigger concern.
Also donate with units for those complaining about loyalty, smhhh....
500 units for loyalty
1600 units for BC
and 6600 units for gold.
So around 9k units, or 300$ per week for donations, which honestly isn't that bad all things considered.
Y'all need to stop complaining and play legit.
Is the loyalty cost a typo by any chance? It's not just a small increase from what alliances who are currently running 6x5 are paying, it's nearly double.
Current 6x5 is 34,000 and 7x5 is 50,000. That’s about 50% though. Dunno if ya’ll dip from extras or account for the 8day cycle and 7day week of donations to Reduce the cost to 28,000.
Yeah I was doing the math in my head instead of looking at the charts which is why I said nearly double. But a 50% increase is still too much for a resource that isn't farmable. This is just leading to less fun and more burnout.
Is the loyalty cost a typo by any chance? It's not just a small increase from what alliances who are currently running 6x5 are paying, it's nearly double.
Current 6x5 is 34,000 and 7x5 is 50,000. That’s about 50% though. Dunno if ya’ll dip from extras or account for the 8day cycle and 7day week of donations to Reduce the cost to 28,000.
Yeah I was doing the math in my head instead of looking at the charts which is why I said nearly double. But a 50% increase is still too much for a resource that isn't farmable. This is just leading to less fun and more burnout.
Somewhat yeah.
But here is something else to think about when comparing to 6x5. *Assuming the numbers and sheets i have are correct.
77666 is less donos.
77766 is +5k loyalty, less BCs.
77776 is +10k loyalty, less BCs, +100k gold.
And 77777 is +16k loyalty, same BCs and +166k gold.
Looking at it from there the increased costs are mostly in running 7 on the final 2 days which would be going harder on map 7 than almost all allies did when map 6 was introduced.
*And to add onto that you can tweak the costs by running only some BGs map 7 for the extra 2 days to still maintain standing without significantly increasing costs. I have faith 4loki will figure out how to maintain thier relative postion without needing to put forth much more effort other than the upfront math and planning; which is part of why ya’ll are so successful BTW.
Seems that Map 7 will force alliances to define their identity as either AQ focused or AW focused. I don't really see how an alliance can compete in AW seasons and run Map 7.
Having played this game since beta, back when Captain Marvel had her hair showing & not the mask, I still don't understand why we can't get more than just gold on the return for completion of map 6/7. Yes, I understand that receiving gold is a new option for a map that didn't return anything at all, but in all honesty, we should get a return back on everything, more so with loyalty since that's the one resource that's NOT as easily attainable as the others, with the exception of "hitting the help, winning AW matches, a few minimal rewards from events, & the AW win/loss crystals" but even then, it's not like we get much from any of those sources either. The cost per player in Map 6 will now be:
292K Gold
30K BCs
21K Loyalty
Receiving "up to" 7K gold back per day is a joke, if I receive the full 7K (since it's "up to") comes out to 35K in total, & quite honestly it's insulting, especially if players have to put up 292K for all 5 days, they should get back at minimum 73K gold which is 25%. With the amount of time we all put into your game, in spite of all your mishaps throughout the years since launching this game, I don't think it's too much to ask for you guys to reconsider the payout structure of resources used when completing the map. We should get something back for all resources used, ESPECIALLY LOYALTY! The same can be said for Map 7 too. It doesn't matter what the rewards are for these maps, it doesn't hurt your company to not bleed us dry of resources by giving a small % back, it's just good business. This will probably fall on deaf ears, but whatever, I've said my piece.
Is the loyalty cost a typo by any chance? It's not just a small increase from what alliances who are currently running 6x5 are paying, it's nearly double.
Current 6x5 is 34,000 and 7x5 is 50,000. That’s about 50% though. Dunno if ya’ll dip from extras or account for the 8day cycle and 7day week of donations to Reduce the cost to 28,000.
Yeah I was doing the math in my head instead of looking at the charts which is why I said nearly double. But a 50% increase is still too much for a resource that isn't farmable. This is just leading to less fun and more burnout.
Somewhat yeah.
But here is something else to think about when comparing to 6x5. *Assuming the numbers and sheets i have are correct.
77666 is less donos.
77766 is +5k loyalty, less BCs.
77776 is +10k loyalty, less BCs, +100k gold.
And 77777 is +16k loyalty, same BCs and +166k gold.
Looking at it from there the increased costs are mostly in running 7 on the final 2 days which would be going harder on map 7 than almost all allies did when map 6 was introduced.
I understand what you are saying. I'm sure Kabam thought the same thing with these changes. But at the end of the day, it's way more efficient to farm up resources on an alt to cover the costs and just run 77777 than sacrifice map 7 days. Running all map 6 has been fine without making an alt, but my loyalty is at a stand still. It doesn't go up, doesn't go down, and that's with occasionally skipping out on the 3 minute boosts.
At the end of the day it will all be possible to do, and do legitimately, but is it healthy for the game? Not in my opinion.
@Kabam Miike
map7 defenders are going to be visible or hidden?
are nodes, sig, defenders going to be the same as we had on the beta server?
The players that have seen the beta (me included to be honest) have a huge advantage over the other players.
not just with "feeling" the difficulty but also try to rank different champs to see who is going to work better.
i think everyone deserve to be a part of such beta or at least every summoner with the minimum requirement (rank, roster, map6 experience etc..)
Comments
At 7x5, the loyalty costs are 50k loyalty per summoner. This is 500 units worth of loyalty. Just doing the 4* arenas milestones grants 400 units per week.
If you do those and get 100 units from quests, bc crystals, and the other arenas, which you'll probably have to do in order to get the gold and battleships, then you can save all loyalty from wars and helping for war crystals.
It will screw over f2p players though, since they won't be able to donate units in exchange for loyalty without the conversion badge. Maybe give that to everyone?
Good catch, that was all me and not Miike. We'll update the original post as well, but here's the correct values:
Map 7 Crystals contain everything that can be found in a Map 6 Crystal, but also have a chance at Tier 5 Basic Catalyst Fragments.
Enforcing TOS violations for 3rd-party services like arena bots and then implementing game design that encourages 3rd-party services like black market/fraudulent in-game resources for AQ donations seems off. Hopefully Kabam has an announcement in the works about plans to increase loyalty resources.
It is steep, but it is not a typo! Map 7 is meant to be High Risk, High Reward and a pretty big investment to run!
That's the thing; it's not a big investment to alliances that buy "donation drops" from 3rd party players. If these "black market donations" aren't addressed then there will be no legitimate alliances placing highly in AQ anymore
This seems very backwards. So just because there are 3rd party black market options, means the players should do it? I guess playing by the rules isn’t cool anymore. I guess people should engage in illegal activities as long as it’s something they really want. Can’t people just play the game without spending a fortune through illegal means in order to do it? Man games have become way more complicated from when Pong was invented.
We are working to address this behaviour. I don't have any details right now, and can't share much on what we're doing anyways, but we haven't forgotten about that.
That still doesn't address how f2p players would be able to pay for that. 50k loyalty would require basically all loyalty from wars and helping. The only real option for that would be to offer a double donation of a different resource and let a p2p player with the conversion badge make the loyalty donation in your place.
Any chance we could just get that sent to everyone?
Whether they SHOULD do it or not doesn't matter; if they CAN do it then they will. My alliance doesn't do it, but like I was saying, pretty much every other one does. Making these costs unattainable without spending is just encouraging this behavior more and more
Thank you, glad to hear it
We briefly mention it in the post, but Map 6 will now reward up to 7,000 Gold per Battlegroup completion. Map 5 will still award Battlechips but since it no longer costs any, you'll end up in a net positive amount of Battlechips by running Map 5
Whether it's something people want to talk about or not... This is an important point. The rewards will make people do what they need to do to run the maps. That includes donations and most likely a heavy dose of piloting.
It'd be pretty awesome if someone maybe checked logins over those first few weeks hahaha
Thanks Miike, stoked Kabam is working on cleaning up AQ like they've done with AW Seasons
Also donate with units for those complaining about loyalty, smhhh....
500 units for loyalty
1600 units for BC
and 6600 units for gold.
So around 9k units, or 300$ per week for donations, which honestly isn't that bad all things considered.
Y'all need to stop complaining and play legit.
Yeah I was doing the math in my head instead of looking at the charts which is why I said nearly double. But a 50% increase is still too much for a resource that isn't farmable. This is just leading to less fun and more burnout.
But here is something else to think about when comparing to 6x5. *Assuming the numbers and sheets i have are correct.
77666 is less donos.
77766 is +5k loyalty, less BCs.
77776 is +10k loyalty, less BCs, +100k gold.
And 77777 is +16k loyalty, same BCs and +166k gold.
Looking at it from there the increased costs are mostly in running 7 on the final 2 days which would be going harder on map 7 than almost all allies did when map 6 was introduced.
*And to add onto that you can tweak the costs by running only some BGs map 7 for the extra 2 days to still maintain standing without significantly increasing costs. I have faith 4loki will figure out how to maintain thier relative postion without needing to put forth much more effort other than the upfront math and planning; which is part of why ya’ll are so successful BTW.
Thanks!
Receiving "up to" 7K gold back per day is a joke, if I receive the full 7K (since it's "up to") comes out to 35K in total, & quite honestly it's insulting, especially if players have to put up 292K for all 5 days, they should get back at minimum 73K gold which is 25%. With the amount of time we all put into your game, in spite of all your mishaps throughout the years since launching this game, I don't think it's too much to ask for you guys to reconsider the payout structure of resources used when completing the map. We should get something back for all resources used, ESPECIALLY LOYALTY! The same can be said for Map 7 too. It doesn't matter what the rewards are for these maps, it doesn't hurt your company to not bleed us dry of resources by giving a small % back, it's just good business. This will probably fall on deaf ears, but whatever, I've said my piece.
I understand what you are saying. I'm sure Kabam thought the same thing with these changes. But at the end of the day, it's way more efficient to farm up resources on an alt to cover the costs and just run 77777 than sacrifice map 7 days. Running all map 6 has been fine without making an alt, but my loyalty is at a stand still. It doesn't go up, doesn't go down, and that's with occasionally skipping out on the 3 minute boosts.
At the end of the day it will all be possible to do, and do legitimately, but is it healthy for the game? Not in my opinion.
map7 defenders are going to be visible or hidden?
are nodes, sig, defenders going to be the same as we had on the beta server?
The players that have seen the beta (me included to be honest) have a huge advantage over the other players.
not just with "feeling" the difficulty but also try to rank different champs to see who is going to work better.
i think everyone deserve to be a part of such beta or at least every summoner with the minimum requirement (rank, roster, map6 experience etc..)