Punishing Entire Alliance:- is that fair gameplay?

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  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,956 Guardian

    This.
    Kabam don't, actually, give a toss about the fairness of the game until they ban repeat offenders permanently. If someone is going to cheat, what deterrent is a temporary ban? The vast majority of ethically broken players are just going to try the next cheat mod that comes along, and reap the benefits for a time until it's discovered. Rinse, repeat.
    Meanwhile, the big spenders that do keep this game going for all of us have to be asking "WTF Kabam?"
    You will find that there is quite a large overlap between the two. Just looking at the amount of alliances that got dropped for us to get back into P2 this season you're looking at close to 1/5 alliances having at least one confirmed cheater in the ranks. P2+ is where a huge amount of the whales reside.

    This sort of thing is what kills online games though and does need to be seriously addressed. At one point RS was roughly 60% bots and to get that number down the owners had to invest some serious money in coders to upgrade their detection systems and having active monitoring in game. With a mobile game it's probably a bit more challenging but it's something that needs serious consideration.
    ----
    If there was a permanent title that could be given to players that would help with recruitment but ultimately I'd like to think that some players would change after being burnt the first time.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,466 ★★★★★
    qartweli said:

    i dont agree because u have no idea how the difference is
    aw planning in T1 is 4 hour work per war

    in gold 1 people have constant assigned paths and done
    I'm not telling that they are the same lol. But I'm telling that cheating has been done all across the board. Not only in Masters or in Plat 1. Even Gold alliances are affected by it. He said that if you 'want to stay at the Top'. Gold alliances aren't Top. Yet they're also affected by this and may not have known if they had a member cheating. So while the action taken currently is unfortunate and needed, there should be some method in the future that doesn't penalize everyone in the alliance. Or the person cheating gets flagged earlier so that the alliance knows they're getting screwed in the final rankings.
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  • ThēMandalorianThēMandalorian Member Posts: 368 ★★★★
    To answer your question:

    Yes. It's fair to punish the entire team. You got Wins you didn't deserve which includes Shards and War Victory Crystals.

    Those resources are not being taken back which you should be LUCKY Kabam isn't doing that - it would probably be a nightmare to track anyway.

    Lick your wounds, replace the bad apples, move on and find ways suggested here by many as ways to check on people you newly recruit to ensure they are not shady. All you can do for now.
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  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,902 ★★★★★
    This got me kind of divided:

    On one hand it isn't fair towards other alliances. They lost their rewards because of your members cheating, and you got up using partially unfair methods (because the cheaters pushed alliance up)

    On the other hand this is "just" a game, not a full time job, so it must be hard for leaders to manage even placement and battlegroups, and watching&checking 150+ fights each war is time consuming (even for more people), and it feels like you just can't expect 30 players to record every fight of every war and then analyze it.

    So this is kind of a moral struggle, but the probably best solution is really to drag you all down equally. It is surely the simplest one
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Member Posts: 1,217 ★★★★★


    *unless it's the first time offense
    Nah even if it is their first time. A cheater is a cheater.

    First offense: flag the account for a month
    Second offense: flag account for six months
    Third offense: perm ban

    Or even better

    First offense: flag account for 3 months
    Second offense: perm ban
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,336 ★★★★★
    Let’s put it this way.

    If you do not penalize the entire alliance for one person (or a group) modding, then there will be no one to stop someone from buying a separate phone, download a mod on that phone, run 9 mod accounts in the same alliance to take out 9 paths + all minis + bosses, and getting undeserved rewards for his/her main account.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,466 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Let’s put it this way.

    If you do not penalize the entire alliance for one person (or a group) modding, then there will be no one to stop someone from buying a separate phone, download a mod on that phone, run 9 mod accounts in the same alliance to take out 9 paths + all minis + bosses, and getting undeserved rewards for his/her main account.

    Flag the accounts mid season. Let the officers have a chance to kick those members out. Get a deduction in points mid season and then they have to start gaining points again to reach where they were. Or if not mid season, atleast when they find out. End of season deduction is messy if the alliance has no idea.
  • Simp44Simp44 Member Posts: 35
    Niceeee said:

    You just made my day!

    Niceeee said:

    You just made my day!

    Cmon dawg is you are going to make an alt atleast change your pfp
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,336 ★★★★★
    edited October 2020

    I doubt it is that easy. I'm a leader, and i dont think i can, neither can my officers afford to watch every war's worth of footage from 30 members. You may have a lot of time on your hands ( which is why your 330k arena wins is so "easy"), but asking folks to watch hundreds of minutes of footage every war is unreasonable.
    Kabam can do this banwave mid season and help out.

    PS I wasnt affected by this, but had to call out stupid suggestions when I see it.
    I’m leading 2 alliances, 1 in P2, 1 in P4. I don’t do that, neither do my officers.

    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.

    Also, my 330k arena fights were culminated across 4-5 years (at the very least). No issue grinding while watching television at night.
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Member Posts: 809 ★★★
    Scmex21 said:

    Dear Game Team,
    If certain individuals are cheating please ban them it a fair game. But don’t punish the entire Alliance!
    We as leaders and officers have absolutely no tool to identify who is cheating and who is not. So cannot control this aspect of Alliance management.
    After Playing skillfully the entire team is stripped of two full brackets in AW. Platinum-1 to Plat2. Just not fair.
    Thanks for your consideration!
    GSB

    Being an officer of an alliance I can totally understand that
    Its not possible for us to tell weather the guy we recruit is a cheat or not
    It's fine if u ban the cheaters account rather than punishing whole alliance cause it's unintentional
  • Hilbert_unbeatable2Hilbert_unbeatable2 Member Posts: 809 ★★★

    at the very least, kick them. It’s kinda easy to tell how they’re cheating.
    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★

    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
    most upper tier alliances require recordings be sent to the bg officers, that would tell you.
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  • TreininTreinin Member Posts: 215 ★★★
    At least they did ban some players this time.

    I remember a while back (like 10-15 seasons ago) my alliance received a point deduction but nobody was banned, so we had no way to track down what had caused it.

    At least this way you can tell who it was, and you know the 28 you have left were playing cleanly. Replace the two bad seeds and move on.
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,956 Guardian

    Ohk tell me how do u identify the cheater who is hiding in ur Alliance without ur notice
    Top tier AW is cutthroat. A single death/DC can screw your war. You’ll find players record for personal insurance - look I won the fight it’s not my fault that the server screwed me. We also like to flex, I record my fights and if I do a sweet takedown of a fight I often post it in chat, as do most of our alliance. This is why I know are clean. We had a guy who got a lot better across a season and we just watched his gameplay back across a few wars and in Act 6 and you could see a steady improvement and we felt that was reasonable. If he refused to share footage we’d have got rid to be safe.
  • Rohit_316Rohit_316 Member Posts: 3,426 ★★★★★
    Ok let's put it this way - What if you score no. 1 place in AW but know who the cheaters are in your ally ( in this case you're "PRETENDING" you don't know) . Will you inform Kabam about cheaters or keep the juicy rewards?

    Since you posted here i'd assume you're in a high prestige Platinum or Master ally and maybe an officer. You guys wanna keep your prestige high without compromising on rewards that comes from cheating.? Really? An officer can't be that blind that he has no clue what's going in in his ally( that coming from an officer himself).
  • pseudosanepseudosane Member, Guardian Posts: 4,094 Guardian
    xNig said:

    I’m leading 2 alliances, 1 in P2, 1 in P4. I don’t do that, neither do my officers.

    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.

    Also, my 330k arena fights were culminated across 4-5 years (at the very least). No issue grinding while watching television at night.
    Well tat does show you do have a lot of time on your hands, or you dont really" lead". I do the same, see fights once in a while.
    But your suggestion to watch recordings of fights every war, as have said a few others, is kind of stupid, when we see how much stuff has to be done in game, and other leader/officer responsibilities. It is a game, not work. Watching recordings is not a solution. You recruit based on their word, and recordings you can see, nothing more.
    My suggestion would be to do this banwave midseason so alliances can kick and re recruit. This ensures they know they do not have to burn as many items for a ranking they may not be able to possess due to docking.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,466 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    I just make sure I have a video of that guy’s play when recruiting him. And we will wanna see screenshots of hits etc in the fight end screen. It’s as simple as that. Also, if that person is dying too frequently in AQ or has diverse performances in different aspects of the game, it has to be a red flag.

    Once that red flag is raised, then ask for video footage of that guy’s play in war, no excuses.
    .
    People can cheat while being good at the game too. In order to get better AW rewards. AQ isn't too hard as such. It's repetitive motions that you get so used to that it's not too hard to get through without dying. So if none of the 'red flags' are raised and there is still a player who is using mods, how are officers supposed to identify?
  • danielmathdanielmath Member Posts: 4,107 ★★★★★
    In 4loki our leadership is very serious about cheating, to the point where we won’t let someone in if we have a doubt that they have piloted or anything. However, it’s not possible to always know what every member is doing, it’s just not. One player who got permabanned yesterday and got their alliance docked was with us like 7-8 months ago. Did he cheat while with us? I don’t know.
  • IKONIKON Member Posts: 1,360 ★★★★★
    For the first time I've experienced being part of a docked ally, and it sucks. However, I don't see any other options to make the contest fair for everyone.

    I do wish though we had some indication of what the violation was, and to a lesser extent, who. You don't even know how many members violated the TOS. We're essentially forced to make decisions without complete information.
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