Alliance War Season Rewards for Season 13 have now been distributed. Compensation for individual Wars will be sent later today (Nov 20). You can leave your alliance and still receive the individual Wars Compensation. We are also investigating an issue with Champions stuck in AQ. At the moment Days 1-4 of Honor Rewards have been paid out, Day 5 and full Rewards are still coming!

15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,488 ★★★★★
    edited October 2017
    The goal in a War is to try and 100%, yes. It's up to the Ally to gauge if they want to spend to do that or not. That's always been an option. Defender Rating is a metric. As such, it's going to have some effect on the outcome. It couldn't be any less significant than a tiebreaker. If the belief that what is needed to fix Wars is a revert, I'm afraid that goal may not come to pass.

    Have you lost a war by 15 points because they have a slightly higher defender rating then you do? What about when your defense vastly out does their defense in effectiveness; yielding you 30+ more kills?

    Defender rating can not be the metric at which wars are won and lost, that means that nobody has a chance at winning unless they spend units to run bigger boosts.

    Defender Rating is not the metric by which Wars are won and lost. It's the metric that tips the scale. The simple fact is, how many Defender Kills accumulate is irrelevant at this point because at the moment, they no longer count for anything. What does is Defender Rating. It's a high metric that accumulates minimal Points. You couldn't get much lower than 0.002 Points per PI, at least not without asking what the point is. Something has to count for something. It's clear they want it because it exists.
    People talk about spending as if it's something new. It's not. People have been spending and using stored Resources to complete Maps since the inception of War. What some fail to see is those Wars that were won by large numbers generated by Defender Kills had another side to that. There was a good possibility those Allies were using Resources to accumulate those KOs. Which means they were in effect being penalized for spending and dying themselves into a Loss. Penalizing spending is not only an unsound business practice, it's just plain wrong and unfair. Resources have always been used in War, at the discretion of the Allies choosing to do so.
    They've made changes to the Map that makes it difficult for some to complete. That means it's up to them to decide how much they want to invest into finishing it. That's not the same scenario as Defender Kills. Inevitably there will be Allies that have no issues completing, or choose to spend to do it. That's been happening all along. Which means in that event, something has to determine a winner. That has to be some metric. That is no longer Defender Kills. Not now, anyway.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 508
    I haven't seen anything that comes as close to measuring skill in war as defender kills. It's a very simple, basic concept of war. I kill the enemy without dying 7 times on 1 node, you kill mine after reviving 7 times, I win. There's no way to debate that, I have more skill, I should win. Sure, most of us will win some and lose some when we face a stronger and more skilled alliance, but at least it's a fair assessment of skill.

    Even if you make the nodes enigmatic like LoL, it still would be fair to measure skill based on how well or poor you did vs my performance on attack. The difficulty of war in 14.0 didn't stop skilled alliances (or spending alliances) from 100% the map. I don't think anything added will stop it now, so miike saying it should be a rare occurrence to get 100% is simply misguided and shows they really don't have a clue of how war was conducted previously.

    I do understand wanting to appease beginner level up to mid tier level players, but where is their future if this continues? They will eventually get to the top levels too after playing as much as some of us. They will be just as disgusted by losing to a lesser skilled alliance.
  • JaffacakedJaffacaked Posts: 1,416 ★★★★
    There needs to be a penalty for dying in aw cos I've just watched someone time out 6 times on 1 champs an not lose his champ, every time he came back with half of the health he had so am guessing he was just pausing before dying then force closing. This is total bs an can be done until a person has the perfect fight an it just cost a pot of 2 instead of expensive revives.

    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious @Kabam DK how are you going to address this, or is it ok cos there is absolutely no penalties for dying now.
  • nuggznuggz Posts: 124
    I have confirmed, all kabam will do is continue to raise the difficulty of the aw nodes in hopes that it will stop the 100% in all the bgs. Ofc we all know in top tiers that doesn't matter. Node difficulty would never stop a tier 1 alliance from 100% their bg. Even if it required multiple revives from every member. So those wars will still be decided by defender rating. They just don't seem to get it. Or rather they do but refuse to accept our input on the defender kills topic. You can bet on this for future changes, save this comment as you will see. "The only changes that we will continue to see are more node options such as act 5 node implements and continue of increased nodes thereof."
  • Why don’t you all understand that if they back defender’s kill points then they can’t earn those real money what all the richest fools are spending in the game?Sorry to say but that is true.I know that very well they will ignore my post but I don’t care and want to say “please Kabam stop robbing us like that “most of the richest are spending but they don’t know how hard is to earn those money what they are spending cause all the money coming from their dad’s.Thank you all and Good luck on the War.
  • Why we are talking in here against their system actually? At first we were crazy for strong defender’s and we wait,we tried,we earn or however we got them_then we started to working on dupe them and take them to rank 5/50 or 4/55 and then we started to earn sig stone for making them stronger.And now they are almost useless because of their diversity things. All those efforts and times are really wasted. But they don’t care about that cause Simply Kabam know how to cheat with us and how to rob our money. So stop talking with expectation and believe it or not but we are both team playing against Kabam in war. That means we are their enemies,from our discussion they are getting the idea to make it more expensive.Good bye all,I thought talking in here maybe be helpful but it’s not helpful for us.It’s for kabam.
  • IanMooneIanMoone Posts: 640 ★★
    Not only they ruined AW but also removed the boosts that were designed specifically for this AW map and cant wait to hear their excuse of a lie for this one.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,047 ★★★★★
    Aw is just an absolute gong show right now. Way to kill the most engaging aspect of you game Kabam!
  • linuxlinux Posts: 262
    I probably shouldn't post this because @Kabam Miike will just say it means the nodes need to be harder, but ... yay! more matches decided by defender rating! The new nodes are not hard enough to stop alliances from getting 100%. The only thing that decides whether we get 100% is if (1) we face easy defenders that don't require anyone to revive or (2) a handful of players decide to revive and push forward. Image evidence available above, and it happened to us on 2 of our last 3 wars.

    With a different map -- one with clearly optional and difficult paths, like the old one -- alliances might make a rational decision not to explore 100%, which provided some strategy. Given how this map is linked together, there's no such rational strategy.

    And in a PvP format, there's no way that make it so that some players won't get discouraged and give up before the war is over (lots of the changes seemed intended to prevent that, and not surprisingly if you strongly encourage players to get 100% and make it easier to do so ... lo-and-behold, both alliances will be able to clear the map much of the time).

    This is the fourth week after the release when you've been "gathering data". You didn't need the last week to be able to figure out what would happen at the top end (t1-t3... though I think the same is also true for some matches from the next batch of tiers as well, based on screenshot I saw from another alliance).

    And you still haven't provided transparency: what metrics will you use to determine success? Are you still just planning on tuning difficulty so that most alliances will not get 100% most of the time?

    In the far lower reaches, wars are mostly decided by exploration -- on a whim, I started running AW in t15 on a second account. I think it's good that clearing some of the map is easier, but calling it war when the only hard part is figuring out how to maximize how much of the map you explore with 6 players ... LOL (And our 4* r4 and r5 defenders haven't stopped anyone at minibosses or boss, any more than theirs have stopped us. The node buffs are pretty laughable, you just need one good player to kill the boss and the others can focus on exploring as much as possible.)
  • Carmel1Carmel1 Posts: 265
    @Kabam Miike
    How the new node, buffet, supposed to work together with the 100% heal buff?
    1. Is it means he will heal 10%?
    2. Is it 5% / 10% of unmodified health
    3. Is anyone tested it to make sure it’s working as intended
    4. Is anyone tested it with some champs to make sure it’s not unbeatable? (King Groot, Magik and few more)

    Thanks
  • Jakobitz wrote: »
    Kabam, please take a hard look at the new node 24 buffs. That is some serious bs right there.

    I'm by no means new to this game. I have completed up through 5.3 at 100%, I've made 1 run through on LOL, heck the Goldbloom challenge was a fun cakewalk for me, but I was absolutely owned by node 24 yesterday. Shut me down. Something seems off about that regen.

    Please, provide more skill based challenges, not clear cut resource draining challenges like node 24 in AW.


    Node 24 is absolutely OP. Had a 5/50 Cable there yesterday that we couldn't beat.
    You couldn't bleed him out because he would cause degen , and the regen from the node (not cable) was so OP that the 2 guys that took that path literally couldn't hurt him.
    Heal block from Vision wasn't enough to keep up with the massive amounts of regen that was happening. Guilly wouldn't be able to do it either because of Cables degen.


    ALSO...
    There is a couple of the new nodes that are ridiculous as well.
    Who thought it was a good idea to put in the node that you can only do damage with specials when there is a champ in the game that can't die from specials. BRILLIANT!
    Hopefully you have a champ with you that causes some sort of damage over time debuff.
  • I'm tired of all the bugs. It's only going to keep getting worse as they keep adding more and more content.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,047 ★★★★★
    Jakobitz wrote: »
    Kabam, please take a hard look at the new node 24 buffs. That is some serious bs right there.

    I'm by no means new to this game. I have completed up through 5.3 at 100%, I've made 1 run through on LOL, heck the Goldbloom challenge was a fun cakewalk for me, but I was absolutely owned by node 24 yesterday. Shut me down. Something seems off about that regen.

    Please, provide more skill based challenges, not clear cut resource draining challenges like node 24 in AW.

    Same. Something like 300% HP increase and 10% HP every 6 seconds? Garbage.
  • KML15KML15 Posts: 139
    Some suggestions.....

    1. Set a flat value for Defender rating per war tier. For example in tier 1, a defender rating above 1,000,000 would receive a certain flat value. So an alliance with a 1.2 million rating will receive the same amount of points as an alliance with a 1.4 million rating.

    2. COUNT DEFENDER KILLS!!!!! It kinda blows my mind on why defender kills are not granted any kind of points. I mean, this is "war" obviously.

    With these two components combined it will set the stage for a far more competitive match ups. It will bring the excitement back into wars where there will be upsets. Now that almost every alliance in T2-1 have their diversity rating together. The deciding factor has been alliance rating. This prohibits any smaller alliance in a match up to win in the event of both parties 100% a map. With a flat value of this and defender kills being granted points it will boil down to one of two things.

    1. Exploration and boss kills
    2. Defender kills
  • FAL7ENFAL7EN Posts: 297
    Viper1987 wrote: »
    Loss after loss after loss. 5 losses in a row due to this stupid new AW system. You claim you don't want to discourage people when they die from continuing on (which we all know is BS). Well, we are demoralized before war really even starts. We have no motivation and people are getting ready to quit because of this.
    Stop lying nobody’s going to quit, they’re addicted lol
  • DeeparviDeeparvi Posts: 82
    Carmel1 wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike
    How the new node, buffet, supposed to work together with the 100% heal buff?
    1. Is it means he will heal 10%? the opponent is healing 10% on Modified Health
    2. Is it 5% / 10% of unmodified health - No, it is on Modified Health
    3. Is anyone tested it to make sure it’s working as intended - yes, I tested in todays War in Tier 1 fought against 5* Cap Marvel Rank 4/55 and she was Regen 17k Health per tick bcoz of Buffet and 200% recovery
    4. Is anyone tested it with some champs to make sure it’s not unbeatable? (King Groot, Magik and few more) Yes, KG and Magik would be unbeatable bcoz of Recovery due to modified health......

    Thanks

    @Kabam Miike & @Kabam Doot & @Kabam Vydious , You guys should look into this as Node no. 24 Buffet is healing the opponent champion on Modified Health and not on base health.....
  • Just a quick question:

    We are playing AW on stage 5 this time and if we win this one, we gonna receive +28 for the victory. If we gonna lose, according to AW Status Screen we will get slacked by as much as 102 (!) AW Points???
    We have a AW rating of 1.385, the enemy has only 1.174. (Allyrating 6.5 vs. 6.7) What kind of matchmaking should that be?!?

    So far so good, but unfortunately in addition the nodes on the map are way to easy and mostly all challeging buffs are not where they should be... at least last AW on stage 5 was completely different concerning nodes, so no question both Alliances 100% the map this time.

    Great gameplan...

    Is it just us?
  • Kabam need new players,they want them.That’s why they are always careful about new players,like they can pull the great and new champs very easily/they are able to pull UC/kang from crystal. They can pull t4cc from map3 crystal.They don’t care about us cause we all know that how stupid they are and how they robbing us but the new players they don’t have any idea about Kabam.So,they are very happy to spend.lol
  • DonybDonyb Posts: 125
    Past 2 wars at the very beginning we now exchange our defender rating since this is the way wars are determined our alliance and many others refuse to waste money/ items on a game mode that involves little to no skill
  • NinjaWarrior99NinjaWarrior99 Posts: 301


    This is why we're bringing more difficulty back to Alliance Wars maps. The double 100% should not be a common thing. It's meant to be a rarity, and in that case is where Defender Diversity come in.

    we are still seeing 100% on both sides every war and defender diversity being the deciding factor. maybe try adding points for defender kills to the scoring system.


  • DonybDonyb Posts: 125
    we are still seeing 100% on both sides every war and defender diversity being the deciding factor. maybe try adding points for defender kills to the scoring system.

    Defender diversity isn’t the problem it’s defender rating

This discussion has been closed.