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Parry OP
Knoby
Posts: 61
I kinda feel like parry is op as it is. And not really dynamic from a spectator's standpoint
My brother let me know that when he watched over my shoulder.
I know, it's about playing yourself, but even then, a more dynamic, more difficult parry would enhance that as well.
So here's my take:
Make it so that parry just pushes the enemy back and prevents him from attacking for the same time he got stunned before. He can still dash and block, maybe his dexterity and stuff like that is lower. Chip damage through his block could be increased as well, as he's barely holding it together. His dash could be not as far and more like a stumble/roll back.
Now for the (parry) counter, I'd add the mechanic that if you parry and mirror the attack of your opponent on the right side of the screen at the same time you punch him once and hit him back like you would with a heavy attack, dealing similar damage
Parry should work neither on specials nor ranged attacks, just regular melee
Also a clash mechanic would be nice: If you and your enemy do the same attack and hit each other with it at the same time, you would clash. Now, in my mind it wouldn't slo mo or open up anything. Instead it would differentiate between clashing attack types.
If it's a light clash, you would just cross arms or legs or arms and legs for the frames of a regular attack (new animation) and both could attack instantly with no drawbacks
For a medium clash (swipe clash), it would push both characters back and give both parties the same drawbacks as they would if they were parried
Now that's not it. In an earlier thread, I already suggested adding a combo meter which would make comboing even more fun and rewarding and would be visualized by two vertical orange bars on the left side of the screen
Also, there are two orange buttons you can tap to use the combo meter either offensively or defensively.
The offensive one is on the upper left side of the screen right under your character's avi and the defensive one on the upper right side of the screen, right under your enemy's avi
On a sidenote, I'd change special meter to be three green bars no matter which special is active, just so it's cleaner from a design standpoint
So, to get to the meat of it, the combo meter consists of say 200 points you can fill up by doing all kinds of different stuff
Every hit in a combo over 5 fills it up by 10 combo points
Every hit in a combo over 15 fills it up by 20 points
Every hit in a combo over 50 fills it up by 50 points
Every hit in a combo over 100 fills it up by [ib100 points[/b], so you can use the first combo meter move every hit now aka God mode
Parrying fills it up by 10 combo points
A parry counter by 20
But the combo meter can also rapidly decrease if you lose the edge and control in a fight
For example, it can decrease if you simply don't fill it up for more than two seconds (apathy)- every additional second drains it by 10 points per second
Also, regular blocking (if you can't pull off a parry) drains it by 10 points per blocked medium hit, 5 for every blocked light hit, 20 for a blocked special hit
Getting hit can majorly screw your meter, as every unblocked light strike takes 20 combo points from you, every medium takes 50 from you and specials as well as guard breaks drain it completely
Clashes don't hurt or help it. Just watch out after a light clash to react quickly and don't get thrown off by the unusual clashing animation.
Now for the combo meter utility
You can use it in two ways defensively and in two ways offensively
With your first bar of 100 points you can do one of two things
d) instant counter: hold orange button (like green button for special 1) on the right side (defensive combo button) while tapping block at the time you would parry (the time frame is more generous). This breaks the guard of your enemy and prevents him from dashing and attacking for a very short 0.5 seconds (without the stun animation). So now you can tap, tap, swipe instantly for an open unblockable combo (maybe it just stuns your opponent for the same amount parry does right now and you can just take your time to do a combo if it's too hard to do animate more fluidly without causing bugs)
Also works on melee specials, not ranged ones tho
If you use this on ranged specials with two or more projectiles, it stops the special after the first projectile if you counter it- but no drawbacks or debuffs on enemy
o) combo ender: hold orange button on the left side (offensive combo button) at the same time you hit an enemy and let go after you've performed your character specific combo ender consisting of up to three strikes/shots
Depending on your character you have access to different types of combo enders
There are ranged (projectiles with a short one or two step range) combo enders for ranged characters, quick (two or even three punch) combo enders for fast martial artsy characters, but also effect laden combo enders (higher 50% chance of triggering a status effect change and/or debuff) for magic or telekinetic characters and finally hard hitting (single swipe) combo enders for bruisers like Hulk (it might be a smack to the ground which might have a small 20% chance of stunning your enemy)
Characters may or may not have two combo enders from which they can choose by doing the required input (ie Hulk could have combo ender+swipe for the ground smack & combo ender+tap, swipe for something else)
With your full meter of 200 points you can do more game changing stuff
d) combo breaker: tap orange button while being stuck in an enemy combo to break out of it and throw your opponent back (deals no damage to him) but stuns him for 2 seconds
o) combo chainer/finisher: again, hold the left side orange button while you hit your enemy (can be the first or last hit of a combo) and then, with most characters, swipe up while still holding down that orange button to perform a character specific combo finisher with chaining potential
Spider-Man would be an exception to the swipe up rule as you would swipe right and swipe towards yourself (back/left) on the right side of the screen (I would also put fastest possible guard break to that command without holding orange button while still maintaining the held down channeling of guard break) to perform this combo ender which triggers a move where Spidey kicks his opponent away from him and then pulls him towards him with a web string. Now you can chain an unblockable light strike started combo to that move and originally the other combo (some heavier combo chainers might stun your enemy, so you can even chain a medium based combo)
If all that is too hard to animate, make it so that you just tap orange button after a hit for an additional strike that stuns the enemy and thus enables you to get another free combo
Thanks for reading, feel free to leave feedback...
My brother let me know that when he watched over my shoulder.
I know, it's about playing yourself, but even then, a more dynamic, more difficult parry would enhance that as well.
So here's my take:
Make it so that parry just pushes the enemy back and prevents him from attacking for the same time he got stunned before. He can still dash and block, maybe his dexterity and stuff like that is lower. Chip damage through his block could be increased as well, as he's barely holding it together. His dash could be not as far and more like a stumble/roll back.
Now for the (parry) counter, I'd add the mechanic that if you parry and mirror the attack of your opponent on the right side of the screen at the same time you punch him once and hit him back like you would with a heavy attack, dealing similar damage
Parry should work neither on specials nor ranged attacks, just regular melee
Also a clash mechanic would be nice: If you and your enemy do the same attack and hit each other with it at the same time, you would clash. Now, in my mind it wouldn't slo mo or open up anything. Instead it would differentiate between clashing attack types.
If it's a light clash, you would just cross arms or legs or arms and legs for the frames of a regular attack (new animation) and both could attack instantly with no drawbacks
For a medium clash (swipe clash), it would push both characters back and give both parties the same drawbacks as they would if they were parried
Now that's not it. In an earlier thread, I already suggested adding a combo meter which would make comboing even more fun and rewarding and would be visualized by two vertical orange bars on the left side of the screen
Also, there are two orange buttons you can tap to use the combo meter either offensively or defensively.
The offensive one is on the upper left side of the screen right under your character's avi and the defensive one on the upper right side of the screen, right under your enemy's avi
On a sidenote, I'd change special meter to be three green bars no matter which special is active, just so it's cleaner from a design standpoint
So, to get to the meat of it, the combo meter consists of say 200 points you can fill up by doing all kinds of different stuff
Every hit in a combo over 5 fills it up by 10 combo points
Every hit in a combo over 15 fills it up by 20 points
Every hit in a combo over 50 fills it up by 50 points
Every hit in a combo over 100 fills it up by [ib100 points[/b], so you can use the first combo meter move every hit now aka God mode
Parrying fills it up by 10 combo points
A parry counter by 20
But the combo meter can also rapidly decrease if you lose the edge and control in a fight
For example, it can decrease if you simply don't fill it up for more than two seconds (apathy)- every additional second drains it by 10 points per second
Also, regular blocking (if you can't pull off a parry) drains it by 10 points per blocked medium hit, 5 for every blocked light hit, 20 for a blocked special hit
Getting hit can majorly screw your meter, as every unblocked light strike takes 20 combo points from you, every medium takes 50 from you and specials as well as guard breaks drain it completely
Clashes don't hurt or help it. Just watch out after a light clash to react quickly and don't get thrown off by the unusual clashing animation.
Now for the combo meter utility
You can use it in two ways defensively and in two ways offensively
With your first bar of 100 points you can do one of two things
d) instant counter: hold orange button (like green button for special 1) on the right side (defensive combo button) while tapping block at the time you would parry (the time frame is more generous). This breaks the guard of your enemy and prevents him from dashing and attacking for a very short 0.5 seconds (without the stun animation). So now you can tap, tap, swipe instantly for an open unblockable combo (maybe it just stuns your opponent for the same amount parry does right now and you can just take your time to do a combo if it's too hard to do animate more fluidly without causing bugs)
Also works on melee specials, not ranged ones tho
If you use this on ranged specials with two or more projectiles, it stops the special after the first projectile if you counter it- but no drawbacks or debuffs on enemy
o) combo ender: hold orange button on the left side (offensive combo button) at the same time you hit an enemy and let go after you've performed your character specific combo ender consisting of up to three strikes/shots
Depending on your character you have access to different types of combo enders
There are ranged (projectiles with a short one or two step range) combo enders for ranged characters, quick (two or even three punch) combo enders for fast martial artsy characters, but also effect laden combo enders (higher 50% chance of triggering a status effect change and/or debuff) for magic or telekinetic characters and finally hard hitting (single swipe) combo enders for bruisers like Hulk (it might be a smack to the ground which might have a small 20% chance of stunning your enemy)
Characters may or may not have two combo enders from which they can choose by doing the required input (ie Hulk could have combo ender+swipe for the ground smack & combo ender+tap, swipe for something else)
With your full meter of 200 points you can do more game changing stuff
d) combo breaker: tap orange button while being stuck in an enemy combo to break out of it and throw your opponent back (deals no damage to him) but stuns him for 2 seconds
o) combo chainer/finisher: again, hold the left side orange button while you hit your enemy (can be the first or last hit of a combo) and then, with most characters, swipe up while still holding down that orange button to perform a character specific combo finisher with chaining potential
Spider-Man would be an exception to the swipe up rule as you would swipe right and swipe towards yourself (back/left) on the right side of the screen (I would also put fastest possible guard break to that command without holding orange button while still maintaining the held down channeling of guard break) to perform this combo ender which triggers a move where Spidey kicks his opponent away from him and then pulls him towards him with a web string. Now you can chain an unblockable light strike started combo to that move and originally the other combo (some heavier combo chainers might stun your enemy, so you can even chain a medium based combo)
If all that is too hard to animate, make it so that you just tap orange button after a hit for an additional strike that stuns the enemy and thus enables you to get another free combo
Thanks for reading, feel free to leave feedback...
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
All that is fun to think about, but this does create a fundamental change in the way many would play the game and in the masteries.
I do think a change like this would make fights much quicker paced and allow more scenarios in the fight to react quickly to.
Not with Captain America.
Wanna just melt down his Shield and make him caps??? ITS CAPTAIN AMERICAS SHIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I probably communicated some of it wrong and triggered a lot of people it seems lol
But you get it. I was just trying to challenge the status quo
So naturally, like in real life, people can't stand it
Even the thought of it
So they just try to flag, I get it
But I don't **** like people who flag opinions. Like, that makes me speak them out even more.
People making jokes is fine and it's funny. That Spongebob meme actually made me chuckle even tho I've seen it so many times before
But flagging is borderline censorship and that's triggering ME
I don't even care who did that, but know you gotta change the way you approach opposition or you're not gonna get far in life
That's just my two cents to that
But now back to topic and your post
I can see what you mean and I'm not even sure how to change parry myself. I just know I want to make it faster and more dynamic. As you said, it looks stupid if you stun someone by parrying. Even for comic book mobile game standards
Your idea of a short maybe 0.3 sec stun where you actually have to react fast and it doesn't look that stupid interests me
It shouldn't be called stun and shouldn't have that stupid head spinning animation- maybe don't even have it be a status effect, just an animation where he falls back a little and you can counter attack with no block if you're fast enough
While pulling off a parry right now still takes some skill, it's pretty damn easy. And that 1 second stun makes it even easier to follow up
I could parry, eat a sandwich and still be back in time for that free follow up combo
All of that led me to say parry is op
I meant to say parry looks stupid and is too simplified/slow
Also, Cap would still take no damage in my take on parry, so I don't get the outrage for him
I like Cap a lot btw
I just thought about the big picture for a second
People who already put 3 in parry for what it was (I did too btw) are to consider, but I think if we tweaked it to be more like your take it would still be as good, just a little more skill involved.
And I would be fine with that. No need for parry counter as a full combo is stronger anyway lol
Also, if need be you can give back the mastery points every player put into parry and people who still like it can put it right back. And whoever feels like he can invest them into something better now, can do just that. Simple as that.
And yeah, sadly a combo meter seems to be way too much change for the community. Although I'm convinced many new or burned out/bored players would appreciate it
Maybe you can implement it slowly, so people don't freak out.
I just get the feeling this game needs something new. More people are leaving and especially level 60 players need some incentives to keep playing. Instead of just waiting for new characters, I think adding more fun, character specific stuff and skill to the actual gameplay would help with that big time. Cause then you would just hop into those arena matches to improve and have fun as opposed to just going in with the obligation to get a new character. I think it would help majorly with long term plans and longevity
Also some arcade fighting game fans might swing by if it was more challenging from a gameplay standpoint, not just the strategy
Maybe have them auto counter every attempted parry?
It's funny when you're signed into a forum and don't wanna read and write about game related stuff
If you wanna read less than 140 characters stick to twitter
Some of us like to read and share opinions
Some of us might be interested in game design
So who are you to fight against that on a forum dedicated to the freaking comic book mobile game in question? Exactly. You're a joke, my boy, a bad one at that
Thanks for reminding me I have less fun **** to do, smartass
Now it's all resolved tho and I'm a lot happier. So it should be fine
Still will speak my mind and say what I don't like but it will be in a different more open way. And I try to keep it shorter and on point. Even tho I'm not good at that
Hope some more positive feedback comes in soon
But it's not written very concisely, so I don't even expect most people to stick around
If I do stuff like this in the future, it will be even better, I swear
You can still get a free combo if you're fast and skilled. So it's not a nerf. Same thing, just harder to pull off. Raising the skill floor while making the game faster paced and more appealing to console fighter
I think the title OP lead you to rush out this answer. And that's on me as I did that to get people in here. Should've known that word triggers people. Pardon me
My biggest concern was the stupid stun animation triggered by a parry. Just doesn't make any sense to me. I know it's a game but it just takes so much of the fighting flow
Just curious, b/c I can see the perspective that parry is very powerful in the beginning/middle part of the game. Less so later on...
I'm not that far yet, so you have a point.
But still. Don't you think the stun animation in the very least looks out of place and takes away some momentum? It's nice for a little breather, especially as long as bugs and performance issues prevail. But from a long term perspective it would be nice to spice the gameplay up a bit and make it more appealing to console fighters who are used to an even faster more reaction heavy combat.
I have no issue with the effect itself (making the enemy unable to block, move and attack), just the animation and calling it stun.
Didn't know it runs that deep. Sounds very nice- every millisecond, really? Can't wait to get there and maybe even rely on parry someday. Thanks for taking the time. I think I just have to get over the animation. Maybe it's like a parry nerve strike lol
Dunno about you guys, but i would go crazy if i saw the analyzer parrying entire supers from Punisher 2099 like this.
Excuse me, not every one is skilled enough to get a counter in, in 0.3 secs, if they implement this then mcoc is done, so don't even think about it.. And you say this isn't a nerf.....