15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

Jac094

Pure ****. Now you can win a war just by placing various defenders, also if they are not real defenders. Pure ****.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

Markjv81 wrote: »

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

Well, the difference is the Ally is not going up against your Attackers.

Markjv81

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

Well, the difference is the Ally is not going up against your Attackers.

Thanks Einstein, still posting pointless **** after all this time.

Those attackers make beating the defence easier though yeah? Even a peanut like you should be able to work that out. Technical the ally is going against your attackers, you put your defenders to stop the attackers.

Piviot

INTEGRAL wrote: »

Why am I still in jail? It was supposed to expire in September 9th

You have to go in game and go to forums from the game for it to refresh, at least that's what I had to do

GroundedWisdom

Markjv81 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

Well, the difference is the Ally is not going up against your Attackers.

Thanks Einstein, still posting pointless **** after all this time.

Those attackers make beating the defence easier though yeah? Even a peanut like you should be able to work that out. Technical the ally is going against your attackers, you put your defenders to stop the attackers.

Normally I don't address people who speak to me that way. I'll dog that and address the subject.
The problem that arose was not from people using the same Attackers. It was from BGs full of the same Champs. Attackers have nothing to do with the issue. People can use whoever they want for Attack and it doesn't make a difference to the Map. The Ally isn't fighting your Attackers. The whole point of Diversity is to encourage people to use a variety of Champs to fill the Map. Attackers have never been a problem.

Jeremy13

Please keep the diversity based on Battlegroups and NOT entire alliance.
If you make it entire alliance, the result of any war will be determined before it even begins. An alliance who have more unique champs like Thanos or Kang will ALWAYS win against those who don't have them.Imagine being in a matchup and you see your opponent have a Kang or Thanos --- will you even try? I know your aim is to make unique champs like Thanos and Kang more sought after in gifting events driving people to spend more money to get them but please strike a balance and think of the community and the game here!

Markjv81

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

Well, the difference is the Ally is not going up against your Attackers.

Thanks Einstein, still posting pointless **** after all this time.

Those attackers make beating the defence easier though yeah? Even a peanut like you should be able to work that out. Technical the ally is going against your attackers, you put your defenders to stop the attackers.

Normally I don't address people who speak to me that way. I'll dog that and address the subject.
The problem that arose was not from people using the same Attackers. It was from BGs full of the same Champs. Attackers have nothing to do with the issue. People can use whoever they want for Attack and it doesn't make a difference to the Map. The Ally isn't fighting your Attackers. The whole point of Diversity is to encourage people to use a variety of Champs to fill the Map. Attackers have never been a problem.

Drax... is that you?

Jeremy13

Please suspend Alliance Wars until the FINAL SCORING POINTS are decided and set. Everyone is wondering right now whether the change in defender diversity changing to alliance-wide will be active next AW or not. Please suspend AW until it is sorted and proper announcements are made.

unknown

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gahrling

Dr_ARCHer wrote: »

Wanted: Any player with Thanos.

P.S. Players with Kang or Ultron Classic need not apply (unless it is to an alliance where no one has either).

Quoting this for truth.

/thread

nuggz

The intentions and meanings behind everyone here speaking were taken completely wrong. The whole point of us showing and telling kabam the flaws in the new aw scheme was not to fix the new aw to make it work. It was to down right destroy the idea!

What you need to realize is what the majority is truly saying! Aw with this new diversity system and water down nodes is simply junk. We have nothing to look forward to when we play wars now. Win or lose it supposed to be an adrenaline rush, a challenge, a sense of player skill. With this new system that has been taken away. Not enjoyable in the least bit anymore, just hope we get rewards now instead of actually trying for them.

The new system is in fact junk, regardless of any good/bad intentions that might have been inclined. That's the point, intentions don't matter, make aw great again! You'll always have ppl that disagree with something, but not on this scale. This is pure Garbage

vikky89

Markjv81 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Markjv81 wrote: »

Maybe you should introduce attacker diversity, why is it ok to have attack teams full of voodoo, Gwenpool, AA, tech spidey and any of the other top 10-15 attackers but it's not ok to have defences full of magik, dorm, Hyperion, NC etc etc?

Diversity across an entire alliance is madness, instantly gives the maybe 20-30 alliances that have Thanos an advantage over everyone else.

Well, the difference is the Ally is not going up against your Attackers.

Thanks Einstein, still posting pointless **** after all this time.

Those attackers make beating the defence easier though yeah? Even a peanut like you should be able to work that out. Technical the ally is going against your attackers, you put your defenders to stop the attackers.

Normally I don't address people who speak to me that way. I'll dog that and address the subject.
The problem that arose was not from people using the same Attackers. It was from BGs full of the same Champs. Attackers have nothing to do with the issue. People can use whoever they want for Attack and it doesn't make a difference to the Map. The Ally isn't fighting your Attackers. The whole point of Diversity is to encourage people to use a variety of Champs to fill the Map. Attackers have never been a problem.

Drax... is that you?

Guys lets ignore this "NOWisdom". he just wants be here and argue against everything said. His ignorance and hypocrisy can be clearly seen in his statements "People can use whoever they want for Attack and it doesn't make a difference to the Map". So to be clearly he can use whoever he wants in attack but defense has to be filled with useless champs. Bring IP Ant-Man LC to attack instead of AA DV SL and tell me again that it doesnt make any difference.

Palanthrax

After this, the game deserves to die TBH. I'm going to recommend to my alliance that we just don't bother with AW anymore - we'll focus on AQ. Netmarble are behind these changes, I read the recently linked article, their greed is destroying what's left of the game. After 12.0 it's only going to go further and further downhill.

General_Vis

Has there been any explanation of what the 0.002 PI score includes? Is it just base PI like prestige, or does it take other factors into account like masteries or synergies?

EgeC

KingCrooks wrote: »

....By the whole alliance, you're just asking us to spend $$ and find new champs.

That's the entire aim under "diversity" cover. They realize people are using the same "older" champs for defense and they know there'll be another revolt if they nerf those champs. Sooo, there you have diversity..

Also, they make attack easy to invalidate the difference between attack champs. Next you'll see attacker diversity like some mindless guy offered here and then you will have to spend tons of money on new "diverse" champs.

Mcord11758

I tend to believe the decision to go towards diversity is a measure related to the 6* announcement. 6* champs coming has left 4* champs to eventually be meaningless. Many have said why even bother running arena or I won't wast resources ranking 4* champs anymore. Well, enter diversity, now you must grind for champs, now you must rank champs you didn't want to. This scoring system artificially puts reliance back to 4* champs if you want to win wars.

SubTypical

Whatever happened to the "measure twice, cut once" mantra you guys were so fond of? Shut this **** down until you actually fix it rather than this half-assed bandaid approach. You guys area a joke.

DJSergy

Way to go kabam, you just killed AW, the most entertaining mode in this game. Now instead of being a competition between two alliances to see who is the best, more skilled and who has the best defenders ranked up, now we are competing to see who has more diverse defenders? Come on....

The only thing that needed to be addressed in previous AW system that was OP was Mystic Dispersion and how it interacted with dexterity. That is the only thing that kept Magik and other top mystic defenders almost without counter. Fix that and every defender has a decent counter. Instead you guys decided to reinvent the wheel and to be honest its boring and demotivating.

Please listen to our feedback. Thanks

Vdh2008

We can all see this new "war" for what it is... the second biggest nerf in MCOC history.

People have spent hundreds and thousands of dollars acquiring the best champs and ranking those champs for war defense. Now those champs are not as viable because Kabam has decided they want more $$$ spent on people getting NEW defenders. "Unique" defenders.

The community can see through your ****.

Recent changes have been very discouraging. I find myself pulling out my phone to play MCOC and then thinking, "why bother" and deciding to do something else. I used to be excited to play this game. Right now, that excitement is gone.

unknown

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Mothiecat

Congratulations Kabam. You have turned war into accounting. Instead planning who is good in game and how to place defenders teams are busting out spreadsheets and adding up points.

Feels more like doing taxes than playing a game.

War now has become:
1. Make a spreadsheet of all our alliances champs. Spend your time making sure that you organize your team to ensure that you get max diversity.
2. Fight easy fights because people need to put trash champs in game. So any decent alliance will score 100% with some coordination.
3. Wait and see if your team has higher PI that the other. Since everyone gets 100% and soon every team will have perfect diversity.

Winner = higher ranked alliance

Ranger1914

Dear kabam

You guys have been on a let's change everything kick Since 12.0 and it getting Ridiculous now! This is a expensive long term strategy game. It takes considerable time and money months/years to put a good team together. You have Basically turned this in to a game of "I win" with a four year old who changes the rules every hand so he always wins. In order for a game to work it needs stable unchanging rules. This latest change is so Ridiculous that alliances are actually better off not placing a defense at all. Even after you "fix that" with yet another rule change. now alliance leaders will have to try to learn your new rules teach/ Organize 30 members in three different bg to make sure no one is doubling up on defenders (150 different defenders for max points. Are there even that many different champs?) Then figure out the best placement for all of them again (If it even matters any more honesty can't tell whether it matters where you put them any more just that they are all different). We all now have to restructure are whole defense (everyone currently has the same 20 or so defenders) and as I said it takes months/years to build a team so if you are keeping these changes you are going "have to" issue rank down tickets again ( you will be sued if you don't not a threat just a statement of fact) as by changing the rules you have make the standard defense champs useless and Essentially created a brand new game that Literally no one asked for or wanted. now we all have to learn how to play again as it is now. Imagine for example your sitting in a casino playing hearts for $500 and and suddenly the dealer Announces they swiching to spades in the middle of the hand. In conclusion and I think I can speak for all summoners on this one!!!! Please stop changing the "rules of the game" You want to add new harder content great but you Can't change the rules or you Fundamentally change the game you sold upgrades for and that Is the definition of fraud

vikky89

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

vikky89 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It's always been about who you place. That's the point. Diversity gives Points for using different Champs. The old system meant overpowering the Opponent into certain death because we had similar War Rating, but a huge gap between Ally Ratings and Rosters. It's not about skill for the Ally that is twice, or 3 times, the size and strength of the Opponent. The losing Ally has few choices.
1. Try and give up.
2. Try and KO into a Loss.
3. Try for Exploration, and inevitably go for number 2.

That's not skill. That's overpowering the enemy before they even get to Attack.

Well thats how wars work. When you win a war, your war rating goes up and eventually u will get matched up with a ally twice your rating. You cant keep winning all the wars unless you are in the top ally ,that's how matchmaking is designed. Granted it doesnt work all the time, they can still fine tune it.

What I'm saying is that is one of the issues the system is intended to address. Not to mention the fact that there is a monopoly on Tiers because certain overpowered Matches keep popping up allowing some Allies to peck off others comfortably. There are a number of issues that have been looked at in making the changes. Some things may need to be rethought, but the need is still real nonetheless. There was little to no movement for much of anyone for a while. Same Champs, same Wars, same Allies in the same Tiers.

Overpowered matches keep popping up coz of your increase in war rating. Tiers are divided based on you war rating. We used to be in tier 4-6 when we are 6mil ally a month ago. We are now 8.5 mil ally with war rating around ~1800. We oscillate btw teir2-3. What I am saying you cant expect to be in top tier if your ally is not progressing in terms of skill and roster.

Spadejunkie

Kabam Mike, You said this...
The amount of items that any user can use remains the same, so every Alliance Member can still only Revive/Heal 15 times. This hasn't changed. Additionally, 5 Minibosses doesn't mean that any one person will be taking on more than 1.

The goal with the removal of Defender kills wasn't to increase the use of Potions or Revives, but to relieve the feeling of defeat that comes with taking one shot at a defender, losing, and feeling that you're now helping the other Alliance, so you stop playing, even though you have 2 perfectly good attackers still there.

Nobody stops playing after dying or losing to a defender because the player has to clear their path to usually free up another memeber of their team. However, by taking away defender kills point, along with the new scoring for 50k per attacker kills, you have effectively turn Alliance War to Roster battle. We all know that the team with the highest rating will typically have the best roster. So with everything being equal, Boss kill = 60k, Exploration = 90k, defender placed = 7,500, Attacker kills = 7,500. Your tie breakers then comes to defender ratings and defender diversity. This is great if the teams that are facing each other are at equal strength but since the alliance matching is random and rarely are the teams are at equal strength this gives the higher rated alliance a significant advantage with little or no way for the lower rated alliance can counter it. The difference maker and what makes Alliance War fun was knowing that a lower rated alliance can still win by limiting their DKs, especially if the higher rated alliance are just a bunch of guys with little of no skills. There has to be something in favor of the underdog that is outside the game that gives them a chance. You guys put favorites and underdogs in the game by your +/- you display when ppl match. You guys like to mention, the spirit of the game, what about the underdogs. What chance are you giving them when your alliance match sets them up to fail.

I believe your issue may be that you don't have another slots to include Defender Kills as part of the point systems. Please create and add defender kills with 100poits per DKs and keep all the other scoring the same.

If you don't, you are now creating an atmosphere that is going to further encourage Alliance swapping.

gkelly26

After this horrible horrible decision to destroy aw I really am starting to wonder why bother playing again. There's zero fun in the game anymore. War was the best thing about the game and its dead

MEKA5

So basically Kabam took away defenders kills points, reduced attackers kills points in AW...well is it still a war or an Alliance Parade? Or better...a Biodiversity Showcase (BS) ???

andrade5184

so now with defender diversity my md is worthless now. i have to bring all different champs which means no magik or juggy cause someone else in my group will bring them. i want rank down tickets and unit reimbursement for what i dump into md level 4. until we get that at the very least i suggest we do another spending freeze since thats the only thing that gets through to kabam. or bring back defender kills and dont make war rely on diversity

Sha59

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey All,

Thank you for all your feedback on the first week of Alliance Wars. We've written an update on what you can expect when you start Matchmaking again tomorrow here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/127553/#Comment_127553

Mike,

can you confirm what will actually be fixed in this current round of AW please?

Will it be the system that you initially posted about, Alliance wide diversity, with you not getting any points for repeated champions.

Or will it be the current system we had from last AW set that was Battle group based.

As you can imagine there is a massive difference, in the way alliances go and it would be nice to know what has and has not been fixed for the current round of Alliance Wars..

to Everyone else, there where constant posts on this forum about how MD is bugged, its unfair, it gives some advantages over others, so they provided a fix for it, weather you agree with it or not, it will fix full MD teams being placed war after war. The Nodes are easier to deal with, especially on the outside now.

This game has NEVER been a completely level playing field, the poster earlier that said 20-30 alliances have Thanos, is completely incorrect, the figure of people that have Thanos is max 6-7 alliances. The most Thanos are in the top 3 alliances. So the chances of you losing because they placed a Thanos are very slim to non.

Omni

Apologies if this has been addressed in the last 1.2k comments...

What happened to making this game not about the haves and have nots?

Doesn't the new scoring system heavily favor those alliances with more unique champs?

There are not 150 unique champs in the game so no one can maximize defender diversity, however every war there will be alliances with a significant advantage if they have rare champs ie: thanos/kang/IMIF/LOL Ultron/Red DP.

While some of these can be acquired by tackling difficult content, others can only be acquired by luck or chance.

By lowering the attacker kills as aggressively as you have you've effectively handicapped all alliances that do not have the above champs. To address this you need to keep it unique champs to each BG. Asking alliances to place that many is not feasible, but you are trying to make it so in tiers 1-2 where everyone 100 percents the maps.

This begs the question of your intent of changing war at all. Was the initial idea to make it more fair and balanced? That can not be the case if this was overlooked.

What was the thought process on this or was it overlooked?

Sadly I won't receive a response and if I do it will be that you are just bringing it up with your team...I've had at least 8 of my suggestions/comments addressed with this comment over the past year and never received a full answer...