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15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread
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Yes I did actually. In terms of basing it off of Time, I'm questioning it. Which is why I posted after the first reply and indicated that I'm intrigued by the idea of it, but I would have to know more about the proposal. If it's awarding more Points for Time, Suicides would make faster Kills. Then it becomes less about Skill and more about Masteries. I commented again because I was questioning whether it indirectly relates to the first idea because essentially, having to use Items accumulates more Time. Therefore penalty. I'm not so much rejecting that idea as curious to know more.
Number 4 is essentially number 1. If Defender Kills are brought back, an idea that I am not for, and they take effect after Reviving, that's the same as penalizing Item Use. To the tune of the amount that Kills accumulate to. Two birds, one stone. That penalizes dying AND using Items.
Ok seriously, it's my take on where they're headed and why. Given all of the information they've given so far, it's as good as any.
Just out of curiosity how's your suggestions to them coming along?
Top alliances basically have automatic wins so why would they complain? They manipulate match making so they dont fight each other. They know their defender rating is higher so 100% completion is a win. They literally can't lose under this system.
That's what I'm hoping the Defender Rating situation is averting. I suspect the system is balancing itself. If Allies are winning or losing based on Rating metrics, then they will end up in Tiers that are more in tune with their Rating. Therefore, less smaller Allies in proximity to peck off. Now, I would not be opposed to a more direct way of stopping this from happening. I'm not keen on it myself.
Having said that, Top Allies have the Rosters, Rating, Champs, skills, etc., to win regardless. I'm not entirely sure that there is much stopping them from winning in either system, unless metrics are introduced that provide a playing field that gives equal opportunity outside of everything else. Quite simply, the top has more of everything. I would be satisfied to see Wars won by Defender Rating that were not manipulated by some form of Agreement to maintain positions.
Stop taking about stuff you have no experience in, your in some bottom tier alliance where 99% of the changes just don't effect you yet your babbling on. Defender rating should never be the deciding factor
Opponents. 2 boss take down and 64% Map explored.
Their defender Rating 211482
Our Defender Rating 202769
Our Attacker Kills 85 (4250 points)
Opp Attacker kills 41 (2050 Points)
the difference is only 1800 points, Boss is difficult to defeat because of nodes their. and selection of our defender.
Now, we defeated their more defenders with high ratings and they defeated our low rating champs.,
We do not get any advantage of getting high rating defenders than ours. Removing Boss seems more important than exploring Map.
The difference in killing defenders are 34 ( not a little difference). But there are no big points for this just 1800 points.
Hack to win common WAR is explore 50% but Kill both Bosses.
As per current point system we cannot win war by exploring more than our opponents and killing more opponents.
Exploration can be easily done via empty nodes. But another scenario is killing more opponents do not have much points.
If we recruit 4 players to follow 2 same paths and go for boss take down. Chances to Win War is easier.
In comparison to 1 Boss take down and less exploration.
Is GW flagging every post exposing how low he is commenting on end game content just like in the previous forums? You're being flagged for pointing out he has no understanding on anything beyond heroic mode close you're eyes and smash buttons yets comments on tier2/1 wars, LOL and Legends events, and you get a flag for pointing out a very pertinent point?
It has been requested/stated over and over how much trash and toxicity that consumes > 70? >80? >90? percent of these forums? Why can't we filter by user tier, achievements, rating, etc., so it doesn't take all day reading through huge loads of trash to get pertinent information? The amount of useless information here is overwhelming with no way of filtering for these things - this FACT alone drives players away from even coming to the forums. I'm stuck on a certain boss in LOL, I'm having trouble breaking 4h on a certain Legends run, etc, I want to get input on players who actually know what these are without wasting all day here. How is this a bad thing for the community much less something constantly flagged and called abuse? It is a very valid point and request that would improve how useful and efficient your forums are for sharing PERTINENT information.
I'm not suggesting anyone should be blocked from commenting anything they want, they can post all they want like these low tier guys with thousands of posts who live in the forums instead of playing and/or learning the game. Let us just filter by Tier1 player posts, legends posts, LOL finisher posts, etc. Or explain why this is a bad thing for the community.
You are missing the whole point Miike, making the map harder is just secondary. BRING BACK DEFENDER KILLS POINTS. Try this and see what happens.
It was so long ago apparently that I feel the need to repeat the question. In what way does suggestion three and suggestion four resemble suggestion one? You said a lot of things completely unrelated to all of that, then said 4 is essentially 1 again, and failed to mention suggestion three at all. Again.
To the extent that you responded at all, simply stating as an obvious fact that two different suggestions (4 and 1) are essentially the same when a) one awards points to the defending alliance and one modifies the points awarded to the attacking side, and b) one changes the net scoring difference when an attacker is defeated and the other does not, is not really a serious objection. To the extent that you don't mention (3) at all, I guess we have to agree to disagree on how English works, because I've heard of the silent "e" but not the invisible paragraph.
I've offered my thoughts on the suggestions from the reference point of what I am ultimately for and not for. I see issues with those based on my stance. 4 and 1 are the same because the first accosts Points for using Items and the fourth begins accumulating Defender Kills after the first 3 Champs are used. Ergo, after Items are used. Unless there is another way to use more that Champs that I am unaware of. Some suggestions I am intrigued by, and others may be spun, but the ultimate effect is the same. I'm opposed to penalizing Item Use and Defender Kills, and I will see any spin of those.
At this point, I'm just repeating myself, and I've explained my view. I'm offering my opinion through the reference of what I support and what I do not. 3 I've already explained that I would have to know more about it, but I'm concerned it may be the same. I've explained this 3 times now. 4 is absolutely related to 1. Bringing Defender Kills and having them take effect after the first 3 Champs are used means one must use Items, unless there is another way to use more than 3 Champs I am unfamiliar with. Ergo, penalty for having to use Items, compounded by Defender Kills. There are some suggestions I am intrigued by, some I would want to know more, and some I am not for because they are variants that have the same effect. I am not in support of those aspects, and I will see a spin because the end result is the same.
Bottom line is, I do not support any penalty for Item Use or Defender Kills. They could make those the defining metrics tomorrow, and I would still not support it. I would play, obviously. I wouldn't be in support of it. I'm really not interested in going over it again. I said I was considering my own suggestions, and I offered my view based on my thoughts. I'm pretty sure it was as clear as possible.
With 6* champs on the horizon I wonder has Kabam given any thought as to how much fun they will be to fight on the upgraded nodes? Have you even tested the new nodes with 6*s kabam? Have you tested them at all?
Flare
-You have a 300% Attack Boost.
-You Degenerate 100% of your Max Health over 60 seconds.
-The strength of this Degeneration is affected by Class relationships.•If you have a Class disadvantage, it will be 150% over 60 seconds (essentially 100% over 40 seconds).
•If you have a Class advantage it will only deal 50% of your Max Health over those same 60 seconds.
This buff was a big sticking point for a lot of you in our original thread, and we definitely know why. Straight up degens can be scary, we know, but the degen here isn’t meant to force you to buy potions. It’s actually meant to act as a looming challenge for players to finish fights quickly as opposed to playing hyper-defensively. In our tests, aggressive players were able to finish fights very fast with teams of 4/40s, taking very little damage, especially when they had a Class Advantage. Basically, Flare is designed to encourage aggressive play.
Breakthrough
-Champion (the boss) has +5,000 Armor Rating.
-Every time you land a hit, you reduce Armor Rating by 200 permanently.•Once you land 25 hits, this bonus Armor Rating will have been overcome.
•All subsequent hits continue to apply the same reduction to boss’ base Armor Rating.
We’ve actually changed this one after some more playtesting since we announced it. Now, it will take half as many hits to remove the additional Armor Rating, but it’s worth noting that this is not persistent between fights, so if you die, you’ll have to land another 25 hits before the Armor Rating is gone again. Breakthrough is designed to do a couple things: first, it’s meant to discourage brute forcing (no relation to the other buff in this list) a fight. We want you to carefully consider who you’re bringing into the fight, and expect to use them for a decent period of time instead of simply throwing as many champions at it as you can. Secondly, it’s meant to speed the pace of the fight up over time. The fight will start slow, but eventually, if you play well and don’t die, you’ll reduce the opponent’s Armor Rating to 0 and start dealing way more damage.
Life Transfer
-You degenerate 2% of your Max Health Per Second.
-You steal 125% of the damage you deal as Health.•This percentage is affected by Class relationships (+ or - 25%)
This buff can be considered a cousin to Flare, but it has a slightly different intention in-game. Its is meant to loom over a fight, and may very well bring you close to death if you’re playing too defensively, but it’s also meant to reward well considered sequences of attack. The result is a yo-yo of tension throughout a fight. As an example, one of our playtesters was inches from death, playing as Storm, trying to bait a special. They dodged it, then threw her Special 2 and they were suddenly back at full health. This isn’t the only instance of this happening but it was exciting to watch, and easy to see how the buff facilitated a good risk-reward scenario, which is our intention.
Burden of Might
-Every time you gain a buff, you lose 25% of your Max Power.•You also get a 15% reduction to Power Gain for every buff currently active on you.
•This is NOT per unique buff. For example, a Phoenix with 7 Furies will have a ~100% reduction in Power Gain.
•This doesn’t affect power sources like Power Gain, only the Power gained from being hit or hitting an opponent.
•For example: Mordo will still get his Power Gain Buff’s full effect, but every time it activates, he will immediately lose 25% of his current Power, since it’s a buff.
Power Focus
-You gain increased Critical Rate equivalent to 25% of the percentage of your Max Power you currently have.•For example, if you have 100% of your Max Power, you will have a 25% increase to your Critical Rate, and if you have 40% of your Max Power, you will have a 10% increase to your Critical Rate.
Burden of Might and Power Focus are only used together in Chapter 1, so they essentially function as one buff in this context. Burden of Might is pretty straightforward in that it’s meant to encourage you not to bring champions that buff themselves into the fight, but originally, that was it. We realized quickly that this was more stick than carrot. Playing in the way the buff encouraged you to didn’t give you anything, it just became not noticeable and the fights didn’t feel unique. To fix this, we added Power Focus to incentivize champions who would gain power from somewhere other than Buffs (i.e. Champions who wouldn’t proc Buffs). The result is a scenario where it’s possible - but harder - to complete fights with a buff Champ, but it’s way more beneficial to A) bring someone who doesn’t proc Buffs,
Brute Force
-If you have not landed a hit in 6 seconds, you begin to suffer a Degeneration that deals 100% of your Max Health over 30 Seconds.•The strength of this Degeneration is affected by Class relationships (+ or - 50% Max Health). Below is the strength of this Degeneration per second it is on you:
•Disadvantage: 5% Max Health per second
•Base: 3.3% Max Health per second
•Advantage: 1.6% Max Health per second
-Landing a single hit on an opponent (the boss) will reset this timer and remove any Degeneration Effect.
Kinetic Instigator
-When you strike a blocking opponent (the boss), you gain the same amount of power as you would normally when hitting an opponent.
Like Power Focus and Burden of Might, Brute Force and Kinetic Instigator are used together, and they’re designed to encourage players to be more conscious of the rhythm of a fight, and to interrupt the normal flow of combat in interesting ways. We want to discourage the normal parry-combo-parry or evasion heavy play and instead place difficult decision points into those patterns. If the degen is about to start, do you keep baiting a special or do you land a single hit to reset it? What would be more dangerous for you? If you’re playing in a solid rhythm, and skilled at baiting specials, you will likely never even feel the degen at all, but just because it doesn’t take effect doesn’t mean it’s not affecting the rhythm of combat. Kinetic Instigator is here as a “bailout” from languishing in a cycle of not being able to land a hit. If you’re unable to land a hit to reset the timer, you can just pound on the enemy’s block enough to throw a special 3, and reset the timer.
To explain this i will compare it with the proposed suggestions by DNA:
1. Deduct points for champs revived...the reason you are reviving is obviously because you died,as so defender kills penalise this already.Also a problem with it could be that for example you might need to revive your vision for a bleed node fight,but you still have 2 more champs at full life(or alive) meanwhile somebody needs to revive because every champ on is team is dead
2. Thats similar to defender kills,just changing the amount if points you gain from them
3. Time...yes skilled players will do it in less time generally,but that could become a real mess,imagine luke cage becoming great just because he needs time to be beaten...
4.Thats defender kills again but maybe can work..(i still prefer the old defender kills).
5.Health remaining...again i agree skilled players would take less damage,but it its complicated and there is luck involved.Also the most important that with defender kills that was kind of existing...there was no penalty for damage taken..but you knew you had to take the less possible damage if you where to give the least possible deaths.
6.Damage dealt...again i agree skilled players would take less damage or a better defender will do more damage,But as i explained in 5 that was also covered with defender kills.You may weren't awarded points for it but you knew they others would suffer to not give deaths if they lost life.
To Conclude i like the suggestions from everyone ,and i mostly agree with DNA comments.I am not trying to neutralise his/her proposals but i am trying to point why(in my opinion) Defender Kills are and always will be the Fairest way to measure the skills of each Alliance and award a winner!!!
And something i wanted to add,changing the nodes of the map to add difficulty is a good first step.I am also not sure why there was so much whining about Thorns,i mean yes electro was mostly placed there but yet again with a champ decreasing defending ability you could still come out of it with very little damage taken,and that was quite like facing a duped Dormammu(not on a boss node where you will eventually die) .Took this specific example to explain that some tough nodes(even annoying ones) might give champs even more utility so we won't choose the same set of attackers in each war.Lastly I had also saw a previous comment(some days ago) from DNA again about buffing nodes and that it would be like searching a number above 9 and lower than 5.Thats true but only if you had to use the same number for the lower tier maps as well as the higher ones.I believe that they can found way to buff the node as needed to provide the necessary completion in lower maps and buff them in different ways for the higher maps!
For the record i am not a top tier player,but i am trying my best to see this from everyone's perspective!
You should add this to end of all your posts for comedic relief
...but even with harder nodes, it's just not interesting to win/lose AW based on diversity or rating.
#bringbackdefenderskills
Guys be specific and talk only points , Dont expect any changes ......it’s not just game anymore it’s business.
amen to that lol
Having fought them twice since the changes I can assure you they are not happy about the new war changes.
So that's just defender kills dressed up as something else so not to hurt any precious snowflakes feelings
Map difficulty has been increased so why haven't rewards been increased?
I don't see any of them voicing their concerns...?
Kabam only tend to listen to the whales. Hence why everyones suggestions so far have been ignored.
Because they know it's pointless to come here. This place is not for legitimate concerns or feedback. It's just an illusion. You see what they did with the all the feedback since AW 2.0, which was 99% in favor of having defender kills matter and on the 3rd, 4th? iteration we get.. Bane. And other **** that won't matter.
Auto-win scenarios will still exist and it makes a competitive game mode virtually pointless. It's now basically a random login calendar, some days you get a little more, some days you don't. At least no one will feel bad.. well if you don't count those that actually enjoyed head to head skill based competition rather than comparing the thickness of wallets.