Version 16.0 Discussion Thread

Summoners!

16.0 is dropping tomorrow, and it's bringing some big features to the Contest! Find out everything you need to know about the latest release in our Release notes here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/179870/#Comment_179870
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Comments

  • Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.



    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?
  • BendyBendy Posts: 524 ★★
    Glad the thunderquake debuff from howard is finally been fixed since thats been like it since his release i belive unless im mistaken
  • Dr_Doob617Dr_Doob617 Posts: 35
    How about fixing node 24 in AW, 5/50 4* getting 12K heals on the buffet buff is a joke! 4/55 5*s I believe are around 20K heals on the buffet, Why is that healing based on modified health? @Kabam Miike
  • xtremegamerxtremegamer Posts: 36
    edited October 2017
    Dr_Doob617 wrote: »
    How about fixing node 24 in AW, 5/50 4* getting 12K heals on the buffet buff is a joke! 4/55 5*s I believe are around 20K heals on the buffet, Why is that healing based on modified health? @Kabam Miike

    on arc overload 4/55 cap marvel was healing 11k per tick nearly impossible to defeat with regular champs.
  • ToxinToxin Posts: 23
    Because it generates money.. Here is why.. If they could they would base it in Greece s national debt..
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Posts: 292 ★★
    The Strategic Menu found on the left side of the screen in Quest Maps will only default to being Open at the start of every map, and will remain closed until opened again.

    Thank you for this! Just to confirm the menu is on the RIGHT side of the screen, hopefully this is the menu you are talking about.
  • ForumGuyForumGuy Posts: 285
    edited October 2017
    @Kabam Miike any plans on LOL being looked at?

    Iceman not being to stop evade through his coldsnap (can't remember if this one as fixed), but I do know that GP with a 50+ combo is still not stopping evade. What's up with that? Their evade isn't an offensive activated one(like cosmic spidey or spider gwen), it should be a defensive ability. Which means GP and iceman and others should stop their evasion. There should be no other reason why besides it being outdated with a lot of the new champs.

    I've even seen someone say that a dormammu was poisoned(by Maestro I believe)in Labyrinth of Legends.
  • Any idea when we might see a huge amount of champions changes? Still so many useless champions but nothing being done about it.

    These changes last longer and have a better impact on the game than a new monthly event no matter how good the monthly is.
  • RaaRaa Posts: 286
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,445 ★★★
    Combine with timed light attack, it may cause stun.
    Basic Attacks:

    25% chance to inflict Bleed, dealing 70% of your Attack as direct damage over 5 seconds.
    3% chance to Stun per Bleed active on target, lasting for 0.75 seconds.

    I guess, that is the problem.
  • ForumGuyForumGuy Posts: 285
    Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Her bleeds get consumed to restart a debuff like her sp2 debuff which stops power from any hit gwenpool does. Basically you could just stay there in the wall for a long time doing almost unlimited heavy attacks.

    Sad to see the bleed chance drop so much, but it's a solution to the exploit or whatever. Feel that they dropped it way too much though, 10-15% would've been cool. 5% is crazy.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 4,048 ★★★★
    ForumGuy wrote: »
    Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Her bleeds get consumed to restart a debuff like her sp2 debuff which stops power from any hit gwenpool does. Basically you could just stay there in the wall for a long time doing almost unlimited heavy attacks.

    Sad to see the bleed chance drop so much, but it's a solution to the exploit or whatever. Feel that they dropped it way too much though, 10-15% would've been cool. 5% is crazy.
    How im understand it only when u use a hervy ther have redus it

  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,445 ★★★
    Did not realise that. Champ nerf.
  • ForumGuyForumGuy Posts: 285
    Gamer wrote: »
    ForumGuy wrote: »
    Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Her bleeds get consumed to restart a debuff like her sp2 debuff which stops power from any hit gwenpool does. Basically you could just stay there in the wall for a long time doing almost unlimited heavy attacks.

    Sad to see the bleed chance drop so much, but it's a solution to the exploit or whatever. Feel that they dropped it way too much though, 10-15% would've been cool. 5% is crazy.
    How im understand it only when u use a hervy ther have redus it

    Idk what your just said, but basically her heavy attack has a high chance to put it bleed on the opponent, making it easier to restart her intervene. So since that has a high chance of restarting, you could just keep using your heavy attack over and over again until you failed trigger a bleed. (Which that chance failing took a while.)
  • RaaRaa Posts: 286
    ForumGuy wrote: »
    Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Her bleeds get consumed to restart a debuff like her sp2 debuff which stops power from any hit gwenpool does. Basically you could just stay there in the wall for a long time doing almost unlimited heavy attacks.

    Which part of her abilities makes her able to chain heavy attacks. I just wanna know how it'll make a difference when u still get that bleed on the heavy attack once the opponent is bleeding.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 4,048 ★★★★
    ForumGuy wrote: »
    Gamer wrote: »
    ForumGuy wrote: »
    Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Her bleeds get consumed to restart a debuff like her sp2 debuff which stops power from any hit gwenpool does. Basically you could just stay there in the wall for a long time doing almost unlimited heavy attacks.

    Sad to see the bleed chance drop so much, but it's a solution to the exploit or whatever. Feel that they dropped it way too much though, 10-15% would've been cool. 5% is crazy.
    How im understand it only when u use a hervy ther have redus it

    Idk what your just said, but basically her heavy attack has a high chance to put it bleed on the opponent, making it easier to restart her intervene. So since that has a high chance of restarting, you could just keep using your heavy attack over and over again until you failed trigger a bleed. (Which that chance failing took a while.)
    Is sad im bad to eng. But understand u.
    But alest it not the normal proz.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,593 ★★★★★
    edited October 2017
    Edit: nvm
  • BrianGrantBrianGrant Posts: 170
    Haji_Saab wrote: »
    Wait a second ...

    Isn’t it the second part of her heavy description that creates the loop? U pin a bleeding target to the wall and use the 100% chance to keep re-applying the bleed and combined with no power gain debuff, u can create a loop.

    Please tell me I m wrong otherwise does anyone tinkering with characters even play the game??

    The enervate debuff consumes a bleed to extend it's duration. After that bleed is gone, it will be tough to reapply through a heavy attack.
  • IanMooneIanMoone Posts: 640 ★★
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    What about AI exploiting their Sp3 by trapping me in a corner and not allowing me to get out of it? How is that fair to us players??? Secondly how is it possible if i corner the AI to which i end up on my corner after their SP3??? Doesnt make sense
  • Raa wrote: »
    eXtripa69 wrote: »
    Gwenpool Heavy Attacks:

    -If the target isn’t Bleeding when the last strike hits, it has a 50% chance to cause Bleed, doing 70% of Gwen’s attack over 5 seconds.
    -If the target is already Bleeding, the attack instead gains a 100% chance to convert 1 existing Bleed to cause 450% of Gwen’s attack as direct damage, over 23 seconds.

    So If I'm understanding it correctly, the first topic is the one that will be changed only, by decreasing the chance to proc a bleed from 50% to 5%?

    That is correct. This was done because there was an exploitable loop where a player was able to pin the opponent into a corner and just cycle heavy attacks, never allowing the Opponent to have a chance to get out of the corner.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but what does a reduced chance to proc a bleed from her heavy attack have to do with pinning an opponent to the corner?

    Any Champion can pin an opponent in the corner and keep them there with a series of heavy attacks. That's not the problem.

    The only way your opponent is able to get out of that corner is to throw a Special attack. Now, where this exploitable loop came in, is if Gwenpool had placed an Enervate on the opponent, and continuously applied a bleed through the use of her heavy in the corner, then Enervate would reapply every time it expired, permanently locking the opponent's power, never allowing them to throw a special attack, or even stand up and get out of the corner.
  • FPC3FPC3 Posts: 143 ★★
    Prime wrote: »
    Will we be getting a rank-down ticket on account of the GP nerf?

    And just because you label it an exploit, doesn’t meant it was actually against the rules or a bug. *You designed* her that way, and players used her as she was designed. Now you’re nerfing her ability. Significantly. That calls for a rank down ticket.

    *IF* they issued a Rank Down ticket, it would be a unique-use-item that only applied to Gwenpool. I have a hard time imagining ANYONE wanting to rank down GP because of this change.

    My suggestion was that they change the way this nerf works. Make it a 5% chance if the target is already under the effects of Enervate, but leave it as 50% if no Enervate is present.
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 2,593 ★★★★★
    BrianGrant wrote: »
    Haji_Saab wrote: »
    Wait a second ...

    Isn’t it the second part of her heavy description that creates the loop? U pin a bleeding target to the wall and use the 100% chance to keep re-applying the bleed and combined with no power gain debuff, u can create a loop.

    Please tell me I m wrong otherwise does anyone tinkering with characters even play the game??

    The enervate debuff consumes a bleed to extend it's duration. After that bleed is gone, it will be tough to reapply through a heavy attack.

    Yes, thought of it 1 minute later and edited my original comment. :)

    The nerf is a fix to an exploit. And does solve the issue.
  • A fight style and it’s consequential effect should not be construed as an exploit. Gwenpool was given the ability to use bleed to reapply her buffs. That’s the short end to it. How summoners use it to their benefit is an accomplishement, and it shouldn’t be viewed simply as an exploit.

    Whilst I understand your explanation and reason for applying such a drastic change, i simply have to register my protest and disagreement.

    The lock loop is not infinite. As all things at MCOC, it is subjected to RNG. It does take tremendous amount of ‘luck’ to consistently stack bleed in order to perpetuate both chain stuns and enervate. Even when you use heavy.

    Actually, it isn't easy to lose the lock due to RNG. If the 50% bleed was all there was, the lock would break much more quickly. But it is the fact that the heavy can convert bleed stacks into super-long bleed stacks that open a larger window into having a lot of long-duration bleeds as a safety margin for enervate.

    Personally, I've never seen the heavy cycle break, except at the very beginning. That's when it is most vulnerable: enervate could have only a few seconds left and you may not have many (or any) bleed stacks yet. But once you start chaining heavies you start building up bleeds fast because they keep getting converted into bleeds over three times longer in duration.
    It is not an exploit if it cannot be universally applied.
    Try thinking along the lines of champions that are 1) bleed immune and/or 2) had ability to shrug debuffs 3) bleed resistant. These champion types are now featuring heavily in the battlerealm, and this fight style is simply not suitable or effective.

    That is not a commonly accepted definition of an exploit. But it also doesn't matter what it is called. There's this thing that all MMO developers everywhere on Earth call an exploit which describes a circumstance where events happen in the game that are sufficiently outside the acceptable margins of the game behavior that prompt them to change the game to eliminate those events. This is one of those, and I don't think there's a dev team alive that would allow this particular circumstance to persist indefinitely.
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