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Gwenpool nerf

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Comments

  • The only reason people relied on her heavy was too lock enemies into the corner. With that tactic, you could defeat a lot of enemies on the Labyrinth easy path (Red hulk, Magik, spider gwen, falcon, ant man, Deadpool). Hell you could even take out X23 with it. Gpool is by no means a bad champ now that an exploit was removed. This same argument can't be applied to Magik or Voodoo, because eventually they need to use another special Attack. With Gwenpool, it's one L2 and then it's game over for the enemy
  • Hulk_77 wrote: »
    I get the need to close down the exploit.

    However, I have a 5*r4 Gwenpool with a sig of 133, and I've never duped her naturally. I am heavily invested in her, she is my top champ, and I have never once used this loop exploit.

    To be frank, I did use her heavy in certain situations, and always to apply or extend a bleed. If you have reduced this ability by a factor of 10, you have significantly gimped her. You need to give her something else to balance it out.

    Suggestion: Have her dip her katanas in poison when she faces a bleed immune, and apply poisons at the rate she normally bleeds opponents and have those poisons refresh her other debuffs like her bleed normally would. This would give her something back for what is a huge loss. And, it only helps her against a small subset (bleed immune but not poison immune characters).

    At that point, she'd only have 3 counters, which is ridiculous
  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    edited November 2017
    Like everyone has a rank 4 5 star Gwenpool. Really??? This was uncalled for. They should have identify the problem and ask us for feedback. Maybe after reading this post and all the ideas that have come out they would address it differently.
  • RektorRektor Posts: 671 ★★★
    Look on the bright side — if her 5% chance to bleed on heavies is anything like her 3% chance to stun, she will bleed on heavies 97% of the time.
  • Bianco wrote: »
    LeonBeni93 wrote: »
    While i wouldn't say thats the best solution to fix that exploit nor i believe that 5% is necessarily a fair percentage to be left with,I totally agree that gwenpool needed a fix.Yes that was a special and unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed.I love the idea of her mechanics(although i dont have neither a 4 or 5* version of her),i believe its a smart and unique ability to reapply your debuffs(enervate or amor break in this case),but making it very easy to use could lead to those not wanted cases of unfinished loops of debuffs so yes it needed a fix.

    I would like to state again that i am sure that there could be more fair ways to fix this and i was expecting Kabam to give us a better fix...here is hope the will and won't stick with this change!Lastly i am pretty sure GP is still useful so no-one needs to panic about it!

    Ok, so now let's change magik power lock chance from 85% to 5% because it's too much and you can easy cornered every champ... it's unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed

    As also other people stated already...you can't compare magic or vision ability to pin champs against the wall since the require skills!(well-timed intercepts,parry's and combos!).

    CapWW2 wrote: »
    Like everyone has a rank 4 5 star Gwenpool. Really??? This was uncalled for. They should have identify the problem and ask us for feedback. Maybe after reading this post and all the ideas that have come out they would address it differently.

    I agree they should have made the change much earlier since GP has been released for so long and many players have invented on her already(i don't have a GP as i already said..but i can understand those guys) and i also hope they can use our feedback and come up with a better fairer fix!
    That said i want to add that we need to understand that no matter how much they test some champions its normal when the thousands of us use them we will come up with different ideas which might have to lead to nerfs.I believe a possible solution could be a testing event where we are handed the new champs and can use them ONLY there just for testing purposes just before they are released...that should help avoid RDT's and sudden nerfs!
  • Rektor wrote: »
    Equating magik or OG vision‘s ability to pin a champ against the wall using actual combos initiated by well-timed intercepts to gwenpool’s no-skill, 1-touch, spam & cheese heavy attack nonsense is hilarious. Carry on.

    EXACTLY. People just don't read and start crying 'nerf' and 'ruined' etc etc.

    Most still don't even know which bleed is affected.
    The long bleed that happens on existing bleeds has 100% chance and isn't being changed.
    The bleed for 6 secs that had 50% chance on non-bleeding opponents is changed, and no one used it except rare cases, and of course this EXPLOIT.
    Idk why this thread hasn't been closed yet..
  • mum_m2mum_m2 Posts: 1,774 ★★★★
    Drummer16 wrote: »
    Seriously, I thought about this for 5 minutes and was thinking of a way to fix the actual issue. I thought, "Why not change it to FIX THE "EXPLOIT" and not ruin the character abilities?" I mean, you could simply add to the heavy attack description "This ability only applies to the first heavy attack in chained heavy attacks." That way people can't lock her in a corner anymore, and those that use it "the way kabam wants them to" will not be impacted.

    this has already been discussed and will be a much bigger nerf if you think about it.
  • i play with juggy.... most of time take the opponents to the corner and keep spaming my l1 all time unstopple and even opponents power dosnt work and make me easy to finished the opponents...
    is he will be ur next nerf....
    Seriously why did u gave gp that ability....
    u cannot nerf her...
    after nerf she wud be just waste and useless champs..... you need to revert your decission...
  • Armaganon00Armaganon00 Posts: 741 ★★
    To be Honest, Kabam should never nerf a character. There are to many trash champs in game that will never get buffed or made fun.

    @Kabam Miike Question - So does this only take down the chance for a bleed or a chance to convert a bleed into a longer bleed?

    There are many ways to get out of a corner with out a special. Parry, intercept, just evade the heavy. But if the chance to convert the bleed has changed this really hurts gwenpool but if it just the chance to cause a bleed it wont be very noticeable.
  • mum_m2mum_m2 Posts: 1,774 ★★★★
    To be Honest, Kabam should never nerf a character. There are to many trash champs in game that will never get buffed or made fun.

    @Kabam Miike Question - So does this only take down the chance for a bleed or a chance to convert a bleed into a longer bleed?

    There are many ways to get out of a corner with out a special. Parry, intercept, just evade the heavy. But if the chance to convert the bleed has changed this really hurts gwenpool but if it just the chance to cause a bleed it wont be very noticeable.

    No there is not. The AI doesn't have a chance to get out of the corner if they can't build up power. you're basically charging the heavy while they are still down on the ground. by the time they get up, there's nothing the AI can do to get out of that unless its an evade champion or if it's in arena resist.

    Parry - won't work because it's a heavy
    intercept won't work because there's not enough time
    Evade the heavy, not enough time.

    My suggestion is go into the arena, in the first 2 rounds, pin the person in the corner and time your heavies over and over again with anyone. The likely hood of them using a special is minimal. but you'll repeatedly bully them in the corner.
  • Maximus_SpankersonMaximus_Spankerson Posts: 447 ★★
    I understand the exploit.

    That said, this was a nerf none the less. Why not add what was teken away elsewhere? Add a few points to her base attack for instance. GP is a very popular character whom many chose to rank as high as the game permits.
  • Eos_Nano_XEos_Nano_X Posts: 304
    It isn't a case of the animation or anything. Any Champion can pin an opponent in the corner and keep them there with a series of heavy attacks.

    The only way your opponent is able to get out of that corner is to throw a Special attack. Now, where this exploitable loop came in, is if Gwenpool had placed an Enervate on the opponent, and continuously applied a bleed through the use of her heavy in the corner, then Enervate would reapply every time it expired, permanently locking the opponent's power, never allowing them to throw a special attack, or even stand up and get out of the corner.

    This was the smallest possible change we could make to Gwenpool, and addresses one of the smallest use cases for her attacks. So it was either this, or rework her Enervate, which is arguably much much more important to most players and her core gameplay kit.

    Then why not lessen the enervate timer? Surely that would have been easier and better...
    Or better yet, break your loop and set the code right by making the enervate not reapply, ad a timed block between activations.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    Oh this is hilarious, go read her description. The way Kabam implemented this is genius.

    This entire thread was wrong about how it would nerf her bleed damage, they actually only nerfed the heavy attack exploit.

    And to the one guy that put a thinly veiled threat into his comment about Kabam's office, that's not cool.
  • Eos_Nano_X wrote: »
    It isn't a case of the animation or anything. Any Champion can pin an opponent in the corner and keep them there with a series of heavy attacks.

    The only way your opponent is able to get out of that corner is to throw a Special attack. Now, where this exploitable loop came in, is if Gwenpool had placed an Enervate on the opponent, and continuously applied a bleed through the use of her heavy in the corner, then Enervate would reapply every time it expired, permanently locking the opponent's power, never allowing them to throw a special attack, or even stand up and get out of the corner.

    This was the smallest possible change we could make to Gwenpool, and addresses one of the smallest use cases for her attacks. So it was either this, or rework her Enervate, which is arguably much much more important to most players and her core gameplay kit.

    Then why not lessen the enervate timer? Surely that would have been easier and better...
    Or better yet, break your loop and set the code right by making the enervate not reapply, ad a timed block between activations.

    Yeah sure that wouldn't be a nerf AT ALL. Decreasing one of her main abilities, instead of one of the least used ones.
  • LurkerLurker Posts: 196
    and which of the many AI exploitable bugs got fixed at the same time? just guessing here ... 0.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 3,499 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike

    Just a question to clarify...apart from what’s mentioned in the changelog, there have been no other changes to GwenPool in any way, shape or form, correct?

    Dr. Zola
  • PalanthraxPalanthrax Posts: 677 ★★★★
    edited November 2017
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,969 Guardian
    edited November 2017
    Bianco wrote: »
    Watden wrote: »
    Bianco wrote: »
    LeonBeni93 wrote: »
    While i wouldn't say thats the best solution to fix that exploit nor i believe that 5% is necessarily a fair percentage to be left with,I totally agree that gwenpool needed a fix.Yes that was a special and unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed.I love the idea of her mechanics(although i dont have neither a 4 or 5* version of her),i believe its a smart and unique ability to reapply your debuffs(enervate or amor break in this case),but making it very easy to use could lead to those not wanted cases of unfinished loops of debuffs so yes it needed a fix.

    I would like to state again that i am sure that there could be more fair ways to fix this and i was expecting Kabam to give us a better fix...here is hope the will and won't stick with this change!Lastly i am pretty sure GP is still useful so no-one needs to panic about it!

    Ok, so now let's change magik power lock chance from 85% to 5% because it's too much and you can easy cornered every champ... it's unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed

    Yeah you can corner them, but if you can give me a video of magik cornering them indefinitely, then I’ll actually think you know what you’re talking about.
    Looks like gp cornered style??!

    Actually, it doesn't look like the problem, which suggests to me you don't understand the problem and are not reading the thread. What you are doing is something every champ can do: corner the computer temporarily. That's not the problem. What Gwenpool can (could) do and you cannot do is keep him pinned in the corner indefinitely with heavies. I mean, your video literally shows you running out of power lock and being forced to try to use another special two.

    "Cornering" in this situation doesn't mean "keep them on the right side of the screen." In this situation, cornering means putting the computer in the right corner and then bashing them with unblockable heavy attacks indefinitely, because they never gain power and cannot use a special to escape. If you tried to do that with Magik, Thanos would get to SP3 and kill you. You are letting him out of the corner, parrying him, then using special two to regain the power lock, and then chaining heavies while he is power locked. That is not the tactic being addressed for Gwenpool.
  • Qu1ckshoT32_GamingQu1ckshoT32_Gaming Posts: 153 ★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bianco wrote: »
    Watden wrote: »
    Bianco wrote: »
    LeonBeni93 wrote: »
    While i wouldn't say thats the best solution to fix that exploit nor i believe that 5% is necessarily a fair percentage to be left with,I totally agree that gwenpool needed a fix.Yes that was a special and unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed.I love the idea of her mechanics(although i dont have neither a 4 or 5* version of her),i believe its a smart and unique ability to reapply your debuffs(enervate or amor break in this case),but making it very easy to use could lead to those not wanted cases of unfinished loops of debuffs so yes it needed a fix.

    I would like to state again that i am sure that there could be more fair ways to fix this and i was expecting Kabam to give us a better fix...here is hope the will and won't stick with this change!Lastly i am pretty sure GP is still useful so no-one needs to panic about it!

    Ok, so now let's change magik power lock chance from 85% to 5% because it's too much and you can easy cornered every champ... it's unique exploit which shouldn't be allowed

    Yeah you can corner them, but if you can give me a video of magik cornering them indefinitely, then I’ll actually think you know what you’re talking about.
    Looks like gp cornered style??!

    Actually, it doesn't look like the problem, which suggests to me you don't understand the problem and are not reading the thread. What you are doing is something every champ can do: corner the computer temporarily. That's not the problem. What Gwenpool can (could) do and you cannot do is keep him pinned in the corner indefinitely with heavies. I mean, your video literally shows you running out of power lock and being forced to try to use another special two.

    "Cornering" in this situation doesn't mean "keep them on the right side of the screen." In this situation, cornering means putting the computer in the right corner and then bashing them with unblockable heavy attacks indefinitely, because they never gain power and cannot use a special to escape. If you tried to do that with Magik, Thanos would get to SP3 and kill you. You are letting him out of the corner, parrying him, then using special two to regain the power lock, and then chaining heavies while he is power locked. That is not the tactic being addressed for Gwenpool.

    The ai has plenty of options to counter Magik and Hyperion in map 6 does it quite frequently. If they throw a light atack instead of a dash attack you get intercepted yourself instead of continuing the intercept chain you were in.
  • Bmf420Bmf420 Posts: 161
    If you're going to take something away from any champ something of equal value should've been put in. Maybe a additional few percent in her bleed chance or something like add that long bleed to her l3 with the armorbreak.
  • Couldn’t it have a bit more like aa’s heavy bleed where it doesn’t turn to neurotoxin, they could have something similar there that 1 instance of bleed varies from the rest
  • RektorRektor Posts: 671 ★★★
    Stop crying before they really examine her other strengths and make it worse. Did you learn nothing from what happened to the champ formerly known as Dr. Strange?

    Move on
  • Then shouldn't you give all of those who have gwenpool as a 4star or 5star a skill rank down ticket? I remembered that you once said that it will only be issued if a character got nerfed. Right? @Kabam Miike
  • FluxxyFluxxy Posts: 57
    edited November 2017
    So much crying, Jesus! I'll still be using mine for everything and I suspect so will all of you.
    It's not a big deal. Chin up princesses it'll be okay.
  • Bmf420Bmf420 Posts: 161
    She wasn't nerfed that bad. If you rank her down because you can't cornerlock then.........I don't even know what to say without insulting you.
  • New_Noob168New_Noob168 Posts: 1,312 ★★★
    Technically this shows u why this is a bad company If done uses an awakening gem or ranks her r5 or r4 5* because of her powers shouldn't u be allowed to rank her down now because of your mistakes? Absolutely terrible company
  • Apocalypse_810Apocalypse_810 Posts: 107
    edited November 2017
    Nerf Hyperion 30 punch combo heavy attack while you're at it. I've been trapped by ai with that plenty of times. But nope, this isn't to help us, only too help ai out. I don't care either way because I never knew about the corner trap tactic. Lol
  • KhanMedinaKhanMedina Posts: 927 ★★★
    Couldn't they just make it like Ultron's evade where it only has a chance to do the bleed every 7 seconds. This should give enough time for the bleed to run off if they only want to use it for corner spamming. Most other uses of it should be fine with a 7 second cool down.
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