Ai Speedups

NastyPhishNastyPhish Member Posts: 583 ★★★
Are they intended?

Are they going to stay?

Or is this something you’ve noticed and is a bug?

Looking for official word about this subject specifically, as it’s become worse and worse and is making the game FEEL unplayable.

An overwhelming majority of the “skill” we’ve developed over these years is knowing when you can and can’t attack. Every single patch closes a couple more doors. Is that meant to be happening? Because I’m positive the veteran players of this game have no interest in relearning 250 champ timings ever 30 days.

And being short of knowing when you can and can’t attack, makes the game feel like an RNG based game. Instead of the skill game I downloaded years ago.

So are the speed ups intended? Are you intentionally making defender stand ups faster?

A Concerned Battle-Realm Citizen.

Comments

  • NastyPhishNastyPhish Member Posts: 583 ★★★
    Would love any sort of actual input on this subject.
  • Would love any sort of actual input on this subject.

    I'm not sure I know what you mean. The enemy stand ups aren't any faster than they've been before. Nothing about how the AI moves has changed in years. There are some newer bugs like their ability to throw a special in the middle of a combo or heavy attack, but that has nothing to do with the AI and is already well known by Kabam.
  • Would love any sort of actual input on this subject.

    I'm not sure I know what you mean. The enemy stand ups aren't any faster than they've been before. Nothing about how the AI moves has changed in years. There are some newer bugs like their ability to throw a special in the middle of a combo or heavy attack, but that has nothing to do with the AI and is already well known by Kabam.
    This is factually incorrect. Simply look at old gameplay. It’s way slower. Anyone can tell that.

    What you mentioned as being a bug is actually a symptom of a slightly faster Ai recovery time. So when you slow your combo for just a split-second. They can attack. And in this case special attack.

    In the case of a heavy, the decrease in recovery time makes the passive heavy stun, that happens under the hood in a heavy attack, expire before the second hit of the heavy. Again, giving them a split second to fire a special.

    But if you start looking for it in other places, you’ll see it’s actually happening all the time all over the contest. You eat one hit of a special, but spam block and you can every once in a while, get control and block the second half. Or just go practice and heavy spam them, watch how often the Ai will recover and try to block before the second or third hit. Pretty frequently.

    To anyone playing this game everyday for years. These changes are obvious.
    Do you have any proof of that? I've been playing since year one, I still play very frequently, and the AI feels exactly the same to me. You're very confident in what you believe to be true, but we hear this all the time and I'm not sure you have much to back it up. I struggle with intercepting too, and I also miscalculate the enemy's recovery time, but there's no real reason to believe that's it's not a skill issue.

    If the changes are so obvious, then show them. There's not much Kabam can or will do otherwise.
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★

    Would love any sort of actual input on this subject.

    I'm not sure I know what you mean. The enemy stand ups aren't any faster than they've been before. Nothing about how the AI moves has changed in years. There are some newer bugs like their ability to throw a special in the middle of a combo or heavy attack, but that has nothing to do with the AI and is already well known by Kabam.
    This is factually incorrect. Simply look at old gameplay. It’s way slower. Anyone can tell that.

    What you mentioned as being a bug is actually a symptom of a slightly faster Ai recovery time. So when you slow your combo for just a split-second. They can attack. And in this case special attack.

    In the case of a heavy, the decrease in recovery time makes the passive heavy stun, that happens under the hood in a heavy attack, expire before the second hit of the heavy. Again, giving them a split second to fire a special.

    But if you start looking for it in other places, you’ll see it’s actually happening all the time all over the contest. You eat one hit of a special, but spam block and you can every once in a while, get control and block the second half. Or just go practice and heavy spam them, watch how often the Ai will recover and try to block before the second or third hit. Pretty frequently.

    To anyone playing this game everyday for years. These changes are obvious.
    Do you have any proof of that? I've been playing since year one, I still play very frequently, and the AI feels exactly the same to me. You're very confident in what you believe to be true, but we hear this all the time and I'm not sure you have much to back it up. I struggle with intercepting too, and I also miscalculate the enemy's recovery time, but there's no real reason to believe that's it's not a skill issue.

    If the changes are so obvious, then show them. There's not much Kabam can or will do otherwise.
    It's definitely not the same. There are things that have changed how the ai interacts with us. I'm not saying it's intentional but i has changed nonetheless.

    Back when the champion boss was nerfed for the first time there was a very significant change that happened to the AI that caused it to be super passive. Just walking in everywhere and doing nothing.

    Kabam then die something to fix it. It fixed it yes but i caused a change that makes it so that when you whiff an attack and lay idle, you're now virtually guaranteed to have the AI walk right upto you and stay open untill you attack which it will promptly well time blcok
  • Would love any sort of actual input on this subject.

    I'm not sure I know what you mean. The enemy stand ups aren't any faster than they've been before. Nothing about how the AI moves has changed in years. There are some newer bugs like their ability to throw a special in the middle of a combo or heavy attack, but that has nothing to do with the AI and is already well known by Kabam.
    This is factually incorrect. Simply look at old gameplay. It’s way slower. Anyone can tell that.

    What you mentioned as being a bug is actually a symptom of a slightly faster Ai recovery time. So when you slow your combo for just a split-second. They can attack. And in this case special attack.

    In the case of a heavy, the decrease in recovery time makes the passive heavy stun, that happens under the hood in a heavy attack, expire before the second hit of the heavy. Again, giving them a split second to fire a special.

    But if you start looking for it in other places, you’ll see it’s actually happening all the time all over the contest. You eat one hit of a special, but spam block and you can every once in a while, get control and block the second half. Or just go practice and heavy spam them, watch how often the Ai will recover and try to block before the second or third hit. Pretty frequently.

    To anyone playing this game everyday for years. These changes are obvious.
    Do you have any proof of that? I've been playing since year one, I still play very frequently, and the AI feels exactly the same to me. You're very confident in what you believe to be true, but we hear this all the time and I'm not sure you have much to back it up. I struggle with intercepting too, and I also miscalculate the enemy's recovery time, but there's no real reason to believe that's it's not a skill issue.

    If the changes are so obvious, then show them. There's not much Kabam can or will do otherwise.
    It's definitely not the same. There are things that have changed how the ai interacts with us. I'm not saying it's intentional but i has changed nonetheless.

    Back when the champion boss was nerfed for the first time there was a very significant change that happened to the AI that caused it to be super passive. Just walking in everywhere and doing nothing.

    Kabam then die something to fix it. It fixed it yes but i caused a change that makes it so that when you whiff an attack and lay idle, you're now virtually guaranteed to have the AI walk right upto you and stay open untill you attack which it will promptly well time blcok
    You say that, but as long as you don't have anything to back it up, it's just speculation. People also have to understand that the way we interact with the AI changes much more than the way the AI interacts with us. I also experience that last interaction you mentioned, but I've never not experienced it. The way I see it, just holding block or continuously dashing back until the AI stops walking are easy and simple ways to counteract it.
  • Giantwalrus56Giantwalrus56 Member Posts: 990 ★★★★
    edited June 2023
    Personally, the main difference I've noticed is being intercepted by a special. I've also seen that I'll get my special blocked or worse, my basic hit parried if I have what seemed to me as normal response timing. Am I too slow or has the timing changed? Granted I've only been playing 3 yrs but I'm fairly sure the first 2, it never, or happened a such a frequency as it does now. Is that an actual AI change, not sure. Part of me wonders as the game evolves, meaning new champions & new gameplay mechanics, that code written for those actions is part of the reason
  • AngelMcNugget is just another AI bot. You know them now because they keep asking for proof. People have been submitting vids for at least a couple of years now. Kabam is aware, they just can’t fix it because the AI has become “aware”. Every time they neutered the AI in the past, it lasted for a short while but the AI always won through eventually.

    Ah yes, the prophecy's always stated that the AI uprising would start in the marvel mobile game. NETmarble? SkyNET? Coincidence? I think not.
  • SmasherM86SmasherM86 Member Posts: 79
  • GogiGogi Member Posts: 476 ★★★
    So, what are you asking for? higher content AI to be on level with act1? stupid and slow? The AI is in a good place atm aggressive and gives you a challenge, I don't see a point in tuning it down.
  • SmasherM86SmasherM86 Member Posts: 79
    Oh really, you are really being honest here !!
  • GogiGogi Member Posts: 476 ★★★
    Elthan said:

    Gogi said:

    So, what are you asking for? higher content AI to be on level with act1? stupid and slow? The AI is in a good place atm aggressive and gives you a challenge, I don't see a point in tuning it down.

    Agressive ? really ?? You're serious ?

    Lately, it takes me more than 40 seconds to bait the AI to launch a special attack in a timed mode (AW, battlegrounds). Even the taunt debuff can't force them to use it (and no, there's no node or interaction forcing them to turtle).

    Also, as others pointed, the recovery time became so short that it became dangerous to punish a knocked down AI because they can launch a counter attack before they are fully up and recovered: you dash in, the AI starts to get up but nope, it's already too late and you either eat a combo or a special.

    So fast sometimes that the AI chained three 5-hit combos without letting me block in between, dash back or launch a special. I know I'm getting older by the years and my reflexes may decline but come on, give me a break with that stupid overtuned AI.
    From my experience so far in this patch, i have not had those issues. I like more the threath lvl AI then how TB Ai worked before. I know in some cases it can be hard to trick the AI to throw specials, ex Hyperion or when you push AI close to 3 bars then they get really passive in some cases, but it has been like that for a long time and not just now. I speak from my own experience, I expect the AI to be more aggressive/tricker on higher levels which is what I feel the AI is at now.
  • noclutchnoclutch Member Posts: 186 ★★
    Looking forward to offical comments.
  • iDestroyerZiDestroyerZ Member Posts: 728 ★★★★
    edited June 2023
    You know what i find interesting? This game has bugs in literally any area: vfx, combat/input, events, updates and even a compensation has bugs lately
    So when kabam miike keeps saying over and over again that the AI doesn't have a single issue, it doesn't make sense if you compare to the rest of the entire game...the game is in a state that it's beyond horrible in terms of gameplay and continuous bugs through the entire game but hey, their AI is perfect :D
    ''We DiDn'T ChAnGE THe AI'' okay but there's 0 chance that the AI have a single bug?
    The AI keeps waiting on timers, insane fast reaction, constant intercept and counter intercept as well (i've been noticing the AI avoid light intercept with certain champions like hercules and abs man) and more and more that people have already said in the foruns and yes, they did make a video about it
    This is a video about how fast the ai throw a special 3 and y'all can skip to the end (to those who didn't get how he manage to throw the sp3, when the armor buff expired the AI gained power but you can't even see the armor expire cause the AI throw sp3 in like milliseconds, so that was a case of how fast the reaction of the AI currently is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEj9h9xi4w8
  • You know what i find interesting? This game has bugs in literally any area: vfx, combat/input, events, updates and even a compensation has bugs lately
    So when kabam miike keeps saying over and over again that the AI doesn't have a single issue, it doesn't make sense if you compare to the rest of the entire game...the game is in a state that it's beyond horrible in terms of gameplay and continuous bugs through the entire game but hey, their AI is perfect :D
    ''We DiDn'T ChAnGE THe AI'' okay but there's 0 chance that the AI have a single bug?
    The AI keeps waiting on timers, insane fast reaction, constant intercept and counter intercept as well (i've been noticing the AI avoid light intercept with certain champions like hercules and abs man) and more and more that people have already said in the foruns and yes, they did make a video about it
    This is a video about how fast the ai throw a special 3 and y'all can skip to the end (to those who didn't get how he manage to throw the sp3, when the armor buff expired the AI gained power but you can't even see the armor expire cause the AI throw sp3 in like milliseconds, so that was a case of how fast the reaction of the AI currently is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEj9h9xi4w8
    He's not saying the issues dont exist, just that they aren't AI issues, or at least intentional changes. If you believe the AI is acting wonky, you should report it as an individual bug with all the information they asked for. I keep hearing "BuT tHeReS pRoOf OuT tHeRe" and never actually see the proof. This forum gets 3+ threads a day just about wonky AI or gameplay issues with absolutely zero critical information. This video just shows the AI throwing the special 3 as soon as it could, the same thing you or I would do. Of course it's more difficult for us to interpret, but there's no glitch there. The AI works by giving the AI an option to do anything it physically can do in the moment. Here, the AI had an sp3 and had just finished it's recovery animation, so it was given the option to throw the sp3 and did it.
  • iDestroyerZiDestroyerZ Member Posts: 728 ★★★★

    You know what i find interesting? This game has bugs in literally any area: vfx, combat/input, events, updates and even a compensation has bugs lately
    So when kabam miike keeps saying over and over again that the AI doesn't have a single issue, it doesn't make sense if you compare to the rest of the entire game...the game is in a state that it's beyond horrible in terms of gameplay and continuous bugs through the entire game but hey, their AI is perfect :D
    ''We DiDn'T ChAnGE THe AI'' okay but there's 0 chance that the AI have a single bug?
    The AI keeps waiting on timers, insane fast reaction, constant intercept and counter intercept as well (i've been noticing the AI avoid light intercept with certain champions like hercules and abs man) and more and more that people have already said in the foruns and yes, they did make a video about it
    This is a video about how fast the ai throw a special 3 and y'all can skip to the end (to those who didn't get how he manage to throw the sp3, when the armor buff expired the AI gained power but you can't even see the armor expire cause the AI throw sp3 in like milliseconds, so that was a case of how fast the reaction of the AI currently is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEj9h9xi4w8
    He's not saying the issues dont exist, just that they aren't AI issues, or at least intentional changes. If you believe the AI is acting wonky, you should report it as an individual bug with all the information they asked for. I keep hearing "BuT tHeReS pRoOf OuT tHeRe" and never actually see the proof. This forum gets 3+ threads a day just about wonky AI or gameplay issues with absolutely zero critical information. This video just shows the AI throwing the special 3 as soon as it could, the same thing you or I would do. Of course it's more difficult for us to interpret, but there's no glitch there. The AI works by giving the AI an option to do anything it physically can do in the moment. Here, the AI had an sp3 and had just finished it's recovery animation, so it was given the option to throw the sp3 and did it.
    Some people you can't argue, no matter what you say they will act on defense
    ''AI had an sp3 and had just finished it's recovery animation, so it was given the option to throw the sp3'' really? The bar didn't even change the color lmao
    I marked your comment just in order to mark kabam miike's post, but i won't keep arguing with you here cause it's pointless, you will act defensively just like almost every post you make a comment
    My thoughts about it and the video it's already there
    Just to not let this part go tho: ''you should report it as an individual bug with all the information they asked for'' recently i made two posts about two different bugs that has nothing to do with AI or anything like that, made a video about it and post it, kabam simply ignored both of them...maybe that's why people don't report like that more often, it's pointless cause might get ignored and quite often, they do.
  • You know what i find interesting? This game has bugs in literally any area: vfx, combat/input, events, updates and even a compensation has bugs lately
    So when kabam miike keeps saying over and over again that the AI doesn't have a single issue, it doesn't make sense if you compare to the rest of the entire game...the game is in a state that it's beyond horrible in terms of gameplay and continuous bugs through the entire game but hey, their AI is perfect :D
    ''We DiDn'T ChAnGE THe AI'' okay but there's 0 chance that the AI have a single bug?
    The AI keeps waiting on timers, insane fast reaction, constant intercept and counter intercept as well (i've been noticing the AI avoid light intercept with certain champions like hercules and abs man) and more and more that people have already said in the foruns and yes, they did make a video about it
    This is a video about how fast the ai throw a special 3 and y'all can skip to the end (to those who didn't get how he manage to throw the sp3, when the armor buff expired the AI gained power but you can't even see the armor expire cause the AI throw sp3 in like milliseconds, so that was a case of how fast the reaction of the AI currently is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEj9h9xi4w8
    He's not saying the issues dont exist, just that they aren't AI issues, or at least intentional changes. If you believe the AI is acting wonky, you should report it as an individual bug with all the information they asked for. I keep hearing "BuT tHeReS pRoOf OuT tHeRe" and never actually see the proof. This forum gets 3+ threads a day just about wonky AI or gameplay issues with absolutely zero critical information. This video just shows the AI throwing the special 3 as soon as it could, the same thing you or I would do. Of course it's more difficult for us to interpret, but there's no glitch there. The AI works by giving the AI an option to do anything it physically can do in the moment. Here, the AI had an sp3 and had just finished it's recovery animation, so it was given the option to throw the sp3 and did it.
    Some people you can't argue, no matter what you say they will act on defense
    ''AI had an sp3 and had just finished it's recovery animation, so it was given the option to throw the sp3'' really? The bar didn't even change the color lmao
    I marked your comment just in order to mark kabam miike's post, but i won't keep arguing with you here cause it's pointless, you will act defensively just like almost every post you make a comment
    My thoughts about it and the video it's already there
    Just to not let this part go tho: ''you should report it as an individual bug with all the information they asked for'' recently i made two posts about two different bugs that has nothing to do with AI or anything like that, made a video about it and post it, kabam simply ignored both of them...maybe that's why people don't report like that more often, it's pointless cause might get ignored and quite often, they do.
    And you're just going to act on offense. It's a two way street, bro. I also made a post about a bug with video proof and an explanation that got no response, and I'm extremely confident it's just because they already knew about it. The forums mods have to go through a lot of posts every day and maintain direct contact with the devs, there's no reason to comment on every bug that gets reported. If you wanna be able to see everything that happens behind the scenes, that's just not gonna happen. Transparency is clearly important to them, which is why Miike goes out of his way to reexplain the same concept so many times. If you're just outright denying his explanations, you're just maintaining a toxic circle of pointless complaining. This forum is meant to help Kabam employees do their job better and to give us transparency, both of which you seem to be fairly against. I'm sure the next "AI BAD DO SOMETHING" post will surely be the catalyst that fixes it all.
  • NastyPhishNastyPhish Member Posts: 583 ★★★
    edited June 2023
    I’m also not saying the AI shouldn’t change. It should get more aggressive and tricky. Sure. IMO the TIMINGS shouldn’t change. Because, we rely on knowing these timings as players. For 250 champs

    It not being mentioned and it being contest wide is the main reason I think it’s a bug and not meant to be happening.

    If they ARE changing the speed, why isn’t it mentioned in patch notes where changes are supposed to be talked about? That’s my question.
  • JoseOkJoseOk Member Posts: 278 ★★

    I’m also not saying the AI shouldn’t change. It should get more aggressive and tricky. Sure. IMO the TIMINGS shouldn’t change. Because, we rely on knowing these timings as players. For 250 champs

    It not being mentioned and it being contest wide is the main reason I think it’s a bug and not meant to be happening.

    If they ARE changing the speed, why isn’t it mentioned in patch notes where changes are supposed to be talked about? That’s my question.

    This is what I want to hear. You can make the AI harder without messing around with all the AI interactions and abilities. I think they were trying to fix things and in turn it messed the AIs response.
  • MikealsniteMikealsnite Member Posts: 29

    AngelMcNugget is just another AI bot. You know them now because they keep asking for proof. People have been submitting vids for at least a couple of years now. Kabam is aware, they just can’t fix it because the AI has become “aware”. Every time they neutered the AI in the past, it lasted for a short while but the AI always won through eventually.

    Ah yes, the prophecy's always stated that the AI uprising would start in the marvel mobile game. NETmarble? SkyNET? Coincidence? I think not.
    Lol What prophecy?

    Even going by your sarcasm, IF there were gonna be a real Skynet, it would have to start somewhere. Starting in a game by accident, or say a media chat, possibly an art program…why are any of these more absurd than the other. You do know they have AIs that interact with people on boards now, don’t you? Twitter, IG, Facebook, etc…

    Wait, OF COURSE you do…! ;-P
    You almost had me, nice! 😂 👏
  • Booya5Booya5 Member Posts: 7
    The community of kabam customers has provided enough examples of issues and AI overclocking. Any kabam employee could pick up their device and, within minutes of playing, easily recreate every single issue pointed out by the community. They don’t need us to give them a litany of redundant information because they already have all the examples they need on any device that has the game. Kabam is obviously trying to distract from their issues by claiming ignorance and telling (daring?) the consumer to try to prove Kabam’s negligence. If kabam refuses to even acknowledge how faulty their product has become and if they can’t/won’t fix it, then we just need to stop being customers.
  • JestuhJestuh Member Posts: 274 ★★★
    edited June 2023

    You know what i find interesting? This game has bugs in literally any area: vfx, combat/input, events, updates and even a compensation has bugs lately
    So when kabam miike keeps saying over and over again that the AI doesn't have a single issue, it doesn't make sense if you compare to the rest of the entire game...the game is in a state that it's beyond horrible in terms of gameplay and continuous bugs through the entire game but hey, their AI is perfect :D
    ''We DiDn'T ChAnGE THe AI'' okay but there's 0 chance that the AI have a single bug?
    The AI keeps waiting on timers, insane fast reaction, constant intercept and counter intercept as well (i've been noticing the AI avoid light intercept with certain champions like hercules and abs man) and more and more that people have already said in the foruns and yes, they did make a video about it
    This is a video about how fast the ai throw a special 3 and y'all can skip to the end (to those who didn't get how he manage to throw the sp3, when the armor buff expired the AI gained power but you can't even see the armor expire cause the AI throw sp3 in like milliseconds, so that was a case of how fast the reaction of the AI currently is

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEj9h9xi4w8
    Glad you posted this vid because it shows several issues I’ve been experiencing lately.

    1. Throwing specials while still knocked down
    2. Immediately countering even though they were just hit (or interrupting combos which I don’t think you showed)
    3. Throwing s3 before their power bar is red

    I’m experiencing a lot more issues than this but it’s nice to see video proof of a few.

    Every time I start recording I only capture minor things. But some of the frame skip issues and desync of the game and graphics are just ridiculous.

    I’ve been running map 6 aq for quite some time and the last month or two I’ve had to use items for the first time ever. I’m seriously losing r4 6s champs to these things on map freaking 6. I don’t even bring r2 6s to aq anymore because one glitch and they’re basically dead.
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