Feeling “Champion Locked”

BigBlueOx · March 25

I was gonna post the following in response to this great term I saw xNig use in the Magic Thief feedback thread (not tagging to save you from spam use), but I thought it was worthy of its own thread:

I really hate this feeling of being “champ locked”. It feels like this in more and more game modes. This feeling of looking at my roster of 250+ champs but being restricted to a list of 20-25 options with only 5-10 of those options being optimal.

This isn’t the same as a restrictive node that’s a puzzle to solve like “Do you Bleed?” 6.3.1 Medusa that caused me a bunch of stress on my first clear… but ultimately I felt like I overcame a hurdle. A hurdle that required a bit of skill and a bit of game IQ. This is that feeling you get from looking at content like Winter of Woe’s Abs Man #robots objective. That feeling of you must use, champion X1, x2, or x3. That feeling of I guess the other 247+ champions aren’t relevant.

Now I picked on that objective as I felt like it best embodied the feeling but in “challenge” content like that I actually don’t mind it. Having narrow end game challenges is fun, provided they don’t stray into overly restrictive territory like Woe’s Abs Man did with that objective. Or if they are limiting like the CCP Carina challenges, they feel optional like those did, with indefinite timers so I can tackle them on my own pace. Also rewards you don’t mind skipping if the stress ain’t worth it (here’s looking at you LoL Starlord Carina Challenge). The thing is though, that “champ locked” feeling is now occurring in things like BGs, AW, and Raids I just don’t enjoy it.

I’m not someone who enjoys playing Herc, I actually avoid using him the way I used to avoid using Quake after I mastered the Quake and Shake. Both are incredible champs… but they also cheapen my enjoyment of the game. They bypass too much, often the interactions that make the game fun too. It’s more like I have Champion ADD… yes I have my favorites but one of my favorite things about this game is learning and using new kits, and then bringing those kits into BGs, AW, AQ, Raids, and story mode. This feeling of being “champ locked” in these modes just gives me that same feeling of I guess only these 3 champs matter… I guess I “have” to use this champ every AW, Raid, etc. until the meta changes.

In these game modes I miss having the ability to flex my roster and identify who else could I use to solve the puzzle. So I thought I’d share as maybe I’m not the only one.

captain_rogers · March 25

No one is forcing you to use x magica/magic hiest champ on bgs, story, eq or low - medium tier war. They get a small boost, it's upto you to use them or not

BigBlueOx · March 25

captain_rogers said:
No one is forcing you to use x magica/magic hiest champ on bgs, story, eq or low - medium tier war. They get a small boost, it's upto you to use them or not

I think the sagas boost thing so far seems fine, it’s small enough where we can ignore it, but still gives those champs a small lift. That’s not what I’m trying to highlight, which is why I didn’t call it out.

captain_rogers · March 25

Then what you mean by "champ locked"? Maybe give me a little TL DR please (I read your entire essay but still can't understand what you mean by "using the same 3 champs"

BigBlueOx · March 25

captain_rogers said:
Then what you mean by "champ locked"? Maybe give me a little TL DR please (I read your entire essay but still can't understand what you mean by "using the same 3 champs"

That feeling of essentially being told what champion we have to use in a specific mode by limiting the pool of available options, and not all those options being optimal or even good choices. The current Magic Thief meta is a good example but I think it’s true in Raids as well where some of the available options in the pools are pretty useless. And it’s something that’s reduced the enjoyment of BGs as well since attacker nodes were introduced.

captain_rogers · March 25

But these pools are not rigid or permanent. Bg champ pools rotate every month, and I rarely use x magica-magic thief specific attackers on bgs. Champ locked bg meta is actually polka dot power + power shield (S14 meta).

Raids pool should change every few months, I agree. But it's a once per month mode So I don't care much anyways.

Attacker node in bgs actually increased the fun because, 1) the bonus is not too high to feel mandatory and 2) It allows us to explore less used champs who get that bonus.

BigBlueOx · March 25

captain_rogers said:
But these pools are not rigid or permanent. Bg champ pools rotate every month, and I rarely use x magica-magic thief specific attackers on bgs. Champ locked bg meta is actually polka dot power + power shield (S14 meta).

Raids pool should change every few months, I agree. But it's a once per month mode So I don't care much anyways.

Attacker node in bgs actually increased the fun because, 1) the bonus is not too high to feel mandatory and 2) It allows us to explore less used champs who get that bonus.

Sorry, I found BGs more enjoyable when it was the defensive metas that created puzzles for me to solve which let lesser used champs shine and even excel. I’m not a big fan of being influenced who to use through attack boosts, it reduces the puzzle/rpg elements of the game that I enjoy.

The rotating pools are less impactful when it’s a feeling that’s spreading across other game modes too. It wasn’t too bad when it was just AW it rotated and I could escape it by playing other modes. I actually understood it in AW to a degree as the nodes themselves don’t change so it was a way to create new puzzles for us, provided it isn’t overdone like the current meta.

In other modes though, it feels more intrusive, it feels more like I’m being influenced who to use rather than solving the puzzles myself, which reduces my enjoyment of those modes.

Rayven5220 · March 25

Not gonna lie, the boost hasn't changed anything for me. I forgot it was going.

Thr only time I have worried about tactic or anything is in war.

We're tier 5, currently and so I make sure to bring Herc, and a couple x'magica attackers to deal with tactic defenders.

A_Fungi · March 25

So you are a hipster and want to be different, not use the champs that are useful everywhere. You want to find a niche champ to use and make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?

You have no actual examples of what you are saying outside of Herc. Which you said you are above using.

The introduction of Sagas actually encourages people to play champs that they may normally ignore, which is counterintuitive to your complaint.

No one forces you to set a battle deck a specific way for BGs. I always find it amusing to use my Maw and Terrax on offense because they drafted attackers specifically for them.

If you are bored with Raids (it has been done a whole 3x now), how about swapping your role or the champion you are using to find a different experience.

Your other example was the robot objective (which Kabam gave you a freebie to not do). All of the WoW (formerly EOP) are very specific on the champ you can use. And again, you are probably using a champ outside of the norm... I used Howard the Freaking Duck for one of them.

BigBlueOx · March 25

A_Fungi said:
So you are a hipster and want to be different, not use the champs that are useful everywhere. You want to find a niche champ to use and make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?

You have no actual examples of what you are saying outside of Herc. Which you said you are above using.

The introduction of Sagas actually encourages people to play champs that they may normally ignore, which is counterintuitive to your complaint.

No one forces you to set a battle deck a specific way for BGs. I always find it amusing to use my Maw and Terrax on offense because they drafted attackers specifically for them.

If you are bored with Raids (it has been done a whole 3x now), how about swapping your role or the champion you are using to find a different experience.

Your other example was the robot objective (which Kabam gave you a freebie to not do). All of the WoW (formerly EOP) are very specific on the champ you can use. And again, you are probably using a champ outside of the norm... I used Howard the Freaking Duck for one of them.

Oh you must be a hipster too! I used Howard as well. Great champ.

OR… stay with me here. The game is more fun when we need to figure it out ourselves and aren’t told who to use.

Hope to see you at the overpriced drip coffee pit soon.

CyborgNinja135 · March 25

BigBlueOx said:

A_Fungi said:
So you are a hipster and want to be different, not use the champs that are useful everywhere. You want to find a niche champ to use and make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?

You have no actual examples of what you are saying outside of Herc. Which you said you are above using.

The introduction of Sagas actually encourages people to play champs that they may normally ignore, which is counterintuitive to your complaint.

No one forces you to set a battle deck a specific way for BGs. I always find it amusing to use my Maw and Terrax on offense because they drafted attackers specifically for them.

If you are bored with Raids (it has been done a whole 3x now), how about swapping your role or the champion you are using to find a different experience.

Your other example was the robot objective (which Kabam gave you a freebie to not do). All of the WoW (formerly EOP) are very specific on the champ you can use. And again, you are probably using a champ outside of the norm... I used Howard the Freaking Duck for one of them.
OR… stay with me here. The game is more fun when we need to figure it out ourselves and aren’t told who to use.

I still see that as a puzzle. Instead of having to think of a champion, you now need to think about how you will adapt your playstyle and the champion's rotation to the fight. The focus shifts from the rpg aspect of the game to the actual fighting. The puzzle is just "how can I use a suboptimal counter to beat this fight?"

BigBlueOx · March 25

CyborgNinja135 said:

BigBlueOx said:

A_Fungi said:
So you are a hipster and want to be different, not use the champs that are useful everywhere. You want to find a niche champ to use and make yourself feel smarter than everyone else?

You have no actual examples of what you are saying outside of Herc. Which you said you are above using.

The introduction of Sagas actually encourages people to play champs that they may normally ignore, which is counterintuitive to your complaint.

No one forces you to set a battle deck a specific way for BGs. I always find it amusing to use my Maw and Terrax on offense because they drafted attackers specifically for them.

If you are bored with Raids (it has been done a whole 3x now), how about swapping your role or the champion you are using to find a different experience.

Your other example was the robot objective (which Kabam gave you a freebie to not do). All of the WoW (formerly EOP) are very specific on the champ you can use. And again, you are probably using a champ outside of the norm... I used Howard the Freaking Duck for one of them.
OR… stay with me here. The game is more fun when we need to figure it out ourselves and aren’t told who to use.
I still see that as a puzzle. Instead of having to think of a champion, you now need to think about how you will adapt your playstyle and the champion's rotation to the fight. The focus shifts from the rpg aspect of the game to the actual fighting. The puzzle is just "how can I use a suboptimal counter to beat this fight?"

That’s not a puzzle to me, that’s in the line of being assigned a “challenge”. Fine from time to time, but when it’s over done it gets old quickly.

There’s a reason why WoW Dani is far and away the best WoW fight yet. It’s challenging and open. Literally any champ, even Groot, can do this skill based fight and the champ restriction felt like an additional challenge not a core feature of the design

Feeling “Champion Locked”

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