Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

Vdh2008 · 2017-12-21T16:58:46+00:00

Any comments on this?<br/><br/><a href="https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure" rel="nofollow">https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure</a><br/><br/>

Vdh2008

Any comments on this?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure

Comments

Thatweirdguy

BCdiscman wrote: »

Vdh2008 wrote: »

I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.

Let's be honest though. I know it has been said before but even though drop rates would be nice to know even if KABAM said the 5* drop rate of a desirable champion (like say Blade) as 0.001% it wouldn't change people's spending habits. I know it wouldn't mine. If it did the lottery wouldn't exist.

I don't agree with this. It would change some players spending habits to be sure. Not necessarily veteran players since they already know how bad crystal odds are.

DNA3000

Cujo999 wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Can't blame Mike for not addressing this. He is only permitted to address what his superiors allow/want him to address. They've obviously forbidden him from commenting on this issue.

I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.

App games are a competitive industry. If Kabam tells everyone how they've maintained their business model with Apple's new guidelines, then their competition can easily copy their model. We can't just expect them to give away trade secrets because we're curious.

That's really not how monetization models work. The odds of the crystals provides competitors with little to zero information. It is the engagement numbers - the amount they sell of different things at different times under different circumstances - that form the basis for any sort of competitive information, and that information is not subject to disclosure.

Also, I've been hearing that mobile games that have loot box-like items have started to disclose those odds when they update in the Apple app store. Apparently the Simpsons game started doing it, and apparently the Futurama game has started doing it. I don't play either, but I have seen reports of the changes in their forums.

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DNA3000

Googleplexian wrote: »

Guess I know why this months quests came without an update 😂

Kabam would have had to plan for January's content to be included in the December update before Apple updated their guidelines.

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Cujo999

DNA3000 wrote: »

Cujo999 wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Can't blame Mike for not addressing this. He is only permitted to address what his superiors allow/want him to address. They've obviously forbidden him from commenting on this issue.

I would like to know how Kabam is complying with this. That level of transparency is probably not going to happen unless Apple steps in and forces it somehow.

App games are a competitive industry. If Kabam tells everyone how they've maintained their business model with Apple's new guidelines, then their competition can easily copy their model. We can't just expect them to give away trade secrets because we're curious.

That's really not how monetization models work. The odds of the crystals provides competitors with little to zero information. It is the engagement numbers - the amount they sell of different things at different times under different circumstances - that form the basis for any sort of competitive information, and that information is not subject to disclosure.

Also, I've been hearing that mobile games that have loot box-like items have started to disclose those odds when they update in the Apple app store. Apparently the Simpsons game started doing it, and apparently the Futurama game has started doing it. I don't play either, but I have seen reports of the changes in their forums.

Maybe my post wasn't clear. If Kabam found a way to "beat the system" and not disclose hard odds while staying in compliance, they shouldn't feel obligated to share how on a public forum.

I hope the odds come out, I really do. But I'm still not going to hold my breath.

Vdh2008

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Vdh2008 wrote: »

I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.

No offence mate, but did you read any of this thread at all before this post? The fact that they wont have to do this at all for many many reasons. So, no complaints, as not relevant at all

Ha! It's my thread so I get an update every time someone posts, so yeah, read it.

I will bet $ that we see some sort of change, whether it be the removal of daily crystals that are bought for $ or the release of some sort of "odds" statement.

There WILL be complaints to the app store if this doesn't happen. That's just a fact.

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Vdh2008

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Vdh2008 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Vdh2008 wrote: »

I would think they will delay and delay making this info public for as long as possible. It will likely take complaints to the app store support to push them into action.

No offence mate, but did you read any of this thread at all before this post? The fact that they wont have to do this at all for many many reasons. So, no complaints, as not relevant at all

Ha! It's my thread so I get an update every time someone posts, so yeah, read it.

I will bet $ that we see some sort of change, whether it be the removal of daily crystals that are bought for $ or the release of some sort of "odds" statement.

There WILL be complaints to the app store if this doesn't happen. That's just a fact.

But its not a Fact at all? Its your opinion. When (if) something changes, then that is a fact?

Dude, I did not say the changes would be a fact, I said the COMPLAINTS would be a fact. And it will be. I know that if nothing changes I will be bringing a complaint to the app store to report that MCOC is NOT complying with their app guidelines, and I am SURE I am not the only one who will do this.

This information should have been public long ago. It's time to stop the conspiracies and fear mongering, and just release this info.

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colbyscipio987

EA must be behind this

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JRock808

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Wsm10 wrote: »

Man, so much craziness in this thread. All I can say is I hope we find out the PHC drop rates for stars at least. I just opened 30 of the shard PHC's and got 2 3*, and this stuff is incredibly frustrating. My hope is they have to release the percentage chances for different stars and that, in turn, makes them increase at least 3* drop rates. That's all I want. This now marks me opening 105 PHC's and getting a whopping 7 3*'s & 98 2*'s. I'm sorry but that stuff is absolutely insane. Gladly it was all shard crystals, but still. That, to me, is completely unacceptable.

Did you buy those PHCs mate? If not, then no drop rates will ever be needed. Rewards are not "loot boxes paid for with currency" they are rewards, so free. So no rules at all cover DRs for these

And cant see any reason Kabam would increase the drop rates for bought ones just because they show the odds, we already know they are very bad odds

You can often purchase phc for real money, ignoring the buy units to buy loot boxes debate for now, so assuming those odds are shown we could assume that they and the ones acquired via playing are the same. That could be a bad assumption, but I'd imagine maintaining multiple drop rates for the same items would lead to more issues than it would solve.

colbyscipio987

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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CoatHang3r

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

JRock808

Hubris_hater wrote: »

JRock808 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Wsm10 wrote: »

Man, so much craziness in this thread. All I can say is I hope we find out the PHC drop rates for stars at least. I just opened 30 of the shard PHC's and got 2 3*, and this stuff is incredibly frustrating. My hope is they have to release the percentage chances for different stars and that, in turn, makes them increase at least 3* drop rates. That's all I want. This now marks me opening 105 PHC's and getting a whopping 7 3*'s & 98 2*'s. I'm sorry but that stuff is absolutely insane. Gladly it was all shard crystals, but still. That, to me, is completely unacceptable.

Did you buy those PHCs mate? If not, then no drop rates will ever be needed. Rewards are not "loot boxes paid for with currency" they are rewards, so free. So no rules at all cover DRs for these

And cant see any reason Kabam would increase the drop rates for bought ones just because they show the odds, we already know they are very bad odds

You can often purchase phc for real money, ignoring the buy units to buy loot boxes debate for now, so assuming those odds are shown we could assume that they and the ones acquired via playing are the same. That could be a bad assumption, but I'd imagine maintaining multiple drop rates for the same items would lead to more issues than it would solve.

But the fact that they wont have to have the same DRs means we wont actually know even that mate? Like I keep saying, we dont actually have anything in this game even like Loot boxes, so these new rules wont apply and even if they did, they just wont help us at all

Crystals are lootboxes. Anything that contains random items with is a loot box. There's enough semantics to argue over, but this shouldn't be one of them.

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Thatweirdguy

DNA3000 wrote: »

Googleplexian wrote: »

Guess I know why this months quests came without an update 😂

Kabam would have had to plan for January's content to be included in the December update before Apple updated their guidelines.

OK I guess you can believe that it is just a coincidence that there was no update this month if you wish. You can also believe that the game team wanted to keep the Task Master load screen during the Sentry event. You can also believe that the delay in roll out of this month's event had nothing to do with jamming this event in without an update. You can also choose to believe that other games revealing drop rates after an update is simply a coincidence.

Yeah....you can believe all that if you'd like I guess. Sure why not?

colbyscipio987

CoatHang3r wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

Watch angry joe show he'll explain everything

Sirnoob

CoatHang3r wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

ea charged triple A price for a entire game which progression system was locked behind lootboxes ended up losing billions due to it since it flopped sad too devs looked like they put a lot of energy into the game

colbyscipio987

Sirnoob wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

ea charged triple A price for a entire game which progression system was locked behind lootboxes ended up losing billions due to it since it flopped sad too devs looked like they put a lot of energy into the game

Thank you for the explaination, i didn't feel like typing all that

Sirnoob

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Sirnoob wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

ea charged triple A price for a entire game which progression system was locked behind lootboxes ended up losing billions due to it since it flopped sad too devs looked like they put a lot of energy into the game

Thank you for the explaination, i didn't feel like typing all that

that game was such a disappointment

colbyscipio987

Sirnoob wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Sirnoob wrote: »

CoatHang3r wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

colbyscipio987 wrote: »

EA must be behind this

Err, what? Confused now mate?

What!!!! You never heard of what happened to battlefront 2 and loot boxes and EA. Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What happened?

ea charged triple A price for a entire game which progression system was locked behind lootboxes ended up losing billions due to it since it flopped sad too devs looked like they put a lot of energy into the game

Thank you for the explaination, i didn't feel like typing all that

that game was such a disappointment

Im glad i didnt buy the game its not worth half the price they asking($60).#thx(angryjoeshow)

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Vdh2008

Hubris_hater wrote: »

JRock808 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

JRock808 wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

Wsm10 wrote: »

Man, so much craziness in this thread. All I can say is I hope we find out the PHC drop rates for stars at least. I just opened 30 of the shard PHC's and got 2 3*, and this stuff is incredibly frustrating. My hope is they have to release the percentage chances for different stars and that, in turn, makes them increase at least 3* drop rates. That's all I want. This now marks me opening 105 PHC's and getting a whopping 7 3*'s & 98 2*'s. I'm sorry but that stuff is absolutely insane. Gladly it was all shard crystals, but still. That, to me, is completely unacceptable.

Did you buy those PHCs mate? If not, then no drop rates will ever be needed. Rewards are not "loot boxes paid for with currency" they are rewards, so free. So no rules at all cover DRs for these

And cant see any reason Kabam would increase the drop rates for bought ones just because they show the odds, we already know they are very bad odds

You can often purchase phc for real money, ignoring the buy units to buy loot boxes debate for now, so assuming those odds are shown we could assume that they and the ones acquired via playing are the same. That could be a bad assumption, but I'd imagine maintaining multiple drop rates for the same items would lead to more issues than it would solve.

But the fact that they wont have to have the same DRs means we wont actually know even that mate? Like I keep saying, we dont actually have anything in this game even like Loot boxes, so these new rules wont apply and even if they did, they just wont help us at all

Crystals are lootboxes. Anything that contains random items with is a loot box. There's enough semantics to argue over, but this shouldn't be one of them.

@JRock808

Mate, you missed the point entirely? Please list items that we can currently Buy with real currency that have multiple items in? A 5 star crystal has only one item in, a Five-star champ etc. So please list any that cost real money that have different items in apart from PHCs?

There arent any

So, even if Kabam have to show DRs (they dont) then what items will have them on apart from PHCs? And how will that help?

Every daily special.