In your opinion, should serpent have been nerfed?

Comments

His regen + power gain at 1% they should have nerfed that-- I faced one where he regen more than 20% from 1%

Kind of a moot point, but people who have him will vote no and people who don't voted yes
I have him r5 ascended sig 200, not true at all.

Same, and I was absolutely shocked he did not get tuned down.

WillieB

I have a 6* r5 sig 200 and a 7* and I voted yes, his abilities at 1% needed an adjustment. You can have a perfect counter and still lose the fight 1 out of 4 times do to his ability accuracy being that much higher than the best counters.

ShaggyM

On Saturday Kabam Crashed when asked about the super event said they listen to community feedback especially as overwhelming the sentiment is for the super event. Looking from the feedback in forums and the amount of dislikes from the post saying he wouldn't be nerfed I would that's not the case here.

Wicket329

On Saturday Kabam Crashed when asked about the super event said they listen to community feedback especially as overwhelming the sentiment is for the super event. Looking from the feedback in forums and the amount of dislikes from the post saying he wouldn't be nerfed I would that's not the case here.

“Listen to” and “acquiesce to” are different things. Sometimes the community is wrong.

Emilia90

The people here justifying serpent is hilarious

Name one champ who can stall as long as he can. Name one champ who counters pretty much everyone in the game and can even stall his “best” mystic counters. Undexable, coldsnap immune, burst reduction, crit reduction, massive power gain, massive regen, a full 12 seconds of immortality that can’t be turned off by anyone with a 100% chance, stun immune on specials, immune to pretty much every mystic form of control, turns of unblockable so champs like Tigra are less efficient, one of the biggest health pools in the game, counters evade and miss

I’m so tired of people bringing up bullseye and onslaught and photon when they already had champs that cooked them super fast before they were even released.

Who works for serpent? Chavez? Oh you need good crit rng. My r3 takes a while against a r5A (punching down) and serpent has massive crit res. Kushala? Too long of a fight unless additional buffs are in play. She counters the block damage and does good damage but no way to turn off the immortality. Sym takes 70 seconds plus, so does Wiccan, WT can do the fight nicely but she isn’t guaranteed either, Tigra works but you need a cooperative AI and there’s still a chance his death immunity procs. Luke? He’s still too slow. Unless you’re both fighting serpent you’re gonna lose to time or eat a special 3

So yes the community is justified. Anyone claiming he’s balanced is wrong. There isn’t a single champ with this much defensive bs packed in who can’t be taken down fast and pretty much guarantees a round loss in bg

M0NKEYNUTS

No.

only reason is because I have him

Nemesis_17

Kind of a moot point, but people who have him will vote no and people who don't voted yes

I pulled both the 7* and the 6* yesterday for the first time and I’m still majorly disappointed.

BigBlueOx

The people here justifying serpent is hilarious

Name one champ who can stall as long as he can. Name one champ who counters pretty much everyone in the game and can even stall his “best” mystic counters. Undexable, coldsnap immune, burst reduction, crit reduction, massive power gain, massive regen, a full 12 seconds of immortality that can’t be turned off by anyone with a 100% chance, stun immune on specials, immune to pretty much every mystic form of control, turns of unblockable so champs like Tigra are less efficient, one of the biggest health pools in the game, counters evade and miss

I’m so tired of people bringing up bullseye and onslaught and photon when they already had champs that cooked them super fast before they were even released.

Who works for serpent? Chavez? Oh you need good crit rng. My r3 takes a while against a r5A (punching down) and serpent has massive crit res. Kushala? Too long of a fight unless additional buffs are in play. She counters the block damage and does good damage but no way to turn off the immortality. Sym takes 70 seconds plus, so does Wiccan, WT can do the fight nicely but she isn’t guaranteed either, Tigra works but you need a cooperative AI and there’s still a chance his death immunity procs. Luke? He’s still too slow. Unless you’re both fighting serpent you’re gonna lose to time or eat a special 3

So yes the community is justified. Anyone claiming he’s balanced is wrong. There isn’t a single champ with this much defensive bs packed in who can’t be taken down fast and pretty much guarantees a round loss in bg

Completely agree, he was designed to counter pretty much all high end attackers, masteries and boosts outside of his “RPG counters” and it shows:

-Kate - both damage sources are cooked
-Titania - use indestructible to tank a SP3, here enjoy another, oh and no indestructible boosts for you for any non chosen option
- Tigra - I see you like burst damage, well let’s reduce ALL sources of red numbers, because let’s make sure we don’t miss any abilities that might bypass his critical resistance
- Undexable specials… let’s give him a way to screw over both evade and miss, gonna have to use that block button. No Ghost allowed and can’t have any evading that sweet sweet block damage… oh you know what he needs Pierce let’s make sure we punish people playing the fight as intended too.
- brought an counter? Here enjoy the nodes that invalidate 4 out of the available 5 counters. May the gods favor your draft. Oh wait you drafted who you needed, enjoy this passive AI that instinctively performs in a way that makes using that kit neigh impossible.

Not one other defender is overtuned to this degree. He requires a mixture of a counter, fair AI knowledge and skill, in that order, and with skill being the least important by a county mile. It is pure hubris that ignores this and their own track record demonstrates that others have been nerfed for less, there is a level of true hypocrisy in this announcement in addition to tonedeaf stubbornness

Vegeta9001

His kit paired with healthpool and limited counters make him too much. Its all well and good the game team looking at a neutral matchup and going "yeah he's fine" but that's not accounting for a BG meta or nodes that basically rule out one of the counters, of which I can count direct counters on one hand and semi counters on a second hand.

ItsClobberinTime

I would be willing to bet that we get at least two more Serpent counters before 2025.

Next month we have Shathra and Nefaria. Shathra is mystic and likely to be more of an attacker than a defender. Nefaria, according to the line of text posted with his animations, is a regen and power gain controller. Both of these have potential for shutting down Serpent.

Additionally, in his discussion on Vega’s stream, Kabam Crashed said that there are a number (I believe four) of thus far unannounced champion buffs coming before the end of the year. I think at least one of those will be a mystic Serpent counter. Personally, I’m hoping it’s Loki because I think it would be rad if Loki just womped Serpent.

Anyway, I think this is why Kabam didn’t tune Serpent. They saw that his counters do a good job of potatotizing him, and they know something we don’t.
Hate to break it to you but DLL said there will never be another Galan Peni situation, so no, nobody is going to be potatotizing Serpent unless (like Patriot and Negasonic) they have mid damage that's just not viable in BGs unless you're a Gold 3 scrub.
We already have it. Sym Supreme absolutely deletes Serpent. My r4 unascended 6* bullies 7* r3 high sig AW bosses. There’s an itty-bitty baby skill check involved in surviving long enough to get the special cycle going, but once it’s on Serpent gets wrecked. There are other champs in game already who can also do this (Spidey Supreme is another, less commonly thought of counter.)

I’m not saying it’ll be as over the top as Galan/Peni was, but do you really think we aren’t gonna see mystic champs with combinations of buff and power control in the future? That’s literally the mystic class identity, and it’s how power creep works in all live games.

I’m not saying Serpent is going to stop being a potent defender, that’s not Kabam’s goal (again, going back to how Galan and Hulkling just removed Peni from the defensive meta). But there will be more tools in players’ hands to address the problem. And I think that will be sooner rather than later.
No we don't, war is a completely different scenario and you know it. Time doesn't matter in war, and you can use as many boosts as you want.
Go try that in BGs with SymSupre or Spidey Supreme against a r3 awakened Serpent and we'll see if it's really as one sided as you claim, can guarantee you it won't be purely because of time. If it was then damn you should've been in the tournament in Canada since most players who went there are also frustrated with the balance updated and Serpent staying as is.

Chavez has a ton of power control, SymSupreme has a ton of buff control, Rintrah can shut down death immunity. In order to shut down Serpent so he isn't as op you'd need a combination of shutting down death immunity and one of the other two however at that point that would be a hard counter. I really don't see how any of this would work without making it a hard counter.
https://youtu.be/htDUr6cFYgs?si=7XuUp2DQDLCmOg17

Seems like Spidey works pretty well to me 🤷🏻‍♂️
im not believing that you’re killing serpent bosses with a r4 sym supreme until I see a video, if that’s the case you should be masters easily
Funny you should mention that.

I spent a few seasons in Masters but took a step back because I prefer ranking off-meta fun champs (remember, this is a game). Played with a lot of players you’ve probably heard of. I don’t have a YouTube channel of my own, but if you’d like I could send those Sym Supreme videos over Line.

That was nearly 80 seconds you can't be serious.

EdisonLaw

https://youtu.be/V9JD6wX3Oa8?si=mgsRkWNj829e48hQ

https://youtu.be/WMgQXyRblT0?si=9f4Zts860_OuCgUV

https://youtu.be/OqJtVMqhgwg?si=xDhWLNiUtaEWlkbn

ItsClobberinTime

The people here justifying serpent is hilarious

Name one champ who can stall as long as he can. Name one champ who counters pretty much everyone in the game and can even stall his “best” mystic counters. Undexable, coldsnap immune, burst reduction, crit reduction, massive power gain, massive regen, a full 12 seconds of immortality that can’t be turned off by anyone with a 100% chance, stun immune on specials, immune to pretty much every mystic form of control, turns of unblockable so champs like Tigra are less efficient, one of the biggest health pools in the game, counters evade and miss

I’m so tired of people bringing up bullseye and onslaught and photon when they already had champs that cooked them super fast before they were even released.

Who works for serpent? Chavez? Oh you need good crit rng. My r3 takes a while against a r5A (punching down) and serpent has massive crit res. Kushala? Too long of a fight unless additional buffs are in play. She counters the block damage and does good damage but no way to turn off the immortality. Sym takes 70 seconds plus, so does Wiccan, WT can do the fight nicely but she isn’t guaranteed either, Tigra works but you need a cooperative AI and there’s still a chance his death immunity procs. Luke? He’s still too slow. Unless you’re both fighting serpent you’re gonna lose to time or eat a special 3

So yes the community is justified. Anyone claiming he’s balanced is wrong. There isn’t a single champ with this much defensive bs packed in who can’t be taken down fast and pretty much guarantees a round loss in bg

Exactly! It's not just the fact that if you don't play it perfectly from the get go you start to take ridiculous chip damage, it's the fact that he's also a Sasquatch level tank and there's really nothing you can do to prevent that massive time stall due to the death immunity buff. The few champs that can shut it down fully like Rintrah and Dani guess what? Lmao they don't work either because of that stupid dread reducing crit penetration and burst damage by 60%.

DLL needs to sit down and think about his life choices at this point, he says he regrets Kate's damage, how tf does he not regret this?

Squidopus

The people here justifying serpent is hilarious

Name one champ who can stall as long as he can. Name one champ who counters pretty much everyone in the game and can even stall his “best” mystic counters. Undexable, coldsnap immune, burst reduction, crit reduction, massive power gain, massive regen, a full 12 seconds of immortality that can’t be turned off by anyone with a 100% chance, stun immune on specials, immune to pretty much every mystic form of control, turns of unblockable so champs like Tigra are less efficient, one of the biggest health pools in the game, counters evade and miss

I’m so tired of people bringing up bullseye and onslaught and photon when they already had champs that cooked them super fast before they were even released.

Who works for serpent? Chavez? Oh you need good crit rng. My r3 takes a while against a r5A (punching down) and serpent has massive crit res. Kushala? Too long of a fight unless additional buffs are in play. She counters the block damage and does good damage but no way to turn off the immortality. Sym takes 70 seconds plus, so does Wiccan, WT can do the fight nicely but she isn’t guaranteed either, Tigra works but you need a cooperative AI and there’s still a chance his death immunity procs. Luke? He’s still too slow. Unless you’re both fighting serpent you’re gonna lose to time or eat a special 3

So yes the community is justified. Anyone claiming he’s balanced is wrong. There isn’t a single champ with this much defensive bs packed in who can’t be taken down fast and pretty much guarantees a round loss in bg
Completely agree, he was designed to counter pretty much all high end attackers, masteries and boosts outside of his “RPG counters” and it shows:

-Kate - both damage sources are cooked
-Titania - use indestructible to tank a SP3, here enjoy another, oh and no indestructible boosts for you.
- Tigra - I see you like burst damage, well let’s reduce ALL sources of red numbers, because let’s make sure we don’t miss any abilities that might bypass his critical resistance
- Undexable specials… let’s give him a way to screw over both evade and miss, gonna have to use that block button. No Ghost allowed and can’t have any evading that sweet sweet block damage… oh you know what he needs Pierce let’s make sure we punish people playing the fight as intended too.
- brought an counter? Here enjoy the nodes they invalidate 4 out of the available 5 counters. May the gods favor your draft. Oh wait you drafted who you needed, enjoy this passive AI that instinct performs in a way that makes using that kit neigh impossible.

Not one other defender is overtuned to this degree. It’s pure hubris that ignores this and their own track record demonstrates that others have been nerfed for less, there is a level of true hypocrisy in this announcement.

Well said, one of Serpent’s issues in my eyes is that his design is inherently contradictory like Photon. Both of them have undexable specials. I honestly do not care about this despite others’ misgivings, I think it’s a fine ability in a vacuum. The issue is they clearly expect you to block their specials with the average champ instead and they don’t really let you do that either. Photon reduces block proficiency by a flat value per debuff, and Serpent has base block penetration alongside a pierce passive and enough power gain to make sure you have to block multiple specials. Photon is “fine” nowadays I guess; I think her design is stupid and should have been nerfed for that alone but she’s not broken and has counters. Serpent is because he has that alongside like 10 different other threats.

It’s also just lame that he punishes so many mystics. That -60% burst damage is an insane nerf to a lot of mystics’ damage like Werewolf, Tigra, Abs man, Chavez, etc. and the resistance up hits a lot of the rest pretty hard like Wiccan. You can use buff control to remove some of his problems like his power gain and fury buffs, but that also means he ramps up culforce charges faster. It just doesn’t feel like there’s a situation where you “win”. I bring Zemo for Photon and I win. I bring Onslaught for Bullseye and I win. I bring Vox for Arcade and I win. Those all might take some effort and good play on my end but I can win pretty handily. I bring Chavez, Mojo, or Sym supreme against Serpent and I just don’t feel like I’m “winning” because I’m still walking a tightrope for >75 seconds and losing health from chip. Even if I luck out a victory in a bg round against Serpent, I never feel accomplished so much as I feel like my opponent just played gravely wrong.

Squidopus

So well said I (accidentally) quoted it twice lol. Either way Serpent just isn’t fun; he’s hard but there’s no real sense of “wow I conquered a difficult challenge”, just “I didn’t get completely screwed, just moderately so in a way that didn’t really matter because I still lost”.

EdisonLaw

So well said I (accidentally) quoted it twice lol. Either way Serpent just isn’t fun; he’s hard but there’s no real sense of “wow I conquered a difficult challenge”, just “I didn’t get completely screwed, just moderately so in a way that didn’t really matter because I still lost”.

This. I don’t understand why they said you can skillfully play around Serpent’s mechanics, when there’s no skill involved

Emilia90

I would be willing to bet that we get at least two more Serpent counters before 2025.

Next month we have Shathra and Nefaria. Shathra is mystic and likely to be more of an attacker than a defender. Nefaria, according to the line of text posted with his animations, is a regen and power gain controller. Both of these have potential for shutting down Serpent.

Additionally, in his discussion on Vega’s stream, Kabam Crashed said that there are a number (I believe four) of thus far unannounced champion buffs coming before the end of the year. I think at least one of those will be a mystic Serpent counter. Personally, I’m hoping it’s Loki because I think it would be rad if Loki just womped Serpent.

Anyway, I think this is why Kabam didn’t tune Serpent. They saw that his counters do a good job of potatotizing him, and they know something we don’t.
Hate to break it to you but DLL said there will never be another Galan Peni situation, so no, nobody is going to be potatotizing Serpent unless (like Patriot and Negasonic) they have mid damage that's just not viable in BGs unless you're a Gold 3 scrub.
We already have it. Sym Supreme absolutely deletes Serpent. My r4 unascended 6* bullies 7* r3 high sig AW bosses. There’s an itty-bitty baby skill check involved in surviving long enough to get the special cycle going, but once it’s on Serpent gets wrecked. There are other champs in game already who can also do this (Spidey Supreme is another, less commonly thought of counter.)

I’m not saying it’ll be as over the top as Galan/Peni was, but do you really think we aren’t gonna see mystic champs with combinations of buff and power control in the future? That’s literally the mystic class identity, and it’s how power creep works in all live games.

I’m not saying Serpent is going to stop being a potent defender, that’s not Kabam’s goal (again, going back to how Galan and Hulkling just removed Peni from the defensive meta). But there will be more tools in players’ hands to address the problem. And I think that will be sooner rather than later.
No we don't, war is a completely different scenario and you know it. Time doesn't matter in war, and you can use as many boosts as you want.
Go try that in BGs with SymSupre or Spidey Supreme against a r3 awakened Serpent and we'll see if it's really as one sided as you claim, can guarantee you it won't be purely because of time. If it was then damn you should've been in the tournament in Canada since most players who went there are also frustrated with the balance updated and Serpent staying as is.

Chavez has a ton of power control, SymSupreme has a ton of buff control, Rintrah can shut down death immunity. In order to shut down Serpent so he isn't as op you'd need a combination of shutting down death immunity and one of the other two however at that point that would be a hard counter. I really don't see how any of this would work without making it a hard counter.
https://youtu.be/htDUr6cFYgs?si=7XuUp2DQDLCmOg17

Seems like Spidey works pretty well to me 🤷🏻‍♂️
im not believing that you’re killing serpent bosses with a r4 sym supreme until I see a video, if that’s the case you should be masters easily
Funny you should mention that.

I spent a few seasons in Masters but took a step back because I prefer ranking off-meta fun champs (remember, this is a game). Played with a lot of players you’ve probably heard of. I don’t have a YouTube channel of my own, but if you’d like I could send those Sym Supreme videos over Line.
That was nearly 80 seconds you can't be serious.

I can’t take it seriously when people say there are counters and then show like 70 second + takedowns. In upper tiers you’re cooked unless the opponent majorly messes up or they’re also fighting serpent

I see videos posted all the time and it’s 80 seconds with Spidey, 70+ seconds with R3 Wolf, and every other “counter” still takes 60+ seconds guaranteed unless you get lucky with crits with Chavez or something. No other champ in the game can do this and that’s a fact. He’s a guaranteed loss which is too broken

This was probably my best takedown. Still needed to pray that death immunity would fail. Oh and the armors from last GC which majorly helped stack more ruptures

BigBlueOx

So well said I (accidentally) quoted it twice lol. Either way Serpent just isn’t fun; he’s hard but there’s no real sense of “wow I conquered a difficult challenge”, just “I didn’t get completely screwed, just moderately so in a way that didn’t really matter because I still lost”.
This. I don’t understand why they said you can skillfully play around Serpent’s mechanics, when there’s no skill involved

Completely agree, this nonsense about needing skill to beat him. Like holding block during a special is some kind of rarified air. You either draft well and get a bit lucky, or you stress out and get a bit lucky, or you get boned. Most times when serpent is placed on D “if he’s not banned” I just decide that’s gonna need to be the throw round

BigBlueOx

https://youtu.be/WMgQXyRblT0?si=9f4Zts860_OuCgUV

Three good takes, especially KT and Nagase’s. But I want to isolate and really highlight a point Nagase raises. At the highest tiers of the game this is a champ that encourages gamesmanship like use of the pause in BGs to conserve points. We aren’t talking about low end players but the top 500 players in the game pausing rather than managing his inherently unfair design interacting with competitive nodes.

How is that at all good for the health of the game? And how is that “balanced”?

EdisonLaw

https://youtu.be/WMgQXyRblT0?si=9f4Zts860_OuCgUV
Three good takes, especially KT and Nagase’s. But I want to isolate and really highlight a point Nagase raises. At the highest tiers of the game this is a champ that encourages gamesmanship like use of the pause in BGs to conserve points. We aren’t talking about low end players but the top 500 players in the game pausing rather than managing his inherently unfair design interacting with competitive nodes.

How is that at all good for the health of the game? And how is that “balanced”?

Especially last meta where the Extend node made buffs and debuffs last longer

Wicket329

https://youtu.be/WMgQXyRblT0?si=9f4Zts860_OuCgUV
Three good takes, especially KT and Nagase’s. But I want to isolate and really highlight a point Nagase raises. At the highest tiers of the game this is a champ that encourages gamesmanship like use of the pause in BGs to conserve points. We aren’t talking about low end players but the top 500 players in the game pausing rather than managing his inherently unfair design interacting with competitive nodes.

How is that at all good for the health of the game? And how is that “balanced”?

Again, I have to point out that we are having this conversation based on knowledge of the game as it is right now. Kabam, however, makes decisions with knowledge of what the game will look like in the coming days, weeks, and months. In the announcement, they spill a lot of ink on the subject of Serpent’s counters (Sym Supreme, Spidey Supreme, Wiccan, Kushala, etc.), and I think that’s because this was the design intention. I think Serpent is meant to be a champion who demands RPG mechanic counters. I expect we will see more champions who fill this counter role in the near future.

Does that mean they came to the right decision? Not necessarily, no. And if by the end of this year, we don’t see more viable counterplay options against Serpent in competitive modes, I’ll admit that I was wrong and that tuning would have been appropriate. But at this moment, I think Kabam still has something up their sleeves to dial down Serpent’s defensive threat without making adjustments to his kit, and that we’ll be seeing it before the end of the year.

IKON

The crazy thing to me, Serpent is the first champ in mcoc history that I actively avoid in arena. That says it all to me.

Bendy

For me i dont mind nerf or stays same since only war but also i think there plan was to make a non nukeable champ as lets be real nukes are unhealthy hence why herc is unhealthy for the game since he nukes everything serpent being first non nuke defender i think is great since i think plan is to make it so bgs isnt gonna be done in 30 seconds now but ur gonna have to try and chop time down until eventually there is a nukable option u can disagree but i think this isnt as bad as people think and that this is just intended

BigBlueOx

https://youtu.be/WMgQXyRblT0?si=9f4Zts860_OuCgUV
Three good takes, especially KT and Nagase’s. But I want to isolate and really highlight a point Nagase raises. At the highest tiers of the game this is a champ that encourages gamesmanship like use of the pause in BGs to conserve points. We aren’t talking about low end players but the top 500 players in the game pausing rather than managing his inherently unfair design interacting with competitive nodes.

How is that at all good for the health of the game? And how is that “balanced”?
Again, I have to point out that we are having this conversation based on knowledge of the game as it is right now. Kabam, however, makes decisions with knowledge of what the game will look like in the coming days, weeks, and months. In the announcement, they spill a lot of ink on the subject of Serpent’s counters (Sym Supreme, Spidey Supreme, Wiccan, Kushala, etc.), and I think that’s because this was the design intention. I think Serpent is meant to be a champion who demands RPG mechanic counters. I expect we will see more champions who fill this counter role in the near future.

Does that mean they came to the right decision? Not necessarily, no. And if by the end of this year, we don’t see more viable counterplay options against Serpent in competitive modes, I’ll admit that I was wrong and that tuning would have been appropriate. But at this moment, I think Kabam still has something up their sleeves to dial down Serpent’s defensive threat without making adjustments to his kit, and that we’ll be seeing it before the end of the year.

I hope you are right, but even so minor changes could have been made to improve the impact of skilled gameplay in taking him down. Even a perfect Serpent counter we’ve never seen won’t address this pain point, as the same low skilled hold block during specials will likely be part of any “hard” counter they design. (I think another Chavez like power control mechanic is highly unlikely as it’s insanely OP and I bet they would love to nerf it at this stage, so I’m ignoring that).

cscale0725_gmail

I'm absolutely against ANY Champ getting nerfed!! It seems like one of those things that Kascam would abuse!! NERFS ARE FOR NOOBS WHO ARE STILL GETTING BREAST FED BY THEIR MOMMIES 😆 🤣

EdisonLaw

I'm absolutely against ANY Champ getting nerfed!! It seems like one of those things that Kascam would abuse!! NERFS ARE FOR NOOBS WHO ARE STILL GETTING BREAST FED BY THEIR MOMMIES 😆 🤣

So, tell us how to fight him since you’re so smart, nerd

Nemesis_17

I'm absolutely against ANY Champ getting nerfed!! It seems like one of those things that Kascam would abuse!! NERFS ARE FOR NOOBS WHO ARE STILL GETTING BREAST FED BY THEIR MOMMIES 😆 🤣

Uncollected with maxed 5* serpent identified

smdam38

I don’t really play these game modes where it would really become an issue to me. Not the point of my post.

The point is that there are SOOO many saying these things and providing their feedback and it seems absolutely ignored.