“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
So going with your logic then there shouldn't be any worst performing champs because I'm sure that there is a cross-section of players that use a specific champ effectively for every champ in the game. Your logic not mine.
That's a stretch. I said they look at more demographics than the top, and their effort is to try and exclude the poor performing ones based on their findings. The definition of the worst can vary from Player bracket to Player bracket. The data doesn't have an opinion.
Their data mining and interpretation is clearly distorted and inaccurate.
You can look at figures as much as you like, but in the real world the majority of those champs offer little utility and what little utility they offer is outshined by many other champs in the game.
Most are not effective tools, and not even close to being VERY EFFECTIVE tools.
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
Let me re-quote it.
"I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective."
Most of them are definitely NOT among "the most effective". Not even close. His wording is clearly comparing them to other similar tools in the MCOC toolbox (regen, power control, ability accuracy reduction etc...) and most of these champs get significantly outperformed by better performing tools. So they are not among the most effective.
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
Seriously wise of you to ask players who actually play,so you would have real effective options.The only Effective one in AQ or AW Doc Oc. I bet you probably tested these champs and rated it for complicated abiliteies. In fact i think you probably copied a tier list from a big youtuber and decided to permanently leave out omni or god tier champs. My point is it was good thinking to ask actual players unlike employees.
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.
What??? Your living in the past dude.Out of those 18 Beast and Venompool are decent. But cyclops!!!???
“We are using empirical data based on Champion performance in Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars to decide which Champions will be added to the Crystal. This means that while Player perception of the Champions may not always align, we are trying to avoid poor performing Champions...”
“It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.”
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
@DNA3000 I’m not sure how you read these quotes and conclude they intended to only eliminate the champs we think are bad and didn’t intend them to be anything in particular. As for analysis, it’s pretty clear Miike wants to hang his hat on empirical data the team looked at to make their determination.
Also, saying champs are “among the most effective” or “score very high” based on empirical data isn’t just throwing some champs in the pool. A plain reading of these quotes indicates the team was trying to do something other than just weed out some bad champs—so I’m not really sure how you arrived at your alternative conclusion.
Dr. Zola
I agree and want to see something.You will not potentially need to change a little.YOU MUST CHANGE A LOT!!!!
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
Let me re-quote it.
"I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective."
Most of them are definitely NOT among "the most effective". Not even close. His wording is clearly comparing them to other similar tools in the MCOC toolbox (regen, power control, ability accuracy reduction etc...) and most of these champs get significantly outperformed by better performing tools. So they are not among the most effective.
"There is a smaller group of players that use him......"
That's the part you're missing. They're not trying to put the most effective in the Crystal, and they never indicated as much. They're trying not to add the ones that perform the poorest based on their data.
That list you have compiled is your own checklist. There is no indication that those are the areas they are looking at. Which is why they're relying on their own data and not popular opinion. No one demographic is determining what goes into the Crystal. You may personally believe that effectiveness is determined by the top, but that's not what the data collected over all parts of the game and levels of Players necessarily reflects. That's the most effective FOR YOU. There's a difference.
Most is moot because the process is not about including the most effective. It's about avoiding the least.
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
So going with your logic then there shouldn't be any worst performing champs because I'm sure that there is a cross-section of players that use a specific champ effectively for every champ in the game. Your logic not mine.
That's a stretch. I said they look at more demographics than the top, and their effort is to try and exclude the poor performing ones based on their findings. The definition of the worst can vary from Player bracket to Player bracket. The data doesn't have an opinion.
But how can it be a stretch? I'm sure there are groups of players that use every champ effectively. That's what your whole argument is about.
No. That's not what I'm saying. That's a loophole.
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.
“Cyclops scores very high on the list “ hahah .. “there is a smaller group of players use him”.....thanks for answering about cyclops by yourself ..
There’s a reason why only smaller number of people use cyclops
I mean this in the worst of ways. Your team is deluded. In what universe are those champs even semi useful? Tier 20? There is NOBODY in any decent ally using 90% of those champs anywhere but defense (and only a couple for that) let alone **** attack or aq. They are NOT top options. Not a single one is god tier. Pathetic. Open your eyes.
If you are not a fan of the Champions in the Crystal, you can always wait until the Featured Champion you like is added to the Basic Pool, like the 3-Star and 4-Star Champions.
Also, nobody said they are the top Champions, and while player perception of these Champions may differ, these Champions are ones that people use to great success.
Yassss I will beat collector with Antman and cyclops
“I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.”
They are among "the most effective".
Most meaning the top 51%?
If you ask 1000 people what most means they'll probably say top 20% or top 10%.
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
Let me re-quote it.
"I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective."
Most of them are definitely NOT among "the most effective". Not even close. His wording is clearly comparing them to other similar tools in the MCOC toolbox (regen, power control, ability accuracy reduction etc...) and most of these champs get significantly outperformed by better performing tools. So they are not among the most effective.
"There is a smaller group of players that use him......"
That's the part you're missing. They're not trying to put the most effective in the Crystal, and they never indicated as much. They're trying not to add the ones that perform the poorest based on their data.
That list you have compiled is your own checklist. There is no indication that those are the areas they are looking at. Which is why they're relying on their own data and not popular opinion. No one demographic is determining what goes into the Crystal. You may personally believe that effectiveness is determined by the top, but that's not what the data collected over all parts of the game and levels of Players necessarily reflects. That's the most effective FOR YOU. There's a difference.
Most is moot because the process is not about including the most effective. It's about avoiding the least.
Your still ignoring the fact that, while I said that every champ has players that use them effectively, the reverse is true. Every champ has players that use them the least effectively. They might be small numbers but shouldn't they be represented too? I mean what might be the best champs for some players, might be the worst for others and vice versa. So explain how they can collect data on eliminating the poor performing champs, following your theory of a cross-section of demographics, when poor performing is relative to who is using what champ?
There's a difference between using them effectively and preference.
Maybe i missed it but how often does this crystal get "refreshed" ? like how often do the 18 champs get changed?
There will be a New Crystal every 3 Months. This Crystal will feature the 6 newest Champions, and another pool of 18 Champions as the Base Pool.
If you keep cycling the 18 champs, eventually you're going to create a completely STACKED 15K crystal if the next couple are as underwhelming as this one.
Champions will repeat, but will not appear twice in a row.
You're expanding my words to make some sort of non-implied point.
They look at all the data. Not just the top Players. Yes, what you're saying is true, but it has nothing to do with what I said. Technically, I'm sure they could find people who use all Champs "effectively" at different points. That's not the point I'm making.
I said they look at all demographics. Meaning they don't just rely on the data from the Top Tier. You would find that the list of Champs used is very acute. They look at others as well. Most likely on an individual basis. Meaning they look at all Champs, and how they perform among those that use them.
Do I know this for fact? No. I do not have access to their data. Can I see this from various comments and the results in the Crystal? Absolutely.
They're not trying to find the most effective. They're trying to not include the ones that performed the worst, and I suspect those results are the ones they're working on buffing, at least starting with Luke and Rulk.
What you're saying is not what I'm saying. I didn't say they can include any Champ because they can find people who use any Champ effectively. That's contrary to what they have said themselves. Clearly they're looking for the ones not doing so well, and that is among the Players that use them.
We don't know the Champs excluded. The internal statistics are based on game play, not the Forum. I'm talking about comments from the Moderator, and the results of what's included. My theory is that they examined the data from all Champs. Which means they examined all demographics by way of who uses them.
Comments
Among the small number that use him, they use him effectively. Meaning the cross-section that uses him, uses him well. That's the point I was making about a variety of demographics. The Crystal is not aimed at the Top Players, or any specific demographic, really. It's a mixture of all, at least from what I've gathered. It's been explained that the point was not to fill it with the "best", but to avoid the worst performing. There are different levels of Players, and different demographics. A fair cross-section looks at a variety, not just the top.
That's a stretch. I said they look at more demographics than the top, and their effort is to try and exclude the poor performing ones based on their findings. The definition of the worst can vary from Player bracket to Player bracket. The data doesn't have an opinion.
You can look at figures as much as you like, but in the real world the majority of those champs offer little utility and what little utility they offer is outshined by many other champs in the game.
Most are not effective tools, and not even close to being VERY EFFECTIVE tools.
Let me re-quote it.
"I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective."
Most of them are definitely NOT among "the most effective". Not even close. His wording is clearly comparing them to other similar tools in the MCOC toolbox (regen, power control, ability accuracy reduction etc...) and most of these champs get significantly outperformed by better performing tools. So they are not among the most effective.
Seriously wise of you to ask players who actually play,so you would have real effective options.The only Effective one in AQ or AW Doc Oc. I bet you probably tested these champs and rated it for complicated abiliteies. In fact i think you probably copied a tier list from a big youtuber and decided to permanently leave out omni or god tier champs. My point is it was good thinking to ask actual players unlike employees.
What??? Your living in the past dude.Out of those 18 Beast and Venompool are decent. But cyclops!!!???
I agree and want to see something.You will not potentially need to change a little.YOU MUST CHANGE A LOT!!!!
"There is a smaller group of players that use him......"
That's the part you're missing. They're not trying to put the most effective in the Crystal, and they never indicated as much. They're trying not to add the ones that perform the poorest based on their data.
That list you have compiled is your own checklist. There is no indication that those are the areas they are looking at. Which is why they're relying on their own data and not popular opinion. No one demographic is determining what goes into the Crystal. You may personally believe that effectiveness is determined by the top, but that's not what the data collected over all parts of the game and levels of Players necessarily reflects. That's the most effective FOR YOU. There's a difference.
Most is moot because the process is not about including the most effective. It's about avoiding the least.
Good luck with that !
No. That's not what I'm saying. That's a loophole.
“Cyclops scores very high on the list “ hahah .. “there is a smaller group of players use him”.....thanks for answering about cyclops by yourself ..
There’s a reason why only smaller number of people use cyclops
Yassss I will beat collector with Antman and cyclops
There's a difference between using them effectively and preference.
Antman will repeat
They look at all the data. Not just the top Players. Yes, what you're saying is true, but it has nothing to do with what I said. Technically, I'm sure they could find people who use all Champs "effectively" at different points. That's not the point I'm making.
I said they look at all demographics. Meaning they don't just rely on the data from the Top Tier. You would find that the list of Champs used is very acute. They look at others as well. Most likely on an individual basis. Meaning they look at all Champs, and how they perform among those that use them.
Do I know this for fact? No. I do not have access to their data. Can I see this from various comments and the results in the Crystal? Absolutely.
They're not trying to find the most effective. They're trying to not include the ones that performed the worst, and I suspect those results are the ones they're working on buffing, at least starting with Luke and Rulk.
What you're saying is not what I'm saying. I didn't say they can include any Champ because they can find people who use any Champ effectively. That's contrary to what they have said themselves. Clearly they're looking for the ones not doing so well, and that is among the Players that use them.