Summoners Fest Reflections

Now that the dust has settled and we have all had time to sleep, I wanted to share some thoughts about Summoners Fest. This is not an official dev diary, just my own personal reflections.

I’m a pretty big introvert so I find these kinds of events to be very draining, but at the same time I absolutely love them and do everything I can to experience them. It was incredible to see so many friends, and to turn so many unknown faces into new friends. If I didn’t get a chance to meet you, or if I did but you felt like our interaction was rushed, know that I look forward to the next opportunity. For those who took time out of your busy schedules to visit us, thank you.

It was very reassuring to see Summoners excited about the things we have been working on. Things like Coliseum have been an enormous amount of work, and seeing Summoners enjoying that work is very rewarding. I want to thank the entire game team for working so hard to get as much of it in the hands of participants as possible, and I’m very much looking forward to seeing the features we previewed in the game for everyone to try.

Over the course of the four days (I start on Thursday since that was the day people started arriving and the conversations began) Summoners wanted to talk to me about a wide array of things. Many of them like progression, currencies, future game modes and champions were covered on the Live Stream. Beyond that there were five common themes Summoners raised that we didn’t cover in detail. I want to acknowledge them here to demonstrate we aren’t ignoring them.

1. Communication - Summoners told me they want to see more from us on this front. It’s something I do my best to promote but it can be challenging to muster the energy when I know every post I make is going to be met by a litany of angry DMs. Still, it was great to hear that many Summoners are engaging with our team in good faith. The desire for better communication is what inspired me to write this post, and I have a few other ideas for things I may write about in the coming weeks.

2. AI - As I’m sure you would all expect, AI was a hot topic. We had considered doing a session on AI at Summoners Fest, and decided against it because the technical nature wouldn’t be appropriate for the kind of action-packed experience we wanted to deliver. We have made substantial progress on AI 2.0 and the team is working on an update to share with Summoners right now. Know that the game team has communicated to leadership that this is a top priority for Summoners, and thus a top priority for us.

3. Bugs - We had a very rough Q3 when it comes to product quality. Thankfully it seems like that shadow has started to lift, and we absolutely know we need to go further. We have made a commitment to building a better testing and QA process, something we should be able to talk about more in the coming months.

4. Defenders - Summoners believe the meta that has been created by recent defender releases has made the game less enjoyable. This is an active conversation on the game team, and we are working to identify opportunities to mitigate the negative impact these defenders have had. Know that this is absolutely top of mind as we build out the design for Fortress Assault – we do not want its meta to be repetitive fights against these oppressive defenders.

5. Titan Crystal dupes - Finally, many Summoners shared the frustration about max duping champions from the Titan crystal, resulting in a handful of Titan shards. Right now our technology does not know where a dupe comes from. However, we can differentiate the source in data, and so we are exploring a makeshift solution to address this issue before the end of the year.

Again I want to thank all who attended for taking the time out of your busy lives to visit us and provide feedback on the direction of the game. I hope to see even more of you the next time we host an event.

Comments

BlueVanilla

I’m glad to hear summoners were able to voice their concerns personally and they were heard. I’m definitely looking forward to the end of the year but with certain cautious. I think needless to say the team is always looking for the betterment of the contest so it’s really rough when ideas don’t concrete as intended and mistakes or bad things happen. I’m a little sad I missed the fest in person but I’m looking forward to next year and to the end of Q4. Cheers!

Joker1976

appreciate the update and communication,.,especially being a big introvert (completely the opposite of what i am),.. props to you because it must not be easy.

CheeseMaster482

Oh boy, can't wait for the AI 2.0 feins to start complaining again

Anotherconcernplayer

Hi @Kabam Crashed ,

While I would of love to come to the Summer Fest, being in the other side of the world and real life commitment, as well as finance damage, it was not possible.

Howevee your candid post and communication are always much appreciated.

I think open communication (even when it is not agreeable) are always more helpful. I really hope more Kabam team would come and open up with the community.

Share with us some of the insight and even challenges that the Kabam try to work through.

Understand the honest challenges the team are facing or trying to overcome would enable the community to be more emphatic and connect with Kabam team, we all part of this eco and all want MCoC to do well.

phillgreen

It annoys me that you have to put up with abuse just for doing your job and that it might affect your willingness to be as open and transparent as you might like.

It's possible to disagree or question things without being a flog.

To the flogs I ask this: if it was your parent/partner/child that was treated this way, how would you feel?

I appreciate what you do Crashed, even when I don't like it.

SandeepS

Lovely post. Well written and puts the points across well. It's one of the reasons I enjoy what you write, that and the responses to 'I don't deserve a ban for …' posts.

Darkness275

Thanks man, really looking forward to hearing more about these points and learning as further details are shared.

TheUglyone123

Hearing a Kabam employee address some of these things, especially defender strength and the AI is extremely encouraging. This whole post actually calling these things out specifically, is great. Thank you for everything you do Crashed! I’m looking forward to see how y’all will be tackling these things

SirGamesBond

Cool!!!

unknown

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KDoggg2017

Just here to put a 5 Star Review in Kabam Crashed's comment box 📦.

This is what good communication looks like. Looking forward to future information!

ahmynuts

xenchief

Thx Crashed. Always appreciate your candidness.

DNA3000

It was Crashed who introduced me to @Volatility on Sunday. I’m pretty sure Crashed was high on a lot of people’s list of devs to ~~corner~~ discuss the game with over the weekend. Volatility, by the way, very nice person to chat with. I’m not sure how eloquent I was by then, in retrospect I would love to sit down and chat with her for an hour without all the background noise and my brain functioning properly.

In person, people seemed to be a lot more civil in their discourse. Whether that’s because people are naturally more civil in person or because the trolls couldn’t afford bus fare to get to Vancouver, who can say.

In all of my conversations with devs, it was clear they are keenly aware of the same problems the playerbase cares about. The thing that is difficult to fully convey at times, and this is something I myself discussed with a few people, is that the full context of these problems is often large, complex, and not always fully disclosable. Bugs are bugs, and server crashes are server crashes, but many of the things the devs do that seem to have serious issues or side effects are happening to solve other problems. You can’t say “we do this because the alternative would be a lot worse” because that’s an unsatisfying and sometimes inciteful answer, but it is often the truth. It is much easier to assume the devs just don’t get it, but I think that’s much more difficult when you actually have a chance to speak to them face to face and you see they understand and empathize with the same issues you do, understand the fine points and pain points of those issues, and talk about how they are trying to address those things internally.

Every solution contains its own problems. There needs to be a balance between pointing out those problems - because they will always be there and it is important to let the devs know which ones are the priority pain points - and understanding that many problems come from things that can’t just be reversed, they have to evolve into things that avoid those problems. Which will, of course, create new problems. That is the cycle of games like this.

That balance is to be frank rarely seen here. But it was on full display at the Fest, as far as I could see. Having that balance be something that thousands can be a part of, rather than just hundreds, has always been a fanciful dream of mine.

TruthComic

W start. Let's keep it going!

VanillaCoke

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2898661#Comment_2898661

I appreciate what you’re saying, but I will say this in regards to the AI: if Crashed and every other developer knew how horrendous the AI is, why are you incorporating nodes that are AI reliant? For example, in BGs the current GC meta is Intercept. Last time I checked, you need some heavy AI cooperation to succeed in that. Yet, despite the state of AI, this node was still incorporated. It does not make sense.

I’m not saying developing AI 2.0 is easy by any means, but when you know AI is bad, you should not actively develop or add AI reliant nodes/mechanics/etc.

DNA3000

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2898683#Comment_2898683

I often feel the same way, viscerally. However, logically, the problem there is that on the one hand, most players don’t experience AI issues most of the time. But if you black list all node combinations that the AI could interfere with for anyone at any time, you’ve watered down the difficulty of the game dramatically. How many players are you going to lose because the game looks like Monopoly, and because all AI-affecting difficulty is gone (and thus the problem will become much more invisible) most players won’t even fully appreciate why.

Difficulty is not a thing where too high is bad but there’s no such thing as too low. Every notch upward costs players. Every notch downward also costs players. And it is extremely difficult to know how many of each until you actually do it. And then, of course, its generally too late to get them back.

Speaking about BG and GC specifically. First of all, GC is less than 10% of the playerbase. And really, most of GC’s competition level the AI doesn’t factor it. Yes, people lose matches due to uncooperative AI, but few players placement dramatically depends on it. It’s a problem for both sides, and thus in a sense it is a relatively “fair” problem. It only really matters in certain specific corner cases where one side can be said to be much more strongly affected by it than the other side, and in fairness terms that’s a small percentage of that 10% of players. Even in battlegrounds specifically, the AI issue is difficult to work around without creating other issues. Can you come up with meta after meta after meta that doesn’t fall into the many pitfalls people complain about, like being too random, or too focused on nukes, or too overwhelmingly advantageous for certain roster picks, or too homogeneous, and also avoids AI dependencies?

In other words, to go back to my original point. We both agree metas that rely upon AI behaviors the players cannot skillfully anticipate or control is intrinsically bad. But can you solve that problem without creating or uncovering several other problems equally bad? I suspect we could sit down and come up with such things that would satisfy our own judgment. But unfortunately, there’s all those other players who aren’t going to agree with us, and making only two players happy is not going to be a winning formula for the devs.

Mikes_mom

All crystal dupes should be addressed the same way.

jdschw

The fundamental shame of social media is that reasonable people tend to be quiet and unreasonable people tend to be loud, even though they are much fewer in number.

I think i can speak for a large, quiet fraction of the playerbase when i say your posts are always appreciated, @Kabam Crashed . It's obvious to us how much you care about this game and this community and how much work you put into both.

FirstAvenger

Most people here care about the game, and when things get frustrating it’s easy for discussions to spiral. Communication, AI, defenders, bugs … these are real pressure points for players. Thanks for addressing them directly, @Kabam Crashed. It makes it easier for the community to stay constructive when we know what’s actually happening behind the scenes.

P.S. I really wish I could have been at Summoners Fest, but traveling over 16,000 km, plus the costs involved, would make it a big undertaking. Hopefully one day.

Cdub5071

@Kabam Crashed Great post, but honest question, why should anyone believe you actually will do something about it. There are countless posts on this forum about all of those issues.

1. Communication - this has been an issue since 12.0, and nothing has improved. The twitch live stream quickly brushes past any issue the community is having at that time if it addresses at all. It then usually goes on about all of the exciting things you will be selling us. Just in the last few months you have had at least two long posts about doing better, but no communication on what you are doing to "do better", at least none that you could be held accountable for, just empty words about you hearing us. We have heard that for 10 years, when do we get to hear about how you are addressing the issues. Why should you believe you will do better?

2. AI - countless posts over the AI, several responses saying you hear us. No post on what is being done to fix it for years now. Why should we believe you will be doing anything about it?

3. Defenders - There have been countless posts, two in the last month with 5-8 pages of comments from Youtubers pointing out how bad the situation is without a reply from Kabam at all. How can we trust that you have heard anything that we are saying when your last big announcement ended the the balancing program so you didnt have to address a defender, dark phoenix, the community felt needed to be nerfed, right after you nerfed one we didnt want changed in Spiderwoman.

4. Titan Crystal dupes - Has been an issue ever since the Titan Crystal came out, you have never addressed it our even acknowledged it, but now we are to believe you heard us? Why should we believe you?

I am not trying to be a jerk, but I think its crazy that anyone could applaud this post when its the exact same thing we have seen countless times over the years. We get, "we hear you," but we never get a follow up and you never address it again. So honest question, why should anyone believe you hear us at all?

GroundedWisdom

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Crashed. Grateful for the feedback.