the modok lab is not worth it

unnecessary rewards, to great difficulties with bad and super unfair us, even throwing the dice to reverse, should make this laboratory more reasonable or increase the rewards, this event is getting useless.

Comments

DNA3000

SomeoneElse wrote: »

One estimate said that it would take a year to get enough resources to rank up one 6 star champion. A YEAR!!! That is a design failure. Who wants to spend an entire year leveling up one champion? Even worse, the 6 stars will make our 4 stars obsolete eventually, so all the time we have spent leveling those up will be thrown out the window.

That's actually exactly the way it ought to be. All progression games have to manage moving targets: the players today advance, while newer players start from scratch. Every player perceives progressing in the game, but the playerbase as a whole doesn't progress nearly as quickly. You have very fast players reaching the end of the game, a lot of moderate players in the middle, and a constant influx of new players, and you have to balance all of their interests simultaneously with the same game.

As a result, a good design will always introduce the strongest player collectibles at extremely high cost initially. This acts to slow down the relative advancement of the top players relative to the median player and gives them something to do. For them, its not going to take a year or years to advance these things, but it will take them a lot of energy to do so. Meanwhile, over time those very same things will slowly get cheaper and easier to get. So the exact same 6* champion that extracts a ton of effort for the top players to upgrade will take less effort for the next 10% of players to upgrade behind them (because resources will become more readily available) and then eventually after a long period of time the most casual players will catch up and it will be easy for even they to acquire and upgrade them.

The exact same thing happened with 5* champions. They were initially very hard to get and extremely expensive to upgrade. But today they are much easier to acquire and significantly easier to upgrade (bottlenecks notwithstanding). Soon even very casual players will start to accumulate and rank up significant rosters of 5* champions. The same content, but targeted at different tiers of players in the same game over time.

This creates the ideal progression environment for F2P games: spending time and money doesn't get you to anywhere everyone else can't get to, it just gets you there quicker. People pay (in time and money) to be *first* not to be *the only*. That's what makes the game as fair as possible to spenders and not spenders, large gametime players and less gametime players. Everyone gets there eventually, but those that can spend more can get there quicker.

This isn't design failure, this is the target everyone aims for and what most successful games strive to hit.

Dukie5021

Love the lab. Events/quests that cost no energy, no gold, no anything and give rewards will always get a thumbs up from me. Thanks kabam, keep em coming!

NikoBravo

I think its well worth the minimum effort. 0 energy used. Basically free shards.

Dexman1349

LoPresti wrote: »

I didn't miss a single Trial last month, but I'm already burned out on Modoks lab after 3 days. I'm just gonna pretend like this event is not even here, it's better for my health.

This.

And the timing of the events (every 12 hrs) means that players have less flexibility with when they need to log in.

I really liked the Trials. Modok's lab is too much. It honestly feels like an Uncollected monthly quest run twice a day, and starting to not be worth the effort.

Deadbyrd9

Newer players should be be able to complete all difficulties of content that gets released. That’s why there are 4 difficulties of this event. If you can’t do expert then do the rest and build up your roster for the next time it comes around. If you aren’t active enough to hit the quest twice in one day then oh well. This game rewards those that can put in more time. I don’t seee what the problem is with this event

Mr_Otter

I like to think of it as AQ/AW practice. Just to do all the experts I’m dipping into my C team slightly for utility abilities.

If you can’t handle expert (be it roster or skill or hard enemies) then do your best and practice. I’m designated Dormammu killer in Map5 between SL and Voodoo both Duped 4*s. I have to complete my lines with only X23 and only use the others if I mess up in which case Voodoo is next in line to preserve SL for Dorm. I have to be ready to play cool under pressure and while I have failed 2 Expert already I’ve still gained probably close to 2k shards by now.

Rerolls are cheap for gold and I use them a fair amount. If you can’t handle expert then try your hardest and I hope you can get easy enemies but also be happy that hard WILL net you 2.8k 5* shards and a little over 2 full 4* to help fatten your roster a bit.

TL;DR Expert requires expert skill and roster. If you can’t handle it then use it as a learning tool and stick to hard to get 4*s

DNA3000

Mr_Otter wrote: »

I like to think of it as AQ/AW practice.

I've actually been thinking of it as 5.3 and 5.4 practice. I could do those whenever I want, but I would rather try to sharpen my skills enough to do them without spending anything (or at least no units or cash).

Mr_Otter

DNA3000 wrote: »

Mr_Otter wrote: »

I like to think of it as AQ/AW practice.

I've actually been thinking of it as 5.3 and 5.4 practice. I could do those whenever I want, but I would rather try to sharpen my skills enough to do them without spending anything (or at least no units or cash).

Practice is practice. Bottom line it keeps you on your toes and there is never gonna be a perfect team or you’ll forget about a champ or 2 on that line and you’ll have to get by Mordo without Drax or Iceman without Sabertooth (when released) or when you HAVE to fight MODOK in uncollected. It’s probably gonna be ugly but it’s gotta be done

ContestOfNoobs

I already 100% 5.4
became a legend twice

and modok lab is easy for me..

so unless you have progress as far as me or other people in the end game community

1. you lack the roster I have close to 50 5* NOT counting my dupes.
2. maybe ur just not skilled enough? Seatin FTP account already became uncollected AND did 1 full run of act5 in less than what? 7 months?

New players nowadays just want all the rewards, it just goes to show u haven't progress.

Spurgeon14

My main issue is how much easier this event was 3 months ago where you could get 750 5* shards a day. It is significantly harder now and the rewards are significantly worse. They progressed in difficulty but digressed in rewards which lessens the incentive to do the event. I know I don't have to do it and most of the Expert ones I'm not due to the time/reward return.

gohard123

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

I already 100% 5.4
became a legend twice

and modok lab is easy for me..

so unless you have progress as far as me or other people in the end game community

1. you lack the roster I have close to 50 5* NOT counting my dupes.
2. maybe ur just not skilled enough? Seatin FTP account already became uncollected AND did 1 full run of act5 in less than what? 7 months?

New players nowadays just want all the rewards, it just goes to show u haven't progress.

exactly this. Don't understand why people feel entitled to the rewards.

BitterSteel

Spurgeo14 wrote: »

My main issue is how much easier this event was 3 months ago where you could get 750 5* shards a day. It is significantly harder now and the rewards are significantly worse. They progressed in difficulty but digressed in rewards which lessens the incentive to do the event. I know I don't have to do it and most of the Expert ones I'm not due to the time/reward return.

I see your point and why it feels like that. But overall it’s still over a whole 5* crystal in a month from one place. I don’t think of it that the rewards have decreased per se, I think of it as they are more in line with what you’re doing for the rewards.

LoPresti

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

I already 100% 5.4
became a legend twice

and modok lab is easy for me..

so unless you have progress as far as me or other people in the end game community

1. you lack the roster I have close to 50 5* NOT counting my dupes.
2. maybe ur just not skilled enough? Seatin FTP account already became uncollected AND did 1 full run of act5 in less than what? 7 months?

New players nowadays just want all the rewards, it just goes to show u haven't progress.

I have 100% act 5, Done Lab, and still Modoks Lab is not worth it for me. It's not hard, it's just too time consuming. The trials were amazing. 3 quick fights, once a day. Sure I'll do that. Modok's Lab is just too much, it's not fun.

Idontinkso

FREE , 0 movement. Need your A team or a deep roster.

Part of my previous feedback to the game was to include more random node effects, makes for some interesting fights from champs you normally can take out easily.

Modoks is good for quick mission or beatdown if you don't read the effects or if you don't bring the right kind of champs.

Theres too many different things in the game to do everything 100%, got to pick your battles wisely.

Jaffacaked

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LoPresti wrote: »

DaMunk wrote: »

Just do what you can for free rewards.

The rewards are not 'free', you pay with your time.

This is what happens often on here. People raise valid concerns and offer their feedback, and it's brushed off as if people aren't skilled enough and want Rewards handed to them. Only many are skilled enough and still have an issue with the amount the difficulty has increased because it's too far for an Event of this type. The bottom line is people who have no issue with it want to discredit those who do. Not all concerns of difficulty are coming because people aren't equipped or don't want to apply themselves. It's amped up a bit too much for an Event you do every 12 hours for a month. Just because there are a few who breeze through it doesn't mean the feedback is any less valid. Everytime someone has a concern about the challenge level, there's always a committee that acts like people just aren't good enough. It's just belittling.

So I’m not allowed to disagree and question your feedback?

In that case, I don’t like the labyrinth of legends because it’s too difficult and the rewards aren’t in proportion to my effort. It’s not fair and the difficulty should be reduced so I can complete each fight in 100 hits. If you don’t like my feedback then you aren’t allowed to tell me my roster isn’t good enough or I need to improve my skills.

. At this point you're just arguing for the sake of being contradictory.

And you’re not?

Not at all. People are expressing their views, and it's not just one or two. There have been quite a few comments and Posts where people have said the same thing. You're not just disagreeing that it's not worth the effort. You're also putting that point of view down by saying people aren't good enough and they want Rewards handed to them. If you had expressed that you don't agree, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead you're criticizing the feedback that people are sharing based on your own judgments.
"Nothing to see here people. Bitter doesn't have a problem with it. There's no problem. Everyone just needs to get better and stop whining."
-.-

That's exactly what you do in like almost every thread your in

xNig

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

I already 100% 5.4
became a legend twice

and modok lab is easy for me..

so unless you have progress as far as me or other people in the end game community

1. you lack the roster I have close to 50 5* NOT counting my dupes.
2. maybe ur just not skilled enough? Seatin FTP account already became uncollected AND did 1 full run of act5 in less than what? 7 months?

New players nowadays just want all the rewards, it just goes to show u haven't progress.

Agreed.

If they aren't ready for the quest, they aren't ready for the rewards.

Loremaster101

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

@GroundedWisdom I don't disagree with you on one level. It's obviously an issue for many, though I suspect that people who find it much too hard are probably more likely to post, so the perception that it is overwhelmingly an issue may be somewhat skewed. Most of these quests don't have T2 alpha frags and 400 5* shards per day though. Not everyone can get them easily and some that can't feel that they should be able to. Doesn't feel like a real issue. If you can't do this one there will be others.

Nah, even Dorky Dave made a video to try to help people out, it can be really frustrating if you don't have the right characters, or are not familiar with all the buffs, for instance, there is Caltrops, which if you use Bleed immune your fine, there's another that's similar, but does %dmg when you dash back, confuse the two and it's a Wipe..

It's a lot of STRESS, is what it is, someone forgot this is supposed to be a game...

A_Noob_Is1

Ok, the OP doesn't think it's worth it. It's his/her opinion so let him/her be. Also, not every new player thinks that they are entitled to rewards.

DiablosUltimate

The mode is fun but the rewards are not worth my time. When they first announced it Im pretty sure it was mentioned that rewards will be better than original modok lab but they are exactly the same, whats up with that?

Deadbyrd9

They aren’t the same. They increased the 5* shards in heroic by 25 lol

theshiznit05

The 6 fights are wayyy to long, especially when at least half have rehabilitation powers. Kabam got it right with the wakanda trail, Modok is just too long.

Deadbyrd9

You also get better rewards than trials. I feel like most people don’t get that you can get about half of a t2 alpha from this over the course of the event. More time and more rewards are worth it to me. It takes me about 5 minutes to do expert and then I autofight the rest afterwards

GroundedWisdom

It's not about the Rewards so much as it is the degree of challenge level for a Daily Event. Realistically, you could increase the Rewards and justify making it harder infinitely, but the more it increases, the less motivating it becomes to do every 12 hours. It's time-sensitive, so it's not really something you can build up for.
To be clear, I'm not saying it's terribly difficult. It's just a tad extra. My feedback is that these types of Events have a threshold that make them require more effort than is productive. The majority of people aren't saying they can't do it. It's that the effort it takes every 12 hours is a bit too much. Really doesn't matter what the Rewards are. People are burning out. Now, some find it easy. That's fine. The point that some of us are trying to make is that it's been increased a bit too much. Not that it needs to be nerfed to the point of being a cakewalk.

DarkestDestroyer

GbSarkar wrote: »

I like how some people keep throwing the word "easy" around when it's clearly not for a lot of players (which is also the reason why this thread was created)

Well play the first 3 difficulty’s then...

Just because the 5* shards are in the last run through doesn’t mean all the player base should be able to go in and take advantage.

You can always reroll the nodes too and make it much easier, they don’t even have much health.

Yes it is tricky, but majority of the time it’s simple, especially being able to change the nodes to your advantage.

But just because the good rewards are there doesn’t mean everyone is entitled to them, you have to go and earn them.

MattScott

I like the lab a lot. Easy to do for me. No energy requirements, so i usually do all 4, just because. You get about 15k gold twice a day, which is also nice. And they say it’s 50/50 but i have been getting sig stones almost exclusively.

NastyEfnNate

No one is making anyone do it. If u don’t like it then pass this one up. It’s as easy as that. I do it for the t2a and hope for a 5* sig crystal. The 5* shards are just a bonus

MattScott

NastyEfnNate wrote: »

No one is making anyone do it. If u don’t like it then pass this one up. It’s as easy as that. I do it for the t2a and hope for a 5* sig crystal. The 5* shards are just a bonus

1/2 a t2a if you do every single one. Bigger for me are those sig stones. I’ve gotten about 12 already.

DNA3000

Loremaster101 wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

@GroundedWisdom I don't disagree with you on one level. It's obviously an issue for many, though I suspect that people who find it much too hard are probably more likely to post, so the perception that it is overwhelmingly an issue may be somewhat skewed. Most of these quests don't have T2 alpha frags and 400 5* shards per day though. Not everyone can get them easily and some that can't feel that they should be able to. Doesn't feel like a real issue. If you can't do this one there will be others.

Nah, even Dorky Dave made a video to try to help people out, it can be really frustrating if you don't have the right characters, or are not familiar with all the buffs, for instance, there is Caltrops, which if you use Bleed immune your fine, there's another that's similar, but does %dmg when you dash back, confuse the two and it's a Wipe..

It's a lot of STRESS, is what it is, someone forgot this is supposed to be a game...

You can say that about every game. Something that requires skill might require more skill than you possess. Something that has rewards in it you might not win. If there is no skill involved and no challenge involved then it is a past time, not a game. In every game, there is the possibility of losing. No one likes to lose, but if it is only a game if you win, then maybe games are not your thing.

Sometimes a game does include more stress on its players than it needs to for a given game design. But that's highly subjective, and just saying that it is stressful for one's self ergo the game is broken is intrinsically missing the context of a multiplayer game. Single player games can be customized to your taste. Multiplayer games cannot. If the game is too stressful for you, the game might be wrong for you, but it is more likely you are wrong for the game.

SomeoneElse

DNA3000 wrote: »

SomeoneElse wrote: »

One estimate said that it would take a year to get enough resources to rank up one 6 star champion. A YEAR!!! That is a design failure. Who wants to spend an entire year leveling up one champion? Even worse, the 6 stars will make our 4 stars obsolete eventually, so all the time we have spent leveling those up will be thrown out the window.

That's actually exactly the way it ought to be. All progression games have to manage moving targets: the players today advance, while newer players start from scratch. Every player perceives progressing in the game, but the playerbase as a whole doesn't progress nearly as quickly. You have very fast players reaching the end of the game, a lot of moderate players in the middle, and a constant influx of new players, and you have to balance all of their interests simultaneously with the same game.

As a result, a good design will always introduce the strongest player collectibles at extremely high cost initially. This acts to slow down the relative advancement of the top players relative to the median player and gives them something to do. For them, its not going to take a year or years to advance these things, but it will take them a lot of energy to do so. Meanwhile, over time those very same things will slowly get cheaper and easier to get. So the exact same 6* champion that extracts a ton of effort for the top players to upgrade will take less effort for the next 10% of players to upgrade behind them (because resources will become more readily available) and then eventually after a long period of time the most casual players will catch up and it will be easy for even they to acquire and upgrade them.

The exact same thing happened with 5* champions. They were initially very hard to get and extremely expensive to upgrade. But today they are much easier to acquire and significantly easier to upgrade (bottlenecks notwithstanding). Soon even very casual players will start to accumulate and rank up significant rosters of 5* champions. The same content, but targeted at different tiers of players in the same game over time.

This creates the ideal progression environment for F2P games: spending time and money doesn't get you to anywhere everyone else can't get to, it just gets you there quicker. People pay (in time and money) to be *first* not to be *the only*. That's what makes the game as fair as possible to spenders and not spenders, large gametime players and less gametime players. Everyone gets there eventually, but those that can spend more can get there quicker.

This isn't design failure, this is the target everyone aims for and what most successful games strive to hit.

What you are describing is not how this game works at all. You also conveniently left out the part where I said that people wanted a challenge that rewarded them for their effort, which is how normal game progression works. That is not what this game does. The 1 year estimate is presumably for end game players because you need to be at least Uncollected to earn the resources required to level up 6 star champions. If an end game player needs a year to level up one single champion (and most of the current 6 stars aren't worth leveling up that high anyway) then most players are years away from having one 6 star worth playing. Forget about duping them too, which most of the current 6 stars need to be to be good.

There is no natural progression to this game. Finishing one act will not give you the champions or skills to progress to the next one. The speed at which you progress through this game has more to do with luck than with skill. If you are lucky enough to open a god-tier champion, the game will automatically become much easier for you. That is not to say that skill is not a factor, but it takes a back seat to the RNG factor that saturates this game.

The way they are attempting to draw out the lifetime of this game is with pseudo-progression. It doesn't take a good player a long time to earn high champions because the content is more challenging or because there are so many quests to complete. It takes a long time because they starve us of resources, which includes energy to play, catalysts, and gold. I have some really great champions that are sitting in a useless state because it takes too long to earn the resources to upgrade them to a playable level. How is that fun or challenging? How is does that make me feel like I am progressing through a game?

I see two big detractors in the design of this game as far as how the players can progress and how the content is being made more challenging. MODOK Lab is a perfect example of both. The only way they seem to be able to make challenging content is to either add ridiculous randomness to it or to add inescapable damage, like the Icy Phoenix debacle. MODOK Lab has both of these. I have finished Expert mode a few times, but most of the time I just give up because my rerolls keep giving me 100% health loss from bleeds, poisons or degens. I guess I am supposed to have a team of 5 immune champs. It doesn't matter if it costs no energy. It isn't worth my time. On top of that, the rewards aren't that great. Doing these challenges aren't going to help me progress through the game very much, even if I had time to do them all, which nobody with a real life has time to do.

SomeoneElse

gohard123 wrote: »

ContestOfNoobs wrote: »

I already 100% 5.4
became a legend twice

and modok lab is easy for me..

so unless you have progress as far as me or other people in the end game community

1. you lack the roster I have close to 50 5* NOT counting my dupes.
2. maybe ur just not skilled enough? Seatin FTP account already became uncollected AND did 1 full run of act5 in less than what? 7 months?

New players nowadays just want all the rewards, it just goes to show u haven't progress.

exactly this. Don't understand why people feel entitled to the rewards.

That is an overstatement. And why else would you play these quests if they didn't give you rewards? Isn't that the whole point?

There are certainly players who will complain almost no matter what they get. But I think the majority of complaints are that the rewards aren't on par with the difficulty of the challenges. Players want challenging content that gives good rewards after all the effort. The feeling of satisfaction is why we play these games.