Kabam dropping the hammer, and it feels soooooo good.

13

Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    insaneglee wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Asmodeyus wrote: »
    So I'm actually curious, and really would like to know an answer to this. "HOW" do you know the cheating is going on. For example, did you strike a logarithm somewhere that didn't it? IP altering? I get the 'what' they're looking for, I'm just curious as to HOW it's being discovered. The main reason I ask is because, what stops anyone from saying Player 1 is cheating, Player 465 is cheating, etc. In all honestly it just looks like accusing with no proof. Is any 'Proof' being submitted to the alliance leaders?

    I'm not sure why you would assume there's no proof just because you are not aware of the technical details of detecting piloting. I'm assuming you are not aware of the technical details because you mention "IP altering" which is not really a thing, but also because IP addresses are not involved in detecting piloting. If you gave your login details to your friend and he literally came over to your house and used your internet, if he logged into your account on his smartphone that is detectable as piloting. IP addresses are essentially irrelevant.

    @DNA3000 I have no idea how any of this works so I'm really just asking. How could they know in your scenario that you didn't just have two accounts that you used different devices for and then decided the hell with it and logged in to your alternate account from the other device?
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Asmodeyus wrote: »
    So I'm actually curious, and really would like to know an answer to this. "HOW" do you know the cheating is going on. For example, did you strike a logarithm somewhere that didn't it? IP altering? I get the 'what' they're looking for, I'm just curious as to HOW it's being discovered. The main reason I ask is because, what stops anyone from saying Player 1 is cheating, Player 465 is cheating, etc. In all honestly it just looks like accusing with no proof. Is any 'Proof' being submitted to the alliance leaders?

    I'm not sure why you would assume there's no proof just because you are not aware of the technical details of detecting piloting. I'm assuming you are not aware of the technical details because you mention "IP altering" which is not really a thing, but also because IP addresses are not involved in detecting piloting. If you gave your login details to your friend and he literally came over to your house and used your internet, if he logged into your account on his smartphone that is detectable as piloting. IP addresses are essentially irrelevant.

    It’s not the first time you mentioned this and I’ve been meaning to pm you about it. My boyfriend and I both have one account (technically I have two but I haven’t used the second one in over a year, I just get logged into it after some crashes, maybe once a month). We both have the game on one device (used to be two, but we both removed it from our phones). He on a tablet, me on an ipad. Sometimes one of us is out of battery, we’re out for dinner and only brought one device (he has data on it, I only have wifi acces) and sometimes there is an android or apple exclusive deal that makes us use each others devices. We device share a lot. I also use his tablet data a lot when he turns on his hotspot. We don’t account share. I’ve never been afraid to get flagged for account sharing because we don’t, but we do share devices a lot and with what you’re saying, that might get flagged. Could you elaborate a bit more about how this works?

    Going to reply to both simultaneously. I do not know precisely how Kabam does this, but I can say how I would do this. Also, because I don't think it is appropriate to discuss openly I won't be overly specific, because describing how I would discover cheating specifically could cause cheaters to specifically attempt to avoid that detection method. But what seems safe to assert is that it is always possible for Kabam or any other mobile app developer to track when a particular login is used on a particular device. It is therefore possible to detect when a login is used on a different device than it normally does.

    Imagine making a database of every mobile device Kabam's servers ever see log into the game. For each such device, log which user accounts are logging into that device. Most of the time, each device entry will have one login that ever appears - these are people who have one account and one phone. Sometimes you will see two logins on that device, or more, and those logins never show up anywhere else. That's the guy with multiple accounts and one phone. Sometimes you will see multiple accounts on a couple devices. That's two accounts used by someone with a phone and a tablet, say. Every use case shows up as a pattern

    Two accounts logging in consistently on two devices might be two people each with one account, sometimes using each other's devices. Or it could be one person with two accounts and two devices. But it is unlikely to be piloting. Piloting "looks different" when you analyze the map of all logins and all devices. That difference generates signatures that can be detected when you look at the usage map over enough time.

    Sometimes IP addresses and other factors can add additional information to the picture, but usually only to confirm or rule out a potential detection that has already been made by direct traffic analysis. IP addresses and other environmental information will never hang you, or exonerate you.

    Again: this is how I would do it in broad strokes. I presume Kabam is doing something like this, but I have no such inside information. Also, the precise details of how I would do this and what specific information I would look at is something that can be used to defeat those detection methods, so I don't think it is a good idea to share them.

    Again, they are not checking the IP of yours device. If they did my alliance would be not penalized.

    I created all my accounts and never shared them.

    Maybe they are just checking login in one or more devices.

    So. My advice is avoid use more than one account on the same or other use the same in different device on this week/month.

    I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me or just randomly quoting me. But I've repeatedly stated that IP address is not used to detect account sharing. I mention IP address above for technical reasons having to do with how traffic analysis of this type works. If you are unaware of those technical details, then that means nothing to you, or probably means the wrong thing to you. It is just there so on the off chance someone who does this type of analysis happens to be reading, they aren't tempted to add a correction that would only complicate the discussion. All you should take from the above is: "IP addresses and other environmental information will never hang you, or exonerate you." Having different IP addresses doesn't prove the logins come from different places, and having the same IP address doesn't prove the logins come from the same place. On their own, IP addresses prove nothing.

    I have multiple accounts and multiple devices. Kabam has stated that even some developers do as well. I doubt they implemented account sharing techniques that would tag their own developers, and I'm personally not afraid of being false-positive detected as well. Maybe your situation was wildly unique: I doubt many people have thirty accounts being run simultaneously. Maybe you tripped a "this can't be normal" trigger because the person managing the analysis didn't account for that possibility. But I think that's an edge case that most players don't have to worry about.
  • insanegleeinsaneglee Posts: 39
    insaneglee wrote: »

    Again, they are not checking the IP of yours device. If they did my alliance would be not penalized.

    I created all my accounts and never shared them.

    Maybe they are just checking login in one or more devices.

    How many email addresses are associated with your 30 accounts?

    30 email of course. And 28 are almost look the same, just change a final number. So kabam also doesn’t check the emails.

  • insanegleeinsaneglee Posts: 39
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or disagreeing with me or just randomly quoting me. But I've repeatedly stated that IP address is not used to detect account sharing. I mention IP address above for technical reasons having to do with how traffic analysis of this type works. If you are unaware of those technical details, then that means nothing to you, or probably means the wrong thing to you. It is just there so on the off chance someone who does this type of analysis happens to be reading, they aren't tempted to add a correction that would only complicate the discussion. All you should take from the above is: "IP addresses and other environmental information will never hang you, or exonerate you." Having different IP addresses doesn't prove the logins come from different places, and having the same IP address doesn't prove the logins come from the same place. On their own, IP addresses prove nothing.

    I have multiple accounts and multiple devices. Kabam has stated that even some developers do as well. I doubt they implemented account sharing techniques that would tag their own developers, and I'm personally not afraid of being false-positive detected as well. Maybe your situation was wildly unique: I doubt many people have thirty accounts being run simultaneously. Maybe you tripped a "this can't be normal" trigger because the person managing the analysis didn't account for that possibility. But I think that's an edge case that most players don't have to worry about.

    I am not disagreeing with you, jut reporting Whats happened with me.

    I think that I quoted more randoomly, like the rgn phc algorithm
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    insaneglee wrote: »
    insaneglee wrote: »

    Again, they are not checking the IP of yours device. If they did my alliance would be not penalized.

    I created all my accounts and never shared them.

    Maybe they are just checking login in one or more devices.

    How many email addresses are associated with your 30 accounts?

    30 email of course. And 28 are almost look the same, just change a final number. So kabam also doesn’t check the emails.

    I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't check the emails." What email is registered to which account should have no effect on account sharing detection. If you're saying that Kabam should assume that if thirty accounts are registered to similar email addresses then they should assume those accounts are never piloted, that doesn't seem logical. That would mean that if thirty people wanted to pilot each other in an alliance they could create accounts with email addresses similar to what you used and then pilot each other with impunity. That's an exploitable defect in account sharing detection.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,730 ★★★★★
    insaneglee wrote: »
    [

    30 email of course. And 28 are almost look the same, just change a final number. So kabam also doesn’t check the emails.

    @insaneglee If you created all 30 of your accounts, the only way one of your accounts being penalized makes sense would be if you hired a “mercenary” to play it. I’m not accusing you of doing this. From my point of view I can’t think another reason one your accounts would be penalized. As @DNA3000 explained, it is easy for Kabam to tell the difference between account sharing and players using their own account(s) from multiple devices.

    I’m not an officer anymore, but when I used to recruit there were times when players had strong accounts but lacked the skills to use them. In many of these instances players had paid a mercenary to finish game content for them. Becoming Uncollected was a popular choice because for a time having an “Uncollected” title was one way of gauging players’ skills. Other reasons players seek out mercenaries include paying them to earn a “Legebds” title and grinding arena for them because they don’t have the time to grind arena themselves.

    I don’t think there’s enough time in a day for one person to manage 30 accounts, but I’ve been wrong before. That would give 45-50 mins to play each account per day if you played for 24 hours without a break. If you have not given any of your 30 accounts’ information to other people to play your accounts for any reason, I would file a support ticket to see if you could determine why any of your accounts have been penalized.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
  • AsmodeyusAsmodeyus Posts: 218
    edited May 2018
    Not to get off on the main topic, IP thing was just an example without trying to dive into super details, or specifics. Just giving examples. If your phone is broken you can't use a friends? I mean, that's pretty broad. How can you prove that? Here's another example, how about device sharing, not account sharing? Roommates, Couples, friends from work, school, etc. There is such a thing as damaged devices, power drains, broken chargers, etc. There's a plethora of things that can be going on. It just seems, to put it bluntly, the absolute stupidest policy that has been put into effect with no proof given to the leaders of alliances that are being affected.

    I guess I am horrible at wording these things but to put my thoughts as bluntly as possible, unless you're hijacking the selfie cam and using it, there is absolutely NO way to tell a different person is on a different account. If there is another way, please tell me, seriously.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
  • insanegleeinsaneglee Posts: 39
    insaneglee wrote: »
    [

    30 email of course. And 28 are almost look the same, just change a final number. So kabam also doesn’t check the emails.

    @insaneglee If you created all 30 of your accounts, the only way one of your accounts being penalized makes sense would be if you hired a “mercenary” to play it. I’m not accusing you of doing this. From my point of view I can’t think another reason one your accounts would be penalized. As @DNA3000 explained, it is easy for Kabam to tell the difference between account sharing and players using their own account(s) from multiple devices.

    I’m not an officer anymore, but when I used to recruit there were times when players had strong accounts but lacked the skills to use them. In many of these instances players had paid a mercenary to finish game content for them. Becoming Uncollected was a popular choice because for a time having an “Uncollected” title was one way of gauging players’ skills. Other reasons players seek out mercenaries include paying them to earn a “Legebds” title and grinding arena for them because they don’t have the time to grind arena themselves.

    I don’t think there’s enough time in a day for one person to manage 30 accounts, but I’ve been wrong before. That would give 45-50 mins to play each account per day if you played for 24 hours without a break. If you have not given any of your 30 accounts’ information to other people to play your accounts for any reason, I would file a support ticket to see if you could determine why any of your accounts have been penalized.

    I have much more free time now playing with 30 accounts than I play serious with just 1 account and much less stress.

    That could sound strange, but I just do EQ with my stronger account and play 2 group m1 in AQ one day and AW.
    Aw in 3-4 hours (1h 3x per day) is enough to run 3 groups and close to 100% all maps in AW if you are not playing AQ or another stuff.

    Arena I stop almost completely. Actually I was really tired with the game, because they are affecting my job and social life.

    Again, I never shared any of my accounts.

    I already send a ticket and the support just sucks, but I will still trying till I got some diferent reaction. Because the modders still saying that not problema with diferents accounts in diferents devices but the support just not confirmed.
    In the last time I send a picture of all my ipad, IPhone, lg, and moto Lenovo that I always use in my accounts and I waiting for some response.

    Again, since I started play with those accounts, I stopped to progress fast with my strongest,but you would be surprise with how fast my weeks noobs accounts be progress in the game just playing AW and one day of m1 in AQ (and just using and opening crystals/itens when really necessary)
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Id say all accounts in an alliance being mode by one device put up a red flag.

    I also, don't understand why anyone would go to their friends house and play on their friends device. Unless they have a better device and you are doing a legend run.
  • charaderdude2charaderdude2 Posts: 1,529 ★★★
    Ya boi Riegel back at it again with another thread that's got lots of attention!
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Ya boi Riegel back at it again with another thread that's got lots of attention!

    When I make threads, they go platinum 1.

  • charaderdude2charaderdude2 Posts: 1,529 ★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Ya boi Riegel back at it again with another thread that's got lots of attention!

    When I make threads, they go platinum 1.

    Only Platinum 1?
  • insanegleeinsaneglee Posts: 39
    The response of the support is that they are make analysis of my problem, but It were a lot of similar complaining of the other alliances and they can’t do anything now. :/
  • Namo10Namo10 Posts: 28
    Well tbh it doesn't feel as if Kabam is dropping any hammer on anyone anymore...literally nothing has happened. Yea they dropped some points off the cheating alliances...congratulations well done as the regulator you took 'action'...alliance that was cheated against? just scratching our heads as to what to do? email kabam? receive a robot response...post on the forums? thread gets shut...PM mods here? NO RESPONSE...

    the one ultimate response from the one and only @Kabam Miike and I quote,

    'we cannot be sure that if no violations had occurred, your alliance would have won that war'

    With this logic, Earth is flat and screw Galileo, let's hang him...
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Namo10 wrote: »
    Well tbh it doesn't feel as if Kabam is dropping any hammer on anyone anymore...literally nothing has happened. Yea they dropped some points off the cheating alliances...congratulations well done as the regulator you took 'action'...alliance that was cheated against? just scratching our heads as to what to do? email kabam? receive a robot response...post on the forums? thread gets shut...PM mods here? NO RESPONSE...

    the one ultimate response from the one and only @Kabam Miike and I quote,

    'we cannot be sure that if no violations had occurred, your alliance would have won that war'

    With this logic, Earth is flat and screw Galileo, let's hang him...

    Make a thread, don't mention / call out any alliances. Reply to that thread as much as possible to keep it visible.

    I'm 100% with you that you should get the 350,000 points for each war you lost to a cheating alliance. I will help you in anyway I can. If an alliance cheated, the win (victory bonus) should by default go to the alliance that didn't cheat regardless of any other scores (ie: deaths, exploration, etc...)
  • DL864DL864 Posts: 626 ★★★
    It’s a little to late. Bottom line there was an alliance that was straight up modding they were reported numerous times with video evidence. What did kabam do absolutely nothing. As a matter a fact they let them get the season rewards and play the game until season 2 started then they dropped them down and ether suspended or banned a lot of their members including their leader. That’s great but why did it take so long you let them continue to cheat and by doing that you were essentially punishing other alliances that had to play them. I’m sorry but I have never played a game where cheating was so obvious and it took so long for the situation to be rectified. Piloting Is one thing but modding should be an immediate ban. So I don’t feel so good about kabam dropping any hammer now these issues of piloting and molders account sharing has been brought up multiple times before aw seasons started yet it was ignored or not that big of an issue in their eyes. I truly believe kabams stance is reactive instead of proactive.Thats just my 2 cents on the whole situation take it as it is.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
    thats why you also check mac add and IMEI, having same ip add gives you the benefit of the doubt. its a process and not a one step thing like you say. like you said earlier if a friends goes to your house and he logs in your account, that is account sharing, but if you log in to your account using his device, its not account sharing. How can kabam be sure if what really happened?

    how can you punish someone if you are unsure. like they say its better to let 10 guilty free than punish 1 innocent.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.

    and if you assume the pilot uses vpn , so the original owner uses vpn too to have the same ip of the pilot? or is the pilot gonna use different vpn for different player? lets say he is pilotting a member from italy, he gonna use an ip from italy? then he logs in to a member from canada? is he gonna use an ip from canada? or are they all just gonna use the same vpn? if so.. how about new members who just joined... will they expect him to use same vpn even before joining the alliance as well?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
    thats why you also check mac add and IMEI, having same ip add gives you the benefit of the doubt. its a process and not a one step thing like you say. like you said earlier if a friends goes to your house and he logs in your account, that is account sharing, but if you log in to your account using his device, its not account sharing. How can kabam be sure if what really happened?

    how can you punish someone if you are unsure.

    You shouldn't. But it is possible to be sure with high degree of confidence. I've done this type of analysis before, so I know how I would do it. And I can state with authority that in this situation IP address is untrustworthy, and therefore of extremely limited value.

    To be candid, I know how this works, so I'm offering the benefit of my expertise. But I'm not in any way involved with catching MCOC account sharers and I have no specific compulsion to correct other peoples wild guesses on how this works. If you think it is impossible to be sure, or if you think Kabam is looking at things I doubt they are placing a lot of weight upon, that's entirely your prerogative.
  • X_ScottX_Scott Posts: 635 ★★★
    Need to spread some HAMMER to this guy! He beat LOL 100% but cant solo a line in tier 9 war?
    n8t0rjxmlocq.jpg
  • X_ScottX_Scott Posts: 635 ★★★
    5aq4u1jeg7ez.jpg
  • X_ScottX_Scott Posts: 635 ★★★
    1 single cheater in an alliance ruins the whole thing. It ruins war, the rankings, everything. I don't understand why its fun for someone to not achieve something on their own. And since that's the way they wanna roll, it screws legit players. Kabam needs to keep the heat on. Can't disinfect the wound with cold mayonnaise. Shut up. I'm not a doctor, I don't know how medicine works.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
    thats why you also check mac add and IMEI, having same ip add gives you the benefit of the doubt. its a process and not a one step thing like you say. like you said earlier if a friends goes to your house and he logs in your account, that is account sharing, but if you log in to your account using his device, its not account sharing. How can kabam be sure if what really happened?

    how can you punish someone if you are unsure.

    You shouldn't. But it is possible to be sure with high degree of confidence. I've done this type of analysis before, so I know how I would do it. And I can state with authority that in this situation IP address is untrustworthy, and therefore of extremely limited value.

    To be candid, I know how this works, so I'm offering the benefit of my expertise. But I'm not in any way involved with catching MCOC account sharers and I have no specific compulsion to correct other peoples wild guesses on how this works. If you think it is impossible to be sure, or if you think Kabam is looking at things I doubt they are placing a lot of weight upon, that's entirely your prerogative.
    lol kabam can tell whose fingers are touching the device?
    and the vpn thing if you are so expert at it, how would you do it? you said if the pilot have brains which i assume they do, will all members use same vpn or just the pilot use vpn to match the ip of the members?
    you seem to be expert only at being vague lol why not enlighten us with your brilliance lol the devil is in the details after all.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,910 Guardian
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
    thats why you also check mac add and IMEI, having same ip add gives you the benefit of the doubt. its a process and not a one step thing like you say. like you said earlier if a friends goes to your house and he logs in your account, that is account sharing, but if you log in to your account using his device, its not account sharing. How can kabam be sure if what really happened?

    how can you punish someone if you are unsure.

    You shouldn't. But it is possible to be sure with high degree of confidence. I've done this type of analysis before, so I know how I would do it. And I can state with authority that in this situation IP address is untrustworthy, and therefore of extremely limited value.

    To be candid, I know how this works, so I'm offering the benefit of my expertise. But I'm not in any way involved with catching MCOC account sharers and I have no specific compulsion to correct other peoples wild guesses on how this works. If you think it is impossible to be sure, or if you think Kabam is looking at things I doubt they are placing a lot of weight upon, that's entirely your prerogative.
    lol kabam can tell whose fingers are touching the device?
    and the vpn thing if you are so expert at it, how would you do it? you said if the pilot have brains which i assume they do, will all members use same vpn or just the pilot use vpn to match the ip of the members?
    you seem to be expert only at being vague lol why not enlighten us with your brilliance lol the devil is in the details after all.

    As I said, there are limits to the details I'm prepared to discuss, but I've given enough details for people with sufficient technical knowledge to understand what I'm saying. Just the words "traffic analysis" answers your question for people who know how to do that. For people that don't, Google is your friend. Beyond that, if you think you can goad me into discussing more details than I'm prepared to, better than you have tried better than you.
  • BUNGALNGALBUNGALNGAL Posts: 110
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    BUNGALNGAL wrote: »
    @DNA3000 so what you mean is if I log in to a friend's device using my account and I play on his device using my own account is considered account sharing? coz if a friend comes to my house, how would kabam know who is playing on his device?

    That is not considered account sharing. How you would go about telling the difference is a complicated analysis question.
    this is why checking ip address too is important rather than just relying on mac address and IMEI.

    IP address proves nothing. We could be sitting side by side and have radically different IP addresses for a variety of reasons. Conversely, if Kabam concluded that two logins with the same IP address can't be pilots because those accounts are in the same place then every pilot with a brain would VPN to the account holder's internet router and appear as their IP address. This capability exists for anyone that owns a cheapo $20 internet router.

    There are very specific, very limited circumstances in which I would consider routeable non-RFC1918 addresses significant as a part of this kind of analysis. 99% of the time I presume that information is more likely to be misleading than illustrative.
    thats why you also check mac add and IMEI, having same ip add gives you the benefit of the doubt. its a process and not a one step thing like you say. like you said earlier if a friends goes to your house and he logs in your account, that is account sharing, but if you log in to your account using his device, its not account sharing. How can kabam be sure if what really happened?

    how can you punish someone if you are unsure.

    You shouldn't. But it is possible to be sure with high degree of confidence. I've done this type of analysis before, so I know how I would do it. And I can state with authority that in this situation IP address is untrustworthy, and therefore of extremely limited value.

    To be candid, I know how this works, so I'm offering the benefit of my expertise. But I'm not in any way involved with catching MCOC account sharers and I have no specific compulsion to correct other peoples wild guesses on how this works. If you think it is impossible to be sure, or if you think Kabam is looking at things I doubt they are placing a lot of weight upon, that's entirely your prerogative.
    lol kabam can tell whose fingers are touching the device?
    and the vpn thing if you are so expert at it, how would you do it? you said if the pilot have brains which i assume they do, will all members use same vpn or just the pilot use vpn to match the ip of the members?
    you seem to be expert only at being vague lol why not enlighten us with your brilliance lol the devil is in the details after all.

    As I said, there are limits to the details I'm prepared to discuss, but I've given enough details for people with sufficient technical knowledge to understand what I'm saying. Just the words "traffic analysis" answers your question for people who know how to do that. For people that don't, Google is your friend. Beyond that, if you think you can goad me into discussing more details than I'm prepared to, better than you have tried better than you.
    lol you are the one who talked about VPN yet you cannot answer a simple question? truth is your logic is flawed lol. nobody here claims they know how kabam does it, only you with your so called expertise. I do not need to google cause i never claimed i know nor do i want to know. im asking you cause it will only show how dumb you really are.

  • L3pa_DL3pa_D Posts: 41
    I think if people are piloting or any cheating in AW Kabam should perma ban them from participating in any AW in any alliance they join thereafter like arena cheaters that way alliances aren’t penalised unknowingly by them cheating.
  • L3pa_DL3pa_D Posts: 41
    ... well I’m hoping arena cheaters are getting perma bans rather then temp bans for arena when caught.
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