v18.1 Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Version 18.1 is scheduled for release on Monday, June 4th! Head over to our change log to find out what is coming your way!

Comments

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that Wolf was mistaken.
Months ago we were given incorrect info, and that's understandable.

The issue is that this change came out of the blue, and up to this point no one ever corrected the info.
the fact that this change was implemented without informing the players beforehand is the problem everyone complains about

How is this different than any other bug fix? They let us know when a resolution is being pushed.

i'm not sure what you mean here. let me try again:

for months, kabam knew this was a bug.
during all these months, they had planned to fix it.
during all these months, they knew the playerbase understood this bug as being "working as intended".
during all these months, they never bothered to correct the information.

that last part is the real problem. not the fact that we were misinformed, but the fact that they knew it and fixed the bug without correcting the misinformation

We can't say what they were and were not aware of, simply because we can't speak for them. Also, the people responsible for fixing said bugs aren't responsible for moderating the Forum, perse. They may check the section, but I doubt they are in the business of clarifying Threads. This has become more blown up than is necessary. Miscommunication does not imply months of careless deceit. Honestly, people get a charge out of any mistake made.

Yes, we can. Miike talks about it becoming progressively more and more of a problem in different game modes. They didn't just decide to "fix" this last week. Obviously they knew what they told us and didn't correct it until the fix was in place. You're way off this time bro.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Sirnoob2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Shrugged off, what do you propose? It was a bug, a Moderator apologized for the miscommuncation, and it's being resolved. I don't see much room for anything else. The way I see it, people have been benefitting from an unintended bug for months, so there really is no need for some sort of compensation. What more could be said? They can't really do much else.

hey we messed up where working on improving our way comuncating with u guys in the future we understand ur frustrations and will get back to u with the results of our work

any statement like this would atleast show they care and
acknowledge that there current system is messed up and that there working on improving it instead we get dead silence

It wasn't even noticed until now. Probably because they can't keep track of every Thread on a mental basis. They're doing a job. Which means they're focused on their responsibilities. After hundreds a day, you couldn't expect me to recall every word from months ago. There's a whole lack of understanding and compassion going on here. We expect perfection and we become righteously indignant when something slips through the cracks. Ever have a bad day? Ever lose track of something? Ever get focused on something else and lose your place?
Come on now.

It wasn't just a random comment made by a Mod. It was an answer to a question in "bugs and known issues" which they not only answered but resolved and closed the thread by marking it "not a bug."

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/251553#Comment_251553

Maat1985

phillgreen wrote: »

People are entitled to make mistakes, it's how you deal with those mistakes that shows integrity.

Integrity would be either letting the player base know as soon as a mistake is discovered or allowing people to have time to process the results of the error along with a fairly heartfelt apology for an obvious screwup.

This decision lacks integrity no matter how its spun.

phillgreen wrote: »

So we are to believe that Wolf either:

A: Checked with design team and posted that AA was working as intended.
B: Failed to check with whoever is supposed to be consulted and as a result posted incorrect information.

I prefer C: We need to change it for whatever reason but we won't tell anyone until the last minute.

All three of those options are to the detriment of the players as of 18.1 and there is no way that this decision was not known well before the patchnote release.

There is another option which is most likely...

Wolf took it to the team... they gave him an answer he misunderstood.
He then posted as what he thought was correct.

Meanwhile the dev team worked behind the scenes to fix the bug.

Nownthe bug team have said hey we have a fix for that AA bug you told us about months ago....
The mods said... bug??? I thought ther was no bug???...
ah **** looks like we made an error....

GroundedWisdom

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

phillgreen wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

It's pretty clear AA is not intended to Stun through Immunity.

Was this "pretty clear" to you prior to Wolf's post in January or after?

It was pretty clear to me all along. Nothing about AA's breakdown would enable him to Stun through Debuff Immunity.

So you believed he was bugged after the announcement that he wasn't? 100% chance to stun isn't something in his description? Gotta say I'm not buying it lol.

Buy what you like. I never gave it a second thought. TBH, I never even realized it existed until now. Wasn't explicitly looking for it.

LeNoirFaineant

You didn't know it existed until now and never gave it a second thought but you knew he was bugged all along? Hmmm....

GroundedWisdom

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

You didn't know it existed until now and never gave it a second thought but you knew he was bugged all along? Hmmm....

I knew all along that he shouldn't be able to Stun through Immunity, that much is logical. Hence I know it's a bug. Perhaps if this community was a little less focused on the wording of comments, we could have a discussion about the actual issue, rather than who said what and who didn't say what. At this point, we're debating comments and not changes.

LeNoirFaineant

We aren’t debating wording of comments. We are discussing Kabam’s abysmal handling of the misinformation we were given.

Mr_Platypus

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

You didn't know it existed until now and never gave it a second thought but you knew he was bugged all along? Hmmm....

I knew all along that he shouldn't be able to Stun through Immunity, that much is logical. Hence I know it's a bug. Perhaps if this community was a little less focused on the wording of comments, we could have a discussion about the actual issue, rather than who said what and who didn't say what. At this point, we're debating comments and not changes.

Maybe if you didn’t have to force your opinion on every. Single. Person in this forum we could have a reasonable debate but instead you try and act all-knowing while frowning upon those that don’t share your view.

GroundedWisdom

Kabam is not an entity. One person made a comment that was mistaken, that was dug up from 6 months ago, and here we are still dragging it out about how "abysmal" they handled it. If that isn't an exaggeration, I'll eat my hat.

GroundedWisdom

Mr_Platypus wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

You didn't know it existed until now and never gave it a second thought but you knew he was bugged all along? Hmmm....

I knew all along that he shouldn't be able to Stun through Immunity, that much is logical. Hence I know it's a bug. Perhaps if this community was a little less focused on the wording of comments, we could have a discussion about the actual issue, rather than who said what and who didn't say what. At this point, we're debating comments and not changes.

Maybe if you didn’t have to force your opinion on every. Single. Person in this forum we could have a reasonable debate but instead you try and act all-knowing while frowning upon those that don’t share your view.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I'm expressing my viewpoint. I don't have to agree, and I don't demand people share my view.

Losspik

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

I'm sorry but this is rubbish, I personally took up my AA to 5/65 to use him for 100% LOL the stun from neurotoxin makes a huge difference in LOL with extremely limited opportunities for stuns.

This was Confirmed months ago in a thread that it was NOT a bug as such I took the companies feedback as gospel, I'm now left with a champion @ 5/65 that will not perform as intended for the specific content I ranked him up for.

Rank down tickets SHOULD be given out for anyone with an AA at 5/65 at minimum, I would suggest you issue 5* AA only RDTs as it only effects those who intended to do LOL with him.

LeNoirFaineant

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kabam is not an entity. One person made a comment that was mistaken, that was dug up from 6 months ago, and here we are still dragging it out about how "abysmal" they handled it. If that isn't an exaggeration, I'll eat my hat.

Lmao. There is a section of the forum for reporting bugs. Someone reported it. An employee of Kabam whose job it is to do this sort of thing checked on it with the game team, came back and labeled it as “not a bug.” This isn’t “one person making a comment.” You have a not willing to be wrong thing that needs attention.

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Pcc880

So you’ve known all along he was bugged and just let people believe he wasn’t?

Didn’t you guys also sell the archangel featured grandmaster crystals (death seed crystal) shortly after saying he wasn’t bugged?

People will have spent money and used resources based on your bad information.

Primmer79

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

You didn't know it existed until now and never gave it a second thought but you knew he was bugged all along? Hmmm....

I knew all along that he shouldn't be able to Stun through Immunity, that much is logical. Hence I know it's a bug. Perhaps if this community was a little less focused on the wording of comments, we could have a discussion about the actual issue, rather than who said what and who didn't say what. At this point, we're debating comments and not changes.

Except.... I said "Let's say" to try and convey that I don't believe it, but let's talk your viewpoint and instead of countering it, you harped on let's say and its not really a let's say moment. get out of here with wanting to talk about the issue.

RagamugginGunner

This just sets the precedent that Kabam can change any champ, say it was a bug and mistake from a mod, and nerf champs w/o compensation. Just wait until Blade shutting down nodes is a "bug" in a few months. That'll cripple the game.

RagamugginGunner

Pcc880 wrote: »

So you’ve known all along he was bugged and just let people believe he wasn’t?

Didn’t you guys also sell the archangel featured grandmaster crystals (death seed crystal) shortly after saying he wasn’t bugged?

People will have spent money and used resources based on your bad information.

Yes they did. I bought an Odin to get him from his FGMs. Used my 5.4 generic on him and brought him to r4.

They gave me information on the champ. Sold me that champ. Told me that originally information was "wrong". Told be to deal with it.

Just terrible.

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Onmix

@GroundedWisdom I personally disagree with every single thing you've said.
But I'm not gonna clug up this thread on account of that. Nor am I going to attack you personally.

I'm gonna just say 1 thing and share my POV.

They CAN make mistakes. They ARE humans. This doesn't mean that their mistake can go unpunished or without retribution. If it was my company I'd acknowledge the mistake but wouldn't act over my costumers. I'd give them something to remind them I still care about them and that I want to keep them as costumers. Even if I'm not planning on changing my ways, I need to devise a strategy to keep the costumer happy.
Even if the miscommunication was ok (which it isn't) we should get something that shows there are consequences to mistakes. Even if they are little mistakes (which this isn't).
They just need to act a little humble towards us, and that's it. Maybe this means RDT maybe it doesn't. I don't care what it is as long as it is SOMETHING.

vrto

Teh_gulla wrote: »

vrto wrote: »

Before anyone else spends their time, effort and money on ranking and powering up Blade, can someone officially please clarify if the fact he overrides nodes (e.g. Danger Sense making him bleed/poison immune on nodes inflicting such debuffs), sort of Archangel’s “bug” reversal, is also considered a bug now?

Nothing stopping them now, right?

I don’t want to go in that direction, there were 2 mistakes done in this AA affair besides the original misinformation, which was bad but hey we are all humans. Honestly I am just trying to avoid that same happens with “not logical” Blade node override abilities, cause the community investment on Blade is on a very different scale:

1. We should have been informed right away when AA toxin stun overriding stun/debuff immune was considered a bug and scheduled to be fixed, so everyone was aware of such change before investing on him. Devs know (or should have know) this was a major attack ability change.

2. Due to the official “not a bug” label, wrongly set or not, this indeed is an ability nerf “post-buy” and owners should have the chance to revert their investment. Such mistake should imply some sort of refund and AFAIK 12.0 Rank down tickets (refunding gold too) were developed for this.

IMHO Blade abilities are much more design restricting that AA toxin stun and if something is going to be done regarding that we better know it ASAP.

Legendsend

Gore wrote: »

@Kabam Miike I need to understand 2 things from your post and please clear me on this
Now if I fight with AA against Black Panther Civil after neurotoxins expire I get stunned cause that’s BP civil ability ?

Regarding Agent Venom Tenacity read closely AA abilities
Passive: AA Ability Accuracy can not be decreased by his opponents abilities

That in particular means that after a neurotoxin expire AA 100% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds can’t be shut down

So please be very explicit on this part cause I want to know if my rank 5 5* Archangel becomes **** now after I invested all I’ve got with hard work in him to help me pass some events or nodes more easy.

Facts!!!!! Was pretty sure his ability accuracy should not be able to be lowered

DrZola

Since the game team appears reluctant to wade back into the miasma that is the rationale for the AA "fix," would it be too much to ask for the game team to come on and explain precisely how the neurotoxin/stun mechanic is supposed to work, with reference to specific matchups? In another thread, Miike commented that

"since Black Panther's Reflect Stun should only activate if a Stun is activated during contact (you're attacking him, or he's attacking you like in a parry), it should only happen in very minor cases, like if you attack when the stun from Neurotoxin is activating. This is also something that we are looking at for the future, as it might not be something that we want to keep, since it's not technically a Stun that is being activated by the hit."

What do we make of all this? Is this a moving target? How do we square AA's irresistible force ("ability accuracy cannot be decreased by his opponents' abilities") with something like the immoveable object that is CWBP's stun reflect? What about other champs' ability accuracy when met with AA's abilities? Do they still work the same way or do some of them now bypass AA's ability? What attributes does the game team want to keep/discard? When will we know? Where will it be disclosed?

Not trying to make light. Miike and Wolf are the ones who threw all of this into the blender. Someone official (read: not a know-it-all forums denizen) needs to sort it all out.

Dr. Zola

Kabam Miike

Gore wrote: »

@Kabam Miike I need to understand 2 things from your post and please clear me on this
Now if I fight with AA against Black Panther Civil after neurotoxins expire I get stunned cause that’s BP civil ability ?

Regarding Agent Venom Tenacity read closely AA abilities
Passive: AA Ability Accuracy can not be decreased by his opponents abilities

That in particular means that after a neurotoxin expire AA 100% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds can’t be shut down

So please be very explicit on this part cause I want to know if my rank 5 5* Archangel becomes **** now after I invested all I’ve got with hard work in him to help me pass some events or nodes more easy.

If the Neurotoxin expires on Black Panther (Civil War) and causes a Stun while you are attacking him, it can reflect the Stun back to you. This is still a rare occurence.

Agent Venom's Tenacity gives him a chance to shrug off the Stun from the Neurotoxin. So, he would still become stunned, but then might tenacity it away, like he does with every stun. This is not a reduction to anybody's ability accuracy.

Carmel1

If you knew this is bug (even tho we asked and you said it doesn't) and you knew it's a question of time and priorities until you get it fix, why didn't you say anything? don't you think the players should know?
Why didn't you put anything in the "BUGS AND KNOWN ISSUES > known issues" thread?
we must know this things, especially with many champs that their description is already confusing.

can you create a new "sticky" thread with all the champs that has a confirmed bug?
for example:
Drax first medium hit against evade, is it a bug?
The way blade and danger sense interact with poison\bleed\other nodes, is it a bug?

Blitzkilla420

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Gore wrote: »

@Kabam Miike I need to understand 2 things from your post and please clear me on this
Now if I fight with AA against Black Panther Civil after neurotoxins expire I get stunned cause that’s BP civil ability ?

Regarding Agent Venom Tenacity read closely AA abilities
Passive: AA Ability Accuracy can not be decreased by his opponents abilities

That in particular means that after a neurotoxin expire AA 100% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds can’t be shut down

So please be very explicit on this part cause I want to know if my rank 5 5* Archangel becomes **** now after I invested all I’ve got with hard work in him to help me pass some events or nodes more easy.

If the Neurotoxin expires on Black Panther (Civil War) and causes a Stun while you are attacking him, it can reflect the Stun back to you. This is still a rare occurence.

Agent Venom's Tenacity gives him a chance to shrug off the Stun from the Neurotoxin. So, he would still become stunned, but then might tenacity it away, like he does with every stun. This is not a reduction to anybody's ability accuracy.

So if aa got an adjustment then can others get some too like the old Champs that are useless like spider Gwen, ant man, Iron patriot, and such then?

Some ppl are not happy about the AA "nerf" cause of misinformation given by a kabam employee that should know better and check with his superiors before telling ppl it's working as intended.
This would offset the negativity caused kabam wolfs mistake of giving us bad information

Thnx

LastEmperor

Rank down tickets ? @Kabam Miike
Its tiring that champions are always being downgraded after much time/money and resources have been spent. This needs to stop - im really hoping for rank down tickets to whoever has ranked 4/5 him.

GroundedWisdom

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

mum_m2

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

all you do is repeat what's already been spoken by kabam and others. and in this case you're missing the big picture.

Not many people would rank down AA for this. again it's not about that so stop making it about his abilities. it's about all the other abilities working as intended that they'll one day decide to bug fix. it's a nerf because the community forum mod told us it's working as intended. which means, they just made their forums 100% useless to get accurate information from or they just don't care and do what they want. the entire community is outraged in that what is supposed to be the best source of our information is no longer reliable and dependable. then everyone fears that our champions that we invest money and time into will see the same fate as AA, no matter how small of a change it is.

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GroundedWisdom

mum_m2 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

They're not giving Tickets for it, it's already been addressed. For that matter, it's not a change to his inherent functioning, much less a major one. It's a fix.
Besides that, if people only used him for that one reason and would Rank him down because of the change, I would suggest they get to know his uses more. AA is highly effective, regardless if his Stun counts as a Debuff or not. That is pretty obvious.

all you do is repeat what's already been spoken by kabam and others. and in this case you're missing the big picture.

Not many people would rank down AA for this. again it's not about that so stop making it about his abilities. it's about all the other abilities working as intended that they'll one day decide to bug fix. it's a nerf because the community forum mod told us it's working as intended. which means, they just made their forums 100% useless to get accurate information from or they just don't care and do what they want. the entire community is outraged in that what is supposed to be the best source of our information is no longer reliable and dependable. then everyone fears that our champions that we invest money and time into will see the same fate as AA, no matter how small of a change it is.

What you're doing is compounding my response, which was directed at the topic of Tickets brought up, and trying to create a precendent based on dramatics. If you want to see in terms of absolutes and think that all trust is lost, be my guest. I will still see it as a mistaken comment.