Upcoming Changes to Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity - Discussion Thread

17810121323

Comments

  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    My 2 cents on the topic:

    While it's true that no inherent changes were made to any individual Mystic Champs, it's easy to see based on the reactions here that more than a few people ranked up Mystic Champions with the Mystic Dispersion mastery in mind. I'd even argue that the only way to make Dr. Strange viable as an attacker in any game mode is to have Mystic Dispersion equipped. The relationship between Mystic Dispersion and the Mystic Class has been around far too long to ignore.

    That said, I'd say overall this change is a positive one. Mystic Dispersion was around well before Alliance Wars started and it served as a nice boost to Mystic Champions. Your enemies only had the Dexterity mastery if you were in the arena, but those fights weren't noded, so a player was on equal footing, more or less. Then Alliance War came along and the interaction between Mystic Dispersion and Dexterity became a problem for fairly obvious reasons. This interaction was the primary contributor to the concept of "Mystic Wars" as they were known. Many suggestions were made to change this interaction (including suggestions closely mimicking the one that will go live soon) but no action was taken...for years. People began ranking these Mystic Champs for defense purposes.

    Kabam did notice a problem and they were slowly working to eliminate the Mystic Wars stigma. First they implemented Defender Diversity. Then Blade was introduced. Now more powerful non-mystic defenders are being added to the contest coupled with the fact that it's been nearly a year since the last Mystic champ was added. Mystic Wars are no longer an issue the way they were a year ago. But with this newest change, there are a few champs who are losing the only thing that made them a viable defense option.

    I'd say the hardest-hit champs are Juggernaut and Unstoppable Colossus. Both have very easy specials to Dodge. The challenge came when their Unstoppable Buff was triggered. This usually forced you to evade or parry until it was over. If you chose to evade, you'd feed their power meter, making them more likely to become unstoppable again. When this change is implemented, baiting out their specials won't be a problem and they should never get to an L3. Both have pretty nice health and defense stats, but those stats are quickly eclipsed by the abilities and movesets of the newer champs. With the exception of the benefit of diversity points, Juggernaut and Unstoppable Colossus will no longer be good defenders once this change takes affect. As attackers or questers, Unstoppable Colossus has some utility as he's bleed immune, but Juggernaut is not a strong offensive champion and is thus losing the last of his utility with this change. In these two cases, I'd say champion-specific rank down tickets are warranted.

    My only 4* Mystic champ at 5/50 is Dormammu. My only 5* Mystic Champ at 3/45 or above is Dormammu at 4/55, around sig 100. I used a generic awakening gem on him. I haven't regretted it. I still don't. When the beta was announced, I removed Mystic Dispersion and left 4/55 Dormammu on Defense for the entirety of season 3. He was still averaging 1-2 kills per war. This was down from 2-3 per war during Season 2, but still more than most of my other defenders. We finished Tier 2, Platinum 2 in season 3. On offense, I prefer to not have Mystic Dispersion on Dormammu. It gives me greater control over his specials and I never accidentally get thrust into an L3 when L2 is his bread and butter. My experience is that this change doesn't have a drastic effect on how viable a champ Dormammu is. I'll let others discuss champs like Magik and Mephisto who are other popular Mystic defenders. I'll just say that I ran into them very infrequently during season 3 and never had a problem getting them down without taking an L3.

    I think this change does warrant at least champion-specific rank down tickets (for Juggernaut and Unstoppable Colossus) and at most a mystic-specific rank down ticket for a single mystic champion. I will say that if I received a single mystic-specific rank-down ticket, I wouldn't use it. I've been happy with Dormammu without Mystic Dispersion. But people have ranked up a few champs based on interactions that have existed for years that are not viable without those interactions. When those interactions are changed, whether the change is to the mastery or the champ, a rank down ticket should be offered.

    I'll also say Kudos to Kabam for the way they're handling the reimbursement for the change to Mystic Dispersion. Having this reasonable solution locked and loaded to go along with the announcement was a nice change of pace and I hope to see more of this behavior in the future.
  • RazorEdge49RazorEdge49 Posts: 14
    What about the mastery stones that I used in MD? I’m at 4/5 in MD and if I decide not to use the new version and use them in another mastery will I still have them?
  • JimmyBJimmyB Posts: 163
    @Kabam Miike will we be able to adjust md during the 6 day trial period? That way we can see the differences between lvl 1 and lvl 5. So we can decide weather or not we want to reinvest into higher lvls of the new md.
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,521 ★★★★★
    @Mirage_Turtle : That was one of the best and most fair posts I have seen on pretty much any forum I have been around, and not just because I agree with it.

    For every reason I have heard to do nothing... I just haven't heard a single compelling reason that nothing can be done, nothing at all, for people who have R4 and R5 mystics who used them with MD.

    This game won't break if those specific individuals are presented with some kind of options -- even if they aren't perfect -- to recoup something from this.

    It can be limited in scope. It absolutely does not need to be a grab bag full of goodies, and it shouldn't be.

    But this game won't break if the most affected players are given a limited set of options about how they can approach the game after MD is changed.
  • Please @Kabam Miike , think about it, you are going to give back Loyalty, to dup my 5☆ Unstoppable Colossus?? (That now is nerfed).

    1. Can we get a Mystic RankDown Ticket?
    2. Can we sell our 5☆ Unstoppable Colossus?

    Giving back some Loyalty is not enough, we made decisions based on that specific mastery, like Rank Up some Mystic Character or Spend out Loyalty in the Unstoppable Colossus. Not to mention the ones that used an Awakening Gem or Sig Stones for their champions.

    At least Consider the Mystic RankDown Ticket :( and I will accept that I throw to the trash those Loyalty Units in that 5☆ Unstoppable Colossus :/.

    I know that you make your best to improve the game and fix some things now and then, but please don't change things without at least take in consideration our situation :/

    Thanks and take care.

    Greetings.
    Weapon J.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,979 ★★★★★
    HahaNu wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Nothing about the Champs is beig changed at all. Masteries are additives. It's been an overpowered mechanic for a long time.

    While I’m always against the issuance of RDTs, this is a significant change. While champs specifically were not changed, a lot of mystic champs were solely ranked due to their defensive power combined with MD. I mean would you really rsnkn5* Jugg to R4+ for offense? Kabam also said in multiple instances that MD and its relationship with dexterity was working as intended and they had no plans to change it. I personally don’t have a dog in this race but I can understand people wanting recompense for this.

    The fundamental use for Tickets is changes to how the Champs themsleves are intended to perform. Nothing about the Champs is tied into MD. Meaning, take it away and the Champs work the same as they always have. It's an enhancement. One that's been way too overpowered. The Meta has changed, and it's now time to change it along with it. People may have Ranked for that relationship, but it's also served until now. The change is to the Mastery, not the Champs. As was stated, Ranking needs to be done with the awareness that it's a final decision, and what works now may not work the same down the road. The game is constantly evolving and changing.
    If this was a direct change to the Champs themsleves, in a way that was significant and altered their fundamental functioning, I would have less of an argument. The fact is, nothing about the Champs themsleves is being changed, and it's been requested since before they even decided to finalize. Ranking isn't something that's done with the idea that you'll be able to go back. Fundamentally, I do not agree that they're warranted because literally no change to Champs is being made. Not even an exploit fix.

    How is the champ working the same when you take MD out, I have Mstar at r4 placing her on sp2 unblockable + powergain 100% miniboss node, when they evade her sp2 they trigger 2 times dexterity she will get a new bar of power out of that, how can you say this is not different now??? We understand you that don`t want us to get RDT, I saw you all over the post saying the same thing, OK, we got your point, let us present ours. We want mystic RDT, I want my defenders (Mordo and Mstar at r3) don`t need them in defense anymore cause they won`t work as they used to, we didn`t knew they are going to make this changes when we rank them up. Mechanics of them is changed cause I use them only on defense, they don`t gain power by triggering dexterity it`s a huge difference! So don`t tell us when we should receive RDT or not, if you don`t have mystic defenders at r4/r5 good for you, we do and we are not ok with this change.

    The Champ is working the same because the Mastery is an enhancement. Nothing about the Champ's design is tied into MD.
  • Nito wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike Loki currently trigger MD when he steals a buff. Will this be the case after the update? I don’t know if Buff steal is considered nullification. If it doesnt fuel MD, that’s a pretty severe blow to people who use Loki a lot. Just curious though. Thanks

    Sorry, this question got asked a couple times in this thread but I kept missing it! Yes, Loki's buff steal will fuel Mystic Dispersion!
  • ADDIS0NADDIS0N Posts: 900 ★★★★
    99.9% MD talk for obvious reasons, but I'd love to hear more from @Kabam Miike about Dexterity interactions with certain nodes like Spite and how the changes to Dexterity will affect interactivity there.

    Thanks.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,034 ★★★★★
    @Kabam Miike Just for 100% clarity if a champion like Wolverine or X-23 currently have a regeneration buff on and a new one applies over top the old one (not stacking) does this not trigger mystic dispersion? Same for say StarLord with Fury or Juggernaught with unstoppable?

    It won't. Only when it expires.
  • Junaid72003Junaid72003 Posts: 30
    Mike Kabam wrote
    We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

    Actually this is completely against customer service first you sell something than you make changes to particular product. People who upgraded Mystic champions to Rank 4 will get a huge set back due MD changes... And tbh kabam is going against there words, people must be given rank down tickets. Kabam just wants us to spend more money on other champions bcz if they issue rank down it will affect there Alpha 1 & 2 sale. Tbh this is all it’s about these time to time changes are just to make more money. Why don’t you hire people to directly defeat everyone in all the quest so that no one could make any rewards and that ways people would only get resources by buying things from your mall.
    It’s about complete peace of mind, isn’t it?
  • Epsilon3Epsilon3 Posts: 1,138 ★★★
    Will you also be monitoring Mephisto and Unstoppable Colossus in a similar vein as Juggernaut and Dormammu respectively?

    And what about Morningstar with her Sp2?

    And I don’t think I need to mention the Queen of Power Control and MD but what about MAGIK who’s Sp3 eviserates enemies with sheer power and pressuring due to MD as she is a combination offensive and defensive champ
  • DarkSpeedKingDarkSpeedKing Posts: 24
    Greetings to all the MCOC community, I'm a big mystic dispersion fan, I have it maxed out 5/5 and it's one of the reasons I have a 5* rank 5 Magik in which I spent all my mystic and generic signature stones and a 5* rank 4 Dormammu which I only ranked up for alliance war defense porpouses.

    So if you consider that I use my Magik mainly for attack you can say that she is not so heavily affected by the changes in mystic dispersion but what about my Dormammu? I already mentioned that I ranked him up only for defense and even in the Blade era of the game he is a pretty good defender but now he will pass from being the BG Boss to a diversity node in the corner of the map because he was only good for defense thanks of his interaction between his signature ability and mystic dispersion

    And like me there are thousand of other players who are in the same situation, a friend of mine for example, you can look up for him as "Altoevolucionad", ranked up his 5* Dormammu to rank 5 and took him to signature level 200 only for alliance war defense and like him I know many other players who ranked up Juggernaught, Mordo and many other characters only for alliance war defense because like my Dormmamu they are not good for attack.

    So, my suggestion is that Kabam, as a company that cares about it's customers, should give at least one "5* mystic rank down ticket" so summoners have the option to rank up a different character instead of the mystic champion they have.

    Think about it seriously please, Tier 2 Alfa Catalysts are one of the most scarce resources in the game and you need 4 to rank up a 5* champion to rank 4, for me with this mystic dispersion changes means 4 Tier 2 Alfas and many other valuable resources spent for nothing, can you imagine my friend spending 10 Tier 2 Alfas in his own Dormammu and all the other players I mentioned befored in the same situation.

    In my case, I will surely rank down my Dormammu and I'm sure that every Jugger, Mordo and any other mystic champ ranked up only to be used in alliance war defense will have the same fate.

    Thanks in advanced for your time and I'll be expecting your response.
  • xxgonzoxxxxgonzoxx Posts: 83
    @Kabam Miike I know everyone is wanting RDT right now but once they get past their RDT aspirations they may realize that, like me, they may lose out on thousands of units because they used gifting event to obtain their cores. I don't want 5/5 mystic d any more with these changes and would like my investment returned. Please address this.
  • SpindidiSpindidi Posts: 11
    Why only one rank down tickets i have 4 mystics deffenders that benefits MD..now this changes f them all
  • Noname54Noname54 Posts: 58
    edited August 2018
    HI Kabam,

    If we read all thread and posts about MD and Dexterity changes, all people would like to get 1 rank down Ticket for Mystic Class only. We don't want to get any compensation or something like that, but many like me had ranked some mystics champs for their MD advantage. Now will not work same before. We are not here for say "oh we don't want this update" but "ok why not but let me rankdown 1 mystic and evaluate it, if i am ok with that i can re-rank myself or not"

    Please listen us, you know many asked it, for i propose 1 "RANKDOWN TICKET for MYSTIC" for mystic class only for this change. We up our 5 stars to R4 or R5 who cost us many items (alpha2, t5b, gold,....). Please ? it's possible to do that ?
  • Tasty_Yum_YumsTasty_Yum_Yums Posts: 402 ★★★
    xxgonzoxx wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike I know everyone is wanting RDT right now but once they get past their RDT aspirations they may realize that, like me, they may lose out on thousands of units because they used gifting event to obtain their cores. I don't want 5/5 mystic d any more with these changes and would like my investment returned. Please address this.

    I am not suggesting/requesting RDTs and not competition for MD. It’s both that are justified.
  • PokePoke Posts: 5
    @Kabam Miike, it would be nice, after Kabam refunds mystic dispersion as loyalty or units, that once mystic cores are available you all might open “for a limited time” up all items and cores that have ever been on sale in loyalty store for summoners to spend loyalty on other things if desired. I’m sure I speak for most people that went to Level 4 or 5 MD...it took a long time to accumulate those cores when they were available just once a week.
  • Epsilon3Epsilon3 Posts: 1,138 ★★★
    Can we just imagine if Parry was nerfed? No champs changed right?

    Except Medusa, IMIW, Thor Ragnorok, Mordo, CWBP, AV, Rogue, Groot, Kingpin, Crossbones and even BW would be hit hard as defenders

    As for used champions it’d completely mess with Mordo, AA, KK, GHOST RIDER, GP, Cable, Sentinel, Hela and more who have abilities linked to their heavy attack that you really want the enemy parried for.

    And CLASSIC THOR would die near entirely while you’d also take bursts of extra damage from LC and Void. I think you’d even indirectly nerf Beast’s regen.

    Quake would become terrifying even more so while the likes of Yondu would the same if you parry a medium or light attack essentially making the way to fight him mandatory for fighting all champs and that much easier.


    Auto block would be an annoyance at best while Evade would rise to near unchallengeable difficulty without specific champs (like maybe 3)


    No matter how you’d change it to effect block proficiency, Stun duration, or even reducing the chance to stun. And let’s not even mention any changes to it would do to overall difficulty for the entire game.


    Now let’s look at OG Thor again. 12.0 hit him hard but on paper he’s only above average. Tack on the parry mastery (which I think 99.99% of the community has) and suddenly he was striking ROL Winter Soldier into dust with 10 hits. Now spread that mastery’s game changing nature onto an entire class split between attackers and defenders.

    Off my head I can think of 3 defenders immediately hurt but this change of interaction on defense alone being Juggernaut, U.Colossus, and Mephisto. Additionally Dormammu and Mordo as well as Magik and Morningstar all take defensive hits as well.

    But then on offense you look at Loki, Magik, Voodoo, GR, Morningstar, Mephisto, Hood, and… basically the entire class that gets hit in some way
  • DarkSpeedKingDarkSpeedKing Posts: 24
    edited August 2018
    I think we all agree Mystic Rank Down Tickets are mandatory @Kabam Miike , and using those tickets should return if posible all the items we used in that champion including signature stones in case we don't want to use that champion anymore.

    For example with this changes I would seriously consider taking another champion to rank 5 instead of my Magik, Stark Enhanced Spiderman for example.

    But if recovering the items it's not posible at least the resources used to ranking up the character it's a must.
  • MikespikeskullMikespikeskull Posts: 16
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike Just for 100% clarity if a champion like Wolverine or X-23 currently have a regeneration buff on and a new one applies over top the old one (not stacking) does this not trigger mystic dispersion? Same for say StarLord with Fury or Juggernaught with unstoppable?

    It won't. Only when it expires.

    In my opinion technically the buff expires when another one appears over the top of it. Thanks for your insight but I would really like an ‘official’ moderators answer. @Kabam Miike
  • hephaestushephaestus Posts: 145
    I think we all agree

    I don't think Kabam agrees. :)
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,034 ★★★★★
    edited August 2018
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike Just for 100% clarity if a champion like Wolverine or X-23 currently have a regeneration buff on and a new one applies over top the old one (not stacking) does this not trigger mystic dispersion? Same for say StarLord with Fury or Juggernaught with unstoppable?

    It won't. Only when it expires.

    In my opinion technically the buff expires when another one appears over the top of it. Thanks for your insight but I would really like an ‘official’ moderators answer. @Kabam Miike

    @Mikespikeskull please feel free to wait..... or do like I did and search this thread. Your question has been asked about a dozen or so times before you but you went ahead and asked again. The answers are there but I will again, make it simple for you.
    MD will activate when a buff EXPIRES. If a buff starts over before expiration, it will not fuel MD. In the case of X-23, if regen activates and then restarts before expiring, MD will not consume the buff. But if her regen expires full and then reactivates after expiration, MD consumes the buff fueling the power gain. Buffs that stack can fuel MD faster like Crossbones. If he has 8 fury's and they all expire at different intervals then it feeds MD more and more.
    It's pretty simple really but please, wait for Miike to respond.
This discussion has been closed.