If the rewards are not worth the effort, don't put in that effort. Focus it elsewhere
I don't think this completely dismisses all issues with AW rewards, but I do think there's a lot of this in here. Players are supposed to put in a level of effort that is appropriate to the rewards. They cannot put in vastly more effort than the rewards are worth, then complain about the fact that the rewards are not worth the effort.
Kabam doesn't force us to spend. We force each other to spend by spending more than the war is worth, encouraging our opponents to spend even more to chase those rewards. In fact, spending on alliance war is remarkably close to a paradox in economics known as the dollar auction.
It goes like this: I will auction off a dollar to the highest bidder. However, at the end of the auction both the highest bidder and the second place bidder must give me their bids: the highest bidder gets the dollar, the second highest bidder gets nothing.
So someone bids five cents. That's a good deal. Then someone else bids ten cents, because a dollar for ten cents is still a good deal. Now the first bidder thinks to themselves, if the auction ends now I'm out a nickel. So it makes sense for me to outbid the other guy, because I can still get that dollar for less than what it is worth. So he bids fifteen cents. Now the second guy thinks the same thing: he's out ten cents if he stops, so he's strongly incentivized to keep going.
Now imagine that after many rounds of this the first guy bids 95 cents. He can still get the dollar for less than a dollar. The second guy is about to lose 90 cents, so he bids one dollar. He can at least break even and get out of this game. But now the other guy is about to lose 95 cents and get nothing. He figures it would be better to bid $1.05 because then he is only out five cents rather than 95 cents. And then the other guy bids $1.10 thinking a similar thing, and then the bids just keep going up.
At this point I'm auctioning off a dollar for more than a dollar, possibly way more than a dollar, because those two guys have stopped trying to win a dollar, and are now trying to not lose to each other. The dollar itself ceases to matter to the need to not lose.
The reason why we think the rewards aren't worth the effort is that most of us aren't even trying to win the reward. We are trying not to lose to each other. No matter how high the rewards are, or how low they are, we will keep trying to not lose. The rewards will never be enough for the effort, because there's no end to the amount of effort players will spend to not lose to each other.
I don't think anyone would disagree that obviously Master and the 3 Plat ranks are harder to obtain but the problem is the rewards do not scale right through all of them when you compare the decrease each level of 6*, 5* shards and the t2a and t5b.
I get Masters is the best of the best but Masters getting a fully formed t2a for example and Gold 1 getting 4500 shards is a bit low. 6 times as much and then they get 18 time as much t5b not including the war crytals which can be good or bad.
Point is those 2 items are most important and they don't scale down like the rest of rewards do properly.
You're right they don't scale well at all. Master is definitely more than 18 times harder than gold 1. Rewards for master should be increased by x50 that of gold 1.
I don't think the rewards should "scale" in this way because that's not how rewards should work in this type of competition, but when this came up the last time I calculated that someone doing a straight forward calculation for rewards would find Gold 1 is too high, not to low, relative to master rewards. There are twenty master alliances and Gold 1 requires only getting into the top 1500 alliances (Gold 1 represents the bottom 1200 of the top 1500 alliances). That means the master alliances represent the top 1/75th of all Gold 1 and higher alliances. You could argue their rewards should be 75 times higher, if you were only considering rank effort vs rewards.
To repeat: I don't agree this is the proper way to set the rewards. Only that someone claiming Gold 1 should be increased due to the comparison between Gold 1 and Master level effort vs reward is probably shooting themselves in their own foot.
You and I agree. I was being facetious using the same logic as the person I quoted to reverse his argument.
ROFL you didn't reverse my argument at all and most certainly didn't use any sort of logic. All i said was the 6*, 5* shards and the rest of the rewards do not scale downwards in the same way that 2TA and T5B do. Your argument is subjective and has zero basis on the facts.
It's not debatable that Master's is easily much more difficult than Plat 1,2,3 and of course Gold 1 but are they deserving of 36x a 2TA and 18x a T5B is debatable and a subjective debate at that.
I don't think anyone would disagree that obviously Master and the 3 Plat ranks are harder to obtain but the problem is the rewards do not scale right through all of them when you compare the decrease each level of 6*, 5* shards and the t2a and t5b.
I get Masters is the best of the best but Masters getting a fully formed t2a for example and Gold 1 getting 4500 shards is a bit low. 6 times as much and then they get 18 time as much t5b not including the war crytals which can be good or bad.
Point is those 2 items are most important and they don't scale down like the rest of rewards do properly.
You're right they don't scale well at all. Master is definitely more than 18 times harder than gold 1. Rewards for master should be increased by x50 that of gold 1.
I don't think the rewards should "scale" in this way because that's not how rewards should work in this type of competition, but when this came up the last time I calculated that someone doing a straight forward calculation for rewards would find Gold 1 is too high, not to low, relative to master rewards. There are twenty master alliances and Gold 1 requires only getting into the top 1500 alliances (Gold 1 represents the bottom 1200 of the top 1500 alliances). That means the master alliances represent the top 1/75th of all Gold 1 and higher alliances. You could argue their rewards should be 75 times higher, if you were only considering rank effort vs rewards.
To repeat: I don't agree this is the proper way to set the rewards. Only that someone claiming Gold 1 should be increased due to the comparison between Gold 1 and Master level effort vs reward is probably shooting themselves in their own foot.
You and I agree. I was being facetious using the same logic as the person I quoted to reverse his argument.
ROFL you didn't reverse my argument at all and most certainly didn't use any sort of logic. All i said was the 6*, 5* shards and the rest of the rewards do not scale downwards in the same way that 2TA and T5B do. Your argument is subjective and has zero basis on the facts.
It's not debatable that Master's is easily much more difficult than Plat 1,2,3 and of course Gold 1 but are they deserving of 27x a 2TA and 18x a T5B is debatable and a subjective debate at that.
It's not debatable. If you have never played in tier 3 or above then you have no idea what you are talking about.
I run path 5 in t3/4 and node 29 still sucks there. People are still placing rank 5s in 7/10 wars.
I also ran 5 in t1/2 half of the time. So to say gold 1 is a push over isn’t completely fair I still boost just not as heavy but then again I’m on 29 and boss duty
I run path 5 in t3/4 and node 29 still sucks there. People are still placing rank 5s in 7/10 wars.
I also ran 5 in t1/2 half of the time. So to say gold 1 is a push over isn’t completely fair I still boost just not as heavy but then again I’m on 29 and boss duty
I've done both as well. 29 in t4 is easy with a good roster. It's easy to place gold 1 in t4
Comments
I don't think this completely dismisses all issues with AW rewards, but I do think there's a lot of this in here. Players are supposed to put in a level of effort that is appropriate to the rewards. They cannot put in vastly more effort than the rewards are worth, then complain about the fact that the rewards are not worth the effort.
Kabam doesn't force us to spend. We force each other to spend by spending more than the war is worth, encouraging our opponents to spend even more to chase those rewards. In fact, spending on alliance war is remarkably close to a paradox in economics known as the dollar auction.
It goes like this: I will auction off a dollar to the highest bidder. However, at the end of the auction both the highest bidder and the second place bidder must give me their bids: the highest bidder gets the dollar, the second highest bidder gets nothing.
So someone bids five cents. That's a good deal. Then someone else bids ten cents, because a dollar for ten cents is still a good deal. Now the first bidder thinks to themselves, if the auction ends now I'm out a nickel. So it makes sense for me to outbid the other guy, because I can still get that dollar for less than what it is worth. So he bids fifteen cents. Now the second guy thinks the same thing: he's out ten cents if he stops, so he's strongly incentivized to keep going.
Now imagine that after many rounds of this the first guy bids 95 cents. He can still get the dollar for less than a dollar. The second guy is about to lose 90 cents, so he bids one dollar. He can at least break even and get out of this game. But now the other guy is about to lose 95 cents and get nothing. He figures it would be better to bid $1.05 because then he is only out five cents rather than 95 cents. And then the other guy bids $1.10 thinking a similar thing, and then the bids just keep going up.
At this point I'm auctioning off a dollar for more than a dollar, possibly way more than a dollar, because those two guys have stopped trying to win a dollar, and are now trying to not lose to each other. The dollar itself ceases to matter to the need to not lose.
The reason why we think the rewards aren't worth the effort is that most of us aren't even trying to win the reward. We are trying not to lose to each other. No matter how high the rewards are, or how low they are, we will keep trying to not lose. The rewards will never be enough for the effort, because there's no end to the amount of effort players will spend to not lose to each other.
ROFL you didn't reverse my argument at all and most certainly didn't use any sort of logic. All i said was the 6*, 5* shards and the rest of the rewards do not scale downwards in the same way that 2TA and T5B do. Your argument is subjective and has zero basis on the facts.
It's not debatable that Master's is easily much more difficult than Plat 1,2,3 and of course Gold 1 but are they deserving of 36x a 2TA and 18x a T5B is debatable and a subjective debate at that.
It's not debatable. If you have never played in tier 3 or above then you have no idea what you are talking about.
I also ran 5 in t1/2 half of the time. So to say gold 1 is a push over isn’t completely fair I still boost just not as heavy but then again I’m on 29 and boss duty
I've done both as well. 29 in t4 is easy with a good roster. It's easy to place gold 1 in t4