Read this if you're complaining about wanting a nerf.

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Comments

  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    Do you understand the dissapointment. This game rewards you with more dissapointment that excitment. Just watch videos of people opening 8 feature crystals and getting 2 HB, IP, antman, colossus, SIM, SG, shehulk? Do you feel this pain?
  • Blackbeard wrote: »
    Everyone actually misunderstood cap. He proposed to balance the extra strong champs not by taking any of their ability but controlling it.
    I have seen this debate before. Some schooler type players always mention some names and how to counter them. But you cant pick specific champ against specific one always, as for in AW and Arena.
    Pls dont get me wrong, i am not asking for nerf, actually i like some challange these mentioned champs gives. But some are really painfull.
    Kabam has nerfed a lot of champs in past, and i really miss them. But i know kabam gonna nerf above mention champs. Its actually matter of time when they do it. So not going in this debate. And also request you all stop this childish debate.

    We didn't misunderstood him. We just disagree with him. Just a simple question, will you still put Sig stones to make DS maxed Sig now ? Will you do that prior to the nerf? Will you use your generic awakening gem on DS now? Will you do that prior to the nerf?

    I am personally not against cap, but there's no fair way to resolve any nerf, especially when Kabam is selling Sig stones deal and DS crystals to fuel the situation.

    Here's a simple answer regarding game balance: look pass the past and make new champs less like carbage and more like tech Spidey. We invest in champs because of what they wrote in black and white on spotlight. Why don't they make a champ to limit combo count ? Why don't they make a champ to buff with enemies power gain? They just need to be more creative that's all. The only childish thing here is thinking a nerf will solve everything and bring game balance.

    I agree, instead of nerfing kabam should create champions that counter pains like power gain and limbo, and the new characters should be skill based, like ghost rider or star lord, not a champ that you just have to have to be good, like gwenpool (no hate on gwenpool I love her but she doesn't require much skill to be good)
  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    If kabam wants to make profit they can sell champs.

    For example imagine a 5 star Deadpool for 750 dollars flat. How many will buy him?
  • CapWW2 wrote: »
    Do you understand the dissapointment. This game rewards you with more dissapointment that excitment. Just watch videos of people opening 8 feature crystals and getting 2 HB, IP, antman, colossus, SIM, SG, shehulk? Do you feel this pain?

    Yes i agreed. All those champs are in my rosters too some are 4* maxed Sig. But that's their business model .... And it's supply and demand. The day you stop feeling the pain is the day this game ends, because there are no more excitement and incentive to get a specific champs. No one will spin or grind for champs anymore because they are all mediocre and level.
  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    Do you understand the dissapointment. This game rewards you with more dissapointment that excitment. Just watch videos of people opening 8 feature crystals and getting 2 HB, IP, antman, colossus, SIM, SG, shehulk? Do you feel this pain?

    Yes i agreed. All those champs are in my rosters too some are 4* maxed Sig. But that's their business model .... And it's supply and demand. The day you stop feeling the pain is the day this game ends, because there are no more excitement and incentive to get a specific champs. No one will spin or grind for champs anymore because they are all mediocre and level.


    Hence my point, this is why i want all champs amazing. But we need to level god tier amd raise mediocre ones
  • SirnoobSirnoob Posts: 952 ★★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    It is not that every champ should be equal. It is that every champ should be capable of doing the same amount of damage overtime. Different abilities same end result. Please get it once for all

    Do you know what unique and equal mean? At one point u said every champ should be unique then u say that they should all be able to go the same amount of damage over a period of time. What about champs who are not damage dealers we have a few of them those that focus on regen like rouge is it fair to nerf sl just because rouge can't to his amount of damage?

    No not every champ should be similar just because one champ might excel at one point and another does not should not mean nerf
  • Total agreement with @WreakingHavoc
  • I think that with all the good champs being added to the 4* hero crystal now, (iceman and archangel just got added) there's no need for a buff right now. And I think there should never be nerfa unless it is absolutely necessary
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    I think that with all the good champs being added to the 4* hero crystal now, (iceman and archangel just got added) there's no need for a buff right now. And I think there should never be nerfa unless it is absolutely necessary

    There's definitely no need for a nerf, but buffs would be completely justified. I mean, have you seen Spidergwen? And Iron Patriot? Luke Cage? Ant-Man, Carnage, Iron Man, Hulkbuster, Black Bolt, Magneto, Loki, and Iron Fist? Those guys all need buffed. The amount of already good champs doesn't effect that.
  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    It is not that every champ should be equal. It is that every champ should be capable of doing the same amount of damage overtime. Different abilities same end result. Please get it once for all

    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.


    Agree with you, however i am not calling nf for a nerf of Star Lord, if he is capped at 200 hits how powerful he is? Just do the math.
  • LagmelongtimeLagmelongtime Posts: 86
    edited August 2017
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    If kabam wants to make profit they can sell champs.

    For example imagine a 5 star Deadpool for 750 dollars flat. How many will buy him?

    Can you imagine how many additional forum haters you will earn when you suggest nerfing a 5* deadpool that cost $750 flat when he gets too OP in AW?...
  • SirnoobSirnoob Posts: 952 ★★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    It is not that every champ should be equal. It is that every champ should be capable of doing the same amount of damage overtime. Different abilities same end result. Please get it once for all

    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.


    Agree with you, however i am not calling nf for a nerf of Star Lord, if he is capped at 200 hits how powerful he is? Just do the math.

    U do realize asking for a champs abilitys do be weaker is a nerf correct?
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    It is not that every champ should be equal. It is that every champ should be capable of doing the same amount of damage overtime. Different abilities same end result. Please get it once for all

    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.


    Agree with you, however i am not calling nf for a nerf of Star Lord, if he is capped at 200 hits how powerful he is? Just do the math.

    He's still not as good. A change to make someone worse is, by definition, a nerf. A change to make someone better is, by definition, a buff. Lowering the cap of effectiveness is making someone worse.
  • I think that with all the good champs being added to the 4* hero crystal now, (iceman and archangel just got added) there's no need for a buff right now. And I think there should never be nerfa unless it is absolutely necessary

    There's definitely no need for a nerf, but buffs would be completely justified. I mean, have you seen Spidergwen? And Iron Patriot? Luke Cage? Ant-Man, Carnage, Iron Man, Hulkbuster, Black Bolt, Magneto, Loki, and Iron Fist? Those guys all need buffed. The amount of already good champs doesn't effect that.

    Yea I guess

  • CapWW2 wrote: »
    If kabam wants to make profit they can sell champs.

    For example imagine a 5 star Deadpool for 750 dollars flat. How many will buy him?

    Can you imagine how many additional forum haters you will earn when you suggest nerfing a 5* deadpool that cost $750 flat when he gets too OP in AW?...

    Fun fact. Probably cost some players that amount via unit deals and shard deals for the champs you want to nerf right now.
  • Awesomeness44Awesomeness44 Posts: 139
    edited August 2017
    Anyone else think Moon Knight's bleeds should become stackable?
  • The only OP champion in the game was pre-12.0 Scarlet Witch. Switch used to be able to stun, power drain, power lock, regen back to full health and then hit her opponent with a 40k crit hit with an L2. I hated when they nerfed her not because I didn't think she was OP but because I loved watching her crush everyone in her path.

    Regardless, there are a lot of great champions now but none of them are over-powered. None of them just walk through end-game content without having some challenge and/or disadvantage and/or require skill to leverage. Kabam is getting it right in their development of new champions - the newest characters are more interesting and nuanced.

    Are there some underpowered (UP) champions that need a buff - arguably yes. But having a balance of non-great champions is workable. And for those who tout your superior fighting skills - then I suggest you use more underpowered champions to make things more interesting for you.

  • I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.
    Why did you spend so much time and resources on Star Lord? Because you like his play style? Because you like his character in the comics? Because you liked the movies? Probably not. You probably focused Star Lord because he is one of the top tier champions in the game. I understand you would be upset to spend that much and have him nerfed, but why have so many champions if only the top tier is really viable?

    Buffs can be every bit as bad as nerfs. Buffing everyone to the same level would be the same as nerfing everyone to the same level. Even worse, if every champ was buffed to godly levels, it would be a free for all.

    Nerfing champs does not mean destroying them. It means bringing them down to a more reasonable level. Balancing champs does not mean making them all the same. It means given them each unique strengths and weaknesses that make them all fun to play. It will never be completely balanced, but when the top tier and bottom tier are too far apart, Kabam needs to fix it.

  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.
    Why did you spend so much time and resources on Star Lord? Because you like his play style? Because you like his character in the comics? Because you liked the movies? Probably not. You probably focused Star Lord because he is one of the top tier champions in the game. I understand you would be upset to spend that much and have him nerfed, but why have so many champions if only the top tier is really viable?

    Buffs can be every bit as bad as nerfs. Buffing everyone to the same level would be the same as nerfing everyone to the same level. Even worse, if every champ was buffed to godly levels, it would be a free for all.

    Nerfing champs does not mean destroying them. It means bringing them down to a more reasonable level. Balancing champs does not mean making them all the same. It means given them each unique strengths and weaknesses that make them all fun to play. It will never be completely balanced, but when the top tier and bottom tier are too far apart, Kabam needs to fix it.

    Wow I could not explain it better. Thanks bro this is what I am truly trying to accomplish!
  • SirnoobSirnoob Posts: 952 ★★★
    edited August 2017
    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.
    Why did you spend so much time and resources on Star Lord? Because you like his play style? Because you like his character in the comics? Because you liked the movies? Probably not. You probably focused Star Lord because he is one of the top tier champions in the game. I understand you would be upset to spend that much and have him nerfed, but why have so many champions if only the top tier is really viable?

    Buffs can be every bit as bad as nerfs. Buffing everyone to the same level would be the same as nerfing everyone to the same level. Even worse, if every champ was buffed to godly levels, it would be a free for all.

    Nerfing champs does not mean destroying them. It means bringing them down to a more reasonable level. Balancing champs does not mean making them all the same. It means given them each unique strengths and weaknesses that make them all fun to play. It will never be completely balanced, but when the top tier and bottom tier are too far apart, Kabam needs to fix it.


    If someone wanted let's say rocket yo be more useful nerfing starlord would be a terrible way of doing so and would only piss people off same would go for nerfing voodoo because abomination is not as good eventually things get stale if no champs end up standing out and would get nerfed buffing would bot be the same as nerfing if you wanted to buff rocket to make him hit harder that would be finestar lord will still get used but so will rocket nerfing starlord would do nothing more then simply piss of the people who put there resources in him if you want more champs to be viable nerfing others won't solve that in the post v12 stage of the game

    This the important thing cap and you don't seem to realize v12 happened because at one point the dev team was making content just to counter those champs they admitted to that as of right now there clearly not making content to counter starlord or voodoo r even Hyperion

    That's the difference between pre 12 and post people throw around God tier way too much now and days
    Proof that the game team is not making content designed to counter so would be a few event quest ago when they even gave him a node designed to help his ability instead of counter it
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    I've been watching this conversation for a long time now, and I'm gonna step in and say something.

    I understand what you mean. You want all champs to be as effective as each other, just in different ways. I, too, think that this should happen. The problem is the process you think it should be pursued.

    You want the best champs - namely Star Lord, Magik, and Hyperion - to be brought down to the average level. This would effectively balance the game, you're correct. But it would ruin the game for many users. I have a 4 star Star Lord as one of my top champs. I used an Awakening Gem on him. I used around 40 Signature Stones on him. I've spent hundreds of units on special crystals in an attempt to get the last Tier 4 Tech Catalyst so I can max him out. I've bought Glory Crystals, done Tech Catalyst Quests and sold my rewards, and spent countless amounts of energy on quests for one champion, and that champion is Star Lord. Consider the amount of people who've done the same thing, and even more than I in some cases.

    If Star Lord was nerfed, I, and most other users, would go insane. Even if Kabam issued many Rank Down Tickets, it wouldn't do justice for the nerf. Kabam can't and/or won't give back the time, energy, Awakening Gem, Signature Stones, and sometimes even money that we've spent to pour into this one champion. The same is true for any champion. Hyperion, Magik, Gwenpool, and Dr. Voodoo, all of which you've commented on if I recall, are some of the most prized possessions of many summoners. Nerfing them would inevitably thrust users from the game in frustration. I know that I would leave if my top champs, like Star Lord, were nerfed.

    Buffs, however, are much better. Buffs harm no one. The worst a buff can do is make someone regret selling a champ, but it won't actively undermine a user's roster. Buffing the bad champs is a much better way to go about the balancing of the game. Would you rather tear champs down or build champs up? I'd suggest the latter, and I hope that you'll understand and come to the same conclusion.
    Why did you spend so much time and resources on Star Lord? Because you like his play style? Because you like his character in the comics? Because you liked the movies? Probably not. You probably focused Star Lord because he is one of the top tier champions in the game. I understand you would be upset to spend that much and have him nerfed, but why have so many champions if only the top tier is really viable?

    Buffs can be every bit as bad as nerfs. Buffing everyone to the same level would be the same as nerfing everyone to the same level. Even worse, if every champ was buffed to godly levels, it would be a free for all.

    Nerfing champs does not mean destroying them. It means bringing them down to a more reasonable level. Balancing champs does not mean making them all the same. It means given them each unique strengths and weaknesses that make them all fun to play. It will never be completely balanced, but when the top tier and bottom tier are too far apart, Kabam needs to fix it.

    You are exactly right. I spent time in him because he's good. But buffs aren't as bad as nerfs. Ever. Buffing everyone to the same level wouldn't HURT people. It would balance the game. I'm not saying everyone should be identical, I'm saying that all champs should be able to be utilized.
  • CapWW2CapWW2 Posts: 2,901 ★★★★
    We are talking about balance. You are only telling half the story. It consist on two things:

    1. Bring down god tier champs to a more balanced state
    2. Elevate mediocre champs to be leveled at the same strenght that the former god tier will be.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,031 ★★★★★
    People are mistaking total interchangeability with game balance. They're not the same thing. A game like this will never have interchangeable Champs. That's not how it's designed. Each Champ has different strengths and weaknesses, and they are balanced among the total framework, while still maintaining their own unique characteristics. Now, inevitably someone may argue based on preference that some Champs have no viable qualities. That's relative to their preference and where they are in the game. Different Champs have different applications in different areas of the game. That's how it works. Some areas require specific Champs, and the entire game is designed around acquiring the Champs people need and want. It won't be totally "balanced" in the sense that any Champ is viable at the Top Tier. That's just the game structure. The problem is people are confusing a rebalance with balance in the literal sense. That's not to say there isn't room for improvement. It just means that neutering some and buffing others has much more of an effect on the overall game than just equal opportunity. Playing the comparison game is not reasonable. Simply because the newer Champs are newer, and will inevitably seem better than the older ones.
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    CapWW2 wrote: »
    We are talking about balance. You are only telling half the story. It consist on two things:

    1. Bring down god tier champs to a more balanced state
    2. Elevate mediocre champs to be leveled at the same strenght that the former god tier will be.

    That's just not true. I'm not saying you're lying, I just don't think you understand. Let's just say that all champions are on a scale of 1 to 10. Someone like Hyperion or Star Lord is a 10, while a champ like Spidergwen or Carnage is a 1. If you thing those champs up to a 10, or even a 7 or 8, why would you have to bring the top champs down to 7 or 8? That's unnecessary. Some champs will always be better. There's no need to get some champs close, but then have a nerf finish the gap. The gap should just be a 2 or 3 instead of a 9.
  • You are exactly right. I spent time in him because he's good. But buffs aren't as bad as nerfs. Ever. Buffing everyone to the same level wouldn't HURT people. It would balance the game. I'm not saying everyone should be identical, I'm saying that all champs should be able to be utilized.
    Buffs absolutely can be as bad as nerfs. You could buff every champ to have easy power lock/drain. Then Hyperion would be almost useless. You could buff every champ to stop evade. There go the Spidey champs. Buff all champs to have godly L3s and everyone would stop using L1/L2. Now it's just a race to get max power. The list goes on.

    It really doesn't matter how much we debate this. Kabam will likely continue to buff and nerf champs no matter what we say. The best we can do is voice our opinions to let them know which champs we think need work.
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    You are exactly right. I spent time in him because he's good. But buffs aren't as bad as nerfs. Ever. Buffing everyone to the same level wouldn't HURT people. It would balance the game. I'm not saying everyone should be identical, I'm saying that all champs should be able to be utilized.
    Buffs absolutely can be as bad as nerfs. You could buff every champ to have easy power lock/drain. Then Hyperion would be almost useless. You could buff every champ to stop evade. There go the Spidey champs. Buff all champs to have godly L3s and everyone would stop using L1/L2. Now it's just a race to get max power. The list goes on.

    It really doesn't matter how much we debate this. Kabam will likely continue to buff and nerf champs no matter what we say. The best we can do is voice our opinions to let them know which champs we think need work.

    Okay, that's unreasonable. Of course making someone have an absolute counter to everything and do infinite damage and always take zero damage is game-breaking. I'm saying that making a champ better - within reason - isn't a problem under any circumstances.
  • Buffs absolutely can be as bad as nerfs. You could buff every champ to have easy power lock/drain. Then Hyperion would be almost useless. You could buff every champ to stop evade. There go the Spidey champs. Buff all champs to have godly L3s and everyone would stop using L1/L2. Now it's just a race to get max power. The list goes on.

    It really doesn't matter how much we debate this. Kabam will likely continue to buff and nerf champs no matter what we say. The best we can do is voice our opinions to let them know which champs we think need work.

    Okay, that's unreasonable. Of course making someone have an absolute counter to everything and do infinite damage and always take zero damage is game-breaking. I'm saying that making a champ better - within reason - isn't a problem under any circumstances.[/quote]
    I was using hyperbole to make a point. Buffing and nerfing to the extreme can be bad. Buffing and nerfing to achieve overall game balance while maintaining unique character qualities can be good. I have seen other games do it successfully. Kabam's previous missteps may have left some people resistant to nerfs and buffs, but if they don't do it, this game will become extremely unbalanced and not much fun to play.
  • WreakingHavocWreakingHavoc Posts: 253 ★★
    Buffs absolutely can be as bad as nerfs. You could buff every champ to have easy power lock/drain. Then Hyperion would be almost useless. You could buff every champ to stop evade. There go the Spidey champs. Buff all champs to have godly L3s and everyone would stop using L1/L2. Now it's just a race to get max power. The list goes on.

    It really doesn't matter how much we debate this. Kabam will likely continue to buff and nerf champs no matter what we say. The best we can do is voice our opinions to let them know which champs we think need work.

    Okay, that's unreasonable. Of course making someone have an absolute counter to everything and do infinite damage and always take zero damage is game-breaking. I'm saying that making a champ better - within reason - isn't a problem under any circumstances.
    I was using hyperbole to make a point. Buffing and nerfing to the extreme can be bad. Buffing and nerfing to achieve overall game balance while maintaining unique character qualities can be good. I have seen other games do it successfully. Kabam's previous missteps may have left some people resistant to nerfs and buffs, but if they don't do it, this game will become extremely unbalanced and not much fun to play.[/quote]

    I'm not saying that it should go to the extreme for either one. I'm simply saying that any nerf, even the smallest negative change, can ruin a champ for several users. Buffs aren't bad unless you make a champ insanely outrageous. But that's not what I'm asking for, so your point is invalid here.
This discussion has been closed.