A crazy idea for new champs.

SomedaySomeday Posts: 7
edited September 2019 in General Discussion
The whole Cull Obsidian situation has me thinking. I was weak and blew a ton to get him.
Now people are talking about no champion is safe, maybe even Namor is next!!!

So how can we help kabam help themselves to ensure this sort of huge freak out doesn’t happen again? (It’s sad watching fellow gamers fight amongst themselves and watching the pages of a discussion go to 47, then to 42 due to post removals....)
Some of the mods have mentioned that they cannot possibly test for everything before a new champ is released. The players can find things out a week after a champ is released that the game team could never have on their own. I understand that, so how do we make it so everyone has faith in the spending for a champ? (whether it’s units to get them or precious rank up materials)

Some have likened the player base to “beta testing” the game for kabam. Well, why not make it official, and I’m not talking about the actual beta.

So here is my crazy idea:
When you plan on a new champ, you give the beta champ to everyone (the type of champ rank and star level could be determined by status, uncollected/cavalier whatever)
You can play anywhere that requires a 5 man team. (No AQ/AW)
The caveat is that any progress you make doesn’t count but it also doesn’t cost you any energy.
Whenever you have the “beta champ” on your team it’s like a free play with no rewards. (So you cant blow through content)
You just get to try out the champ.
At the end of the trial period, you take him/her away. Who knows, maybe you get more than just whales to go for a champ when the “official” release comes out because they have used the champ and love them and you get the help from the community with “bugs”

Idk, just thinking.
Could be awesome.
Could be lame....:

Comments

  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 755 ★★★

    Or they could just watch the Content Creator Videos on YouTube with titles like 'Cull Obsidian does two trillion damage in three seconds' and then act before the crystal is released...

    To further this point...
    Give the Content Creators 5/65 versions of champs so "unintended" interactions can be tested at full scale, instead of at half power.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Or they could just watch the Content Creator Videos on YouTube with titles like 'Cull Obsidian does two trillion damage in three seconds' and then act before the crystal is released...

    To further this point...
    Give the Content Creators 5/65 versions of champs so "unintended" interactions can be tested at full scale, instead of at half power.
    How would that prevent or even minimize this? The CCPs are not paid testers, they are still not going to put them through the ringer that all of us can do. The CCP would not be testing at "full scale"
  • Vegeta9000Vegeta9000 Posts: 204 ★★
    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 2,592 ★★★★★
    I've seen similar ideas floating around. I'm sceptical though. Would this really be the solution? I don't know.
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 1,194 ★★★
    Someday said:

    The whole Cull Obsidian situation has me thinking. I was weak and blew a ton to get him.
    Now people are talking about no champion is safe,:

    Hulkbuster is safe . ;)
    Iron Fist ..
    Cyclops ..
    Karnak

    :)
  • Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 6,783 ★★★★★
    Make round table members in the same boat as Content Creators in terms of getting champs, because a bunch of skilled players will be able to find exploits/brokenness better than people concerned with making a video and pushing it out quickly.
  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 755 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 755 ★★★
    @Lormif
    We agree Kabam balancing champs is healthy for the game overall. I'll leave it at that... bcuz our view of how Kabam can do that responsibly differs greatly.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 2,992 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    Seems like you've never worked as a games tester before.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    No, I am not. One thing you seem to be ignoring is the randomness of most abilities. You cannot just make a couple run through of EQ, AQ, and AQ to see this. The testing has to be statistically relevant. You need to have many didnt run through with every single node, node combination, ability, synergy and so forth. A 20 man, nor even a 50 man game testing team cannot do this. They can go through and see that a champ is generally working how they are described, see that there are generally no bugs based on their test plan, but is not an exaggeration to say that is impossible to test it to the point where they will not need to nerrf some champions after release based on data the test team could not see.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    Seems like you've never worked as a games tester before.
    pretty sure he has never even been a beta tester. There is a reason game companies open up beta testing on isolated sets of features to closed testers, and then having a wide open open beta to the people who buy the game to get massive amounts of feedback. A little bit of data on a select set of environments is not enough.
  • Chadpool1Chadpool1 Posts: 312
    A bigger testing staff makes the most sense and should be able in a couple months have the champ under control understanding most interactions with all game modes and high end content that they are so worried about. Especially if they slow down and put in one champ a month imo.

    You assign these lucky bastiches the enviable Job of playin a game and getting paid for it. All day. That’s you’re job. Sign me up! Course it’ll probably go to a third world country cause of costs.
    Just think about the weird little sweat shop of third world kids with every kind of phones and tablets and what not just a tapping away all day long so that we the player base can have perfect champs.
    Course if you gotta work a sweat shop that’s probably the best one. Unless their Kabam Overlords work their little fingers to the bone tapping out every permutation. While KM stands above them menacingly over seeing the horde as they collapse from exhaustion. He whips them mercilessly as they try to protect themselves with their gnarled carpletunnel ridden hands...

    I forgot where I was going with that one. 🙃
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    edited September 2019
    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    No, I am not. One thing you seem to be ignoring is the randomness of most abilities. You cannot just make a couple run through of EQ, AQ, and AQ to see this. The testing has to be statistically relevant. You need to have many didnt run through with every single node, node combination, ability, synergy and so forth. A 20 man, nor even a 50 man game testing team cannot do this. They can go through and see that a champ is generally working how they are described, see that there are generally no bugs based on their test plan, but is not an exaggeration to say that is impossible to test it to the point where they will not need to nerrf some champions after release based on data the test team could not see.
    My fault but i was talking about cull specifically because with cull you really didn't need to test much because he is limited in so much content that if you did a few runs in act 6 or something he is not able to do "too much damage" before he ends up dying idk about how they would others champs though but I'm pretty sure if they can get enough beta testers then they they could be able to test every aspect of a champs abilities although that would be pretty expensive so another solution is that they shouldn't always be releasing 2 champs every month because it doesn't give them enough time to fully evaluate a champs abilities and that's where situation like this happens or do more beta test for newer champs before their release
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    Seems like you've never worked as a games tester before.
    Yeah I haven't and my argument may have sounded ignorant and it was my apologies on that lol
  • BogiaBogia Posts: 125
    The problem is that periodic balance adjustments are new to this game. I feel like once everyone gets used to having them periodically, there will be a lot less drama anytime a champion gets adjusted. And most of the drama is happening before anyone has even tried the newer version. They aren't completely reworking the champs, they are just adjusting them to help make them more balanced, that's it.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,346 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    No, I am not. One thing you seem to be ignoring is the randomness of most abilities. You cannot just make a couple run through of EQ, AQ, and AQ to see this. The testing has to be statistically relevant. You need to have many didnt run through with every single node, node combination, ability, synergy and so forth. A 20 man, nor even a 50 man game testing team cannot do this. They can go through and see that a champ is generally working how they are described, see that there are generally no bugs based on their test plan, but is not an exaggeration to say that is impossible to test it to the point where they will not need to nerrf some champions after release based on data the test team could not see.
    My fault but i was talking about cull specifically because with cull you really didn't need to test much because he is limited in so much content that if you did a few runs in act 6 or something he is not able to do "too much damage" before he ends up dying idk about how they would others champs though but I'm pretty sure if they can get enough beta testers then they they could be able to test every aspect of a champs abilities although that would be pretty expensive so another solution is that they shouldn't always be releasing 2 champs every month because it doesn't give them enough time to fully evaluate a champs abilities and that's where situation like this happens or do more beta test for newer champs before their release
    Except with cull I would argue the opposite. IF his damage was based off already existing buffs in game he would need less monitoring, and less overall testing. When you use the same buffs as already in game they have tons of data available on those ready to look at. When you introduce new buffs such as route and thanos favor then you introduce unknowns that you have to collect more data on.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Zuro said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    If you’re not fully testing things before theyre added into the game, then you need morr staff or better staff. Events and contents fair enough, but a Champion that people spend money on, should be the final product. You absolutely have to test every aspect of a champion before release, that or get more people in the whole champion testing phase. I dont personally spend, so it really rarely affects me, especially when im still sat here rocking the older champs like Magik and hype, but even i can see that Champions people spend on should be properly tested so they know what theyre spending on.

    this is impossible. It would require more time and people then is litterally possible to have. They would be unable to release new champs.
    This is where Kabam and I disagree. I find this no more acceptable than if a car manufacturer said it would be faster for millions of customers to discover defects while driving home vs quality testing the vehicles before selling them.
    Call me crazy, but it seems universally accepted that a company is responsible for their own product quality.
    Then I must sasy you dont understand the issue. Everything on a car has to work in isolation with itself. It is not dependent on anything other than itself and the road, and in addition each part is typically tested by the company that provides it making the final work easier to test. In the end though the number of test permutations you have to perform is relatively small, and it is a physical device.

    The champions for this game has 100s of millions if not billions of possible interactions that have to be tested for your idea to work, which is why it is not possible... This is standard in the MMO arena, because it is impossible to account for all those interactions.

    It would be like requiring the car company to test their airbags at every 1 kph increment, in every possible road condition, in every type of possible sitting position, practical or otherwise, and then testing every other part in the same way.
    You're over exaggeration is immense they wouldn't even have to test that much just see how they do in some story content,some EQ, some AW/AQ no one said they have to test every single fight in the game just enough where they can collect a understandable amount of data
    No, I am not. One thing you seem to be ignoring is the randomness of most abilities. You cannot just make a couple run through of EQ, AQ, and AQ to see this. The testing has to be statistically relevant. You need to have many didnt run through with every single node, node combination, ability, synergy and so forth. A 20 man, nor even a 50 man game testing team cannot do this. They can go through and see that a champ is generally working how they are described, see that there are generally no bugs based on their test plan, but is not an exaggeration to say that is impossible to test it to the point where they will not need to nerrf some champions after release based on data the test team could not see.
    My fault but i was talking about cull specifically because with cull you really didn't need to test much because he is limited in so much content that if you did a few runs in act 6 or something he is not able to do "too much damage" before he ends up dying idk about how they would others champs though but I'm pretty sure if they can get enough beta testers then they they could be able to test every aspect of a champs abilities although that would be pretty expensive so another solution is that they shouldn't always be releasing 2 champs every month because it doesn't give them enough time to fully evaluate a champs abilities and that's where situation like this happens or do more beta test for newer champs before their release
    Except with cull I would argue the opposite. IF his damage was based off already existing buffs in game he would need less monitoring, and less overall testing. When you use the same buffs as already in game they have tons of data available on those ready to look at. When you introduce new buffs such as route and thanos favor then you introduce unknowns that you have to collect more data on.
    I see where you're coming from but if they did like 1 piece of testing in end game content they would know he really isn't much of a viable option
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