Suicides not working properly

I recently tested darkhawk in Rol

W full suicides and without. Same synergy team. I found the damage w suicides was only 22% more . Not 60%. Please advise

Data points


I did not go out trying to test this....but it just seemed off to me so I compared videos I had for the fights to compare.


  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 139
    I will test out other champs .......but I would like some clarification of how suicides are supposed to work.

    The way the are written imply 60% increased attack ( w full lc de)
  • Cranmer00Cranmer00 Posts: 521 ★★
    Yes it’s the same with recoil, that is because it’s 60% to base attack, not 60% to your attack (including other masteries) at that time.

    So 20% total sounds about right..

    Their wording on all of their stuff is super misleading and misled me too.
  • Cranmer00Cranmer00 Posts: 521 ★★
    You’ll see a lot of their descriptions be very misleading

    Hope this helps though, because that’s how I understand it
  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 139
    Can I get a mod to explain
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Frankmcoc wrote: »
    Can I get a mod to explain


    Your data is incomplete without showing what the rest of your masteries are. However, I'm not sure a mod will tell you anything different that what @Cranmer00 told you.

    As he said, suicides increase your base attack by a set percentage. It does not increase your damage by that same percentage. In other words, if you used to crit at 1000 damage, don't expect to now crit at 1600 damage with full DE and LC. For example, if you had Glass Cannon maxed out before adding suicides (and ignoring strength, greater strength, and courage), then your attack rating would now be 100% + 7.2%, or 107.2%. Add in suicides and now you're at 107.2% + 60% = 167.2%. The game then uses this number along with things like armor rating, physical resistance, and critical rating to calculate what damage is done. Adding suicides does not just add a flat 60% to your damage output.

    You are looking specifically at critical hits, but normal hits would be a better indicator. The Cruelty mastery will add an additional modifier onto the critical hits, which only muddies the waters.

    It's important to note how many points are in strength, greater strength, glass cannon, and courage when you're testing in both scenarios. Running heavy in these categories before adding suicides will water down the perceived effect of the additional attack afforded by Suicide masteries as they all modify the base attack as well.
  • FrankmcocFrankmcoc Posts: 139
    Thanks for the responses

    Other masteries the same

    Strength , greater strength just 1 point stepping stones

    No glass canon w/o suicides, one point w suicides

    No courage

    So I guess to follow up I’d like to know how attack correlates to actual damage

    Considering all other variables the same

    If your champ has 1000 attack rating what damage will his/her light , medium, heavy do to enemy X

    Then if the same champ had attack rating 2000 what would it do to the same enemy?

    Or 3000

    Based off what I’m seeing I guess it’s not a parallel linear progression, ie 3000 attack doesn’t do triple the damage as 1000 attack (all other variables the same)
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,417 ★★★★★
    The issue is you are testing in null mode.

    Null mode provides 100% attack and up to an additional 100% when max sig. This makes the impact of suicides far less since they provide 60% attack.

    As an example, if base attack was 100 (for illustrative purposes).

    No suicides: 100 + 100 + 100 = 300 attack
    Suicides: 100 + 60 + 100 + 100 = 360 attack

    The suicides only provided 20% more attack, looks oddly similar to your numbers, if you factor other attack masteries like GC and greater attack. ;)
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