Incinerate damage and Mephisto

richo82

I was under the impression that Mephisto was essentially immune to incinerate. As is stated on his abilities.
"Generates 12% of a bar of power instead of taking incinerate energy damage and is immune to frostbite and coldsnap."
So why is it that when hit by Hyperion's first special or effected by the Human Torch's passive he is taking damage.

Lormif

I cannot speak to hyperion without looking at his abilities, but human torch's incinerates turn to nova flames when being attacked by energy attacks, and all mystic champs are considered energy against hims. Nova flame is a different ability and does energy damage not burning damage. I think he was designed specifically to counter that.

richo82

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

Lormif

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human tourch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

richo82

Just another example of kabam making it up as they go to get more item use out of us

Lormif

richo82 said:

Just another example of kabam making it up as they go to get more item use out of us

Its class disadvantage, use another incinerate champ that does not use energy attacks...

richo82

I think your missing my point. What I'm saying is that they give champions abilities which we hold use for, then they create ways to void those abilities and in my personal opinion it does not lead it to be a level playing field.

Lormif

richo82 said:

I think your missing my point. What I'm saying is that they give champions abilities which we hold use for, then they create ways to void those abilities and in my personal opinion it does not lead it to be a level playing field.

oh, I get your point, you seem to be not getting mine, it is class disadvantage.. Science beats mystic beats cosmic, so on and so on. With this many champs and this many abilities there is no way to have a perfectly level playing field, and they dont even try, which is why they generally balance by class not by ability.

Gamer

Void work

Dexman1349

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

Lormif

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

KillSwitch

Class advantage or not, it seems extremely petty to do that when you are building him up as your incinerate immune champ

Ch1efster

This is pretty much similar to adding nodes to make it so you cannot reverse heal. Just their way of nerfing champs without altering their stats or abilities.

Unavoidable damage always sucks no matter where it is. I still don't like taking on Havok because I don't have the right Armor buff champs for him.

Dexman1349

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

Lormif

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Incitatus666

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human tourch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

Incitatus666

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

Lormif

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

You mean how human tourche's own unique nova flame is unique to him and has its own category?

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human touch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

It makes perfect sense.. You seem to have glosed over the fact that Void is affected by human torches incinerate, not his nova flame making him imune, where as Mephisto gets hit with nova flame not incinerate. That he is not being hit by incinerate but a new ability is what is causing Mephisto to fail. Again they only count as incinerate in relation to human torches abilities, not the opponents immunities.

Dexman1349

You're starting to sound like Kabam when they defend Ghost Rider and Dormammu not being incinerate immune.

"They are made of fire, but it's a *different* type of fire."

We're going to need to start having Fire Extinguisher type designations for incinerate.



Vulture is "Type A" incinerate immune and inflicts Type A

Mephisto and Iceman are "Type A and B" immune

Mephisto inflicts Type B incinerate with his Aura and Type A with his Sp1

Red Hulk builds Type C charges with his SP1. He is only immune to Type B

Human Torch inflicts Type D incinerate. No one is immune to this including himself.

Ghost Rider and Dormammu are made from Type E fire that is not helpful in any other way.

Incitatus666

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

You mean how human tourche's own unique nova flame is unique to him and has its own category?

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human touch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

It makes perfect sense.. You seem to have glosed over the fact that Void is affected by human torches incinerate, not his nova flame making him imune, where as Mephisto gets hit with nova flame not incinerate. That he is not being hit by incinerate but a new ability is what is causing Mephisto to fail. Again they only count as incinerate in relation to human torches abilities, not the opponents immunities.

That's just absurd, there is no comparison to death spores and nova flame, nova flame is still and incinerate function and debuff and its is said so in the descriptions, it is considered incinerate, even though its a "special" type. Death Spores is completely unique, poison is never mentioned once in his description. While it may share some similarities such as having little affect on mechanical champs but it is neither considered nor is it called poison.

Incitatus666

I didn't gloss over it, they are literally changing the name of the ability to by pass certain champions. I am not sure why that is the case, I personally would not bring in Mephisto to a science fight, however, given the description of both champs it only makes sense to adhere to the rules they placed. They speak about creating "balance in the battlerealm", I do not see how this adheres to that notion and as more contradictory abilities, such as this appears, they will start to lose more and more of their player base. There have already been a few notable YouTubers who have already left the game given actions similar to this, on top of it all, we are currently dealing with an update that is utterly shameful to the game. Things don't add up, I love this game mate, and I will keep playing until I can't anymore but sometimes, it seriously tries my patience.

Eugene_Virtuoso

@Kabam Miike I would like a clear explanation please. Mephisto is incinerate immune according to his abilities. Human Torche's hits that inflict incinerate don't harm Mephisto while they show the incinerate debuff icon on him. Why should the 'nova form' that shows the exact same incinerate debuff icon do damage to Mephisto?

Lormif

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

You mean how human tourche's own unique nova flame is unique to him and has its own category?

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human touch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

It makes perfect sense.. You seem to have glosed over the fact that Void is affected by human torches incinerate, not his nova flame making him imune, where as Mephisto gets hit with nova flame not incinerate. That he is not being hit by incinerate but a new ability is what is causing Mephisto to fail. Again they only count as incinerate in relation to human torches abilities, not the opponents immunities.

That's just absurd, there is no comparison to death spores and nova flame, nova flame is still and incinerate function and debuff and its is said so in the descriptions, it is considered incinerate, even though its a "special" type. Death Spores is completely unique, poison is never mentioned once in his description. While it may share some similarities such as having little affect on mechanical champs but it is neither considered nor is it called poison.

No, it literally does not. It says it counts as an incinerate for human torches abilities, not that it is an incinerate in general.... Those are different things. In fact, just like death spores, nova flame literally says "instead of incinerate"

Death spores do not have to say poison to be a poison. If you look at pretty much any death spre, game wise or real life it is a poisonous thing.

Incitatus666

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

You mean how human tourche's own unique nova flame is unique to him and has its own category?

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human touch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

It makes perfect sense.. You seem to have glosed over the fact that Void is affected by human torches incinerate, not his nova flame making him imune, where as Mephisto gets hit with nova flame not incinerate. That he is not being hit by incinerate but a new ability is what is causing Mephisto to fail. Again they only count as incinerate in relation to human torches abilities, not the opponents immunities.

That's just absurd, there is no comparison to death spores and nova flame, nova flame is still and incinerate function and debuff and its is said so in the descriptions, it is considered incinerate, even though its a "special" type. Death Spores is completely unique, poison is never mentioned once in his description. While it may share some similarities such as having little affect on mechanical champs but it is neither considered nor is it called poison.

No, it literally does not. It says it counts as an incinerate for human torches abilities, not that it is an incinerate in general.... Those are different things. In fact, just like death spores, nova flame literally says "instead of incinerate"

Death spores do not have to say poison to be a poison. If you look at pretty much any death spre, game wise or real life it is a poisonous thing.

That last bit you just said is using absurd logic, this is a game, and the game has certain rules, it does not matter what real life is or what any other game has, in this game it is NOT considered poison and should NOT be confused as poison.

The fact that they need to write "instead of incinerate" hints to the fact that they KNEW people would be confused otherwise and thus only enforces what we are all saying. Its odd logic and by them adding in that tiny clause allows them to claim what you are saying. I do believe what you are saying is true as to why he gets damaged, I am claiming that it is utterly absurd to do this and opens dangerous doors for the game (dangerous as in they will have total freedom to do what they want regardless of the rules set by them in the beginning)... Rules refers to the in game abilities that the character abide by. @Lormif

Incitatus666

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

Lormif said:

Dexman1349 said:

I understand the class disadvantage point, but I agree with the OP that this is a case of Kabam using technicalities to "lawyer their way out" of champion's abilities.

If a champ is incinerate immune, they should be immune to all forms of fire. This tactic of making them a special non-incinerate fire is just cheap.

So you dont think someone can be immune to one thing but not immune to similar but greater effect?

I think it's a cheap way of circumventing abilities and it opens the door for a whole host of other "similar but greater effects".

Next up is super cold to eliminate Sabretooth's immunity? What about a super-unstoppable that renders CAIW's ability useless? A nano-bleed/poison that bypasses robot immunities?

If a champ is immune to something, IMO they should be immune to all versions of it.

You mean like how robots are still poisonable by omega red's death spores? There are lots of cases where imminites are overcame, you arguing this one is quite strange.

Death spore are NOT poison, they do not count as poison and they do not act like poison, they are their own mechanic and exclusive to omega red or any other member of the omega team that will enter the conent. Much like how Voids debuffs have their own category as well, i.e. not poison or bleed, etc. these are all still debuffs, so any debuff immune champ will be immune, but HT abilities consider his debuffs incinerates, hence, ALL incinerate immune champs should be immune. Side note: robots are affected at a significantly slower rate,m which makes sense, but are not fully immune. This adheres to Omega Reds abilities from the canon, something which I believe Kabam does a great job doing, not deviating too far from the Marvel canon.

You mean how human tourche's own unique nova flame is unique to him and has its own category?

Incitatus666 said:

Lormif said:

richo82 said:

It also states all nova flame passives are considered incinerate debuffs.

It specifically states that they are treated as incinerate debuffs for human torches abilities, so human touch sees them as incinerates, the opponent does not.

This doesn't make any sense bec Void works just fine and I've used him to clear the content already bec he is immune. Mephisto should be as well even tho there is disadvantage. Maybe the attacks are stronger against him but he should still be immune to incinerate. @Kabam Miike

It makes perfect sense.. You seem to have glosed over the fact that Void is affected by human torches incinerate, not his nova flame making him imune, where as Mephisto gets hit with nova flame not incinerate. That he is not being hit by incinerate but a new ability is what is causing Mephisto to fail. Again they only count as incinerate in relation to human torches abilities, not the opponents immunities.

That's just absurd, there is no comparison to death spores and nova flame, nova flame is still and incinerate function and debuff and its is said so in the descriptions, it is considered incinerate, even though its a "special" type. Death Spores is completely unique, poison is never mentioned once in his description. While it may share some similarities such as having little affect on mechanical champs but it is neither considered nor is it called poison.

No, it literally does not. It says it counts as an incinerate for human torches abilities, not that it is an incinerate in general.... Those are different things. In fact, just like death spores, nova flame literally says "instead of incinerate"

Death spores do not have to say poison to be a poison. If you look at pretty much any death spre, game wise or real life it is a poisonous thing.

That last bit you just said makes no sense. This is a game and each game abides by certain rules set by the programmers, they never once mentioned death spores are poison, in order for them to considered poison they need to be specified as such, regardless of what the real life categorization is, or the way this ability is portrayed in any other game.

The sheer fact that they needed to specify "instead of incinerate" hints that they knew it would be confusing otherwise and in fact gives more validity to our claim of them using other means to bypass certain abilities. This is not the same as death spores, otherwise they would specify "instead of poison", hence, they= developers are well aware that most ppl would not believe death spores in the same category as poison. Death spores function similarly to poison, in some ways, but are very very different, noted by the fact that they CAN affect mechanical champions.

All I am saying is that I am in agreement with you as to why Mephisto is being affected. We differ where I believe Kabam has used legal logic to bypass a certain champions abilities by simpliy changing a few words around. Logically, it makes no sense to me, and many others are with me on that. This opens new doors for the company and allows them to do as they please, when they please, regardless of the rules in the game, which have already been established (rules as in, the interactions among champions based on their ability descriptions) @Lormif

Incitatus666

Also his affects say that his nova flames are treated as if they were incinrate debuffs, which is even further evidence that Mephisto should be immune. The only reason why he is being damaged is because of the other ability that states Mystic attacks are all energy. This is all seems very contradictory @Lormif
@Kabam Miike could you please help us in this matter?
Thank you